Which actor would make a good Bond villain?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 30 Posts: 18,942
    007HallY wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I generally prefer when they go for an actor who can conpletely blend in the role, which tends to work better imo with unknown veterans. My ideal villain casting from the Craig era was Mads Mikkelsen: pretty much unknown when cast, at least outside Denmark, long experience, mature looking enough. But that's what I'd like to see. Anyway, if I had to bet, my money would be on Murphy. For the record, if he does get cast, I'd call it first.

    Oh, if there's a Mads Mikelsen type who is lesser known outside their country, but has a distinctive screen presence, charisma, and a unique take on the villain, I'd say go for them. As with Mikelsen they may well become a break out actor in the future anyway.

    But I think it's always worth saying lesser known character actors who 'blend into the role' don't always give us the best villains necessarily. Curt Jurgens, Mathieu Amalric, Julian Glover etc. I think all their villains lack the personality that we could have gotten from perhaps more dynamic actors. In fact, I'd argue if TSWLM is crying out for anything, it's a more distinctive, bigger name actor as the villain. It'd just suit the scale of the film. Not to say lesser knows are always chameleonic character actors who might give us a flat baddie (it depends). And of course an Oscar winning actor could give us an underwhelming performance too.

    Yeah Spy is missing a good villain, although I guess Jaws actually manages to make up for him.
    It's hard to tell how it's going to go: lots of people say they'd cast someone else as Blofeld in Spectre, but I think in 2014 or so any one of us would have leapt at Christolph Waltz playing him after Inglourious Basterds, Django etc. - he's incredible in those other films. (I still don't think he's as bad as Blofeld as lots of folks say, but regardless).
    Likewise Jonathan Pryce, someone I was really excited for and yet he didn't quite meet what I was hoping for; even so i think he's no disaster.
    007HallY wrote: »

    It's why I think Greene in QOS is a missed opportunity. He's such a nasty character who gets inside people's heads, and yet his final confrontation with Bond is a fight. It doesn't quite work because we know Bond will win. Would have been cool to see Greene manage to trip Bond up a bit by taunting him and then wounding him during the fight.

    I kind of don't mind what they were going for with that: Greene is like a cornered animal at that point and just goes goblin mode; Bond can't really predict what he's going to do and he's just liable to hurt himself as Bond (which of course he does do) and that makes him dangerous, especially with an axe. It's quite an interesting moment, although it's no big showdown as you say. I still rather like Amalric in that film, he gives good creepy when he's afforded the chance. But he doesn't get to look Bond in the eye much, which Mikkelsen got to do loads of, and I think that helps a baddie a lot.
    I often think Amalric would have made a good Le Chiffre too.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What Greene needed was a big, muscular bodyguard, a brute devoted to his master. His Luca Brasi. Like say Robert Maillet (I remember him from that rubbish Holmes movie). Bond wants to get to Greene, he has to go through the bodyguard first. Then you have a completely different climax.

    Yeah, Forster was trying to subvert the norm with Elvis, but it's a joke which crashes to the ground every time. There may well have been a writers strike on, but shooting a comedy character and it coming out as baffling rather than funny is just bad direction, pure and simple. Maybe some of the worst direction in the whole series in fact; John Glen might be bland but I struggle to think of many other situations where you're not actually sure of what the film is trying to say to you.
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 522
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Pascal was a good baddie in Kingsman, but I don’t really imagine them going for him.

    He's overexposed now. Cast in too many projects. I dream of a week without Pedro Pascal.
    He is in Fantastic Four too.
  • Posts: 16,067
    MSL49 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Pascal was a good baddie in Kingsman, but I don’t really imagine them going for him.

    He's overexposed now. Cast in too many projects. I dream of a week without Pedro Pascal.
    He is in Fantastic Four too.

    I rest my case.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,699
    mtm wrote: »
    Pascal was a good baddie in Kingsman, but I don’t really imagine them going for him.
    And in Equalizer 2.

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  • Posts: 378
    I’m not sure about female villain. I would find the sight of Bond beating up a woman distasteful.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,092
    Troy wrote: »
    I’m not sure about female villain. I would find the sight of Bond beating up a woman distasteful.

    Grow up. They should totally establish an evil version of Ana De Armas, and have her kick Bond's ass. That would be awesome.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,942
    Bond doesn't come to blows with all of the main villains; I think he's only had one punch up with Blofeld for example, despite meeting him in five or so films.
  • Posts: 16,067
    mtm wrote: »
    Bond doesn't come to blows with all of the main villains; I think he's only had one punch up with Blofeld for example, despite meeting him in five or so films.

    To be fair, they usually try to avoid direct confrontations with a villainess. Rosa Klebb is killed by Tania, he does not shoot Fiona Volpe, I think he only ever kills Elektra directly. I cannot remember how Irma Bunt dies.
  • Posts: 736
    Troy wrote: »
    I’m not sure about female villain. I would find the sight of Bond beating up a woman distasteful.
    That's what henchmen are for.
  • Posts: 5,846
    I don’t think they should avoid Bond and a female villain getting into a fight. You have the Onnatop fights in GE and Bond even knocks her out during another scene. So long as she’s a convincing threat to Bond. Every main Bond villain deserves a unique death too.
  • Posts: 16,067
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don’t think they should avoid Bond and a female villain getting into a fight. You have the Onnatop fights in GE and Bond even knocks her out during another scene. So long as she’s a convincing threat to Bond. Every main Bond villain deserves a unique death too.

    Even for Onatop though, Bond kills her indirectly, shooting the pilot. It's quite telling that they tend to avoid direct physical confrontation between Bond and a female villain.
  • Posts: 5,846
    Ludovico wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don’t think they should avoid Bond and a female villain getting into a fight. You have the Onnatop fights in GE and Bond even knocks her out during another scene. So long as she’s a convincing threat to Bond. Every main Bond villain deserves a unique death too.

    Even for Onatop though, Bond kills her indirectly, shooting the pilot. It's quite telling that they tend to avoid direct physical confrontation between Bond and a female villain.

    I suppose you could say that about a lot of the male villains too (that Bond doesn’t directly kill them by shooting them himself etc.) I don’t think it’s as much that they avoid it, it’s just that there have been comparatively few female villains. The fights with Onnatop are pretty brutal, and Elektra’s death is probably Bond’s most direct kill.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 31 Posts: 18,942
    He also didn’t really have fights with Stromberg, Drax, Kristatos, Kamal Khan, Le Chiffre, Koskov, Goldfinger etc etc.
    I don’t think it’s limited to female villains. As Frank said above, that’s what henchmen are for.
  • edited August 31 Posts: 5,846
    I think it’s that stereotypically female villains are more seductresses/femme fatales rather than brutish fighters. That’s a whole other bias/line of reasoning I suppose. It’s why Onnatop is quite a unique villain. You wouldn’t really have Bond get into a fist fight with, say, a Stromberg as they’re not physically matched. I think that’s what’s going on.

    I’d say just give a female villain the appropriate death for the character.
  • Posts: 16,067
    mtm wrote: »
    He also didn’t really have fights with Stromberg, Drax, Kristatos, Kamal Khan, Le Chiffre, Koskov, Goldfinger etc etc.
    I don’t think it’s limited to female villains. As Frank said above, that’s what henchmen are for.

    He killed Stromberg by gunshot. And he fought Goldfinger physically albeit very briefly and in an unusual environment. But yes, for main villains he rarely kills them directly. They often have a sort of Disney's death.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 31 Posts: 18,942
    Yeah he might occasionally shoot them, but a full-on physical confrontation with the main villain is not the norm, because usually they’re not a match for Bond. Goldfinger wasn’t exactly going to win that one. Gary Oldman was suggested above: he wouldn’t realistically win in a fight against a Bond in his 30s either but it’s not a reason not to cast him.
    Also I think recently we’ve seen more female characters who can believably beat guys up: I watched Thunderbolts the other night and I buy that Florence Pugh is winning those fights, Rebecca Ferguson in MI, Ana De Amas in NTTD as mentioned above; if Bond had to have a brutal fight with a female henchman and kill her I don’t see any reason why it couldn’t happen.

    Sorry if anyone thinks I’m posting a lot: I’m stuck home with covid and not much to do.
  • Posts: 16,067
    Sorry about you getting Covid @mtm .

    Some women can look like capable fighters, but I think by and large, pitted against a male adversary they come off as the underdog. Personally, I never thought Jinx came off as very convincing. Or Miranda Frost, for that matter. Way Lin was a different matter entirely, for obvious reasons. And, for all the flaws of AVTAK, I think May Day came off as very dangerous. She looked strong and lethal.

    Anyway trying to get back on topic, IF they want to have a female as the main antagonist, I'd say Cate Blanchett (and I'm not the only one who suggested her). She got robbed of her Oscar (again) with Tar, I could easily see her playing a similar character, but adapted to Bond. Make her a lesbian sexual predator like Rosa Klebb.

    As for a bit of a left field suggestion, Israeli actor Lior Ashlenazi. Right age now, I've seen him in a few things and he's solid, another unknown veteran. Maybe a tad too handsome.
  • Posts: 378
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    I’m not sure about female villain. I would find the sight of Bond beating up a woman distasteful.

    Grow up. They should totally establish an evil version of Ana De Armas, and have her kick Bond's ass. That would be awesome.

    You need to grow up. There is zero chance of someone like Ana De Armas could win a fight against a 30something Bond. To pretend otherwise is fantasy, and ridiculous.
  • Posts: 378
    Ludovico wrote: »

    As for a bit of a left field suggestion, Israeli actor Lior Ashlenazi. Right age now, I've seen him in a few things and he's solid, another unknown veteran. Maybe a tad too handsome.

    In today’s climate, not sure an Israeli villain would be wise.
  • Posts: 16,067
    Troy wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »

    As for a bit of a left field suggestion, Israeli actor Lior Ashlenazi. Right age now, I've seen him in a few things and he's solid, another unknown veteran. Maybe a tad too handsome.

    In today’s climate, not sure an Israeli villain would be wise.

    Israeli actor, not necessarily villain. Don't know if he can do other accents, but that's a hypothesis anyway.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited August 31 Posts: 2,092
    Troy wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    I’m not sure about female villain. I would find the sight of Bond beating up a woman distasteful.

    Grow up. They should totally establish an evil version of Ana De Armas, and have her kick Bond's ass. That would be awesome.

    You need to grow up. There is zero chance of someone like Ana De Armas could win a fight against a 30something Bond. To pretend otherwise is fantasy, and ridiculous.

    If you can't imagine such a woman, you're ignorant. Please stay out of the writer's room! Anyone who says hard no to any idea, particularly involving a woman, is a red flag and antiquated.
  • Posts: 378
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    I’m not sure about female villain. I would find the sight of Bond beating up a woman distasteful.

    Grow up. They should totally establish an evil version of Ana De Armas, and have her kick Bond's ass. That would be awesome.

    You need to grow up. There is zero chance of someone like Ana De Armas could win a fight against a 30something Bond. To pretend otherwise is fantasy, and ridiculous.

    If you can't imagine such a woman, you're ignorant. Please stay out of the writer's room! Anyone who says hard no to any idea, particularly involving a woman, is a red flag and antiquated.

    Can you give me some examples of female athletes bettering their male equivalents in Elite level sport when strength, speed etc. are paramount?
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,092
    Troy wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    I’m not sure about female villain. I would find the sight of Bond beating up a woman distasteful.

    Grow up. They should totally establish an evil version of Ana De Armas, and have her kick Bond's ass. That would be awesome.

    You need to grow up. There is zero chance of someone like Ana De Armas could win a fight against a 30something Bond. To pretend otherwise is fantasy, and ridiculous.

    If you can't imagine such a woman, you're ignorant. Please stay out of the writer's room! Anyone who says hard no to any idea, particularly involving a woman, is a red flag and antiquated.

    Can you give me some examples of female athletes bettering their male equivalents in Elite level sport when strength, speed etc. are paramount?

    I'm not having this conversation with you. It's a disgusting narrative and not what I'm arguing. A good filmmaker can make a challenging physical opponent for Bond in a woman, and it can be cast. I can think of half a dozen ways to handle it. You're sexist.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,337
    Craig said that Charlize Theron could kick his ass. Dunno about that, but if the fight between Gina Carano and Fassbender in Haywire had been for real, she'd've finished him a lot sooner. Probably.
  • Posts: 378
    :))
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,092
    Troy wrote: »
    :))

    I really hope you are not married.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,522
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    :))

    I really hope you are not married.

    Okay gents lets leave this here.
    Time to walk away.
  • Posts: 736
    Anyway, not sure why a woman fighting with Bond became a point of contention, here we have a way Villenueve could do it, he already did it a couple years ago in Blade Runner 2049:

  • edited 2:14am Posts: 5,846
    Anyway, not sure why a woman fighting with Bond became a point of contention, here we have a way Villenueve could do it, he already did it a couple years ago in Blade Runner 2049:


    Oh yeah! Rewatched that film recently. It's a weirdly Bondian film in many ways. That's a great bit of it too.

    Anyway, I think all they can do is depict what's appropriate for the story/characters they're constructing. If they need a female villain or henchwoman to take on Bond, they'll need to devise the best way for our hero to defeat them in that situation and for them to take him on convincingly (yes, a woman can realistically take on a man even in his prime depending on those involved, but we're talking about a film ultimately).
  • Posts: 16,067
    Anyway, not sure why a woman fighting with Bond became a point of contention, here we have a way Villenueve could do it, he already did it a couple years ago in Blade Runner 2049:


    I haven't seen the movie, but there's a difference between science fiction, in a setting that can have aliens, robots, mutant, what have you, and the at least somewhat realistic, real world setting of a spy thriller. I'm not saying it can't be done, but there's a context to take into account. It would also depend of the actress cast. Some can be more convincing than others.
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