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The theories of Bond films! Was DAF the film where the series "jumped the shark"?

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  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 2,243
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'd tend to say DAF definitely jumped the shark, although sometimes I think it jumped with YOLT (too much sci-fi, Connery had lost interest in the role, too many nonsensical scenes). But DAF is the very first time, and to a degree the only time, when Bond fell full on self parody. They could take the whole script unchanged except for the names and it would be an Austin Powers movie.

    I think the OP is right; the "You just killed James Bond!" moment is the first instance of outright parody in the series. There are later moments also breaking the fourth wall, like the James Bond theme played by Vijay in OP.

    YOLT treads right up to the line...but it stops before Bond goes into space.

    If jumping the shark equalled breaking the fourth wall, the jump would have started with "This never happened to the other fellow." Plus Draco's midget janitor whistling the Goldfinger theme.

    Yeah, even the Playboy centerfold is a bit weird.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,910
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'd tend to say DAF definitely jumped the shark, although sometimes I think it jumped with YOLT (too much sci-fi, Connery had lost interest in the role, too many nonsensical scenes). But DAF is the very first time, and to a degree the only time, when Bond fell full on self parody. They could take the whole script unchanged except for the names and it would be an Austin Powers movie.

    I think the OP is right; the "You just killed James Bond!" moment is the first instance of outright parody in the series. There are later moments also breaking the fourth wall, like the James Bond theme played by Vijay in OP.

    YOLT treads right up to the line...but it stops before Bond goes into space.

    If jumping the shark equalled breaking the fourth wall, the jump would have started with "This never happened to the other fellow." Plus Draco's midget janitor whistling the Goldfinger theme.

    Yeah, even the Playboy centerfold is a bit weird.

    But surely, that takes nothing more away from the intrinsic quality of the whole film! Hence it's not a jump the shark moment.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 2,243
    Ludovico wrote: »
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'd tend to say DAF definitely jumped the shark, although sometimes I think it jumped with YOLT (too much sci-fi, Connery had lost interest in the role, too many nonsensical scenes). But DAF is the very first time, and to a degree the only time, when Bond fell full on self parody. They could take the whole script unchanged except for the names and it would be an Austin Powers movie.

    I think the OP is right; the "You just killed James Bond!" moment is the first instance of outright parody in the series. There are later moments also breaking the fourth wall, like the James Bond theme played by Vijay in OP.

    YOLT treads right up to the line...but it stops before Bond goes into space.

    If jumping the shark equalled breaking the fourth wall, the jump would have started with "This never happened to the other fellow." Plus Draco's midget janitor whistling the Goldfinger theme.

    Yeah, even the Playboy centerfold is a bit weird.

    But surely, that takes nothing more away from the intrinsic quality of the whole film! Hence it's not a jump the shark moment.

    How many moments like these do you need? ;)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,910
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'd tend to say DAF definitely jumped the shark, although sometimes I think it jumped with YOLT (too much sci-fi, Connery had lost interest in the role, too many nonsensical scenes). But DAF is the very first time, and to a degree the only time, when Bond fell full on self parody. They could take the whole script unchanged except for the names and it would be an Austin Powers movie.

    I think the OP is right; the "You just killed James Bond!" moment is the first instance of outright parody in the series. There are later moments also breaking the fourth wall, like the James Bond theme played by Vijay in OP.

    YOLT treads right up to the line...but it stops before Bond goes into space.

    If jumping the shark equalled breaking the fourth wall, the jump would have started with "This never happened to the other fellow." Plus Draco's midget janitor whistling the Goldfinger theme.

    Yeah, even the Playboy centerfold is a bit weird.

    But surely, that takes nothing more away from the intrinsic quality of the whole film! Hence it's not a jump the shark moment.

    How many moments like these do you need? ;)

    What I mean is that it didn't really turn the series or changed its nature. It's like the handwave in FRWL: it's a bit silly, but doesn't spoil the film.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 796
    Do you agree that DAF is where the series "jumped the shark"?

    Yeah, I'd agree. While YOLT was over-the-top and borderline cartoonish, it was still played pretty straight. DAF, on the other hand, is overtly parodical, with both Connery and Gray essentially playing satirical versions of their characters.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 5,627
    If someone’s not a fan of the odd self referential joke, Bond might not be the best series for them I’d argue!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,853
    I think there certainly was a decline with DAF. I think the producers saw that too and went for Roger Moore, steeply steering away from Connery. They did it because the franchise had jumped the shark with DAF, and they intended to undo the damage. In which they succeeded, I'd argue.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    edited 2:15am Posts: 16,608
    The phrase jumping the shark refers to a pivotal moment in a series where the quality and style takes a downward spiral, and NEVER recovers. Thus, for no matter the longevity, it never again achieves the greatness of it's earlier days. This never happened with Bond, because the series always managed to bounce back and renew itself after a questionable entry. CASINO ROYALE assured the series hadn't jumped the shark after DAD for instance.
    I was joking earlier about SPECTRE, as we still have yet to see what Amazon does.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 3,020
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    The phrase jumping the shark refers to a pivotal moment in a series where the quality and style takes a downward spiral, and NEVER recovers. Thus, for no matter the longevity, it never again achieves the greatness of it's earlier days. This never happened with Bond, because the series always managed to bounce back and renew itself after a questionable entry. CASINO ROYALE assured the series hadn't jumped the shark after DAD for instance.

    I tend to agree.

    The idiom "jumping the shark", or "shark jumping", or to "jump the shark"; means that a creative work or entity has evolved and reached a point in which it has exhausted its core intent and is introducing new ideas that are discordant with or an extreme exaggeration (caricature) of its original theme or purpose. The phrase was coined in 1985 by radio personality Jon Hein in response to a 1977 episode from the fifth season of the American sitcom Happy Days, in which the character of Fonzie (Henry Winkler) jumps over a live shark while on water-skis.

    Fonzie_jumps_the_shark.PNG

    Interestingly, while HAPPY DAYS remained a rating hit even after that episode, the "coolness" factor of Fonzie was probably lost. While the Bond series has had more than its share of eye-rolling moments, it has always bounced back - even if it took several films for it to happen.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,608
    Dwayne wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    The phrase jumping the shark refers to a pivotal moment in a series where the quality and style takes a downward spiral, and NEVER recovers. Thus, for no matter the longevity, it never again achieves the greatness of it's earlier days. This never happened with Bond, because the series always managed to bounce back and renew itself after a questionable entry. CASINO ROYALE assured the series hadn't jumped the shark after DAD for instance.

    I tend to agree.

    The idiom "jumping the shark", or "shark jumping", or to "jump the shark"; means that a creative work or entity has evolved and reached a point in which it has exhausted its core intent and is introducing new ideas that are discordant with or an extreme exaggeration (caricature) of its original theme or purpose. The phrase was coined in 1985 by radio personality Jon Hein in response to a 1977 episode from the fifth season of the American sitcom Happy Days, in which the character of Fonzie (Henry Winkler) jumps over a live shark while on water-skis.

    Fonzie_jumps_the_shark.PNG

    Interestingly, while HAPPY DAYS remained a rating hit even after that episode, the "coolness" factor of Fonzie was probably lost. While the Bond series has had more than its share of eye-rolling moments, it has always bounced back - even if it took several films for it to happen.

    Well said. You defined it better than me. Also, after that episode, HAPPY DAYS also didn't pay as much attention to period detail as previously. The actors were now sporting 80's haircuts in an early 60's setting. I still loved the show, but it lost it's original intent.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 2,216
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    I think there certainly was a decline with DAF. I think the producers saw that too and went for Roger Moore, steeply steering away from Connery. They did it because the franchise had jumped the shark with DAF, and they intended to undo the damage. In which they succeeded, I'd argue.

    Different perspectives. Post DAF undid nothing. If anything, DAF was the first Roger Moore film and the beginning of an era of semi-serious Bond films.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 2,243
    I think DAF is better than LALD. Besides, LALD is less Bond-like, so I don't really think it's a return to anything, but rather another step in evolution.
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,626
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    I think DAF is better than LALD. Besides, LALD is less Bond-like, so I don't really think it's a return to anything, but rather another step in evolution.

    There’s some elements of Dr. No in LALD I’d say but yeah it’s pretty unlike any other film in the series for the most part.
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