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Superman: The Man of Tomorrow

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  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 5,583
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    :)) There you go! Did anyone have this one their bingo card?

    Ah well, I guess that's the nature of big films nowadays. There'll always be something to complain about before it's released, and often it'll be anti-woke stuff. Keeps people watching. NTTD got a bit of this sort of stuff, as did the First Light trailer. I suspect we'll see it with Bond 26. It's certainly not something that tanks these films in itself though.

    Hopefully this crap is tailing off a bit now, although I suppose the big blockbusters this year are looking pretty white. I guess Jurassic managed to have a female star without getting too much woke mud thrown at it, but it's the dinos which are the star of that one.
    Bond 26 will absolutely be accused of it though, you're right. Doesn't matter what it is, they'll find something to call woke because it's a meaningless word.

    Like I said, it keeps people watching certain people's opinion programmes or Youtube channels. Rarely is it genuine criticism. I suppose random people on the Internet also get to feel like they're fighting against something if they're vocal about this sort of stuff (the thing is most of the time it makes no difference. NTTD didn't tank because there was a black female character or because the director said Connery's Bond was a bit of a rapist. The Batman didn't flop because of a heavy handed line about white men. This film certainly won't be a disaster because the director has made an immigrant comparison... I'm relatively sure that's been a thing people have said about Superman for a while now anyway. At best there might a Snow White type situation where the film is a bit rubbish and the lead is a PR disaster, or maybe an Indiana Jones thing where it wasn't going to be much of a financial success anyway, but that can happen with any film).
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,932
    I don't look at upcoming movies and say "This movie looks pretty white". Or "This movie looks pretty diverse." I care about the movie and it's entertainment value. Movies can have female leads and those movies can be successful. Movies can have male leads and have success.

    Would a Supergirl movie be as well attended as a Superman movie? I am not sure. But I am not sure we can say because the hero is a person who identifies as female the movie didn't perform well. Wonder Woman the first movie did very well, the second Wonder Woman wasn't as well received or successful. Did it have to do with the lead? Nope. It was the story and the lack of a compelling villain.

    I am cautiously optimistic about this movie. I have some minor quibbles based on what has been shown nothing that should stop my enjoyment of the movie. Gunn has shown himself to be a good director and story teller. His GOTG Volume 2 wasn't as good as Volume 1 and Volume 3.

    The PR for this film has been solid and quite engaging which is also an encouraging sign!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,509
    thedove wrote: »
    I don't look at upcoming movies and say "This movie looks pretty white". Or "This movie looks pretty diverse." I care about the movie and it's entertainment value. Movies can have female leads and those movies can be successful. Movies can have male leads and have success.

    I think you've missed the point a bit; it wasn't a value judgement about either of those, just an observation that there's perhaps less ammunition amongst the summer slate this year for the folks who like to badmouth a movie ahead of release because it features a non-white or female lead, because that's something they label as 'woke'.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,773
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Funny thing is when Raimi’s first Spider-Man came out one of my first impressions was that it reminded me of Donner’s Superman because of its tone being just aa earnest and reverential.

    Do you still think so? I'm not sure I'd call it earnest; it's quite comic-y and tongue in cheek at points I'd say, but not in an undermining way.

    That’s what makes them work. The films were willing to poke fun yet also be reverential. It’s a tightrope they manage to pull off. Like how Superman says “I’m here to fight for truth, justice, and the American way”, he actually says that with complete sincerity while Lois mocks that with her retort “you're gonna end up fighting every elected official in this country!”
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 8 Posts: 18,509
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Funny thing is when Raimi’s first Spider-Man came out one of my first impressions was that it reminded me of Donner’s Superman because of its tone being just aa earnest and reverential.

    Do you still think so? I'm not sure I'd call it earnest; it's quite comic-y and tongue in cheek at points I'd say, but not in an undermining way.

    That’s what makes them work. The films were willing to poke fun yet also be reverential. It’s a tightrope they manage to pull off.

    Okay cool; yeah I think that's the mark of a really good director to be honest. Being able to balance tones, to make a film which knows when it can be silly and take the mick out of itself but can also be sincere and emotionally involving at the rights points too can't be easy when you're assembling things over the course of many months. I almost feel like making a relentlessly gritty movie is probably easier.

    When are these reviews out? I thought they'd be published by now.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited July 8 Posts: 8,773
    The embargo just lifted, they’re all dropping right now.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-reviews/superman-review-david-corenswet-rachel-brosnahan-james-gunn-1236305764/

    https://variety.com/2025/film/reviews/superman-review-james-gunn-david-corenswet-1236444126/

    https://www.ign.com/articles/superman-2025-review-james-gunn-david-corenswet-rachel-brosnahan-nicholas-hoult

    Ha! Empire didn’t like it

    https://www.empireonline.com/movies/reviews/superman-2025/
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 8 Posts: 18,509
    Heh! Yeah that Empire one was a real surprise; with that and The Guardian's response to it (also negative) I'm not too certain about this film. 'Just doesn't work' are quite strong words.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,773
    85% with over a hundred reviews so far, if that matters

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/superman_2025

    That’s pretty much in line with Gunn’s track record.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,584
    My wife and I are taking my Dad to see SUPERMAN this weekend. His birthday is tomorrow, so it will be a fun event to have us together watching the new film. My Dad and Mom took me to see the 1978 film when I was three and that ignited my love for cinema.
    I'm really excited for this one.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 26,073
    I read a lot of reviews last night, I will make my own my mind up.

    I like the majority of the DC animated Superman movies and own most of them, the film to me sounds and looks like a live action animated movie.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,773
    I really like this cue

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited July 9 Posts: 26,073
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I really like this cue


    Just listening to it now, this reminded me of Star Trek Generations by Dennis McCarthy which I like.

    I attempted to purchase the score yesterday not available here yet.

    The LuthorCorp theme is pretty good, has some Bond vibes....


    Edited: Superman 2025 soundtrack now available just purchased and downloading it now.

    The first notes of Home which opens the album is pure William's, interesting getting some Man of Steel vibes here also...

    33 tracks on the Superman soundtrack which I like to see,
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,509
    I've been giving it a listen on Spotify, it's not really my sort of thing, bit bland. I don't think I'd call any of it Williams in style.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,773
    It’s definitely going for a different approach with the theme, I’m okay with that. I didn’t need it to be the same style as the Donner film.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 26,073
    I am 14 tracks in it is a mixed bag, the 14th track which is a song is typical of James Gunn that's for sure.

    Having not seen the film its difficult to see how some of these themes will land. Several that have landed are the ones that are easy to connect to scenes in the trailer.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,509
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It’s definitely going for a different approach with the theme, I’m okay with that. I didn’t need it to be the same style as the Donner film.

    Oh yeah definitely. That video I posted the other day that someone had made a set of titles for this film in the style of the Donner one: I absolutely don't want that. Got to move on.
    It's arguable that the Williams theme shouldn't be there at all really, but it's such a damned good theme- I'm kind of half and half on it. If it becomes the equivalent of the Bond theme, tied forever to the character, I guess I have no problem with that.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited July 9 Posts: 26,073
    I have listened to the full score, it has its moments though nowhere near the likes of Man of Steel, BvS or The Flash, admittedly some scores don't work in isolation.

    I do like my scores and have hundreds of them, once I can link scenes/moments to the Superman score it will likely improve.

    I would never compare any score to John Williams Superman The Movie score as that is unfair, Superman The Movie is one of the best soundtracks of all time.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 26,073
    Superman - Exclusive Clip (2025) David Corenswet, Nicholas Hoult

    Spoilers is guess/
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,773
    Just came back from a screening. That was a lot of fun. I should give a fair warning: If your knowledge of Superman only extends as far as the films, be prepared for what is THE most comic booky Superman film of all time where it feels like nothing is left off the table. Right from the get go we learn that this is a firmly established DC world with its own history and we’re just dropping right in the middle of it in the context of a story centered on Superman.

    I give it an 8 out of 10. Very solid, but I’m reluctant to call it perfect because I’m still processing it. I think David Corenswet is really establishing himself as THE Superman of his generation. I can’t wait to see him in more stories.

    Ranking:

    1. SUPERMAN (1978)
    2. SUPERMAN II (1980)
    3. SUPERMAN (2025)
    (large chasm)
    4. SUPERMAN III (1983)
    5. SUPERMAN IV: THE QUEST FOR PEACE (1987)
    6. BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE (2016)
    7. MAN OF STEEL (2013)
    8. SUPERMAN RETURNS (2006)
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,437
    I saw it last night. It's a masterpiece. The greatest Superman movie and David Corenswet sits only inches below Christopher Reeve for me, which is the thing that stuns me the most, because 24 hours ago I thought Reeve was eternally untouchable. If Corenswet gets to do one or two more Superman performances on this level...

    Also, the movie is incredibly, wonderfully "woke". Conservatives are at risk of an aneurysm if they go to see this. Genuinely feels like WB told Gunn, "whatever, do what you want". Give me 50 more with THIS director and THIS actor.
  • AgentM72AgentM72
    Posts: 866
    Saw it last night as well and couldn't agree more with the prevailing sentiment. By far the most fun I've had in a cinema in a long time.

    I'm a massive fan of Superman going back to childhood, the Donner movies + Williams score are my touchstone, and I *adored* this film. In many ways it's nothing like Donner's take -- it's far sillier, pure comic book craziness, even down to technical aspects like structure, pacing, narrative flexibility, and certainly visual style. But there's just such an incredible tonal bulls-eye that feels unequivocally like Superman should feel.

    It's one of those "two hours feels like twenty minutes" films, in the best possible way. I'm seeing it again in IMAX tonight and can't wait.

    If you want a fun Superman movie that feels like a comic book movie come to life -- with a shockingly resonant plot (for our modern age) -- I can't recommend it enough.
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,619
    I’ll be seeing the film this weekend!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,869
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    As for the film itself, I get the sense some people really want it to do badly (mainly those online).

    Yeah there is an odd undercurrent of that. Maybe putting a dog in is too woke or something :D
    I do hope it's good, I like Superman films, and although it's hard to be quite sure how this will land I do like that it looks like it's not aiming for dark and gritty. I will definitely be checking out the reviews. I'm sure Empire will like it: they thought that Captain America film was good...

    I saw a little video of James Gunn talking about the Superman costume and how they talked a lot about the little red pants and whether to put them on because they look silly, and then they agreed that Superman wears them because they look silly and he wants to seem unthreatening. Which is fine I guess, I'm glad they justified it to themselves and it's a nice character note about Superman, but to me that seems like people talking who are too close to Superman- his outfit looks silly no matter what! :D
    I don't think it looks any less silly when they remove the red knickers- he's still in a leotard with a big red cape and high boots! :))

    Yeah, I remember reading their take on it was this Superman's costume was inspired by pro wrestlers (hence the red knickers). I guess Superman's suit was inspired by strongmen in the circus so it makes sense. I do like the idea that he's a character who wants to come across as non-threatening. It's kind of the point of Superman.

    A lot of the push back seems to come from fans of the Snyder films and I guess Cavill. I've actually never seen anything quite like it. You didn't get Nolan or Christian Bale fans picking apart trailers for the new Batman film. Hell, even with the whole CraigNotBond thing in 2006 - which you could argue is about as close as this situation gets in regards to DC course correcting and going with a new actor like Bond did - I don't get the sense it exclusively came from people wanting to see Brosnan come back. I don't think it'll have an impact on this film's success either way.

    Yes it's very odd, luckily I don't think it's crossed over into wide awareness like the poisoning of the well with CraigNotBond and the last Indiana Jones being supposedly too woke or whatever; this little campaign has stayed pretty much in the little Snyder ghettos online.

    Ah okay, might have spoken too soon, although I'm not sure this counts as crossing over into the mainstream :D

    bafkreih3patsv6igtvhsfeytvrbff5sesy2b4w2az4nhshwgb5dmsbemsm@jpeg

    Well done for working out Superman is an immigrant guys, only took you 86 years ;)

    He saves people who are less advantaged than him too: how woke can he get?

    Superman is also a thinly disguised Jew in a gentile society, but that it another debate.

    Anyway, Dean Cain said a few stupid words: https://ew.com/dean-cain-complains-superman-james-gunn-immigration-focus-11769444

    I haven't seen the new movie but... am I the only one who thinks that Cain was unconvincing as Superman AND Clark Kent?

    On a side note, sorry to come up so late in this thread.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    edited July 11 Posts: 2,211

    AgentM72 wrote: »
    Saw it last night as well and couldn't agree more with the prevailing sentiment. By far the most fun I've had in a cinema in a long time.

    I'm a massive fan of Superman going back to childhood, the Donner movies + Williams score are my touchstone, and I *adored* this film. In many ways it's nothing like Donner's take -- it's far sillier, pure comic book craziness, even down to technical aspects like structure, pacing, narrative flexibility, and certainly visual style. But there's just such an incredible tonal bulls-eye that feels unequivocally like Superman should feel.

    It's one of those "two hours feels like twenty minutes" films, in the best possible way. I'm seeing it again in IMAX tonight and can't wait.

    If you want a fun Superman movie that feels like a comic book movie come to life -- with a shockingly resonant plot (for our modern age) -- I can't recommend it enough.

    Is the humor closer to Superman II or Superman III?
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,437
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    Saw it last night as well and couldn't agree more with the prevailing sentiment. By far the most fun I've had in a cinema in a long time.

    I'm a massive fan of Superman going back to childhood, the Donner movies + Williams score are my touchstone, and I *adored* this film. In many ways it's nothing like Donner's take -- it's far sillier, pure comic book craziness, even down to technical aspects like structure, pacing, narrative flexibility, and certainly visual style. But there's just such an incredible tonal bulls-eye that feels unequivocally like Superman should feel.

    It's one of those "two hours feels like twenty minutes" films, in the best possible way. I'm seeing it again in IMAX tonight and can't wait.

    If you want a fun Superman movie that feels like a comic book movie come to life -- with a shockingly resonant plot (for our modern age) -- I can't recommend it enough.

    Is the humor closer to Superman II or Superman III?

    Neither. Gunn's humour is nothing like the Reeve movies.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,773
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    Saw it last night as well and couldn't agree more with the prevailing sentiment. By far the most fun I've had in a cinema in a long time.

    I'm a massive fan of Superman going back to childhood, the Donner movies + Williams score are my touchstone, and I *adored* this film. In many ways it's nothing like Donner's take -- it's far sillier, pure comic book craziness, even down to technical aspects like structure, pacing, narrative flexibility, and certainly visual style. But there's just such an incredible tonal bulls-eye that feels unequivocally like Superman should feel.

    It's one of those "two hours feels like twenty minutes" films, in the best possible way. I'm seeing it again in IMAX tonight and can't wait.

    If you want a fun Superman movie that feels like a comic book movie come to life -- with a shockingly resonant plot (for our modern age) -- I can't recommend it enough.

    Is the humor closer to Superman II or Superman III?

    Both the first and second films, the first as in we get a lot of verbal humor and the second as we get plenty of physical humor (think Krypto).
  • AgentM72AgentM72
    edited July 11 Posts: 866
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    Saw it last night as well and couldn't agree more with the prevailing sentiment. By far the most fun I've had in a cinema in a long time.

    I'm a massive fan of Superman going back to childhood, the Donner movies + Williams score are my touchstone, and I *adored* this film. In many ways it's nothing like Donner's take -- it's far sillier, pure comic book craziness, even down to technical aspects like structure, pacing, narrative flexibility, and certainly visual style. But there's just such an incredible tonal bulls-eye that feels unequivocally like Superman should feel.

    It's one of those "two hours feels like twenty minutes" films, in the best possible way. I'm seeing it again in IMAX tonight and can't wait.

    If you want a fun Superman movie that feels like a comic book movie come to life -- with a shockingly resonant plot (for our modern age) -- I can't recommend it enough.

    Is the humor closer to Superman II or Superman III?

    Both the first and second films, the first as in we get a lot of verbal humor and the second as we get plenty of physical humor (think Krypto).

    Then I would say...both?

    People are latching on to this 'Gunn humour' term and frankly, speaking as a writer, I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. Does it mean funny? Gunn is very adept at humanizing characters in extreme situation with dialogue inflections and energetic banter, so in that spirit, I'd say yes - Superman very much continues his tradition.

    Addressing @DEKE_RIVERS' question specifically, I caught a few flashes of humour which indeed made me think of both Superman sequels from the Donner era. More in the way this film earnestly embraces silliness and absurdity at times, but never gets too far away from the emotional throughline under it all.

    All I can say is I laughed frequently and consistently, and so did the audience I saw it with.
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