Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 264
    Casting fatigue, and now poll déjà vu.
  • Posts: 7,030
    Univex wrote: »
    I think we need a poll about wanting a young (20s/early 30s) or a more mature Bond (late30s/40s). But not in the sense of what one thinks it’s economically viable or marketable for the series, just what you’d prefer. It would be interesting, then, to give it some visibility, as to, maybe, let Amazon know what the fanbase feels.

    I know, I know, some will say “they owe us nothing”, “fanservicing is always bad”, blah blah, but that’s not the point, it’s just statistical analysis.

    Shall we? Mods? :)
    The issue is that your ‘late 30s/40s’ Bond will not stay that age. If they are any good the studio will want to keep them longer, and we’ll end up with a Bond in his 50s by the fourth or fifth film (possibly earlier, depending on how long it takes to film the new movies). Early-to-mid 30s is the best option, giving us an actor who grows into the role, rather than an actor who grows out of it.

    An argument can be made on these very instantaneous and feeble times, in which people thrive on change and get tired of things that overstay their welcome. Not that I personally advocate for any of this, but I believe that a good actor that spans a decade is better than someone who stays in the role for two decades with years and years between films.

    But like I said, the point of the poll would be to probe our wants, not the reasoning behind the eventual solution by the new studios.
  • Posts: 7,030
    dewiparry wrote: »
    Casting fatigue, and now poll déjà vu.

    Well, not exactly, the last poll was about which actor - from a list - would we prefer.

    And in all honesty, the poll actually helped calm some of the nerves and arguments in the forums.

    I just thought it could be informative. But it’s just a suggestion.
  • Posts: 264
    Univex wrote: »
    dewiparry wrote: »
    Casting fatigue, and now poll déjà vu.

    Well, not exactly, the last poll was about which actor - from a list - would we prefer.

    And in all honesty, the poll actually helped calm some of the nerves and arguments in the forums.

    I just thought it could be informative. But it’s just a suggestion.

    It could be informative, carry on, mate! It's a thoughtful debate and insightful. I'm just feeling the loop, and obviously I don't see age brackets.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited July 10 Posts: 3,359
    BB said that the actor playing the next Bond would need to make a 'decade-long commitment' to the role. Realistically, that means that age will have to be a casting consideration unless, as sandbagger1 said, the new guy's third film's going to be another one with Bond too old/Bond on the verge of retirement themes. Unless Amazon are going to run much faster production schedules than EON, obvs.
  • Posts: 472
    Chalamet will WIN! They are going to fire Villeneuve and get James Gunn instead. Check this post in a couple of years.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,547
    I’m pretty certain that record is broken @Stamper
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 638
    Stamper wrote: »
    Chalamet will WIN! They are going to fire Villeneuve and get James Gunn instead. Check this post in a couple of years.
    Chalamet is good but not for Bond.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 22 Posts: 24,943
    MSL49 wrote: »
    Stamper wrote: »
    Chalamet will WIN! They are going to fire Villeneuve and get James Gunn instead. Check this post in a couple of years.
    Chalamet is good but not for Bond.

    @MSL49
    You already received a polite request to avoid these single-sentence posts that rarely add anything to a conversation, yet you refuse to change your ways. Understand that you're bordering on 'spam', for which this forum has little patience.
  • Posts: 1,771
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MSL49 wrote: »
    Stamper wrote: »
    Chalamet will WIN! They are going to fire Villeneuve and get James Gunn instead. Check this post in a couple of years.
    Chalamet is good but not for Bond.

    @MSL49
    You already received a polite request to avoid these single-sentence posts that rarely add anything to a conversation, yet you refuse to change your ways. Understand that you're bordering on 'spam', for which this forum has little patience.

    Actually, with this post, at least - and I know not of the others - it makes a definitive, clear statement and gets to the point quickly and directly.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 25 Posts: 19,180
    A comedy writer Joel Morris, who does lots of sort of cultural analysis, put his case for why a younger Bond is a bad idea this morning. What do you reckon?

    https://bsky.app/profile/gralefrit.bsky.social/post/3lzncrxwj4s2d
    The appeal of Bond is that he’s cool and strange. The fascination is “how d’you learn to do the things you do?” Y’know like in the Carly Simon song.

    Answering that, with an origin tale, is the wrong story. Like most prequels, it’s data not story. He’s interesting because we don’t know, we guess.

    He’s this scarred warhorse. He’s been here before. He’s done this stuff again and again. We wouldn’t know how to do it, but it’s his job. Like watching someone who really knows how to fix a car. Dad appeal. The man thing. Capability.

    I thought it when I saw the trailer for the game. Unless you’re going to be allowed to play him being really shit at stuff, there’s no magic, no fantasy, in being allowed to be crap at shooting bad guys. And if you’re not, where did you learn it?

    An older Bond hints at wonderful untold stories, where he learned all his tricks. A young Bond just hints that there’s another origin film or game to come where he’s annoyingly good at stuff when he’s in the cub scouts.

    Purvis and Wade found this out when they did their reboot with Casino Royale. Within two movies, Bond was an old warhorse again, being put out to pasture, his “specific set of skills” unexplained but a burden to his employers.

    He’s a superhero whose superpower is that adventure - something that would be unusual to the audience - is his day job. He’s even got the paperwork and filing to prove it. A licence. To kill. That it’s everyday. It’s not new to him.

    I think of all the Bonds, it was Dalton and Brosnan who got this. The irritated flinch when a bullet hits cover nearby. “This again?”

    It’s why the central drive is his inability to separate business and pleasure. He’s done the exciting adventure stuff so many times, he’s looking for new fun: gadgets, women etc.

    He represents the iconic 60s bored international salesman who’s looking forward to getting off with his secretary.

    Further discussion of it on the link above. I dunno, I'm not fully convinced, but I think he has an interesting point. I guess Bond does have a whiff of mystery about him.
  • edited September 25 Posts: 5,997
    It's maybe not conveyed in the best way, but I don't disagree. He has a point about this idea that Bond has a lot of untold stories behind him. Even if they run with a Bond in his late 20s/early 30s (and even then, the actor may well be more into their mid 30s in practice, which I can see happening) I think they'll establish that he's a competent operative who's been around a bit/seen some stuff.

    Even First Light from what I can see seems less about a guy in his mid 20s learning all this stuff, but a very skilled, extraordinary, albeit young agent making the first step in his career as a 00.

    It's sort of what makes Bond unique in many ways. He doesn't actually have a definitive origin story, and we get lots of hints/threads of a life (ie. his previous relationships, the occasional reference to him doing courses at specific universities, and even in the Craig era these brief little snapshots of his childhood, which you also get in Fleming).

    Personally, I hope they don't feel the need to go in-depth about a lot of this stuff. Part of Bond's appeal is his current job and the unusual, dangerous nature around it along with his attitude towards it. I really couldn't care less about the ins and outs of his naval past or what he was doing from 18-22 years old, and I don't find it the most interesting aspect of the character (unless it's relevant to a story beat I guess, and even then I'm not sure a full film about a pre-007 Bond would work).
  • Posts: 2,403
    I don't think a young Bond means a clumsy Bond.

    I'm sure he can continue to be an alpha male even in his younger years.
  • edited September 25 Posts: 5,997
    I don't think a young Bond means a clumsy Bond.

    I'm sure he can continue to be an alpha male even in his younger years.

    I think if anything it's tricky finding the right actor that fits that age and is able to convey all of that. I'm not sure even a 25-28 year old Brosnan, Dalton, or Moore would have been able to convincingly play the part as a younger version. That idea of gravitas EON used to talk about. Again, it's why in practice I can imagine we'll get a late 20s/early 30s Bond played by an actor around 33.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,943
    mtm wrote: »
    A comedy writer Joel Morris, who does lots of sort of cultural analysis, put his case for why a younger Bond is a bad idea this morning. What do you reckon?

    https://bsky.app/profile/gralefrit.bsky.social/post/3lzncrxwj4s2d
    The appeal of Bond is that he’s cool and strange. The fascination is “how d’you learn to do the things you do?” Y’know like in the Carly Simon song.

    Answering that, with an origin tale, is the wrong story. Like most prequels, it’s data not story. He’s interesting because we don’t know, we guess.

    He’s this scarred warhorse. He’s been here before. He’s done this stuff again and again. We wouldn’t know how to do it, but it’s his job. Like watching someone who really knows how to fix a car. Dad appeal. The man thing. Capability.

    I thought it when I saw the trailer for the game. Unless you’re going to be allowed to play him being really shit at stuff, there’s no magic, no fantasy, in being allowed to be crap at shooting bad guys. And if you’re not, where did you learn it?

    An older Bond hints at wonderful untold stories, where he learned all his tricks. A young Bond just hints that there’s another origin film or game to come where he’s annoyingly good at stuff when he’s in the cub scouts.

    Purvis and Wade found this out when they did their reboot with Casino Royale. Within two movies, Bond was an old warhorse again, being put out to pasture, his “specific set of skills” unexplained but a burden to his employers.

    He’s a superhero whose superpower is that adventure - something that would be unusual to the audience - is his day job. He’s even got the paperwork and filing to prove it. A licence. To kill. That it’s everyday. It’s not new to him.

    I think of all the Bonds, it was Dalton and Brosnan who got this. The irritated flinch when a bullet hits cover nearby. “This again?”

    It’s why the central drive is his inability to separate business and pleasure. He’s done the exciting adventure stuff so many times, he’s looking for new fun: gadgets, women etc.

    He represents the iconic 60s bored international salesman who’s looking forward to getting off with his secretary.

    Further discussion of it on the link above. I dunno, I'm not fully convinced, but I think he has an interesting point. I guess Bond does have a whiff of mystery about him.

    The author's thoughts mimic my own. Unless you do it very well, an origin tale is always risky. CR works for me because it does, not because it explores the beginnings of its main character--which it barely does anyway. A deep dive into Bond's origins holds the risk of establishing details ("data") that may be considered canon henceforth or retroactively. I, too, prefer Bond's life to bathe in mystery, to exist only in the now, which is why I couldn't care less about young Bond books and whatnot.

    This is not my usual attitude, by the way. Star Wars, Dune, Batman, ... the more EU stuff you feed me, the more I'll happily take it in (if I can find the time). But Bond is different for me.
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 638
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don't think a young Bond means a clumsy Bond.

    I'm sure he can continue to be an alpha male even in his younger years.

    I think if anything it's tricky finding the right actor that fits that age and is able to convey all of that. I'm not sure even a 25-28 year old Brosnan, Dalton, or Moore would have been able to convincingly play the part as a younger version. That idea of gravitas EON used to talk about. Again, it's why in practice I can imagine we'll get a late 20s/early 30s Bond played by an actor around 33.

    Cavill was 22 made it in to the final two only lose to Craig.
  • Posts: 5,997
    MSL49 wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don't think a young Bond means a clumsy Bond.

    I'm sure he can continue to be an alpha male even in his younger years.

    I think if anything it's tricky finding the right actor that fits that age and is able to convey all of that. I'm not sure even a 25-28 year old Brosnan, Dalton, or Moore would have been able to convincingly play the part as a younger version. That idea of gravitas EON used to talk about. Again, it's why in practice I can imagine we'll get a late 20s/early 30s Bond played by an actor around 33.

    Cavill was 22 made it in to the final two only lose to Craig.

    True, but EON were pretty open about younger actors not usually having enough gravitas. If the latest rumours are true they’ll go a bit older with a late 20s/early 30s Bond.
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 638
    007HallY wrote: »
    MSL49 wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don't think a young Bond means a clumsy Bond.

    I'm sure he can continue to be an alpha male even in his younger years.

    I think if anything it's tricky finding the right actor that fits that age and is able to convey all of that. I'm not sure even a 25-28 year old Brosnan, Dalton, or Moore would have been able to convincingly play the part as a younger version. That idea of gravitas EON used to talk about. Again, it's why in practice I can imagine we'll get a late 20s/early 30s Bond played by an actor around 33.

    Cavill was 22 made it in to the final two only lose to Craig.

    True, but EON were pretty open about younger actors not usually having enough gravitas. If the latest rumours are true they’ll go a bit older with a late 20s/early 30s Bond.

    His audition must have been very good, youngest candidate almost got the role.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,180
    007HallY wrote: »
    It's maybe not conveyed in the best way, but I don't disagree. He has a point about this idea that Bond has a lot of untold stories behind him. Even if they run with a Bond in his late 20s/early 30s (and even then, the actor may well be more into their mid 30s in practice, which I can see happening) I think they'll establish that he's a competent operative who's been around a bit/seen some stuff.

    Even First Light from what I can see seems less about a guy in his mid 20s learning all this stuff, but a very skilled, extraordinary, albeit young agent making the first step in his career as a 00.

    It's sort of what makes Bond unique in many ways. He doesn't actually have a definitive origin story, and we get lots of hints/threads of a life (ie. his previous relationships, the occasional reference to him doing courses at specific universities, and even in the Craig era these brief little snapshots of his childhood, which you also get in Fleming).

    Personally, I hope they don't feel the need to go in-depth about a lot of this stuff. Part of Bond's appeal is his current job and the unusual, dangerous nature around it along with his attitude towards it. I really couldn't care less about the ins and outs of his naval past or what he was doing from 18-22 years old, and I don't find it the most interesting aspect of the character (unless it's relevant to a story beat I guess, and even then I'm not sure a full film about a pre-007 Bond would work).

    Yeah I'm not sure I'd be too interested in any extended Navy section; he's got to be 007 for a decent bit of the film.
    I know what you mean about too much detail about his past too- I liked Forever And A Day a lot, but one thing I wasn't keen on was it added in silly details like why he liked martinis and gold-ringed cigarettes- don't need that! :D
    Even in First Light it looks like he's 'got a past', something about a mission in Iceland; so I think Bond always needs something like that. A hint that he's seen a lot. I don't mind the idea of a younger Bond but he can never be someone who's lead a normal life up until this point.
  • Posts: 2,232
    I'm all for in medias res. Let's begin as the series began in 1962. Bond is relatively young and lethally skilled. I don't want to know about his childhood, his psyche, or his liver.
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 638
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I'm all for in medias res. Let's begin as the series began in 1962. Bond is relatively young and lethally skilled. I don't want to know about his childhood, his psyche, or his liver.

    Startingpoint like that would be ideal and i would say needed.
  • Posts: 5,997
    We’ll see at some point how true the Deadline article is I suppose. What makes me skeptical of it is the fact that the idea of a Bond prequel involving his navy days is such an obvious route it’s almost fan fiction at this point (similar to a Bond film set in the 60s). In practice it never quite ends up as expected, and you really have to give the audience ‘Bond’ as they know him to some degree. To clarify I suspect there’s some truth to it, but I don’t think it’ll be as straightforward as we might think.

    Again, I like the idea of a PTS involving a younger Bond in his navy/operative days perhaps, with some crucial detail in the story becoming relevant. Then we flash forward to a Bond who’s recently become 007 or whatever.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 26 Posts: 19,180
    I think the 'scoops' in the article might extend as far as 'Villeneuve will be casting the film once he's done with Dune' and the rest is just speculation. Informed speculation perhaps, but still speculation.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,359
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Unless you do it very well, an origin tale is always risky. CR works for me because it does, not because it explores the beginnings of its main character--which it barely does anyway... I, too, prefer Bond's life to bathe in mystery, to exist only in the now
    Yes, exactly this. If we find things out as it serves a particular plot, then fine, but laying out a set-in-stone linear origin as if Bond's a superhero? Nah.
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