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I've never noticed that before...

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  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,925
    Feyador wrote: »
    Is there a little bit of Apocalypse Now in Spectre?

    Just an observation from a recent viewing of Apocalypse Now: Final Cut (2019).

    Hear me out ...

    In Spectre, during the hotel room scene in Tangier, Madeleine is slightly drunk and lying on the canopy bed in L'Américain. She looks at Bond with a woozy expression and says: “I see two of you. Two James.” It’s a throwaway line on the surface — a sign of her tipsiness — but it carries symbolic weight, especially when seen alongside Aurore Clément’s lines (where it's opium not alcohol) in the French plantation scene of Apocalypse Now. She says to Martin Sheen's Capt. Willard: “There are two of you. Don’t you see? One that kills and one that loves.” As in Spectre, it’s just a brief dialogue scene set on, or around, a canopy bed enveloped by similar dreamlike lighting.

    Craig's Bond & Willard, two protagonists who are assassins (however much we might dress it up in Bond's case), with two women who see the truth, expressed in similar lines, about these emotionally fractured, violent men.

    I can definitely see the similarities.

    I always saw SF and SP to be heavily Kubrick influenced, but I never thought of Coppola and Apocalypse Now.
  • moneyofpropre2moneyofpropre2 France
    edited July 26 Posts: 894
    I've never noticed that before... that Fleming auto-censored himself in his novels. There is a number a "----ing" instead of "fucking" in Dr. No.

    (Which is kind of sad and funny to me that this word is a no-no while you have beside people getting killed/tortured and racist words here and here).
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,440
    Fleming probably thought there's no need to write the full word because it's a vulgarity.

    And he used them very rarely.

    The 'racist' words were not considered so in 1953.

    As for writing obscenities, i censor myself if doing so. As do a lot of folk.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,640
    Do we know if he censored himself or the publisher did? I always imagined it to be him but I don’t know.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,440
    mtm wrote: »
    Do we know if he censored himself or the publisher did? I always imagined it to be him but I don’t know.

    Not sure what the rules were regarding profanity in books during the 50's.

    I assume Fleming censored himself but i could be wrong.
  • moneyofpropre2moneyofpropre2 France
    edited July 26 Posts: 894
    I saw a extract of the original manuscript he typed : it was "----ing" in it.
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Fleming probably thought there's no need to write the full word because it's a vulgarity.

    Probably. But if you think something is vulgar, why even have an half of it? There is a lot of hyprocrisy about this word in english-langage countries, like US TV biping it, while keeping just enough of it to have you understand it anyway. It is like if they have have the need to give themself a good conscience. Never understand this culture of doing things by halves: either you do it fully, either you don't do it at all. (But after all it come from a French, where swearingt is I guess part of our culture and image).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,640
    moneyofpropre2 wrote: »
    I saw a extract of the original manuscript he typed : it was "----ing" in it.

    Cool, thank you.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,440
    moneyofpropre2 wrote: »
    I saw a extract of the original manuscript he typed : it was "----ing" in it.
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Fleming probably thought there's no need to write the full word because it's a vulgarity.

    Probably. But if you think something is vulgar, why even have an half of it? There is a lot of hyprocrisy about this word in english-langage countries, like US TV biping it, while keeping just enough of it to have you understand it anyway. It is like if they have have the need to give themself a good conscience. Never understand this culture of doing things by halves: either you do it fully, either you don't do it at all. (But after all it come from a French, where swearingt is I guess part of our culture and image).

    Well you've answered your own question.

    You're right, there is a lot of hypocrisy about it, but that comes with censorship.

    But as i said, i do it myself when writing a vulgarity, as do many others. It just seems more polite...!
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