Share your story ideas for BOND 26

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  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 5,059
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I'm back! Anyway, got an idea for a Bond plot, I know this may remind of a film, but anyway.....

    Just thought of it, a high profile, beloved celebrity (name anyone you liked who could fit that image, could be an actor, a musician or any personality), with a hidden agendas to establish his political agendas for world domination.

    Now, he has a great image, great public following and flawless reputation and influential, any people who have done it wrong tend to be hated by the public and got persecuted, so Bond would be walking on thin ice here, he can't defeat this man easily or else, his name would be cursed by the whole world, because that villain is a well beloved celebrity that he had got them brainwashed that no accusations against him have the public sided with, and he could even turn tables against his enemies.

    Think of the Jake Gyllenhaal's character as Mysterio in 'SpiderMan: No Way Home', that could've happened to Bond if he had done the wrong move or fail, think of how Mysterio got the public sympathy and turned their hatred towards Peter Parker that it almost ruined his life, it could've happened to Bond.

    I will leave to all of you the possible plots the villain could do, but it should be something that's realistic, yet menacing, maybe Smuggling, Internal Organs Blackmarket or such.
    mtm wrote: »
    It would be quite interesting to see a Bond vs. the public, or at least public opinion story, yeah.

    Maybe we could have a new version of Elliot Carver, except this one is in charge of a large social media company which steers the public discourse through a bent algorithm and promoting posts to further his own agenda. Maybe he could even out Bond on there and make him infamous as an enemy of the people. What then?
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    It doesn't need to be another version of Elliot Carver, more like a beloved public figure with a hidden agenda with possibly, a tendency of making himself out to be a victim to turn the tables against Bond (no villains in the series have done this kind of tactic/strategy, as far as I know), to ask sympathy from the people, like Mysterio from Spider Man, just in the same vein as that, trying to make Bond the villain in the eyes of the people, as he continue to accomplish his evil plans that the public doesn't realize, it would serve as a distraction so Bond couldn't be able to defeat him and he would still earn such publicity from people, while still doing his plans.
    More like a villain with a strong PR and very influential (a mix up between Gustav Graves/Max Zorin/Elektra King/Elliot Carver type).

    Just imagine him trying to ruin Bond in media, speak of him very badly in interviews or something like that to brainwash people and gain sympathy to attack Bond, and Bond, watching the interview on TV while he's in a hotel room, drinking his Martini or something, and he would be left shock due to the accusations and claims the villain are making out against him in public.

    A celebrity with secret Political ties for example, Bond trying to thwart it, but this villain would use the public (that he brainwashed) against Bond, it could be a very famous actor, or a musician (a critically acclaimed composer, for example), an award winning famous director, an F1 Sports Racer champion with great appeal and good looks, and adored by many (many stars of today were billionaires for example, so it's a bit plausible if applying real life scenario).

    But behind that well beloved persona is a maniacal villain, something like that.

    I would also propose that Bond would have an ally in this, those one of the people who tried to attack that villain by releasing the truth (against his plot as well) but he or she failed and that villain used his influence to put him or her in jail, that Bond ally is well disliked by the public because he/she tried to ruin the reputation of their beloved celebrity, and now this celebrity villain has been making fake accusations against that would be ally of Bond's more to further worsen his/her cases, Bond would help that person and would team up against that Celebrity villain.

    I like all of these ideas. Fake media is one of the biggest problems in the world now. Elliot Carver and his type of people are the Bond villains of the world now.
    I asked ChatGPT for a reboot and it came up with this. Personally, I like it.....

    Pitch: James Bond: Bloodline

    This origin story reimagines the young James Bond as a skilled but impulsive officer in the Royal Navy. On a covert mission to stop the hijacking of a British naval vessel, Bond uncovers evidence linking the operation to a shadowy figure with ties to his parents' deaths. MI6 takes notice of his bold performance and recruits him to investigate further, setting him on a path that will forever change his life. As Bond delves deeper, he uncovers a shocking truth: his father, Andrew Bond, long presumed dead after a climbing accident, is alive—and is the mastermind behind a global criminal syndicate.

    Andrew Bond is a brilliant but disillusioned former intelligence operative who faked his death after losing faith in the British government. Embittered by betrayal and driven by a warped sense of justice, he has spent years orchestrating a series of attacks aimed at destabilising the geopolitical order. To Andrew, his actions are righteous rebellion; to James, they are unforgivable. Their eventual confrontation forces James to grapple with the legacy of his family, his father’s twisted ideals, and his own morality.

    The story introduces Sofia Marchetti, an undercover operative posing as a journalist, who becomes Bond’s ally—and moral compass—throughout the mission. A seasoned investigator, Sofia has her own reasons for pursuing Andrew Bond, as his actions indirectly led to the death of her brother. Her sharp instincts and calm pragmatism contrast with Bond’s youthful recklessness, creating tension and mutual respect that evolves into a deep connection.

    In the climactic showdown, James faces his father in an emotional confrontation at an isolated, snow-covered mountain base. Andrew, seeking to manipulate James into joining his cause, reveals that the "accident" that killed James’s mother was no accident—it was Andrew’s desperate attempt to silence her after she threatened to expose his plans. In the heat of battle, James is forced to kill his father.

    The mission complete, Bond returns to MI6, scarred but resolute. Recognising his potential and his resilience in the face of impossible choices, M offers him the coveted 00 status. The film ends with Bond standing in a tailor’s shop, gazing at his reflection as he dons his first tuxedo, ready to take on his first mission as 007.

    mxw9Z0f.png

    I like that idea, in more ways than one. However, one of the only flaws is the family themes. DC's era over did the family theme in most ways possible, that even the general audience will get tired of it. It would be an interesting origin story though. Jeffery Deaver did something similar with Monique Bond as a Soviet Spy in Carte Blanche.
  • Posts: 11
    Here’s what I think:

    An assassin targets, and succeeds, in killing every 00 agent except Bond. MI6 grievously mourns those fallen, but assigns these new 00 agents to the cases their predecessors were working on, until tragedy strikes again, with everybody except Bond perishing.

    MI6 then furiously demands answers and sends Bond out to investigate deaths and going to the locations of the other cases - with MI6 deciding they will not forget whom they are pursuing, but before they need to save the world, they decide to save themselves and pause the missions they are on after no leads turn up.

    Bond, meanwhile, decided to pursue and discovers the perpetrator of these murders, and his would-be assassin, and discovers it’s someone not on MI6’s radar. This person is an owner of a drug business, who uses a front for his activities. It turns out, the assassin has no ill will towards MI6, but is close with an MI6 agent recently promoted to a 00, and the killings happened to stop after these new wave of promotions.

    The assassin and this MI6 agent served and roomed together in the British Royal Navy. This MI6 agent passed numerous tests, checked off lots of boxes, yet kept getting passed over for the 00 promotion. So, he decided to turn against his organization and seek out this assassin’s help in exchange for being a funder of his drug business.

    Bond dispatches of the assassin, and the hunt for this new, treacherous 00, is on.
  • BMT164BMT164 So Cal
    Posts: 7
    Start new Bond with old Bond… not nttd recently retired Bond, Bond is older gray living in luxury Bond , movie opens up with the personal garage the cars old and new the DB5 close up of the wheel of the Db5 panning to the car and others the BMW Z8, and a new Bentley or Aston and an SUV the garage is full on luxury with the special lighting , the walls covered with the cabinets very high end, move up stairs background is Bond voice talking on phone is his home office of view from home of Lake Como or some such Villa he is reviewing the spec for his boat. Bonds tablet is on the desk, message pops up …”secure message “. We still hear the boat conversation, the cell phone, but not the face of Bond, the desk has all the cool stuff the Mont Blanc pens, the special note cards with “Commander Bond”engraved, that old bulldog , lagonile wine cork puller, fly reel, shotgun shells next to leather shell skeet shell bag, Macallen bottle, plenty of product placement, Bond pulls a book from the desk, opens it to find a special cell phone with limited buttons, the boat call ends, Bond use the phone it connects and he repeats “ black ops in Ukraine (or wherever )not for me these days but”…
    The Bond opening gun barrel and music, credits so on, return to movie it’s a young Naval officer in uniform coming a shore from destroyer or submarine, scene time travel to back 40-50 years this is young Bond he reports to his base and immediately is summoned to meeting with now stuffy people in regular suits introduced as MI6 requesting the young Bond to lead a team on ops mission in Middle East, details for mission find the kingpin of drug ring who uses Oil Barron family wealth as disguise cover for his drug operations. Of course if mission fails the government takes no responsibility. Lots of detail here to get to mission and team, part of the team is CIA agent Leiter who he meets at the mission destination. Bond is not 007.

    This is the throw back development of the mission interspaced with some voice over of old Bond waxing as if he’s on that same phone call.

    During the mission Bond and crew learn the interworking of the oil kings family, the whole oil riches game where the money is hidden, the graft around the politics of the Middle East, this becomes an intelligence play with his team of analysts 1- scientist( future Q)1- code breaker(future moneypenny?) all are young , Leiter and Bond. Turns out most of the oil money is being laundered through trade diamonds and gold bars ( future tie for next movies, introduce characters near end of movie), Bond is forced to kidnap the supposed drug ring leaders son of oil Barron and transport back to England …it does not go well, Bond and team are rookies, smart but crude. Communication is circa mid 80s as is the setting. They steal a Toyota Land Cruiser of the era as get away vehicle looking to find an airfield , gun fire -all that eschews in the chase, no google maps here, old bond is telling the story the lack of intell, how the crew was thrown to the wolves set up to fail…they find an airport Lear is open staircase down, of course it’s guarded, sultan of something… on board as the find their way in, bond takes the cockpit asked by Felix “have you ever flown one of these? ( take from his line in nttd), no first time” answer. Plenty of ground fire, action as plane takes off. Banter during the flight, the sultan finally ask why his rivals son is being kidnapped by British military, Felix explains with little detail, kid is asking for help from the sultan, sultan takes advantage to reveal details about the graft and the plot to build an oil consortium ( future opec with evil intentions), sultan is not what he seems , all sets up future bond 27,28…voice over “the key to the mission was Dilobi he was not what he seemed”

    Bond faces a serious dress down back in England by navy higher ups, and those same MI6 guys in suits. They wonder aloud why the have a son of a oil Barron and nothing else but this story of drugs, diamonds and gold), it takes a low level mi6 agent ( future M) to breakdown what bond and crew have done, not everyone buys it, the ask Bond to find the sultan from plane for interrogation. They lost that guy when they got to England ( flashback to that moment sultan sneaks away during exit from plane at military airfield in England, somehow a truck was waiting.)
    Bond works a lead from low level mi6 guy and with Felix tracks the guy down to small community in England, its tough to hide a sultan, but after some spirited discussion the sultan wants a play to gain back his position that the oil baron took years ago exchange is the true details on the drugs, diamonds, gold and underworld. The sultan is Dilobi. This leads to more intrigue and set up for Bond becoming 007.

    The concept is a set up of old to new, pierce would be an ideal old bond, the voice alone would be dramatic and nostalgic, but critics abound on him, new young bond could be Aaron Taylor or if younger pierce son? This needs a lot of work, I’ve shared the idea on different string but less thought out and pre Amazon recent moves. Bringing in a new generation of Bond fans will need as much storyline, with modern hooks ensemble, world events, England and its struggles in world economics, lots to wrap up.
    Ends with voice over wrapping up the mission , and young bond handed a 00 status acknowledgement.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,953
    My idea for the next Bond film, the characters were unnamed though, and I didn't put any actor as Bond.

    Pre Title Sequence:
    Create a mystery: It would start a chase scene in Columbia, between a two motorcycle riders (one happened to be a Double O agent due to the MI6 team contacting him via an earpiece) and the other one is a villain, there would be exchanges of bullet shots, and the Double O Agent happened to shot one of the tires of the villain, flattening the tire, the villain had lost his balance and crushed his motorcycle, resulting in explosion.
    Days later, that Double Agent whom the people assumed by this time to be 007, was about to walk in to submit a report about that recent mission, but before he entered in, a group of army entered the building, as it's revealed that Moneypenny (played by Naomie Harris) had been shot dead, along with Q (played by Ben Whishaw)

    -This is a good way to make a farewell to those supporting casts of the Craig Era, and transitioning to new ones in this new era of Bond

    The Agent whom the people assumed to be 007, was actually revealed to be 003 (due to one of the MI6 staffs calling him) and telling him that the man behind the attack was no other than, 007, yep.

    Opening scene (after the PTS):
    The MI6 tried to find 007, after the evidences came out of him admitting that he's the one who killed Moneypenny and Q (according to the letter he left with his name on it, 'James Bond, 007'), and even alerting MI5, GCHQ, and the Scotland Yard to do a manhunt operation to arrest Bond, 003 also helped, there's already a new Moneypenny and Q (new actors for new Bond era).

    Meanwhile, after a long investigation, 003 is the first one to caught James Bond before the other agencies (the face reveal of the new Bond actor would take place in a dark alley as 003 got him cornered, as he revealed himself coming out of the shadows, surrendering himself), 003 interrogated Bond of "why he killed Moneypenny and Q, why he gone to the other side of things?" To which, in surprise, Bond denied the truth, and said that he have been out of the service for so long and resting after the events of the previous mission (this is a reference to what happened in No Time To Die), in short, Bond gone AWOL, 003 was skeptical and showed Bond the assassinations and the letter to which left Bond shocked and angry, 003 was getting more confused at the turn of events, if that's not Bond, then who? Someone's pretending to be James Bond?

    Middle Scene:
    Bond tried to prove his innocence, even showing the scars that he got from the previous mission, 003, although remained skeptical, was half convinced that Bond was telling the truth but he still kept his eyes on him, telling Bond that "you're still under my jurisdiction, therefore, I should keep my eyes on you", to which Bond, although disappointed, yet agreed.
    As the two worked together and investigate the case, while in the club with 003, Bond met a girl there (his Bond Girl), the two flirted together, 003 noticed this and asked Bond that "how come at his age that he is still not married yet?" To which Bond replied of due to the service, after Bond and the Bond Girl spent the night and slept together, the Bond Girl caught Bond leaving that morning, with Bond making an excuse that "his job needs him" to which the girl was emotionally hurt, as she insisted him to stay, but Bond left.

    As Bond and 003 continued their investigation, 003 is starting to convince that Bond is actually innocent, but the MI5 got a glimpse of Bond with 003 and alerted anyone, there would be a car chase (with Bond driving and 003 at the passenger seat) while MI5 and the Police all chasing them, the report reached the MI6 and called the other agents to hunt down Bond but told them to spare 003 (as he's the one handling Bond's case), as the car chase continues, Bond and 003 saw many bullets flying out of nowhere and killing the Police and some MI5 agents, when all of them died, a man appeared, he very much looked like Bond! Almost could be his identical twin! It's revealed that the Bond lookalike was actually the motorcycle rider at the beginning whom 003 was chasing and thought was dead, but actually survived and undergone a plastic surgery to look like Bond, Bond recognizes the man (as the two actually met before in an operation, long before 003, as the Bond lookalike showed the old bullet from Bond that nearly got him and dropped it on the floor), and admitted that he killed Moneypenny and Q, as 003 is about to get him, the Bond lookalike pointed at the upcoming Police and MI5 men from a far, leaving his word of "these (referring to the killed Policemen and the MI5 agents that he killed), all of these, they would all be your fault!" (He looked especially at Bond), as 003 and Bond turned to see the authorities approaching, the Bond lookalike suddenly vanished, as before they escaped, the authorities have got them both cornered and arrested Bond, as Bond was brought to the interrogation room where he met there the new Moneypenny, new Q, and of course, M.

    Meanwhile, cut to scene where the girl whom Bond left after a one night was, unknowingly, got met by the Bond lookalike, the girl slapped him on the face, to which he showed empathy, apologizes and finally got the girl's forgiveness, the Bond lookalike explained to the girl that he could help her get her revenge as making it out that the original Bond is "his twin brother", the girl accepted.

    Meanwhile, while the original Bond is trying to prove his innocence, 003 is also talking some sense to M that Bond is innocent and that he has a lookalike, an imposter, M was skeptical and shook his head at him, not believing his words, as 003 is already doing his best to defend Bond such as "with his years of loyalty to this institution, he dedicated his entire life to this bloody Government, do you think he would've done it after all of he have done?!" To which M replied: "It happens all the time, this institution is a penitentiary to our men that they're paying their dues through retribution, maybe you're going to be the same, 003, based on how you're defending him" (accusing 003 of going to Bond's side and against MI6).
    As 003 talked to Bond, as Bond told 003 to "let things be as it is until the truth will reveal itself", as Bond was sent to Belmarsh (the prison where Blofeld was imprisoned in No Time To Die), as the next night, 003 was on his way to visit Bond, but got attacked by the Bond lookalike and the Bond Girl whose hungry for revenge, 003 laid on the ground as the Bond lookalike punched him and kicked him many times, even shooting him, but luckily, he dodged the bullet and played dead until the two left.

    In Belmarsh, Bond got visited by the lawyer 003 contacted to help him, she's a woman, as the two connected into each other due to the nature of their jobs (she told her backstory of how many enemies of her clients have tried to kill her in the past due to the cases she's handling related to some Government officials she's handling).

    In the initial hearing, the Bond lookalike told the villainess Bond Girl to be a look out at Belmarsh, she disguised herself, and upon Bond's release from the prison to the security vehicle along with his lawyer (the good Bond Girl), the villainess Bond Girl got more angry, as she followed them to the court (through a taxi), and it led to an eventual encounter between the two at the Court's comfort room where the villainess, in a subtle way, confronted the lawyer, and made an attempt to brainwash the lawyer about how evil Bond is (the original one), to which the lawyer just shrugged it off, telling that "she's only doing her job as a lawyer to her client", as the villainess called the Bond lookalike at the telephone booth and reported of what happened.

    As the initial hearing ended, upon Bond's return to Belmarsh, the lawyer opened the encounter she had with that villainess to which worried Bond, and told the lawyer to "stay out of any trouble, including that woman", the lawyer asked, as Bond just replied "she's up to no good, she's out to spread false accusations against me, she wanted revenge", and as Bond was brought back to his jail room, the authorities left, only Bond and the lawyer, seeing how nice Bond is, as Bond told the truth of how he was framed up and it's done by his lookalike, the lawyer became worried of him and their connection went deeper, ending their meeting in a hug and kiss.

    As the lawyer visited 003 at the hospital, resting, the two talked about Bond's case, as they've talked about the imposter that Bond mentioned who have framed him up, as 003 told her to do her best as a lawyer to prove Bond's innocence, as the Bond lookalike also hid and stayed in silence as to keep the charade that it's Bond who have the done the crimes and those stopped when he's got arrested.

    That night, the Bond lookalike's plan (as he revealed to the villainess) is to have the original Bond killed, so he would take his place and his identity and destroy MI6 for what they've done to him and sabotaging the syndicate he's working for (the logo of the syndicate was shown at the board), so the former motorcycle rider who became a Bond lookalike was just a henchman of a bigger syndicate. At the final hearing, Bond was released from the prison to the security vehicle with the lawyer as they're on their way to the court, the Bond lookalike and the villainess followed them through their car, but still keeping their distance from the convoy.

    As they went to the court, the Bond lookalike arranged his position as a sniper to kill Bond, as the final verdict is about to turn against Bond, the sniper is already in position ready to fire, as the Bond lookalike pulled the trigger, one of the person inside the court have seen the red laser light at Bond's temple, he ran and got shot at the back of his arm, leading to a commotion, a bunch of Policemen went to the area, and start finding the sniper, as the Bond lookalike was desperate at the situation, he started just shooting the entire courtroom, hoping to ensure Bond's death, as Bond finally got free, and grabbed one of the policeman's gun and started running outside the court, as the villainess went inside the court finding Bond (who managed to got out) holding a gun, but she encountered the lawyer again, and the two confronted each other, with the villainess that "And you fell in love, for such a Professional", to which the lawyer answered "as long as both of you connect" and it angered the villainess as they've fought, as another new backup of Policemen are coming and she's arrested.

    Meanwhile, as the original Bond was searching for his lookalike, the lookalike whistled and teasing him through the echoes of his voice, as if playing tricks with Bond, as Bond shouted to his lookalike to reveal himself and don't be a coward, to which the echoes of the lookalike's voice teased him that it's Bond himself who is the coward as it shows to his face, the fear, as the lookalike have set the whole building under construction on fire with his lighter lighting a fire towards the electrical wires, the fire started, and the lookalike escaped, whom Bond seen from a far, he chased him and it led to Bond clutching him, the two fought, and as he's about to kill him, the Police are already approaching their location, Bond told him to surrender and decided not to kill him, but upon him turning his back, the lookalike stood up and got him into a furious embrace behind him as he's trying to reach out for his gun (which Bond is holding), as he took the gun from Bond's hands, he saw the Police approaching, the imposter/lookalike looked at Bond, smirked, and said in his low voice, "not me", before shooting himself, successfully avoiding his arrest, but he's dead.

    As at the MI6, Bond was reinstated as a 00 agent and M apologized to him, as he reconciled with the new Moneypenny and Q, as he visited 003 at the hospital where there's also the Lawyer, as Bond and 003 made some great banter back and forth, ending with Bond thanking 003 for understanding, as Bond and the lawyer revealed their relationship to 003, as the lawyer and Bond walked out of the hospital, got into Bond's car as they drive away.

  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 590
    I'd remake Quantum of Solace
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited May 20 Posts: 598
    After all the personal melodrama of the Craig years, I think it would be refreshing for the next Bond film to dispense with the emotional baggage and take a break from the angst and the soap.

    Just establish who the new James Bond is "in the now", via his actions in the present, and not delve into "the why" of how he became the way he is until a later edition.

    For me, the most important ingredient to get right is the villain.

    He or she needs to have strong personal charisma and be shown to present a credible mental and physical challenge for Bond, or have henchmen / women who do. Then both villain and minions must be allowed to demonstrate their high threat level via their onscreen actions. And those actions need to display intellegence and subtlety, not just impulsive, brainless violence.

    It might also be a wise idea to not link the plot to current political issues, QoS being a good example of how trying to introduce an element of "eco politics" produced an underwhelming result, ditto TND where I found the whole Media Mogal premise unconvincing.

    Recently there have been a number of movies that tried to use snotty nosed, self entitled Tech billionaires as villains but I don't find them to be enough of a threat for the hero to play against.

    The public may not like aspects of big business, big media, big tech, big banks etc but they are too amporphous for James Bond to tackle

    Of course it's always easier to recall what you don't want to see again, than to come up with something new... But on the other hand, if we don't learn from history we are apparently doomed to repeat it

    Review the recent past then

    Casino Royale - Not much of a grand scheme, but a charismatic villain and a very personal confrontation - people loved it

    QoS - An amporphous Organisation with an underwhelming villain and an unispiring scheme, to control a water supply, that few in the audience could really relate to - people were not excited

    Skyfall - Charismatic villain with a revenge motive resulting in a very personal confrontation - people loved it

    SPECTRE - An attempt to tie up the loose ends from QoS, a pivotal plot element embarrassingly cribbed from Austin Powers, a villain who divided opinion (good actor but didn't impress as much without Tarantino writing his lines), personal revenge motive coupled with the previous amorphous grand scheme - mixed reception

    No Time To Die - More loose ends tidied up, quirky villain with a suitably grand scheme, although possibly not made clear enough, contovercial ending - released at a difficult time, so hard to access its success or failure, but mixed reception probably covers it.

    This tells me that audiences like a charasmatic villain who is a credible threat and has significant personal interactions with Bond, not necessarily physical, but more of a mental duel, and the "grand plan" itself is of less importance.

    Its impossible to keep upping the anti of World saving schemes without "jumping the shark" as Marvel are discovering now (and James Bond has discovered in the past) but the power of the charismatic actor remains strong, and new actors are always out there waiting to be identified by astute casting directors (at least until the time comes when AI generates an avatar that combines all the evil qualities of Christopher Lee, Javier Bardem, Mads Mikkelsen, Lee Marvin, Christopher Walken, John Malkovich, Lee van Cleef, Tele Savalas, Jack Palance, Dennis Hopper, Jack Elam, Neville Brand, Arthur Kennedy, Vic Morrow, Albert Salmi etc)
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 590
    Seve wrote: »
    After all the personal melodrama of the Craig years, I think it would be refreshing for the next Bond film to dispense with the emotional baggage and take a break from the angst and the soap.

    Just establish who the new James Bond is "in the now", via his actions in the present, and not delve into "the why" of how he became the way he is until a later edition.

    For me, the most important ingredient to get right is the villain.

    He or she needs to have strong personal charisma and be shown to present a credible mental and physical challenge for Bond, or have henchmen / women who do. Then both villain and minions must be allowed to demonstrate their high threat level via their onscreen actions. And those actions need to display intellegence and subtlety, not just impulsive, brainless violence.

    It might also be a wise idea to not link the plot to current political issues, QoS being a good example of how trying to introduce an element of "eco politics" produced an underwhelming result, ditto TND where I found the whole Media Mogal premise unconvincing.

    Recently there have been a number of movies that tried to use snotty nosed, self entitled Tech billionaires as villains but I don't find them to be enough of a threat for the hero to play against.

    The public may not like aspects of big business, big media, big tech, big banks etc but they are too amporphous for James Bond to tackle

    Of course it's always easier to recall what you don't want to see again, than to come up with something new... But on the other hand, if we don't learn from history we are apparently doomed to repeat it

    Review the recent past then

    Casino Royale - Not much of a grand scheme, but a charismatic villain and a very personal confrontation - people loved it

    QoS - An amporphous Organisation with an underwhelming villain and an unispiring scheme, to control a water supply, that few in the audience could really relate to - people were not excited

    Skyfall - Charismatic villain with a revenge motive resulting in a very personal confrontation - people loved it

    SPECTRE - An attempt to tie up the loose ends from QoS, a pivotal plot element embarrassingly cribbed from Austin Powers, a villain who divided opinion (good actor but didn't impress as much without Tarantino writing his lines), personal revenge motive coupled with the previous amorphous grand scheme - mixed reception

    No Time To Die - More loose ends tidied up, quirky villain with a suitably grand scheme, although possibly not made clear enough, contovercial ending - released at a difficult time, so hard to access its success or failure, but mixed reception probably covers it.

    This tells me that audiences like a charasmatic villain who is a credible threat and has significant personal interactions with Bond, not necessarily physical, but more of a mental duel, and the "grand plan" itself is of less importance.

    Its impossible to keep upping the anti of World saving schemes without "jumping the shark" as Marvel are discovering now (and James Bond has discovered in the past) but the power of the charismatic actor remains strong, and new actors are always out there waiting to be identified by astute casting directors (at least until the time comes when AI generates an avatar that combines all the evil qualities of Christopher Lee, Javier Bardem, Mads Mikkelsen, Lee Marvin, Christopher Walken, John Malkovich, Lee van Cleef, Tele Savalas, Jack Palance, Dennis Hopper, Jack Elam, Neville Brand, Arthur Kennedy, Vic Morrow, Albert Salmi etc)

    QOS wasn't poor because of politics, it was poor because it was clearly underwritten.

    It had serious potential with its plot-line and could have made a substantial difference to the franchise's direction. Writing aside, it forgot to be any craic, which is unforgivable. TND is terrible but Pryce is amongst the best things about it (his kung-fu mimicry notwithstanding).

    Furthermore, relevance isn't a bad idea for a villain. Sanchez, possibly the greatest villain of them all, is clearly a take on Noriega. It can work, and we really don't need Big Name Actor to blow it all on.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited May 21 Posts: 598
    QOS wasn't poor because of politics, it was poor because it was clearly underwritten.

    It had serious potential with its plot-line and could have made a substantial difference to the franchise's direction. Writing aside, it forgot to be any craic, which is unforgivable. TND is terrible but Pryce is amongst the best things about it (his kung-fu mimicry notwithstanding).

    Furthermore, relevance isn't a bad idea for a villain. Sanchez, possibly the greatest villain of them all, is clearly a take on Noriega. It can work, and we really don't need Big Name Actor to blow it all on.

    Well, we all have our different preferences, I think the eco politics plotline was one of QoS many weaknesses, others of which you have highlighted

    I never suggested any need for a big name actor. The likes of Lee Marvin played the villain for over a decade before managing to cross over and become a "Hero" (or "Ant-Hero") and attaining greater fame and rewards

    Many of the other actors I cited are the same, few of them ever became "Big Names" but they all played memorable villains

    Sanchez is a great villain because of Robert Davis' performance, the way the part is written, and what he does to Felix Leiter. Being a Drug Lord was almost incidental and, as drugs had already formed a part of the plot in TLD, it was actually in danger of being over used, after featuring in two Bond movies in a row.

    Carver, on the other hand, I am unable to take seriously precisely because of Jonathan Pryce's overly comedic performance. I just don't find him to be a convincing threat to Bond and his evil scheme doesn't catch my imagination either.

    C'est la vie
  • Posts: 15,763
    Off topic, but I always found Carver to lack menace, but to be fun to watch. And I love him mocking Way Lin with his kung fu antics, although I'm conscious it gives him a disservice. Yes, that doesn't make him one bit scarier. But since I'm no big fan of martial action movies, I thought it was funny.
  • Posts: 2,104
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Off topic, but I always found Carver to lack menace, but to be fun to watch. And I love him mocking Way Lin with his kung fu antics, although I'm conscious it gives him a disservice. Yes, that doesn't make him one bit scarier. But since I'm no big fan of martial action movies, I thought it was funny.

    I don't think it would have worked in a serious tone. Carver is having a great time doing these silly things.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 598

    I don't think it would have worked in a serious tone. Carver is having a great time doing these silly things.

    IMHO there should be no room for "silly" in a James Bond movie
  • edited May 21 Posts: 15,763
    Seve wrote: »

    I don't think it would have worked in a serious tone. Carver is having a great time doing these silly things.

    IMHO there should be no room for "silly" in a James Bond movie

    I would tend to agree, and if Carver had been played by anyone else than Jonathan Pryce, I think I would have genuinely hated the film. I don't think it's a great Bond film, not even a very good one, but I enjoy Pryce in it.
  • Posts: 2,104
    Seve wrote: »

    I don't think it would have worked in a serious tone. Carver is having a great time doing these silly things.

    IMHO there should be no room for "silly" in a James Bond movie

    Wrong franchise, I guess.

    These movies come in all colors and sizes.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 598

    Wrong franchise, I guess.

    These movies come in all colors and sizes.

    They do, which makes for a broad fan base and plenty of lively discussion

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited May 22 Posts: 3,953
    Even the most serious films have still light-hearted moments in them (mostly in dialogues or some little and subtle moments), but again, it doesn't need to go back to the Roger Moore Era route, just the right balance, or dare I say it, realistic (realistic not in terms of seriousness but in terms of being balanced as John Denver once described the real life as: "some days are diamonds, some days are stones"), just like in reality of life, put it in right balance, not too much serious and not too much funny.
  • Quantum of Solace's plot lacks, not because of relevance to the world, but because of relevance to Bond. I never understand why Bond is helping conserve water in Bolivia. It's a cynical worldview but there's honestly no gain for Britain there and feels out of place for an MI6 agent to be involved in; it feels likes the sort of real life thing plenty of businesses get away with is ultimately more for activists and the regulators to take of.

    Ultimately, Bond's hatred of the villain and the organisation behind him gives the climax a punch. The stakes of the water are completely forgotten in the Perla las Dunas scene.

    I do think the next Bond film can take connection to reality and produce something great though: not even in a Trump/Musk/Putin way but in stories about things like oil smuggling and fraud at sea and shipping/trade routes or high-tech espionage or infrastructure sabotage.
  • edited May 22 Posts: 5,407
    I kind of like how it feels like Bond has genuinely gotten involved in a rather alien situation in QOS with the whole Bolivian water plot. It's not strictly speaking relevant to Britain, but Bond is just doing a job, he's been led here by following up on Greene, and he knows the whole business is shady. It helps that there's the clear through line of MI6 believing Bond has gone off the rails, and of course the underlying stuff with Vesper/Yussief (and the parallels with Camille seeking revenge) which means there's more going on to hone in on.

    It's a broad outline I'd be interested in seeing again in a Bond film - that's to say Bond is forced into something he wouldn't otherwise be involved in/might be outside MI6's authority.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 22 Posts: 18,249
    Quantum of Solace's plot lacks, not because of relevance to the world, but because of relevance to Bond. I never understand why Bond is helping conserve water in Bolivia. It's a cynical worldview but there's honestly no gain for Britain there and feels out of place for an MI6 agent to be involved in

    To be fair he does happily stroll past a village of people who are without water and decides not to tell them about a huge reservoir within walking distance :D
    007HallY wrote: »
    It's a broad outline I'd be interested in seeing again in a Bond film - that's to say Bond is forced into something he wouldn't otherwise be involved in/might be outside MI6's authority.

    That's an interesting thought, it would be good to hone in on that a bit. That he's got a particular and limited job to do, but a group of (not British) people will die if he doesn't help out and he has to make a choice. In a way it feels like a choice we've seen him make a lot of times before and M has never objected to, but there may be a way to make it more of a moral dilemma.
  • edited May 22 Posts: 5,407
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    It's a broad outline I'd be interested in seeing again in a Bond film - that's to say Bond is forced into something he wouldn't otherwise be involved in/might be outside MI6's authority.

    That's an interesting thought, it would be good to hone in on that a bit. That he's got a particular and limited job to do, but a group of (not British) people will die if he doesn't help out and he has to make a choice. In a way it feels like a choice we've seen him make a lot of times before and M has never objected to, but there may be a way to make it more of a moral dilemma.

    I guess it would have to be something personal so that he can be invested/make the choice to get involved.

    I dunno, maybe after the PTS we see Bond on leave somewhere, and he's approached by an old love interest from his past. She's tracked him down in order get his help as she's in trouble (obviously it'll be something involving the main villain - could be a GF type situation where they've cheated another character out of money and Bond has to figure it out). Maybe when running an initial check on the villain, Bond realises that this character has some sort of diplomatic immunity and MI6 can't officially go near him, but ultimately he decides to help the love interest on an 'off the books' mission (or at least for a portion of the film).

    Feels more like a second or third film than a Bond 26. It'd need to be ironed out, especially with the Bond girl/her relationship with Bond. But I can see it being a good inciting incident.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,249
    I'm kind of reminded of that bit in Temple of Doom where Indy has the sacred stones in his hands and turns to leave as he's got what he came for, but hears the screams of the imprisoned children in the mines below and turns back. Some sort of choice like that for him.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Quantum of Solace's plot lacks, not because of relevance to the world, but because of relevance to Bond. I never understand why Bond is helping conserve water in Bolivia. It's a cynical worldview but there's honestly no gain for Britain there and feels out of place for an MI6 agent to be involved in

    To be fair he does happily stroll past a village of people who are without water and decides not to tell them about a huge reservoir within walking distance :D

    Yes, exactly, that's my point. The plot of the film involves the water plot as an example of a scheme Bond has to stop, but he doesn't care enough to tell the village and we don't hear about what happened in Bolivia afterwards. All the other villain schemes rightfully get more focus and Bond stopping them is impactful, rather than a personal/organisational vendetta being expressed.

    It's a plot point that the film doesn't really care about, and neither Bond nor MI6 should care about. So why does it exist? If Greene was stealing oil and defrauding Britain or something I feel like it'd make more sense and then there could be a scene where M says Bond has received the thanks of the Foreign Secretary and Bond could be a bit cynical about the congratulation. While I do enjoy QoS, it could do without the Greene/Medrano Bolivia plot if it wasn't going to fully focus on it
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited May 22 Posts: 598
    mtm wrote: »

    I guess it depends how much is too much for people who say they should be standalone. I’d argue what you describe is basically what we got in the Craig films: it wasn’t a very elaborate running story. Even in QoS there’s not much of a running story apart from ‘his girlfriend died’.

    I think the producers of the Craig-Bond movies had a desire to develop a "Grand over arching story Arc" for the character, but were handicapped by not being able to work with a single director who would be willing to commit to the whole journey, like the actor.

    Each change of director inevitably led to changes in the direction of the story and changes in emphasis on different elements, as each new director wanted to bring his own ideas and give the characters his own spin, which made for piecemeal results that don't always gell together as well as they would have hoped.

    In the begining the producers only had a vague, ill defined concept of where they wanted it to go, with no firm idea of the destination. There was no single person in control who could provide a strong vision, like an author might.

    CR sets things up well, presents the new Bond, gives him a satisfying adventure, and introduces the idea of the mysterious evil organisation.

    QoS attempts to develop this, but doesn't have Martin Campbell, does have a writers strike and meets with an underwhelming response from the public.

    SF everyone gets cold feet and largely abandons the Grand Arc in favour of a stand alone with another new director and is met with great success

    SP they manage to retain the director for once, and he makes a valient attempt to both
    -pick up the loose threads of the Grand Arc and carry it forward.
    while also
    -covering the possibility that it might be Craig's last go round as Bond.

    NTTD the next new director bails and they have to bring in another, who has to bring the Grand Arc to a final conclusion, this time in the certain knowledge that this will definitely be Craig's last go round as Bond.

    I think this is where cycles like Sam Raimi Spiderman, Chris Nolan Batman, Marvel with the Russo brothers Captain America / Avengers and James Gunn Guardians had an advantage and were more succesful in creating a satisfactory whole (although Raimi's 3rd didn't quite manage to pull it off)
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,179
    Time for a naval-themed Bond film.

    Destroying the Destroyer

    After the UK and South Korea collaborate on security and defense strategies, North Korea threatens the UK with the unveiling of its new warship, Jeoj-eun Bae aka 'Wet Belly'. Bond is sent to Seoul and teams up with South Korean intelligence to stop the launch. Thanks to Q's adaptive camouflage suit, Bond is able to sneak into the villain's launch party on the docks and sabotage the operation, crippling the 5000-tonne vessel.

    54539692283_ba95057b62_z.jpg
    "It's time... for a hull break."

    54539796395_f7c7616b58_z.jpg
    Above: A floody big ship.

    54538579732_90d86856b2_o.jpg
    Let's stay undercover: "Bathosub to crane! Lower away!"

    James Bond 007 returns
    in
    Kimmander

    Releasing earlier than expected...
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,497
    Okay good but is there a Korean Bond Girl? Is there?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,179
    Okay good but is there a Korean Bond Girl? Is there?
    Yes, that definitely needs to happen.
  • CigaretteLeiterCigaretteLeiter United States
    Posts: 115
    I think now's the time for a proper adaptation of Moonraker (neither the 1979 film of DAD really count). It's the perfect opportunity for Amazon to show they'll respect the franchsie's roots. Furthermore, like @AnotherZorinStooge said, relevance can help make a good villain. A timely plotline can help show audiences why Bond is still relevant.

    A decade past Brexit and in the wake of the breakdown of the special relationship with the Americans, Parliament is being pushed to re-arm the United Kingdom. From this backdrop emerges [Villain], a charismatic industrialist who's risen out of nothing to become a cornerstone of British society, owning considerable real estate in London and even a football club. He's the frontrunner for the MOD's grand prize contract, and unveils before the country the ultimate form of geopolitical risk management: RISICO, a cutting-edge missile defense system.

    Knowing the original story as well as you all do, I'm sure you can figure out the rest of the plot. The villain is actually a casualty of a war the UK was involved in, he's held a grudge against Britain and the West writ large, and seeks to destroy the UK by turning Risico on his benefactors. Bond has to destroy the missiles, and you get a beautiful scene where he races against the clock to launch the missiles at the silos- should induce some panic in the hearts of everyone who's seen NTTD ;)

    It has stakes, relevance, and respect for its predecessors. The perfect cocktail for the first film of the new Bond era.

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,179
    RISICO the defence system, that's a good call @CigaretteLeiter.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,249
    That's a fun updating of the MR concept. I guess you could make him something of a populist too.
  • Posts: 15,763
    Here's an idea I've had for a while. Was considering writing a fanfic story set between QOS and SF, but it could work as a new story for a new Bond. Freely/heavily inspired by DN and MR.

    -Colonel Pardaleos (real name unknown) is the reclusive, shadowy head of a small PMC called New Sparta, a barely legal organisation that sells its services to the highest bidder. Sometimes dictators and authoritarian regimes, sometimes terrorist groups. He lives on a heavily guarded Greek island, or somewhere in the Mediterranea anyway. Little is known for certain about him, except that he served in the French Foreign Legion and that he specialised in explosives and bomb making.
    -He's been paid an insane amount of money by an unspecified client to detonate a bomb (not a nuke, but a conventional if massive bomb, maybe a MOAB) in a British port close to a petrol refinery. The blast and subsequent fire would effectively destroy said city and cripple British economy. In effect, he'd be using a boat as a detonator.
    -Of course, Bond and MI6 wouldn't be aware of this right away, it would start with a routine investigation like in Dr No, some station agent being executed, or maybe Pardaleos testing his plan on a smaller scale, like using a little boat to sink a British ship.
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