I've never noticed that before...

LucknFate · August 19

Had the thought today that FYEO loosely compares to The Lord Of The Rings. Coveted creation fought over by competing powers, and our hero chooses to destroy the item in the end.

GoldenGun · August 19

@007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

007HallY · August 19

GoldenGun wrote: »

@007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

GoldenGun · August 19

007HallY wrote: »

GoldenGun wrote: »

@007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

Haha yeah, I also took notice of Kina Lillet being mentioned, which is indeed a bit funny. The absence the bitterness of the quinine is a world of difference of course.

007HallY · August 19

GoldenGun wrote: »

007HallY wrote: »

GoldenGun wrote: »

@007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

Haha yeah, I also took notice of Kina Lillet being mentioned, which is indeed a bit funny. The absence the bitterness of the quinine is a world of difference of course.

It’s a strange cocktail, and it’s one that’s kind of been bastardised by bartenders. You get high end bars like Duke’s in London who pride themselves on their ‘Vesper’, which seems to simply be a dry gin martini that’s been batched and comes out of the freezer (nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it’s not even a spin on the Vesper). I suppose it makes sense given when Fleming tried it himself he said it was unpalatable.

GoldenGun · August 19

007HallY wrote: »

GoldenGun wrote: »

007HallY wrote: »

GoldenGun wrote: »

@007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

Haha yeah, I also took notice of Kina Lillet being mentioned, which is indeed a bit funny. The absence the bitterness of the quinine is a world of difference of course.

It’s a strange cocktail, and it’s one that’s kind of been bastardised by bartenders. You get high end bars like Duke’s in London who pride themselves on their ‘Vesper’, which seems to simply be a dry gin martini that’s been batched and comes out of the freezer (nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it’s not even a spin on the Vesper). I suppose it makes sense given when Fleming tried it himself he said it was unpalatable.

I notice that often in the world of foods and drinks, things will get sold under a certain name because it's a well-known name, but the recipe is not even close to what it's supposed to be. I guess the 'Vesper' is also one of those cases. Personally I've never had it, so I couldn't say. Given Kina Lillet doesn't get made anymore, I suppose none of us will ever know, right?

RichardTheBruce · August 19

I'm relieved that the Vesper recipe of the novel made it into the film. To me there's no conflict in the slightest for that.

007HallY · August 19

GoldenGun wrote: »

007HallY wrote: »

GoldenGun wrote: »

007HallY wrote: »

GoldenGun wrote: »

@007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

Haha yeah, I also took notice of Kina Lillet being mentioned, which is indeed a bit funny. The absence the bitterness of the quinine is a world of difference of course.

It’s a strange cocktail, and it’s one that’s kind of been bastardised by bartenders. You get high end bars like Duke’s in London who pride themselves on their ‘Vesper’, which seems to simply be a dry gin martini that’s been batched and comes out of the freezer (nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it’s not even a spin on the Vesper). I suppose it makes sense given when Fleming tried it himself he said it was unpalatable.

I notice that often in the world of foods and drinks, things will get sold under a certain name because it's a well-known name, but the recipe is not even close to what it's supposed to be. I guess the 'Vesper' is also one of those cases. Personally I've never had it, so I couldn't say. Given Kina Lillet doesn't get made anymore, I suppose none of us will ever know, right?

With heavily adjusted ratios, stirred, and substitute the Kina Lillet for Cocchi Americano, Kina L'Aero D'or (both of which I guess are more similar to Kina Lillet) or even Lillet Blanc it’s definitely a drink that many enjoy. You’re getting into the realm where you’re deviating from the recipe slightly (although not quite to the extent it’s a completely different, and already established drink, being sold under that name) and it becomes something of a different cocktail altogether, but that’s how mixology works I guess, and it’s how we get something like the modern day Cosmopolitan.

RichardTheBruce wrote: »

I'm relieved that the Vesper recipe of the novel made it into the film. To me there's no conflict in the slightest for that.

Oh I have no issue with it either.

GoldenGun · August 19

007HallY wrote: »

RichardTheBruce wrote: »

I'm relieved that the Vesper recipe of the novel made it into the film. To me there's no conflict in the slightest for that.

Oh I have no issue with it either.

Me neither, it's just an interesting observation :)

Ludovico · August 19

007HallY wrote: »

GoldenGun wrote: »

@007HallY as somewhat of a wine enthusiast, especially Italian ones, I did notice something peculiar in FRWL. Grant orders, as we all know, a Chianti to go with his fish. Upon which the waiter asks him if he wants the white kind. There's however no such thing as a white Chianti. Now, one can make white variants from any grape (incl. Sangiovese, Chianti should be made with at least 70% Sangiovese), so technically a "white Chianti" could be made, but such a variety would be a rare thing you wouldn't be able to find outside Tuscany (it would most likely be a side experiment from a local winemaker and you'd be able to find it in the neighbourhood), let alone aboard the Orient Express. Moreover, even if you would make a 'white Chianti', you wouldn't be able to call it Chianti since that's a protected geographical name you can only use if you make it in a certain way in a certain area, and that certain way is never white. The laws of protected geographical denominations have been stricter these last few decades of course, so there's still a slight chance that it might have 'existed' at some point. Still though, it would never have been real Chianti, it's highly unlikely that one would know about it and that it would have been widely available. Also, a proper waiter should know what a Chianti is. So Bond doesn't only sit next to someone who orders Chianti with fish, he's also confronted with a waiter who suggests a wine that doesn't exist :p

Maybe it was the waiter’s first day… or the Orient Express was stocked with a very rare 1960s white Chianti! Good catch.

The major alcohol related one I always pick up is Bond’s martini in CR being taken verbatim from the novel. It includes Kina Lillet which hasn’t existed since the 1960s (you get Lillet Blanc which is a different version of it - from what I understand sweeter and without the Quinine). Even Gordon’s gin would have been different back then. The original recipe with those ratios sounds like an absolutely disgusting cocktail too, so it’s funny seeing all these poker players get really into the idea of this drink.

My hypothesis: in the world of Bond, a tarantula bite is lethal and Chianti can also come in white.

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