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I've never noticed that before...

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  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,990
    Feyador wrote: »
    Is there a little bit of Apocalypse Now in Spectre?

    Just an observation from a recent viewing of Apocalypse Now: Final Cut (2019).

    Hear me out ...

    In Spectre, during the hotel room scene in Tangier, Madeleine is slightly drunk and lying on the canopy bed in L'Américain. She looks at Bond with a woozy expression and says: “I see two of you. Two James.” It’s a throwaway line on the surface — a sign of her tipsiness — but it carries symbolic weight, especially when seen alongside Aurore Clément’s lines (where it's opium not alcohol) in the French plantation scene of Apocalypse Now. She says to Martin Sheen's Capt. Willard: “There are two of you. Don’t you see? One that kills and one that loves.” As in Spectre, it’s just a brief dialogue scene set on, or around, a canopy bed enveloped by similar dreamlike lighting.

    Craig's Bond & Willard, two protagonists who are assassins (however much we might dress it up in Bond's case), with two women who see the truth, expressed in similar lines, about these emotionally fractured, violent men.

    I can definitely see the similarities.

    I always saw SF and SP to be heavily Kubrick influenced, but I never thought of Coppola and Apocalypse Now.
  • moneyofpropre2moneyofpropre2 France
    edited July 26 Posts: 895
    I've never noticed that before... that Fleming auto-censored himself in his novels. There is a number a "----ing" instead of "fucking" in Dr. No.

    (Which is kind of sad and funny to me that this word is a no-no while you have beside people getting killed/tortured and racist words here and here).
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,452
    Fleming probably thought there's no need to write the full word because it's a vulgarity.

    And he used them very rarely.

    The 'racist' words were not considered so in 1953.

    As for writing obscenities, i censor myself if doing so. As do a lot of folk.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,805
    Do we know if he censored himself or the publisher did? I always imagined it to be him but I don’t know.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,452
    mtm wrote: »
    Do we know if he censored himself or the publisher did? I always imagined it to be him but I don’t know.

    Not sure what the rules were regarding profanity in books during the 50's.

    I assume Fleming censored himself but i could be wrong.
  • moneyofpropre2moneyofpropre2 France
    edited July 26 Posts: 895
    I saw a extract of the original manuscript he typed : it was "----ing" in it.
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Fleming probably thought there's no need to write the full word because it's a vulgarity.

    Probably. But if you think something is vulgar, why even have an half of it? There is a lot of hyprocrisy about this word in english-langage countries, like US TV biping it, while keeping just enough of it to have you understand it anyway. It is like if they have have the need to give themself a good conscience. Never understand this culture of doing things by halves: either you do it fully, either you don't do it at all. (But after all it come from a French, where swearingt is I guess part of our culture and image).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,805
    moneyofpropre2 wrote: »
    I saw a extract of the original manuscript he typed : it was "----ing" in it.

    Cool, thank you.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,452
    moneyofpropre2 wrote: »
    I saw a extract of the original manuscript he typed : it was "----ing" in it.
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Fleming probably thought there's no need to write the full word because it's a vulgarity.

    Probably. But if you think something is vulgar, why even have an half of it? There is a lot of hyprocrisy about this word in english-langage countries, like US TV biping it, while keeping just enough of it to have you understand it anyway. It is like if they have have the need to give themself a good conscience. Never understand this culture of doing things by halves: either you do it fully, either you don't do it at all. (But after all it come from a French, where swearingt is I guess part of our culture and image).

    Well you've answered your own question.

    You're right, there is a lot of hypocrisy about it, but that comes with censorship.

    But as i said, i do it myself when writing a vulgarity, as do many others. It just seems more polite...!
  • humblepilothumblepilot UK
    Posts: 17
    Something I never noticed before: in A View to a Kill, during the hot tub scene at the "Nippon Relaxation Spa", as Bond goes to change tapes, you can briefly see a copy of Art Garfunkel's 1981 album, Scissors Cut, by the tape player.

    If you look it up on Discogs, you can also see that it's the UK cassette release, a very oblique hint that we're perhaps not in San Francisco at all, but at Pinewood!

    The title track from said album, penned by Jimmy Webb, is well worth a listen, too!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,038
    I would bet that the hot tub scene was in a studio. It's shear size doesn't looks like a "real" physical space. Good catch and find!

    I think of all the things that we can notice now with our ability to freeze frame and re-watch films. Back in the day they would have assumed watching at a theatre and never being able to stop and look at things closely.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,319
    Garfunkel makes the cut:
    32234129617_3eb71eca4b_z.jpg
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,805
    I love these, great work @QBranch :D
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,319
    Latest addition to this scene would be the 1:43 Corvette.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,805
    Driven by someone who doesn't look anything like Walter Gotell.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,319
    I just assumed Gogol was wearing a hyper-realistic rubber mask disguise.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,805
    New head canon added- thanks! :)
  • humblepilothumblepilot UK
    Posts: 17
    Oh, the props, that's wonderful! So someone else knew about it!

    And yeah, Gogol, the wheel man... the whole premise of that scene is just crazy.
    /:)
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