Superman: The Man of Tomorrow

MaxCasino · July 20

Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »

Superman drops 54% during second weekend estimated to cross 400 million by end of today, I suspect Superman may have similar legs to Guardians 3 at the box office.

That's better than the 81% drop of Batman V Superman or Joker 2. Here's hoping for more DC movie news.

StirredNotShaken · July 21

I hope Superman outgrosses The Fantastic Four: First Steps in the long run. The latter looks like a great movie and I'm excited to see it on Thursday, but the DCU needs this win more than the MCU does.

MakeshiftPython · July 21

I’m concerned of F4. On paper I love the idea of a1960s futurism Fantastic Four adventure. But all the trailers and clips I’ve seen kind of leave me cold, and there seems to be a lack of chemistry between the leads, including Pascal and Kirby. Even worse, Pascal has this deer on headlights expression throughout most of it like he doesn’t know why he’s there. It’s really bizarre.

DEKE_RIVERS · July 21

I just saw the Superman movie.Yeah It's a modern day Lester film. The traffic light joke wouldn't be out of place. It's a funny movie, no doubt about it.

MakeshiftPython · July 21

I agree, though I’d say that its humor is both verbal like Donner’s and visual like Lester’s. Sort of the best of both worlds. I’d even say it’s a lot more successful with its visual humor than Lester generally was. There’s one gag in SUPERMAN II where the visual punchline is the reveal of the front of a taxi car getting smashed due to ramming into Clark Kent. However, it doesn’t work because nobody behaves in character. Clark wouldn’t just react nonchalantly and walk away from the crash site (if anything he would apologize for the inconvenience and come up with an excuse for how it happened). Lois would also be a lot more inquisitive about seeing what just happened on the street and not brush it off so easily. Funny thing is there’s on set footage with Reeve trying to understand the logistics of that crash scenario and why the cab driver wouldn’t be more concerned over the fact that he just hit a pedestrian, and Lester sort of handwaves it with “eh, New Yorkers, amirite??”

Now I’m just imagining how a SUPERMAN III would have turned out if they had Mankiewicz write that film. He probably would have provided a lot more suitable verbal humor for Richard Pryor than what he was given by the Newmans.

Fire_and_Ice_Returns · July 21

MaxCasino wrote: »

Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »

Superman drops 54% during second weekend estimated to cross 400 million by end of today, I suspect Superman may have similar legs to Guardians 3 at the box office.

That's better than the 81% drop of Batman V Superman or Joker 2. Here's hoping for more DC movie news.

I suspect the DC films we will get will be unpredictable which I don't mind, I like what they are proposing with the new Supergirl movie.

MaxCasino · July 21

StirredNotShaken wrote: »

I hope Superman outgrosses The Fantastic Four: First Steps in the long run. The latter looks like a great movie and I'm excited to see it on Thursday, but the DCU needs this win more than the MCU does.

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

I’m concerned of F4. On paper I love the idea of a1960s futurism Fantastic Four adventure. But all the trailers and clips I’ve seen kind of leave me cold, and there seems to be a lack of chemistry between the leads, including Pascal and Kirby. Even worse, Pascal has this deer on headlights expression throughout most of it like he doesn’t know why he’s there. It’s really bizarre.

Yes, the DCU needs a chance to shine. Meanwhile, the MCU keeps repeating itself. I find myself cringing at all their new trailers lately. Their dialogue is so unnatural, and often delivered poorly.

DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »

I just saw the Superman movie.Yeah It's a modern day Lester film. The traffic light joke wouldn't be out of place. It's a funny movie, no doubt about it.

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

I agree, though I’d say that its humor is both verbal like Donner’s and visual like Lester’s. Sort of the best of both worlds. I’d even say it’s a lot more successful with its visual humor than Lester generally was. There’s one gag in SUPERMAN II where the visual punchline is the reveal of the front of a taxi car getting smashed due to ramming into Clark Kent. However, it doesn’t work because nobody behaves in character. Clark wouldn’t just react nonchalantly and walk away from the crash site (if anything he would apologize for the inconvenience and come up with an excuse for how it happened). Lois would also be a lot more inquisitive about seeing what just happened on the street and not brush it off so easily. Funny thing is there’s on set footage with Reeve trying to understand the logistics of that crash scenario and why the cab driver wouldn’t be more concerned over the fact that he just hit a pedestrian, and Lester sort of handwaves it with “eh, New Yorkers, amirite??”

Now I’m just imagining how a SUPERMAN III would have turned out if they had Mankiewicz write that film. He probably would have provided a lot more suitable verbal humor for Richard Pryor than what he was given by the Newmans.

I think James Gunn understood Superman MUCH MORE than Richard Lester, The Salkinds and the Newmans did all put together. Also, Tom Mankiewicz is a hypocrite when he criticized the campiness of the Superman scripts. His Bond scripts were just as silly. And Guy Hamilton's cynical filmmaking for Bond was as noticeable as Richard Lester's (and Zack Snyder's) cynicalness for Superman. So, James Gunn just tried something different. Now, if he (or another writer/director) can introduce a new villain from the comics (an A-list Superman villain in particular), for a sequel, that would be an respectable challenge both for the filmmakers and the general audience.

MakeshiftPython · July 22

Mankiewicz sensibilities as far as humor go are very different. Like I said, most of the humor in the first film is verbal while the humor in II and III tends to be much more slapstick visuals. But there’s also different priorities when it comes to characterization.

Take for instance when Superman tells Lois about the green crystal. As it is, it’s an awkward exchange with Lois never asking any questions and just responding to his story with “ohhh”. The Newmans don’t really give her much to do. Whereas Mankiewicz probably would have rewritten it to have way more back and forth because he and Donner were leaning heaving on screwball comedy writing where the women talk as fast and as tough, and it’s part of what makes you believe why Superman would be in love with Lois. But the Newmans treat her more as the dawning love interest. Only moments I do like with her are like at Niagara Falls, and Kidder is actually great in her final scene in II.

Fire_and_Ice_Returns · July 22

Just got out of the cinema after watching Superman, it was ok.

DarthDimi · July 22

Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »

Just got out of the cinema after watching Superman, it was ok.

Where do you rank the film against the Donner / Snyder stuff, @Fire_and_Ice_Returns?

Fire_and_Ice_Returns · July 22

DarthDimi wrote: »

Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »

Just got out of the cinema after watching Superman, it was ok.

Where do you rank the film against the Donner / Snyder stuff, @Fire_and_Ice_Returns?

Right now below all of the above, I have only seen Superman 2025 once and the sound system in the cinema was not the best which kind of ruined the viewing experience in places.

The plus points I liked the casting across the board no issues there I just felt many of the characters were not given much to do (I read some time ago 25 minutes were cut and it shows), there are some really cool shots of Superman flying, I followed everything that was going on and understood the exposition etc.

Negatives I think they really wasted an opportunity with Ultraman, I think the script was average and surface level, I struggled to get emotionally invested in most of what was going on. The scene with Clark and Lois arguing seemed to drag on first watch, the Jimmy and Eve scenes were pretty painful to watch.

I knew this going in that we were going to get a James Gunn film and that was exactly what we got IMO, I think Gunn's 3 Guardians films were better written right now.

My opinion could change after watching it at home several times in the future for sure, there are many films that on first cinema viewing have felt jarring and I later went on to love them.

Looking at the bigger picture this film is setting up a universe I think they accomplished that, it is wise not too go too big too soon which suggests they do indeed have a plan. I love BvS but I will admit they crammed way too much into that film.

My ranking for the modern reboots of Superman at the moment are...

1) Man of Steel
2) Superman 2025
3) Superman Returns.

MakeshiftPython · July 22

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thedove · July 22

You are I are of one mind @Fire_and_Ice_Returns I too found the movie to be lacking emotional investment. Your ranking of the modern films is also aligned.

Fire_and_Ice_Returns · July 22

thedove wrote: »

You are I are of one mind @Fire_and_Ice_Returns I too found the movie to be lacking emotional investment. Your ranking of the modern films is also aligned.

I felt there was very little dramatic tension , I left the cinema feeling quite numb to be honest.

DarthDimi · July 22

Right now, though I think it's hard to compare them, I'd say

1) Superman: The Movie
1B) All the Fleischer Superman cartoons
2) Man Of Steel
3) Superman 2025
4) Superman Returns
5) Superman 2 (either cut)
6) The opening title sequence of Superman 3
6B) Pretty much every Superman animated film
7) Superman and the Mole Men
8) The rest of The Richard Pryor Show Superman 3
9) Superman IV: The Quest For Peace

007HallY · July 22

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

:))

To be fair for all my reservations about this film I think it's better than MoS/Snyder's films. In fact there's a distinct anti-Snyder dynamic with the plot twist about -

Jar El's message about Superman conquering earth. In MoS of course Jar-El is this wholly good, almost mythic hero while Pa Kent is cynical and overbearingly protective towards Clark. To the point in fact where his concerns about his son outing his powers to the world are proven totally wrong by the end of the film, making his death a bit stupid but quite tragic in another sense. In this film it's the opposite way around. I actually really like how they did it. The idealised Jar-El wasn't the virtuous figure Superman thought he was, and Pa and Ma Kent - who incidentally are played by character actors you'd have to look up online and look strikingly ordinary but friendly - are these lovely salt of the earth people who helped ignite their adoptive son's hope and humanity. Where Snyder's films are concerned about destiny and this idea of Superman being this pre-ordained Demi-God who has come to protect earth, Gunn's Superman is an outsider, but one who was influenced by goodness and even embraced it himself. I like it.

TheSkyfallen06 · July 22

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

first-look-at-krypto-in-superman-2025-v0-5nek61s8ay7e1.png

MakeshiftPython · July 22

007HallY wrote: »

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

:))

To be fair for all my reservations about this film I think it's better than MoS/Snyder's films. In fact there's a distinct anti-Snyder dynamic with the plot twist about -

Jar El's message about Superman conquering earth. In MoS of course Jar-El is this wholly good, almost mythic hero while Pa Kent is cynical and overbearingly protective towards Clark. To the point in fact where his concerns about his son outing his powers to the world are proven totally wrong by the end of the film, making his death a bit stupid but quite tragic in another sense. In this film it's the opposite way around. I actually really like how they did it. The idealised Jar-El wasn't the virtuous figure Superman thought he was, and Pa and Ma Kent - who incidentally are played by character actors you'd have to look up online and look strikingly ordinary but friendly - are these lovely salt of the earth people who helped ignite their adoptive son's hope and humanity. Where Snyder's films are concerned about destiny and this idea of Superman being this pre-ordained Demi-God who has come to protect earth, Gunn's Superman is an outsider, but one who was influenced by goodness and even embraced it himself. I like it.

I wouldn’t call it anti-Snyder because

Jor-El sending his son to conquer Earth

has been done in other interations before, they hadn’t done it on a blockbuster film until now.

I think the point of Snyder’s Pa Kent was really “saving lives is good, just be very careful of doing that otherwise people find out your secret”. SMALLVILLE pretty much nailed. It’s just that Snyder isn’t exactly the most elegant filmmaker when it comes to trying to convey those ideas. When Snyder has to tell a story through visuals he’s actually pretty brilliant. He’d be an amazing silent film director. When it comes to dialogue that’s where he always falls short. It’s usually miscalculated. There’s some lines by Superman in his films that just doesn’t sound like something the character would ever say.

“The Bat is dead. Bury it. Consider this mercy.”

“I’ll take you in without breaking you, which is more than you deserve!”

Yikes!

However, if Snyder did a 1930s Golden Age Superman story? That would probably be on point, especially if he’s having Superman fight union busters, corrupt politicians, and slumlords. Less a messiah figure like Jesus Christ, more a radical like Luigi Mangione.

007HallY · July 22

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

007HallY wrote: »

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

:))

To be fair for all my reservations about this film I think it's better than MoS/Snyder's films. In fact there's a distinct anti-Snyder dynamic with the plot twist about -

Jar El's message about Superman conquering earth. In MoS of course Jar-El is this wholly good, almost mythic hero while Pa Kent is cynical and overbearingly protective towards Clark. To the point in fact where his concerns about his son outing his powers to the world are proven totally wrong by the end of the film, making his death a bit stupid but quite tragic in another sense. In this film it's the opposite way around. I actually really like how they did it. The idealised Jar-El wasn't the virtuous figure Superman thought he was, and Pa and Ma Kent - who incidentally are played by character actors you'd have to look up online and look strikingly ordinary but friendly - are these lovely salt of the earth people who helped ignite their adoptive son's hope and humanity. Where Snyder's films are concerned about destiny and this idea of Superman being this pre-ordained Demi-God who has come to protect earth, Gunn's Superman is an outsider, but one who was influenced by goodness and even embraced it himself. I like it.

I wouldn’t call it anti-Snyder because
Jor-El sending his son to conquer Earth
has been done in other interations before, they hadn’t done it on a blockbuster film until now.

I think the point of Snyder’s Pa Kent was really “saving lives is good, just be very careful of doing that otherwise people find out your secret”. SMALLVILLE pretty much nailed. It’s just that Snyder isn’t exactly the most elegant filmmaker when it comes to trying to convey those ideas. When Snyder has to tell a story through visuals he’s actually pretty brilliant. He’d be an amazing silent film director. When it comes to dialogue that’s where he always falls short. It’s usually miscalculated. There’s some lines by Superman in his films that just doesn’t sound like something the character would ever say.

“The Bat is dead. Bury it. Consider this mercy.”

“I’ll take you in without breaking you, which is more than you deserve!”

Yikes!

However, if Snyder did a 1930s Golden Age Superman story? That would probably be on point, especially if he’s having Superman fight union busters, corrupt politicians, and slumlords. Less a messiah figure like Jesus Christ, more a radical like Luigi Mangione.

Oh to be clear I don’t think Gunn was trying to make his Superman the opposite of Snyder’s or was railing against his films especially (at least in this particular decision). That’s just how it came across to me and it shows the different approaches.

Not gonna lie I’d be interested in seeing a ‘silent’ Snyder film (or at least one without dialogue).

MakeshiftPython · July 22

When he does dialogue free montages those are genuinely great. That main title sequence of WATCHMEN? Amazing. The dialogue free opening of SUCKER PUNCH? I really thought I was in for something amazing (before the rest of the film played).

That said, I think he just needs better writers when it comes to dialogue. WATCHMEN is practically the comic book verbatim. He’s kind of like Ridley Scott, who’s a great visual artist but not the greatest when it comes to judging scripts.

echo · July 22

I enjoyed it well enough but felt it was a mixed bag. Nothing can touch the first two films in terms of the acting and (more or less) tone. Personally, I'd rather see aliens adjusting to Earth (Superman and Zod) than random dinosaurs and aliens from other dimensions threatening Earth.

I didn't care about most of the battles. I'd rather see scenes with Superman and Lois, and Superman and Lex. The script needed more story for Lois in particular. I understand they're introducing a new DC universe but I didn't really care. The prison scenes were slow.

I did like the callbacks to the Reeve films (the interview with Lois, Miss Techmacher, the helicopter). Those were cleverly done.

I was highly amused that once again Lex wants a land deal. Plus shades of Blofeld in OHMSS.

Krypto = Jaws in MR. He's there for the kids.

thedove · 12:05am

Someone made that comment. Krypto is part of the merchandising efforts for the toys. As is the

Alien creature that attacks the city. Also interesting that you can say that Superman doesn't win any of the battles he has, except for the very end when he kills Ultraman...though some say the demise of Ultraman may be a set up for a future movie. Interesting that the alien is defeated by the Justice Gang and not sup's!

MakeshiftPython · 1:09am

Krypto is definitely for the kids and will probably be seen as one of the best things to happen to the Superman franchise. When you engage a new generation of fans like this, it’s all the more worth it.

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ToTheRight · 1:49am

Here's my ranking of Superman on the big screen....................

1. SUPERMAN AND THE MOLE-MEN. (1951)
2. SUPERMAN THE MOVIE (1978)
3. SUPERMAN II (1981)
4. SUPERMAN (2025)
5. SUPERMAN II THE DONNER CUT
6. SUPERMAN (1948)
7. ATOM MAN VS SUPERMAN (1950)
8. SUPERMAN III
9. SUPERMAN IV THE QUEST FOR PEACE
10. MAN OF STEEL
11. SUPERMAN RETURNS
12. JUSTICE LEAGUE
13. BATMAN V SUPERMAN

MakeshiftPython · 2:03am

Which version of JL?

I’m currently in the middle of the Snyder cut, and frankly I think I’d rank it over both MOS and BVS.

ToTheRight · 2:18am

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

Which version of JL?

I’m currently in the middle of the Snyder cut, and frankly I think I’d rank it over both MOS and BVS.

The first. I haven't seen the Snyder cut yet.

MakeshiftPython · 2:23am

My only quibble is that it easily could have been shorter, and it likely would have been anyway in 2017. The 4 hour version has a ton of fat in it that easily could have been trimmed out. This is only my second viewing because four hours is kind of a commitment, and I took a break after the first half.

Mathis1 · 7:14am

Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »

Just got out of the cinema after watching Superman, it was ok.

Saw it yesterday, agree, just ok! I'm more of a Batman fan anyway! 😁

MakeshiftPython · 8:11am

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Fire_and_Ice_Returns · 8:17am

Mathis1 wrote: »

Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »

Just got out of the cinema after watching Superman, it was ok.

Saw it yesterday, agree, just ok! I'm more of a Batman fan anyway! 😁

After some more thought Superman 2025 felt like a pilot episode to a new show, often when you watch the old style TV pilots you know the script probably needed a few more drafts, they haven't quite got everything right yet and things would likely improve as the show progressed.

I think when I have watched Superman 2025 at home a few more times I will enjoy it more.

Superman and Batman are my favorite comic book characters though Superman takes top spot, I have more Superman memorabilia than Bond, I have had to put most of my Superman items in storage as just don't have the space to display it lol

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