The James Bond Questions Thread

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  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited June 7 Posts: 593
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I think the problem of TLD is the same problem as with most of the Bond films with dual villains (OP, QoS, TWINE, and to the lesser extent, NTTD).

    Especially this:
    peter wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Koskov is scheming and brutal, he didn't care what happened to Kara. I only wish they had elaborated on that further, and had him betraying and killing Whittaker and the fight at end being between Koskov and Bond.

    Koskov being more dangerous than one'd think would be great. He's a good villain (brilliant actor) but veers dangerously close to comedy by the end.

    Yeah, agreed it really feels like a missed opportunity not to see the over-jovial giddiness masking some Waltz-style deeper menace. I think people are correct that TLD has weak villains, but it's not enough to spoil the movie for me. They're at least functional.

    My great frustration with Koskov and TLD in general. He was not menacing enough, but he could so easily have been. They wasted a great actor.

    Agreed. Koskov was a wet napkin, unfortunately. The protagonists as a duo bring down the excellent TLD by a few points for me, due to no external threat. There was a mystery woven very well (what was Koskov up to? What was his relationship with Brad Whittaker…)…and Dalton-Bond does a fantastic job leading with his instincts, but, yeah, two of the weakest villains in the series.

    I like Whittaker, but he shouldn't be the final battle. JDB, bless him, did a brilliant job and the scene with Pushkin is a series highlight.

    But, I agree, TLD'a villains just don't convey enough menace.

    But really, in all seriously, writing a strong villain is really difficult and hard if they're two because of the tendency to split the scenes and their way of executing their plans, just my observation.

    IMO it's all down to the casting of General Whittaker. Joe Don Baker is only fit to play a sleazy low rent villian, when what this role requires is an actor with more gravitas and intensity, who can convey true megolomania. A Rod Steiger / George C Scott / Gene Hackman type

    Koskov on the other hand is meant to be a cunning, slippery character and Jerone Krabbe does a good job of that

    While Andreas Wisniewski as Necros is one of my all time favourite henchmen

  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 587
    Gerard wrote: »
    Except for Necros, of course.

    More a henchman.

    Blonde and physically imposing. Where did they get that idea...
  • Posts: 15,761
    peter wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Koskov is scheming and brutal, he didn't care what happened to Kara. I only wish they had elaborated on that further, and had him betraying and killing Whittaker and the fight at end being between Koskov and Bond.

    Koskov being more dangerous than one'd think would be great. He's a good villain (brilliant actor) but veers dangerously close to comedy by the end.

    Yeah, agreed it really feels like a missed opportunity not to see the over-jovial giddiness masking some Waltz-style deeper menace. I think people are correct that TLD has weak villains, but it's not enough to spoil the movie for me. They're at least functional.

    My great frustration with Koskov and TLD in general. He was not menacing enough, but he could so easily have been. They wasted a great actor.

    Agreed. Koskov was a wet napkin, unfortunately. The protagonists as a duo bring down the excellent TLD by a few points for me, due to no external threat. There was a mystery woven very well (what was Koskov up to? What was his relationship with Brad Whittaker…)…and Dalton-Bond does a fantastic job leading with his instincts, but, yeah, two of the weakest villains in the series.

    It could have been easily avoided by writing Koskov as affable at the beginning, instead of a buffoon. Like Krabbe played Nichols in The Fugitive in only a few years later.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,240
    Seve wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I think the problem of TLD is the same problem as with most of the Bond films with dual villains (OP, QoS, TWINE, and to the lesser extent, NTTD).

    Especially this:
    peter wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Koskov is scheming and brutal, he didn't care what happened to Kara. I only wish they had elaborated on that further, and had him betraying and killing Whittaker and the fight at end being between Koskov and Bond.

    Koskov being more dangerous than one'd think would be great. He's a good villain (brilliant actor) but veers dangerously close to comedy by the end.

    Yeah, agreed it really feels like a missed opportunity not to see the over-jovial giddiness masking some Waltz-style deeper menace. I think people are correct that TLD has weak villains, but it's not enough to spoil the movie for me. They're at least functional.

    My great frustration with Koskov and TLD in general. He was not menacing enough, but he could so easily have been. They wasted a great actor.

    Agreed. Koskov was a wet napkin, unfortunately. The protagonists as a duo bring down the excellent TLD by a few points for me, due to no external threat. There was a mystery woven very well (what was Koskov up to? What was his relationship with Brad Whittaker…)…and Dalton-Bond does a fantastic job leading with his instincts, but, yeah, two of the weakest villains in the series.

    I like Whittaker, but he shouldn't be the final battle. JDB, bless him, did a brilliant job and the scene with Pushkin is a series highlight.

    But, I agree, TLD'a villains just don't convey enough menace.

    But really, in all seriously, writing a strong villain is really difficult and hard if they're two because of the tendency to split the scenes and their way of executing their plans, just my observation.

    IMO it's all down to the casting of General Whittaker. Joe Don Baker is only fit to play a sleazy low rent villian, when what this role requires is an actor with more gravitas and intensity, who can convey true megolomania. A Rod Steiger / George C Scott / Gene Hackman type

    Yes, this absolutely. Any of those would have been great, Joe Don Baker was brilliant but it needed someone a bit larger. James Coburn often pops into my head, but all of those suggestions work great too.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited June 12 Posts: 9,019
    But the character is supposed to be pathetic, he's not supposed to have gravitas. He's got to where he is by cheating and dealing with the wrong people. I don't have a problem with his portrayal, I just think he should have been double-crossed by Koskov earlier, then Krabbe and Dalton could have been like Scaramanga and Moore dueling it out in the fun house at the end, with Koskov taunting jamed about the 00's he killed from the shadows.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,948
    Gene Hackman would've been a great Brad Whittaker, as he could play a wannabe hero genius type, someone with ambition, someone who was focused on his own agenda, think of his character, Lex Luthor, I think both Lex Luthor and Brad Whittaker have something in common, they're both ambitious that they've calculated their moves in terms of executing their plans.
    Brad Whittaker was for me, meant to be a dangerous Figure, for someone who was a high ranking Military Official, he was meant to be calculating, strategic, and cunning, without showing it (Joe Don Baker tried to make the character too showy, too obvious), he was ambitious and not whimsical.
  • Posts: 15,761
    But the character is supposed to be pathetic, he's not supposed to have gravitas. He's got to where he is by cheating and dealing with the wrong people. I don't have a problem with his portrayal, I just think he should have been double-crossed by Koskov earlier, then Krabbe and Dalton could have been like Scaramanga and Moore dueling it out in the fun house at the end, with Koskov taunting jamed about the 00's he killed from the shadows.

    Whether it was intentional or not, it was a bad idea, because Koskov lacked menace. He didn't have to be Count Dracula, but some degree of restraint and gravitas would have helped. I mean he's a general, for crying out loud! He should have had some gravitas, some aura of authority.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited June 12 Posts: 3,948
    The thing for me in TLD is, it was the film where it didn't know what to do with itself.

    It was trying to be grounded because it got a new Bond and they want to make it distinctive from the previous ones, on the other hand, they wanted to contain the elements of the Moore Era to play it safe because around that time, there's still the 'Roger Moore as Bond Magic' going around (can't blame them, Moore stayed in the Bond role for a very long time, almost a decade, longer than Connery's, 12 years (1973-1985), only Craig have beaten him with 15 years, 2006-2021), they don't want to repeat what happened with OHMSS where the people got alienated because it's so different from the Connery starred Bond films.

    This is one of my observations upon just rewatching TLD (just now), I've realized that Brad Whittaker and Koskov just fits the movie alright but somehow they lacked menace for the reasons that they need to suit the style of new Bond which is serious, but at the same time, they also need to follow the trends and qualities of the Moore Bond villains to avoid alienation from the audience (they need to retain a lighthearted feel and tone).
    The film had no identity at all, 30% are the film dealing with the style of the new Bond, but 60% are the film following the Moore Era footsteps.
    Even Dalton was struggling to deliver the one liners (he often fell flat at some) as those are fitted perfectly for Roger Moore.

    I think had the film settled for what it's aiming to be, I think it would've benefitted both Brad Whittaker and Koskov, Licence To Kill had achieved this, because the film had a clear direction of what it's aiming to be unlike TLD.

    And with also the case of Brad Whittaker, when did EON achieved the 'dangerous and menacing General' villains? Excepting Gogol, I personally don't find any of the bad Generals threatening and menacing: General Orlov (OP) was too whimsical to be taken seriously, Kamal Khan is much more better, the same for General Ourumov (GE) where the character was a bit one dimensional and lacked gravitas (maybe could've been better had they found an alternate actor to play him, Gottfried John didn't make the character convincing and threatening for me, Sean Bean and Famke Janssen overshadowed him in every aspect), and Brad Whittaker is no different.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 587
    mtm wrote: »
    Seve wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I think the problem of TLD is the same problem as with most of the Bond films with dual villains (OP, QoS, TWINE, and to the lesser extent, NTTD).

    Especially this:
    peter wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Koskov is scheming and brutal, he didn't care what happened to Kara. I only wish they had elaborated on that further, and had him betraying and killing Whittaker and the fight at end being between Koskov and Bond.

    Koskov being more dangerous than one'd think would be great. He's a good villain (brilliant actor) but veers dangerously close to comedy by the end.

    Yeah, agreed it really feels like a missed opportunity not to see the over-jovial giddiness masking some Waltz-style deeper menace. I think people are correct that TLD has weak villains, but it's not enough to spoil the movie for me. They're at least functional.

    My great frustration with Koskov and TLD in general. He was not menacing enough, but he could so easily have been. They wasted a great actor.

    Agreed. Koskov was a wet napkin, unfortunately. The protagonists as a duo bring down the excellent TLD by a few points for me, due to no external threat. There was a mystery woven very well (what was Koskov up to? What was his relationship with Brad Whittaker…)…and Dalton-Bond does a fantastic job leading with his instincts, but, yeah, two of the weakest villains in the series.

    I like Whittaker, but he shouldn't be the final battle. JDB, bless him, did a brilliant job and the scene with Pushkin is a series highlight.

    But, I agree, TLD'a villains just don't convey enough menace.

    But really, in all seriously, writing a strong villain is really difficult and hard if they're two because of the tendency to split the scenes and their way of executing their plans, just my observation.

    IMO it's all down to the casting of General Whittaker. Joe Don Baker is only fit to play a sleazy low rent villian, when what this role requires is an actor with more gravitas and intensity, who can convey true megolomania. A Rod Steiger / George C Scott / Gene Hackman type

    Yes, this absolutely. Any of those would have been great, Joe Don Baker was brilliant but it needed someone a bit larger. James Coburn often pops into my head, but all of those suggestions work great too.

    Baker works as Whittaker. He's a doofus. Full of bloviating bluster and snake-oil charm. Reminds me of a certain president....

    Koskov being a snivelling shill fails the character and subtracts his menace, but it does give the awesome Pushkin one last hurrah.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    edited June 12 Posts: 587
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The thing for me in TLD is, it was the film where it didn't know what to do with itself.

    It was trying to be grounded because it got a new Bond and they want to make it distinctive from the previous ones, on the other hand, they wanted to contain the elements of the Moore Era to play it safe because around that time, there's still the 'Roger Moore as Bond Magic' going around (can't blame them, Moore stayed in the Bond role for a very long time, almost a decade, longer than Connery's, 12 years (1973-1985), only Craig have beaten him with 15 years, 2006-2021), they don't want to repeat what happened with OHMSS where the people got alienated because it's so different from the Connery starred Bond films.

    This is one of my observations upon just rewatching TLD (just now), I've realized that Brad Whittaker and Koskov just fits the movie alright but somehow they lacked menace for the reasons that they need to suit the style of new Bond which is serious, but at the same time, they also need to follow the trends and qualities of the Moore Bond villains to avoid alienation from the audience (they need to retain a lighthearted feel and tone).
    The film had no identity at all, 30% are the film dealing with the style of the new Bond, but 60% are the film following the Moore Era footsteps.
    Even Dalton was struggling to deliver the one liners (he often fell flat at some) as those are fitted perfectly for Roger Moore.

    I think had the film settled for what it's aiming to be, I think it would've benefitted both Brad Whittaker and Koskov, Licence To Kill had achieved this, because the film had a clear direction of what it's aiming to be unlike TLD.

    And with also the case of Brad Whittaker, when did EON achieved the 'dangerous and menacing General' villains? Excepting Gogol, I personally don't find any of the bad Generals threatening and menacing: General Orlov (OP) was too whimsical to be taken seriously, Kamal Khan is much more better, the same for General Ourumov (GE) where the character was a bit one dimensional and lacked gravitas (maybe could've been better had they found an alternate actor to play him, Gottfried John didn't make the character convincing and threatening for me, Sean Bean and Famke Janssen overshadowed him in every aspect), and Brad Whittaker is no different.

    This is more to do with the audience than the producers. They've been served a decade of Roger Moore. Having Dalton go full on Dalton in TLD probably struck them as too early.

    It is fun, though and it's something in its corner. All Brosnan bar Goldeneye and all of Craig prioritise seriousness and it fails. LTK was also tremendous fun despite its darker tone. Think Goldeneye is the last to get the balance right.

    Also, give GE a rewatch just for John. He's excellent, and displays a great deal of range. From his impetuous execution of a subordinate to the lurid attraction he clearly has to Ontatopp's Severnaya bloodlust.

    His denouement probably lets him down but John did a brilliant job.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited June 12 Posts: 3,948
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The thing for me in TLD is, it was the film where it didn't know what to do with itself.

    It was trying to be grounded because it got a new Bond and they want to make it distinctive from the previous ones, on the other hand, they wanted to contain the elements of the Moore Era to play it safe because around that time, there's still the 'Roger Moore as Bond Magic' going around (can't blame them, Moore stayed in the Bond role for a very long time, almost a decade, longer than Connery's, 12 years (1973-1985), only Craig have beaten him with 15 years, 2006-2021), they don't want to repeat what happened with OHMSS where the people got alienated because it's so different from the Connery starred Bond films.

    This is one of my observations upon just rewatching TLD (just now), I've realized that Brad Whittaker and Koskov just fits the movie alright but somehow they lacked menace for the reasons that they need to suit the style of new Bond which is serious, but at the same time, they also need to follow the trends and qualities of the Moore Bond villains to avoid alienation from the audience (they need to retain a lighthearted feel and tone).
    The film had no identity at all, 30% are the film dealing with the style of the new Bond, but 60% are the film following the Moore Era footsteps.
    Even Dalton was struggling to deliver the one liners (he often fell flat at some) as those are fitted perfectly for Roger Moore.

    I think had the film settled for what it's aiming to be, I think it would've benefitted both Brad Whittaker and Koskov, Licence To Kill had achieved this, because the film had a clear direction of what it's aiming to be unlike TLD.

    And with also the case of Brad Whittaker, when did EON achieved the 'dangerous and menacing General' villains? Excepting Gogol, I personally don't find any of the bad Generals threatening and menacing: General Orlov (OP) was too whimsical to be taken seriously, Kamal Khan is much more better, the same for General Ourumov (GE) where the character was a bit one dimensional and lacked gravitas (maybe could've been better had they found an alternate actor to play him, Gottfried John didn't make the character convincing and threatening for me, Sean Bean and Famke Janssen overshadowed him in every aspect), and Brad Whittaker is no different.

    This is more to do with the audience than the producers. They've been served a decade of Roger Moore. Having Dalton go full on Dalton in TLD probably struck them as too early.

    I agree, TLD was a playing it safe type of film to introduce the new Bond by not having to alienate the audiences, I think lesson was learned after what happened to OHMSS, as this was just the second time that another actor would replace another actor who have played the character for a long time, although it affected some characters though, like Brad Whittaker and Koskov, because they have to play two angles: to match the style of the New Bond and to keep in line with the qualities of the Moore Era Bond villains.
    Even if we recast Brad Whittaker, the problem was in the writing of the character, the same for Koskov, just realized it from my latest rewatch of TLD, Joe Don Baker seemed alright within the film, the problem was how the character was supposed to be.
    It is fun, though and it's something in its corner. All Brosnan bar Goldeneye and all of Craig prioritise seriousness and it fails. LTK was also tremendous fun despite its darker tone. Think Goldeneye is the last to get the balance right.

    I think SPECTRE balanced the humor and seriousness well, Craig/Bond comes off as lighthearted with his dialogues/lines, and so his interactions and fight scenes with the villains: Bond doing a farewell hand signal towards Hinx and his men in Austria, the train fight scene, and Bond parachuting after escaping the car or the scene with the little Fiat, it's one of the things why I'm fond of SPECTRE a bit.
    I think SPECTRE featured my favorite Craig's portrayal of Bond, just liked him in it, he came full circle with the role that he have given it many angles aside from seriousness and he sold it well, the film may have many flaws, but Craig's performance was really great, even prefer it to NTTD.
    Also, give GE a rewatch just for John. He's excellent, and displays a great deal of range. From his impetuous execution of a subordinate to the lurid attraction he clearly has to Ontatopp's Severnaya bloodlust.

    His denouement probably lets him down but John did a brilliant job.

    And yes, I may give GE a rewatch for that, it's been a while since I've seen GE, so maybe my perception of John would change after a rewatch, thanks. 😊
  • Posts: 5,395
    Oh I think Gottfried John is great in GE. Actually I think he elevates the character and brings a bit more to him. Love how drunk and disheveled he looks throughout his last scenes in Russia - really comes off as a man who’s lost control of things and is acting desperately. It plays well into his reaction when told that Travelyan’s a Cossack. You almost feel sorry for him as he comes off as a man - albeit a greedy/villainous one - who’s gotten in too deep with something he shouldn’t have.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,579
    A question concerning a few potential forum threads that I did not manage to find. I want to avoid opening up a duplicate so here it goes: we have a "Connery-era rankings" and a "Moore-era rankings" thread, do we have these threads also for the other two long-serving Bonds (and maybe we can also open one that combines Tim-Laz(-Niv))?
  • edited June 12 Posts: 12,737
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    A question concerning a few potential forum threads that I did not manage to find. I want to avoid opening up a duplicate so here it goes: we have a "Connery-era rankings" and a "Moore-era rankings" thread, do we have these threads also for the other two long-serving Bonds (and maybe we can also open one that combines Tim-Laz(-Niv))?

    Yes; I was waiting to bump them myself until I finished all the films in my ongoing Bondathon. Check the OP username on the Moore / Connery threads and then their discussions if you’d like to get a head start.

    EDIT: Here are the direct links:

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/3393/the-pierce-brosnan-era-rankings/p1

    https://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/8823/the-daniel-craig-era-rankings/p1

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/8455/the-timothy-dalton-era-rankings#latest
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,579
    Thanks @FoxRox !
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,240
    Is the idea that these rankings are put together to give an idea of the best loved of each?
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited June 13 Posts: 3,948
    Does anyone have an idea about that other alternate 'Casino Royale' poster at one side? Thank you for those who will answer 😊

    Where to see the full image of it, that poster looked interesting to me.

    Maybe they could use that poster again for Bond 26, I'm hoping and wishing 😁.

    54586042569_ddeefd3312_b.jpg

    To emphasize it more:

    54586043489_8f22bf3450_b.jpg
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,972
    We've been discussing that in the art threads if you can find them.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,948
    LucknFate wrote: »
    We've been discussing that in the art threads if you can find them.

    Thanks @LucknFate been too busy this year so I'm rarely active in this forum 😅, at least I'm contributing now again, thanks, I will check it out.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 9,019
    Was "Charlie" a common name to call a worker in the 70's, or did Roger Moore ask for his drivers name? "Easy Charlie, let's get there in one piece."
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,430
    Was "Charlie" a common name to call a worker in the 70's, or did Roger Moore ask for his drivers name? "Easy Charlie, let's get there in one piece."

    Isn’t the drivers name…Charlie?
    It’s never established that his name isn’t Charlie. As far as I know.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited June 15 Posts: 9,019
    Benny wrote: »
    Was "Charlie" a common name to call a worker in the 70's, or did Roger Moore ask for his drivers name? "Easy Charlie, let's get there in one piece."

    Isn’t the drivers name…Charlie?
    It’s never established that his name isn’t Charlie. As far as I know.

    But is it ever established that his name IS Charlie?

    I dunno, but ever since I was 5 or 6 I always thought it was strange that Bond is calling this random guy by "Charlie" when we hardly ever see him use names. It's kinda been something that's been on my mind for years, so I just wondered if it was a common, colloquial name for a worker/driver around that time.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,172
    JB wiki lists Charlie's alias as 'Toto'. Because Bond's a long way from home now.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 587
    Was "Charlie" a common name to call a worker in the 70's, or did Roger Moore ask for his drivers name? "Easy Charlie, let's get there in one piece."

    Aye, Rog was just being a dick winding him up
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 9,019
    Was "Charlie" a common name to call a worker in the 70's, or did Roger Moore ask for his drivers name? "Easy Charlie, let's get there in one piece."

    Aye, Rog was just being a dick winding him up

    If that's the answer that's hilarious and a very underrated moment.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,768
    I always just assumed that his name was Charlie. It works for me. Sometimes it's best not to overthink things.
  • I assumed it was some reference of some sort! Easy, Charlie, seems like it could of come from a film of the time, but I can't find anything to back up that notion
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,172
    Keep in mind Bond calls him 'Charlie' twice. Once when he checks him for being a lead foot, then again when he keels over.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 9,019
    I assumed it was some reference of some sort! Easy, Charlie, seems like it could of come from a film of the time, but I can't find anything to back up that notion

    Thank god I'm not the only one, I always thought it was a American colloquialism because Bond was in New York.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,887
    I was thinking of Tiffany Case telling the gas station attendant to pump gas and I believe she calls someone Curly?

    I think if it was a general shout out it would have been "Buddy" at least here in North America. As a service provider I have been called Buddy and Chief. I am not a fan of the use of Chief. Almost detest it as much as Bond hates being called "Old Man".
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