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I've never noticed that before...

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  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,068
    Had the thought today that FYEO loosely compares to The Lord Of The Rings. Coveted creation fought over by competing powers, and our hero chooses to destroy the item in the end.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 19 Posts: 7,764
    @007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 5,800
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

    Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

    The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,764
    007HallY wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

    Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

    The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

    Haha yeah, I also took notice of Kina Lillet being mentioned, which is indeed a bit funny. The absence the bitterness of the quinine is a world of difference of course.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 5,800
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

    Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

    The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

    Haha yeah, I also took notice of Kina Lillet being mentioned, which is indeed a bit funny. The absence the bitterness of the quinine is a world of difference of course.

    It’s a strange cocktail, and it’s one that’s kind of been bastardised by bartenders. You get high end bars like Duke’s in London who pride themselves on their ‘Vesper’, which seems to simply be a dry gin martini that’s been batched and comes out of the freezer (nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it’s not even a spin on the Vesper). I suppose it makes sense given when Fleming tried it himself he said it was unpalatable.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,764
    007HallY wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

    Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

    The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

    Haha yeah, I also took notice of Kina Lillet being mentioned, which is indeed a bit funny. The absence the bitterness of the quinine is a world of difference of course.

    It’s a strange cocktail, and it’s one that’s kind of been bastardised by bartenders. You get high end bars like Duke’s in London who pride themselves on their ‘Vesper’, which seems to simply be a dry gin martini that’s been batched and comes out of the freezer (nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it’s not even a spin on the Vesper). I suppose it makes sense given when Fleming tried it himself he said it was unpalatable.

    I notice that often in the world of foods and drinks, things will get sold under a certain name because it's a well-known name, but the recipe is not even close to what it's supposed to be. I guess the 'Vesper' is also one of those cases. Personally I've never had it, so I couldn't say. Given Kina Lillet doesn't get made anymore, I suppose none of us will ever know, right?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,678
    I'm relieved that the Vesper recipe of the novel made it into the film. To me there's no conflict in the slightest for that.

  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited August 19 Posts: 5,800
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

    Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

    The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

    Haha yeah, I also took notice of Kina Lillet being mentioned, which is indeed a bit funny. The absence the bitterness of the quinine is a world of difference of course.

    It’s a strange cocktail, and it’s one that’s kind of been bastardised by bartenders. You get high end bars like Duke’s in London who pride themselves on their ‘Vesper’, which seems to simply be a dry gin martini that’s been batched and comes out of the freezer (nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it’s not even a spin on the Vesper). I suppose it makes sense given when Fleming tried it himself he said it was unpalatable.

    I notice that often in the world of foods and drinks, things will get sold under a certain name because it's a well-known name, but the recipe is not even close to what it's supposed to be. I guess the 'Vesper' is also one of those cases. Personally I've never had it, so I couldn't say. Given Kina Lillet doesn't get made anymore, I suppose none of us will ever know, right?

    With heavily adjusted ratios, stirred, and substitute the Kina Lillet for Cocchi Americano, Kina L'Aero D'or (both of which I guess are more similar to Kina Lillet) or even Lillet Blanc it’s definitely a drink that many enjoy. You’re getting into the realm where you’re deviating from the recipe slightly (although not quite to the extent it’s a completely different, and already established drink, being sold under that name) and it becomes something of a different cocktail altogether, but that’s how mixology works I guess, and it’s how we get something like the modern day Cosmopolitan.
    RichardTheBruce wrote: »
    I'm relieved that the Vesper recipe of the novel made it into the film. To me there's no conflict in the slightest for that.

    Oh I have no issue with it either.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,764
    007HallY wrote: »
    RichardTheBruce wrote: »
    I'm relieved that the Vesper recipe of the novel made it into the film. To me there's no conflict in the slightest for that.

    Oh I have no issue with it either.

    Me neither, it's just an interesting observation :)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 16,024
    007HallY wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

    Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

    The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

    My hypothesis: in the world of Bond, a tarantula bite is lethal and Chianti can also come in white.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,868
    This is not a great insight and is not exactly subtext so you'll probably scoff at it, but I just sort of thought how the opening of NTTD has its OHMSS references in the music of course, but I hadn't quite considered that there, as in OHMSS, Blofeld intentionally kills Bond's chances of future happiness with his new partner, even in both cases whilst in his Aston Martin.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,357
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

    AFAIK from this issue having come up earlier and doing some research on it, there are actually some white wines produced in the Chianti region, though they are not allowed to be called "Chianti". So maybe the waiter tried to find out if maybe Grant wished to have one of those, gently trying to keep him from committing that faux-pas with the red wine and the fish. If Grant had reacted accordingly, Bond might never have found out about him.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 21 Posts: 7,764
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

    AFAIK from this issue having come up earlier and doing some research on it, there are actually some white wines produced in the Chianti region, though they are not allowed to be called "Chianti". So maybe the waiter tried to find out if maybe Grant wished to have one of those, gently trying to keep him from committing that faux-pas with the red wine and the fish. If Grant had reacted accordingly, Bond might never have found out about him.

    That's an interesting suggestion, my friend. I never thought of that but that would have been one very friendly waiter. Good man ;)

    Edit: Bond himself would still have known though, as a connaisseur, that even though perhaps produced in the same area, a white wine still can't bear the name Chianti. So even if the waiter would have helped Grant along, Bond would still be suspicious because of the slip-up anyway...
  • LazzersLazzers
    Posts: 28
    When we first see Sylvia Trench at the card table in 'Dr.No' and starts losing to Bond, the guy on her left seems to be agitated for some reason or other. Just an observation!
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,068
    Lazzers wrote: »
    When we first see Sylvia Trench at the card table in 'Dr.No' and starts losing to Bond, the guy on her left seems to be agitated for some reason or other. Just an observation!

    Maybe he's losing?
  • Reflsin2bourbonsReflsin2bourbons
    Posts: 499
    Perhaps the guy on the left was frustrated at not getting a chance to play. He probably would have been the next in line to play if Ms Trench wasn't chasing her losses and suivi-ing each hand
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,063
    Yes Bond is the "bank" at the table and the others are playing against him. Because of Trench calling Banco she is taking him on alone.

    In Chemin de Fer Baccarat, players have the option to call “Banco” when they wish to bet the entire amount of their current bankroll on the next hand. Calling “Banco” is a strategic decision that players may make based on various factors, including their confidence, their assessment of the other players’ hands, and their risk tolerance. Here are some situations in which a player might consider calling “Banco”:

    Strong Hand:
    • If players believe they have a particularly strong hand, such as a natural (an initial hand totaling 8 or 9), they may call “Banco” to maximize their potential winnings.
    • Confidence in Banker’s Hand: If a player is acting as the banker for the current round and feels confident in the strength of their hand, they may call “Banco” to bet their entire bankroll on their own hand.
    • Strategic Advantage: Calling “Banco” can be a strategic move to assert dominance at the table and put pressure on the other players. It signals confidence and may influence the betting decisions of other players.

    One of the most popular Baccarat variations, also known as European Baccarat. Chemin De Fer is intended mainly for high rollers. In this variation, one of the players is in charge of dealing the cards, taking all bets, and playing the bank. Chemin de Feris also known as “Railroad”.
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