Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited July 4 Posts: 662
    It's really cool that you know how I felt watching the movie better than I did.
    Thankyou
    Except, you don't. At no point while watching Spectre I felt any stakes. Neither the villain or his organization ever felt dangerous at all to me, even less so after all the "author of all your pain", "daddy loved you more", "look at these beautiful pictures of people from your past - except Mathis for some reason - which I hang on the wall because that's the most evil stuff I will do" stuff.

    At no point I expected any specific characters to be killed, but I kept expecting something to happen. Yet the film kept toying with interesting ideas (Spectre being some kind of Big Brother, Bond falling in love, Bond and Blofeld's shared past, Quantum becoming Spectre) but it never commited to them and ultimately fell flat.
    We are in agreement then, the lack of stakes was due to the villain not having a decent grand scheme, not because of the lack of an ally or love interest character being killed off.
    It's quite telling that SP defenders can only defend it by attacking the people who disliked the movie, that proves it is a movie with few redeeming qualities.
    I'm not a "SP defender", someone can disagree with your view without holding the complete opposite one.

  • Posts: 722
    007HallY wrote: »
    The sacrificial lamb in Bond isn’t new by any means. All of Connery’s films from GF onwards had secondary Bond girls written specifically to die at some point! Throw in allies to that category as well and it’s a pretty standard Bond movie trope. Craig’s films emphasised the fact that women especially could die because of Bond which gave the death of Fields, Solonge, and Severine a weight to them, and I think that’s a legitimate decision. I do agree by SP the supporting women/leads tend to live, and that feels equally conscious (obviously you don’t want to repeat yourself, and to some extent it’s a subversion of expectations).

    For me, it gives the idea that Bond’s profession is full of death. Whether it’s through players consciously getting involved (ie. M, Mathis, and Leiter) or those who cross paths with Bond due to circumstance (Solonge or Severine). I think it gives the stories a weight personally. I think certainly when you kill off M (a character in Bond who doesn’t usually die) or even Felix that sense is felt. For what it’s worth that’s a sense I got in many of Fleming’s novels with Bond’s reflections on death.
    I don't object to seeing death in a Bond adventure because it is supposed to be a dangerous situation, but killing an M or a Tracy or a Vesper should be a once in a while thing and not something you do all the time for the best impact, I think most of us can agree on that. Otherwise every Bond entry we'd have to guess someone from MI6 is gonna bite the dust, which seems a bit absurd.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,700
    In the new era, everyone will be safe for a while. They have to establish this new Bond, so killing off anyone from the Mi6 family seems far-fetched (unless it’s a C type baddie).

    And I’d guess the historic go-to sacrificial lamb, a Bond woman, will be seen less and less at the altar. After Severine, it’s not as chic, nor appetizing to do away with a woman character.

    That leaves an ally of Bond to take-on this duty. I’d say any Mathis-like characters will have to watch their backs from here on out.
  • Posts: 599
    I just watched 28 Years Later, and let me just say that Aaron Taylor-Johnson's voice was perfect in it. Everyone worried about his voice should watch this movie!
  • Posts: 5,556
    007HallY wrote: »
    The sacrificial lamb in Bond isn’t new by any means. All of Connery’s films from GF onwards had secondary Bond girls written specifically to die at some point! Throw in allies to that category as well and it’s a pretty standard Bond movie trope. Craig’s films emphasised the fact that women especially could die because of Bond which gave the death of Fields, Solonge, and Severine a weight to them, and I think that’s a legitimate decision. I do agree by SP the supporting women/leads tend to live, and that feels equally conscious (obviously you don’t want to repeat yourself, and to some extent it’s a subversion of expectations).

    For me, it gives the idea that Bond’s profession is full of death. Whether it’s through players consciously getting involved (ie. M, Mathis, and Leiter) or those who cross paths with Bond due to circumstance (Solonge or Severine). I think it gives the stories a weight personally. I think certainly when you kill off M (a character in Bond who doesn’t usually die) or even Felix that sense is felt. For what it’s worth that’s a sense I got in many of Fleming’s novels with Bond’s reflections on death.
    I don't object to seeing death in a Bond adventure because it is supposed to be a dangerous situation, but killing an M or a Tracy or a Vesper should be a once in a while thing and not something you do all the time for the best impact, I think most of us can agree on that. Otherwise every Bond entry we'd have to guess someone from MI6 is gonna bite the dust, which seems a bit absurd.

    Sure. The love of Bond’s life or long running characters dying shouldn’t always be a thing. But there is a lot of death in Bond, and to some extent you’re always wondering which of Bond’s allies or even love interest is going to make it in each film.
    peter wrote: »
    In the new era, everyone will be safe for a while. They have to establish this new Bond, so killing off anyone from the Mi6 family seems far-fetched (unless it’s a C type baddie).

    And I’d guess the historic go-to sacrificial lamb, a Bond woman, will be seen less and less at the altar. After Severine, it’s not as chic, nor appetizing to do away with a woman character.

    That leaves an ally of Bond to take-on this duty. I’d say any Mathis-like characters will have to watch their backs from here on out.

    I suppose to do something different with even that expectation you could have a Bond ally meet a gruesome fate that completely changes them, but doesn’t kill them. I’m thinking of Mathis in one of Raymond Benson’s novels being tortured to make him go blind. Or of course Felix Leiter getting mauled by sharks. Could be quite interesting and show how dangerous Bond’s world is.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,467
    I guess you could open with it in a way: the old M gets assassinated so a new M decides to invent/reactivate the Double 0 section.
  • edited July 5 Posts: 6,906
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess you could open with it in a way: the old M gets assassinated so a new M decides to invent/reactivate the Double 0 section.

    Love it. How original. Nicely done :) A twist on our expectations, right from the get go.
  • ArapahoeBondFanArapahoeBondFan Colorado
    Posts: 131
    I just watched 28 Years Later, and let me just say that Aaron Taylor-Johnson's voice was perfect in it. Everyone worried about his voice should watch this movie!

    My biggest concern. You have convinced me to watch it.
  • Posts: 6,906
    I just watched 28 Years Later, and let me just say that Aaron Taylor-Johnson's voice was perfect in it. Everyone worried about his voice should watch this movie!

    Cool, now if only he could stop being a ridiculous pony haired buffoon...
  • Posts: 1,757
    Univex wrote: »
    I just watched 28 Years Later, and let me just say that Aaron Taylor-Johnson's voice was perfect in it. Everyone worried about his voice should watch this movie!

    Cool, now if only he could stop being a ridiculous pony haired buffoon...

    When he accepts voice work to portray Mickey Mouse the question of whether his voice is OK for Bond will be asked no more. As for pony-haired buffoon, that won't stop. His proponents and he seem to think his hair is one of his greatest assets.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    Posts: 821
    Univex wrote: »
    Cool, now if only he could stop being a ridiculous pony haired buffoon...
    Since62 wrote: »
    As for pony-haired buffoon, that won't stop. His proponents and he seem to think his hair is one of his greatest assets.

    I'm not an ATJ advocate at all, but there is such as thing as... a haircut.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 1,088
    When he cuts his hair short, then you can begin to worry that he’s got the job.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,467
    I think if you're an actor between jobs it sort of makes sense to grow your hair long as your next role might require hair of a certain length.

    Has Damson Idris come up? Good-looking British lead actor of the right age, I guess he should be in the mix.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,289
    I've not seen 28 Years Later, so can't comment on the improvements to ATJ's voice in that, and he'd maybe need to be trained out of that occasional gurning pout that he slips into but it does look like he could be scrubbed up into a more appropriate fit, tbf. Issues with the voice and smug pout aside, I can sort of see his potential as Bond in a post-Craig world. There's too much at stake to settle for 'sort of', though, right?

    Aaron-Taylor-Johnson-Shaves-Beard-080124-tout-889795391f2240088c710c3297e64be8.jpg
  • edited 2:23pm Posts: 5,556
    Well, Craig and Brosnan pouted too (and yes, even Connery too to a lesser extent with his duck mouth). Moore could come off as a bit smug to some, as could Brosnan. And it’s not unheard of for a Bond actor to look scruffy when not doing a film - most actors are unshaven and grow out their hair between roles. I don’t think his voice is a big deal and actors can mould them to roles. None of those things are valid issues in themselves in my opinion.

    What concerns me is he’s not a very interesting actor. He’s had some great roles - leads in blockbusters and smaller budget films, and certainly interesting supporting roles - and I feel he’s been unmemorable in the majority of them at best, and quite disappointing at worst. That’s the dealbreaker for me.

    If he was picked I’d certainly give him the benefit of the doubt. But my instinct is stronger candidates could shine through.
  • edited 3:23pm Posts: 599
    Aaron Taylor-Johnson OOZES Bondian alpha manliness in 28 Years Later. He was born to play Bond.
  • Posts: 203
    "It's in the eyes, Chico." They should say 'Ive killed for my country'. He'd probably make a decent villain.
  • Posts: 2,615
    007HallY wrote: »
    Well, Craig and Brosnan pouted too (and yes, even Connery too to a lesser extent with his duck mouth).

    Terence Young called it Connery’s “Frog” face. Whenever he saw it he’d comment “Sean…Frog!” and Connery would immediately correct it.
  • edited 4:47pm Posts: 5,556
    007HallY wrote: »
    Well, Craig and Brosnan pouted too (and yes, even Connery too to a lesser extent with his duck mouth).

    Terence Young called it Connery’s “Frog” face. Whenever he saw it he’d comment “Sean…Frog!” and Connery would immediately correct it.

    That's it, haha. That's in the old Criterion commentaries isn't it? The ones supposedly banned but are all online (and actually quite interesting). Sounds weird but with young Connery you notice the creases on both side of his cheeks and quite full lips that give him that 'duck's mouth' (at least in my opinion). Not a criticism at all, and I think it's what gave him a really cool wry smile.

    Personally I like when an actor has an interesting face and has those little quirks (again, Craig and Brosnan had it with their pouting, and actually I'd say it gives the impression both have the 'cruel' mouths of Fleming's Bond. No idea if it's more conscious on ATJ's part or if it's just an affliction).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,700
    No idea if it's more conscious on ATJ's part or if it's just an affliction).

    An affliction of great vanity….!

    If this guy is chosen and he’s to be an ambassador for the next decade or more, he really needs to clean up his public persona. He comes off as a jack ass.

    He’s probably as nice as pie, but his persona needs some work. A lot of work.

    On top of that, his acting isn’t bad, but, like many have complained repeatedly, he’s somehow very forgettable. I can’t explain it, other than to say it must be a lack of big movie star charisma.
  • Posts: 599
    peter wrote: »
    he really needs to clean up his public persona.

    Pascal and Heyman can fix it.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,141
    mtm wrote: »

    Has Damson Idris come up? Good-looking British lead actor of the right age, I guess he should be in the mix.
    Damson will be too busy as it's heavily rumoured he'll be cast as the new T'Challa/Black Panther.
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