I've never noticed that before...

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  • Posts: 16,020
    Feyador wrote: »
    Is there a little bit of Apocalypse Now in Spectre?

    Just an observation from a recent viewing of Apocalypse Now: Final Cut (2019).

    Hear me out ...

    In Spectre, during the hotel room scene in Tangier, Madeleine is slightly drunk and lying on the canopy bed in L'Américain. She looks at Bond with a woozy expression and says: “I see two of you. Two James.” It’s a throwaway line on the surface — a sign of her tipsiness — but it carries symbolic weight, especially when seen alongside Aurore Clément’s lines (where it's opium not alcohol) in the French plantation scene of Apocalypse Now. She says to Martin Sheen's Capt. Willard: “There are two of you. Don’t you see? One that kills and one that loves.” As in Spectre, it’s just a brief dialogue scene set on, or around, a canopy bed enveloped by similar dreamlike lighting.

    Craig's Bond & Willard, two protagonists who are assassins (however much we might dress it up in Bond's case), with two women who see the truth, expressed in similar lines, about these emotionally fractured, violent men.

    I can definitely see the similarities.

    I always saw SF and SP to be heavily Kubrick influenced, but I never thought of Coppola and Apocalypse Now.
  • edited July 26 Posts: 895
    I've never noticed that before... that Fleming auto-censored himself in his novels. There is a number a "----ing" instead of "fucking" in Dr. No.

    (Which is kind of sad and funny to me that this word is a no-no while you have beside people getting killed/tortured and racist words here and here).
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,454
    Fleming probably thought there's no need to write the full word because it's a vulgarity.

    And he used them very rarely.

    The 'racist' words were not considered so in 1953.

    As for writing obscenities, i censor myself if doing so. As do a lot of folk.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,851
    Do we know if he censored himself or the publisher did? I always imagined it to be him but I don’t know.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,454
    mtm wrote: »
    Do we know if he censored himself or the publisher did? I always imagined it to be him but I don’t know.

    Not sure what the rules were regarding profanity in books during the 50's.

    I assume Fleming censored himself but i could be wrong.
  • edited July 26 Posts: 895
    I saw a extract of the original manuscript he typed : it was "----ing" in it.
    Fleming probably thought there's no need to write the full word because it's a vulgarity.

    Probably. But if you think something is vulgar, why even have an half of it? There is a lot of hyprocrisy about this word in english-langage countries, like US TV biping it, while keeping just enough of it to have you understand it anyway. It is like if they have have the need to give themself a good conscience. Never understand this culture of doing things by halves: either you do it fully, either you don't do it at all. (But after all it come from a French, where swearingt is I guess part of our culture and image).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,851
    I saw a extract of the original manuscript he typed : it was "----ing" in it.

    Cool, thank you.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,454
    I saw a extract of the original manuscript he typed : it was "----ing" in it.
    Fleming probably thought there's no need to write the full word because it's a vulgarity.

    Probably. But if you think something is vulgar, why even have an half of it? There is a lot of hyprocrisy about this word in english-langage countries, like US TV biping it, while keeping just enough of it to have you understand it anyway. It is like if they have have the need to give themself a good conscience. Never understand this culture of doing things by halves: either you do it fully, either you don't do it at all. (But after all it come from a French, where swearingt is I guess part of our culture and image).

    Well you've answered your own question.

    You're right, there is a lot of hypocrisy about it, but that comes with censorship.

    But as i said, i do it myself when writing a vulgarity, as do many others. It just seems more polite...!
  • Posts: 17
    Something I never noticed before: in A View to a Kill, during the hot tub scene at the "Nippon Relaxation Spa", as Bond goes to change tapes, you can briefly see a copy of Art Garfunkel's 1981 album, Scissors Cut, by the tape player.

    If you look it up on Discogs, you can also see that it's the UK cassette release, a very oblique hint that we're perhaps not in San Francisco at all, but at Pinewood!

    The title track from said album, penned by Jimmy Webb, is well worth a listen, too!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,061
    I would bet that the hot tub scene was in a studio. It's shear size doesn't looks like a "real" physical space. Good catch and find!

    I think of all the things that we can notice now with our ability to freeze frame and re-watch films. Back in the day they would have assumed watching at a theatre and never being able to stop and look at things closely.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,322
    Garfunkel makes the cut:
    32234129617_3eb71eca4b_z.jpg
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,851
    I love these, great work @QBranch :D
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,322
    Latest addition to this scene would be the 1:43 Corvette.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,851
    Driven by someone who doesn't look anything like Walter Gotell.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,322
    I just assumed Gogol was wearing a hyper-realistic rubber mask disguise.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,851
    New head canon added- thanks! :)
  • Posts: 17
    Oh, the props, that's wonderful! So someone else knew about it!

    And yeah, Gogol, the wheel man... the whole premise of that scene is just crazy.
    /:)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,925
    QBranch wrote: »
    I just assumed Gogol was wearing a hyper-realistic rubber mask disguise.

    Is AVTAK the laziest production? It's up there.
  • Posts: 1,979
    echo wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I just assumed Gogol was wearing a hyper-realistic rubber mask disguise.

    Is AVTAK the laziest production? It's up there.

    I've never forgotten the comment of one of the TV critics, possibly Jeffery Lyons, who summed up AVTAK by saying something like "It's like they got together and said "Come on guys, time to make another Bond movie.'"
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,061
    The old days of the every two year film days. They would be forced to come up with something and quick to keep pace. AVTAK was the unique film in that they didn't have a novel to spring off of. This had to be a completely original story with all new characters. Likely why they borrowed heavily from GF. They likely based the film in San Fran due to the city offering massive tax breaks to productions at the time. I believe the Search for Spock was around this time too.
  • Posts: 16,020
    thedove wrote: »
    The old days of the every two year film days. They would be forced to come up with something and quick to keep pace. AVTAK was the unique film in that they didn't have a novel to spring off of. This had to be a completely original story with all new characters. Likely why they borrowed heavily from GF. They likely based the film in San Fran due to the city offering massive tax breaks to productions at the time. I believe the Search for Spock was around this time too.

    I think they took a fair deal of Hugo Drax's background.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited August 18 Posts: 9,172
    Here's a crazy stat, the first James Bond novel was published during Queen Elizabeth the seconds reign and the latest Bond film was also released during her reign!

    I never noticed how Bonds windscreen is made of smartglass in TLD, I thought he was looking at a little screen.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,851
    Well it's a Heads Up display, I don't know what smartglass is.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,760
    Here's a crazy stat, the first James Bond novel was published during Queen Elizabeth the seconds reign and the latest Bond film was also released during her reign!

    So sorry if I'm a bit slow, but that places the entire world of literary as well as cinematic Bond in her reign, right? That really is something, isn't it?

  • Posts: 16,020
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Here's a crazy stat, the first James Bond novel was published during Queen Elizabeth the seconds reign and the latest Bond film was also released during her reign!

    So sorry if I'm a bit slow, but that places the entire world of literary as well as cinematic Bond in her reign, right? That really is something, isn't it?

    That's always something that struck me. A darn shame they never had The Property of a Lady as a movie title. "I am my own master, Mr Bond. But you... you are nothing more but the property of a lady."
    Other observation: he started his "life" when the Queen was a young woman, he was then older than her, he "finished" it when she was an elderly lady.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited August 18 Posts: 9,172
    Another reason my B26 is truly a landmark event, it's the first film where Bond is ruled by a different monarch. I'm pretty sure she was Queen when Fleming typed the first line of Casino Royale, but might be wrong about the exact timing.
  • Posts: 5,788
    Decided to put on GF while I was doing some work this evening (perverse way to watch a Bond film I know - 15 minutes of editing/work, then 20 minutes of watching the film ;) ) Weird thing to notice, and probably based on personal experience (used to be a bartender), but the martini that Bond is given on the plane looks really strange - served in this cheap looking gold flute and half full (even for a shaken martini, which incidentally he never specifies is gin or vodka). And it was served in about 15 seconds (even for a shaken martini that's extraordinary). Gives me ideas of nervous flight staff trying to cobble together this drink for a VIP guest.

    It's just a film, but has anyone who's ever worked in bartending noticed any similar 'falsehoods' when it comes to Bond films/their drinks scenes? Drinks that have come out too quickly or look a little weird? I'm not quite done with GF and waiting for the Mint Julip scene, haha.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,492
    007HallY wrote: »
    Decided to put on GF while I was doing some work this evening (perverse way to watch a Bond film I know - 15 minutes of editing/work, then 20 minutes of watching the film ;) ) Weird thing to notice, and probably based on personal experience (used to be a bartender), but the martini that Bond is given on the plane looks really strange - served in this cheap looking gold flute and half full (even for a shaken martini, which incidentally he never specifies is gin or vodka). And it was served in about 15 seconds (even for a shaken martini that's extraordinary). Gives me ideas of nervous flight staff trying to cobble together this drink for a VIP guest.

    It's just a film, but has anyone who's ever worked in bartending noticed any similar 'falsehoods' when it comes to Bond films/their drinks scenes? Drinks that have come out too quickly or look a little weird? I'm not quite done with GF and waiting for the Mint Julip scene, haha.

    I could be mistaken but does said odd martini on the GF plane also come with a straw?
  • edited August 18 Posts: 5,788
    Benny wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Decided to put on GF while I was doing some work this evening (perverse way to watch a Bond film I know - 15 minutes of editing/work, then 20 minutes of watching the film ;) ) Weird thing to notice, and probably based on personal experience (used to be a bartender), but the martini that Bond is given on the plane looks really strange - served in this cheap looking gold flute and half full (even for a shaken martini, which incidentally he never specifies is gin or vodka). And it was served in about 15 seconds (even for a shaken martini that's extraordinary). Gives me ideas of nervous flight staff trying to cobble together this drink for a VIP guest.

    It's just a film, but has anyone who's ever worked in bartending noticed any similar 'falsehoods' when it comes to Bond films/their drinks scenes? Drinks that have come out too quickly or look a little weird? I'm not quite done with GF and waiting for the Mint Julip scene, haha.

    I could be mistaken but does said odd martini on the GF plane also come with a straw?

    I'll have to rewind :)) But that would be apt, considering it seemed to be only the stewardess and Galore/her co pilot on the plane as far as we know. Why would the stewardess know how to make such a drink? I know airline hospitality was elaborate at the time, but would they have stocked vermouth? A bit presumptuous of Bond to be ordering a cocktail like that on that flight! I'd have gone for a whiskey or beer and asked what they had (although I have horrible memories of paying extortionate amounts for beers on flights! Still would have asked and they'd have probably said Heineken in and outside of the Bond universe). But then again it's a film and I'm not James Bond, haha.

    EDIT: I think it's a lemon twist rather than a straw.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,061
    Eating and drinking scenes are always fun to watch closely. Like how people push their plates away and it is still full of food. Or drink levels change in the glass where continuity fails.

    I never noticed the short time to get the drink made, but I did notice the flute given to Bond. To me it always showed as them trying to accommodate their prisoner but failing. Just like Bond doesn't correct Henderson in YOLT, here he merely thanks Mei Ling and takes a gulp.

    I am going to pay closer attention to drinking and eating scenes in the films to see if there are other gaps in reality.
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