No Time To Die Script - Alternative pitches/what would you change?

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,920
    Bond shouldn't die at the end. He should ride off into the sunset with his missus and kid.

    Tried to go all Iron Man on us and it failed. TYou know, if there are two things I'd like to see
    amazon attempt, well three because I'm still holding out for Bezos to be clipped, is to cut out nationalism and a dependence on athwart box-office trends.

    They don't need the cash and the film will most likely make money whatever.

    I keep reading that the ending of No Time to Die was inspired by Endgame, but everyone seems to forget that the movie was filmed in 2019, not 2021. Bond's death was bound to happen regardless of what Marvel did.

    I think they were inspired by Logan...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,967
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    31b808_2de9a94874da4fdd99d7258935c98506~mv2.jpg

    One of my biggest frustrations with NTTD was how Blofeld was handled. I hate everything about the scene to be honest, the dialogue, the acting and the plotting of it.

    I think what would have elevated it greatly, for me at least, would have been if they added stakes to it, for example Blofeld reveals to Bond he has a child and that Blofeld has ordered her and Madeleine to be killed.

    It would be significant that Bond's arch nemesis is the one to reveal to him he has a daughter, but it'd also give Bond to a reason to kill him in a fit of rage.
    This not only adds tension to this scene, but it adds stakes to the next scene as now Bond is in a race against time to protect Madeleine and his daughter.
    Just my thoughts

    But Blofeld does hint at the daughter, and I'd say the 'it'll be the end of you' stuff does raise the stakes there for Bond.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,681
    Plus, it makes more sense for the drama about their daughter to be between Bond and Madeleine.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,771
    That's true mate, but it just feels somewhat vague and later on when Bond finds out he has a daughter it doesn't feel impactful at all
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 147
    Bond shouldn't die at the end. He should ride off into the sunset with his missus and kid.

    Tried to go all Iron Man on us and it failed. TYou know, if there are two things I'd like to see
    amazon attempt, well three because I'm still holding out for Bezos to be clipped, is to cut out nationalism and a dependence on athwart box-office trends.

    They don't need the cash and the film will most likely make money whatever.

    I keep reading that the ending of No Time to Die was inspired by Endgame, but everyone seems to forget that the movie was filmed in 2019, not 2021. Bond's death was bound to happen regardless of what Marvel did.

    I think they were inspired by Logan...

    It is certainly more plausible than EON being inspired by Endgame.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 5,004
    mtm wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    31b808_2de9a94874da4fdd99d7258935c98506~mv2.jpg

    One of my biggest frustrations with NTTD was how Blofeld was handled. I hate everything about the scene to be honest, the dialogue, the acting and the plotting of it.

    I think what would have elevated it greatly, for me at least, would have been if they added stakes to it, for example Blofeld reveals to Bond he has a child and that Blofeld has ordered her and Madeleine to be killed.

    It would be significant that Bond's arch nemesis is the one to reveal to him he has a daughter, but it'd also give Bond to a reason to kill him in a fit of rage.
    This not only adds tension to this scene, but it adds stakes to the next scene as now Bond is in a race against time to protect Madeleine and his daughter.
    Just my thoughts

    But Blofeld does hint at the daughter, and I'd say the 'it'll be the end of you' stuff does raise the stakes there for Bond.

    As I read in The Making of No Time To Die book, there were arguably a number of reasons that scene felt wrong.

    First, it sounds like Phoebe Waller-Bridge was the main writer of the scene. She can be a mixed bag when it comes to writing true drama and tension. The dialogue was cringe-worthy, honestly.

    Second, it sounds like Daniel Craig was arguably co-directing the scene. He seemed like he was not sure how to play the scene. It felt like he could talk the talk (pun intended), with his ego. But he couldn't walk the walk. Craig's creative control at its worst was shown in this scene. For me, he could in retrospect, feel soap-opera like in his acting. This is one thing that won't be missed in future Bond movies, even if there should be drama to raise the stakes. A different approach to the drama in Bond is needed.

    Third, the scene feels like a last minute add-on. Remember, Christoph Waltz wasn't announced with the main cast at the announcement itself. Maybe, EON was figuring out how to bring him back, or he wasn't going to come back at that time. Or EON didn't want to announce him as officially as Blofeld, simply because of the criticism that the "secret" of his true identity caused. As I've said before, it seems that everyone (namely Waltz and Craig) in retrospect knew that they were written into a corner thanks to the family connection. Plus, this being a true finale to an overall long story, didn't do them any favors.

    So, honestly, I feel that the portrayal of Blofeld has no where to go but up, with whoever is in charge of the series.

    Another thing that I would change is Paloma being on the boat with Bond and Leiter. Unfortunately, she would drown. Bringing things full circle with Vesper. It could add to Bond's guilt and determination about protecting his family. I know that it's a bold and controversial choice, but that is one thing that I would change. It would be similar to Dr. Kaufman in TND, a memorable one scene character that gives a similarity to an Ian Fleming-like character.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,869
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    31b808_2de9a94874da4fdd99d7258935c98506~mv2.jpg

    One of my biggest frustrations with NTTD was how Blofeld was handled. I hate everything about the scene to be honest, the dialogue, the acting and the plotting of it.

    I think what would have elevated it greatly, for me at least, would have been if they added stakes to it, for example Blofeld reveals to Bond he has a child and that Blofeld has ordered her and Madeleine to be killed.

    It would be significant that Bond's arch nemesis is the one to reveal to him he has a daughter, but it'd also give Bond to a reason to kill him in a fit of rage.
    This not only adds tension to this scene, but it adds stakes to the next scene as now Bond is in a race against time to protect Madeleine and his daughter.
    Just my thoughts

    But Blofeld does hint at the daughter, and I'd say the 'it'll be the end of you' stuff does raise the stakes there for Bond.

    As I read in The Making of No Time To Die book, there were arguably a number of reasons that scene felt wrong.

    First, it sounds like Phoebe Waller-Bridge was the main writer of the scene. She can be a mixed bag when it comes to writing true drama and tension. The dialogue was cringe-worthy, honestly.

    Second, it sounds like Daniel Craig was arguably co-directing the scene. He seemed like he was not sure how to play the scene. It felt like he could talk the talk (pun intended), with his ego. But he couldn't walk the walk. Craig's creative control at its worst was shown in this scene. For me, he could in retrospect, feel soap-opera like in his acting. This is one thing that won't be missed in future Bond movies, even if there should be drama to raise the stakes. A different approach to the drama in Bond is needed.

    Third, the scene feels like a last minute add-on. Remember, Christoph Waltz wasn't announced with the main cast at the announcement itself. Maybe, EON was figuring out how to bring him back, or he wasn't going to come back at that time. Or EON didn't want to announce him as officially as Blofeld, simply because of the criticism that the "secret" of his true identity caused. As I've said before, it seems that everyone (namely Waltz and Craig) in retrospect knew that they were written into a corner thanks to the family connection. Plus, this being a true finale to an overall long story, didn't do them any favors.

    So, honestly, I feel that the portrayal of Blofeld has no where to go but up, with whoever is in charge of the series.

    Another thing that I would change is Paloma being on the boat with Bond and Leiter. Unfortunately, she would drown. Bringing things full circle with Vesper. It could add to Bond's guilt and determination about protecting his family. I know that it's a bold and controversial choice, but that is one thing that I would change. It would be similar to Dr. Kaufman in TND, a memorable one scene character that gives a similarity to an Ian Fleming-like character.

    Your Paloma suggestion is devastating. They should have done it.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited May 3 Posts: 2,533
    I think NTTD should have been a standalone Bond film, like the ending of SP suggested. Eon would have had a better experience working on something fresh, instead of trying to close Craig's Bond chapter. SF at the time, was a standalone Bond film and look how it worked well on its on, without linking itself to CR & QoS...at the time, of course. Linking Craig's Bond films, just put EON under unnecessary pressure. That's why some the results are mixed. But still, Craig's a great Bond.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 147
    LucknFate wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    31b808_2de9a94874da4fdd99d7258935c98506~mv2.jpg

    One of my biggest frustrations with NTTD was how Blofeld was handled. I hate everything about the scene to be honest, the dialogue, the acting and the plotting of it.

    I think what would have elevated it greatly, for me at least, would have been if they added stakes to it, for example Blofeld reveals to Bond he has a child and that Blofeld has ordered her and Madeleine to be killed.

    It would be significant that Bond's arch nemesis is the one to reveal to him he has a daughter, but it'd also give Bond to a reason to kill him in a fit of rage.
    This not only adds tension to this scene, but it adds stakes to the next scene as now Bond is in a race against time to protect Madeleine and his daughter.
    Just my thoughts

    But Blofeld does hint at the daughter, and I'd say the 'it'll be the end of you' stuff does raise the stakes there for Bond.

    As I read in The Making of No Time To Die book, there were arguably a number of reasons that scene felt wrong.

    First, it sounds like Phoebe Waller-Bridge was the main writer of the scene. She can be a mixed bag when it comes to writing true drama and tension. The dialogue was cringe-worthy, honestly.

    Second, it sounds like Daniel Craig was arguably co-directing the scene. He seemed like he was not sure how to play the scene. It felt like he could talk the talk (pun intended), with his ego. But he couldn't walk the walk. Craig's creative control at its worst was shown in this scene. For me, he could in retrospect, feel soap-opera like in his acting. This is one thing that won't be missed in future Bond movies, even if there should be drama to raise the stakes. A different approach to the drama in Bond is needed.

    Third, the scene feels like a last minute add-on. Remember, Christoph Waltz wasn't announced with the main cast at the announcement itself. Maybe, EON was figuring out how to bring him back, or he wasn't going to come back at that time. Or EON didn't want to announce him as officially as Blofeld, simply because of the criticism that the "secret" of his true identity caused. As I've said before, it seems that everyone (namely Waltz and Craig) in retrospect knew that they were written into a corner thanks to the family connection. Plus, this being a true finale to an overall long story, didn't do them any favors.

    So, honestly, I feel that the portrayal of Blofeld has no where to go but up, with whoever is in charge of the series.

    Another thing that I would change is Paloma being on the boat with Bond and Leiter. Unfortunately, she would drown. Bringing things full circle with Vesper. It could add to Bond's guilt and determination about protecting his family. I know that it's a bold and controversial choice, but that is one thing that I would change. It would be similar to Dr. Kaufman in TND, a memorable one scene character that gives a similarity to an Ian Fleming-like character.

    Your Paloma suggestion is devastating. They should have done it.

    I can't see what that would add to Bond's determination that Felix's death doesn't already. On the other hand, having Paloma there would make the scene cluttered. It works much better this way.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 5,004
    Bond shouldn't die at the end. He should ride off into the sunset with his missus and kid.

    Tried to go all Iron Man on us and it failed. TYou know, if there are two things I'd like to see
    amazon attempt, well three because I'm still holding out for Bezos to be clipped, is to cut out nationalism and a dependence on athwart box-office trends.

    They don't need the cash and the film will most likely make money whatever.

    I keep reading that the ending of No Time to Die was inspired by Endgame, but everyone seems to forget that the movie was filmed in 2019, not 2021. Bond's death was bound to happen regardless of what Marvel did.

    I think they were inspired by Logan...

    Yes, I view SP as a reaction to the MCU as a whole. Back when the MCU was the trend-setter.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,967
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    31b808_2de9a94874da4fdd99d7258935c98506~mv2.jpg

    One of my biggest frustrations with NTTD was how Blofeld was handled. I hate everything about the scene to be honest, the dialogue, the acting and the plotting of it.

    I think what would have elevated it greatly, for me at least, would have been if they added stakes to it, for example Blofeld reveals to Bond he has a child and that Blofeld has ordered her and Madeleine to be killed.

    It would be significant that Bond's arch nemesis is the one to reveal to him he has a daughter, but it'd also give Bond to a reason to kill him in a fit of rage.
    This not only adds tension to this scene, but it adds stakes to the next scene as now Bond is in a race against time to protect Madeleine and his daughter.
    Just my thoughts

    But Blofeld does hint at the daughter, and I'd say the 'it'll be the end of you' stuff does raise the stakes there for Bond.

    As I read in The Making of No Time To Die book, there were arguably a number of reasons that scene felt wrong.

    First, it sounds like Phoebe Waller-Bridge was the main writer of the scene. She can be a mixed bag when it comes to writing true drama and tension. The dialogue was cringe-worthy, honestly.

    Second, it sounds like Daniel Craig was arguably co-directing the scene. He seemed like he was not sure how to play the scene. It felt like he could talk the talk (pun intended), with his ego. But he couldn't walk the walk. Craig's creative control at its worst was shown in this scene. For me, he could in retrospect, feel soap-opera like in his acting. This is one thing that won't be missed in future Bond movies, even if there should be drama to raise the stakes. A different approach to the drama in Bond is needed.

    I don't think the book suggests that at all; it says Craig had ideas for what Bond should say and they took that onboard, but that's scripting, not direction. He also wrote a lot of QoS, he knows the character.
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Another thing that I would change is Paloma being on the boat with Bond and Leiter. Unfortunately, she would drown. Bringing things full circle with Vesper. It could add to Bond's guilt and determination about protecting his family. I know that it's a bold and controversial choice, but that is one thing that I would change. It would be similar to Dr. Kaufman in TND, a memorable one scene character that gives a similarity to an Ian Fleming-like character.

    I think that would distract from Felix dying: Felix is the important character there. Paloma served her purpose.
  • CharmianBondCharmianBond Pett Bottom, Kent
    Posts: 564
    I also respectfully disagree with Paloma dying. Leiter's death already parallels Vesper and is actually an Ian Fleming created character. Regardless of whether you think it's a good decision, surely it's more impactful to be Bond's closest friend whom we've spend the past 15 years with rather than a woman he and the audience have just met.

    I find it refreshing that NTTD inverts the traditional 'fridging' narrative and Paloma being this vivacious character that gets to live and revel in the joy of the spy world is novel for the Craig era.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,967
    The bit where M learns of Felix's death is great I think, it really stops him in his tracks.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 283
    I would lose the entire 'super-weapon' creation, Bond's/Felix's death, the Blofeld scene and virtually the entire film...
  • Posts: 5,163
    I also respectfully disagree with Paloma dying. Leiter's death already parallels Vesper and is actually an Ian Fleming created character. Regardless of whether you think it's a good decision, surely it's more impactful to be Bond's closest friend whom we've spend the past 15 years with rather than a woman he and the audience have just met.

    I find it refreshing that NTTD inverts the traditional 'fridging' narrative and Paloma being this vivacious character that gets to live and revel in the joy of the spy world is novel for the Craig era.

    That's a good point. It's not a decision I've liked in the past, but rewatching the movie Leiter's death makes sense for the story and has an impact. The Craig era also had four female sacrificial lambs that maybe seeing a few survive by the end was a good thing.
    I would lose the entire 'super-weapon' creation, Bond's/Felix's death, the Blofeld scene and virtually the entire film...

    Any alternative stories you'd have run with?
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,771
    Not so much a script change, but I do wish they'd have made more of the Atlantic Road in Norway. A car chase in the V8 Vantage on the Atlantic Road would have been cool
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,681
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Not so much a script change, but I do wish they'd have made more of the Atlantic Road in Norway. A car chase in the V8 Vantage on the Atlantic Road would have been cool

    Yes, this was a disappointment. The film needed a stunt there.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited May 8 Posts: 2,533
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Not so much a script change, but I do wisnhgth they'd have made more of the Atlantic Road in Norway. A car chase in the V8 Vantage on the Atlantic Road would have been cool

    Exactly. Something inventive needed to happen on that road and the forest as well. From the trailers and BTS videos, it was looking like the Norway sequence was going to be very memorable. It just turned out to be standard action. So disappointing!
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 283
    007HallY wrote: »
    I also respectfully disagree with Paloma dying. Leiter's death already parallels Vesper and is actually an Ian Fleming created character. Regardless of whether you think it's a good decision, surely it's more impactful to be Bond's closest friend whom we've spend the past 15 years with rather than a woman he and the audience have just met.

    I find it refreshing that NTTD inverts the traditional 'fridging' narrative and Paloma being this vivacious character that gets to live and revel in the joy of the spy world is novel for the Craig era.

    That's a good point. It's not a decision I've liked in the past, but rewatching the movie Leiter's death makes sense for the story and has an impact. The Craig era also had four female sacrificial lambs that maybe seeing a few survive by the end was a good thing.
    I would lose the entire 'super-weapon' creation, Bond's/Felix's death, the Blofeld scene and virtually the entire film...

    Any alternative stories you'd have run with?

    Em....

    Bond kills Madeleine for the insurance money and seeks revenge when there isn't a swift payout....

    No. I don't have any ideas.
  • Posts: 1,749
    If Bond had cleverly exchanged devices with Safin in a scuffle. Then, a moment later, when Safin mentions the color of it, Bond would pull the one from his pocket showing he'd exchanged. Subsequently, hop a weather balloon as in the ending of the YOLT novel, ride it away. Gets propelled by the explosion and the balloon can't handle it. Bond falls into the sea and - as in YOLT novel - gets rescued but is clearly dazed. Later, his sweetie is telling their child about him as she rounds a bend, on a road that now is in town. The child points out, "There !" and mama does not expect it. The only question is whether to show Bond standing there - as in, say, the ending of The Dark Night Returns when Alfred sees Bruce Wayne at another table -- or not. Either way, it's the end of Craig's Bond's service. He has a daughter to raise and her mother to love, and not get killed in action.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,681
    Bond is dead. Long live Bond!
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,389
    echo wrote: »
    Bond is dead. Long live Bond!
    Meet the New Bond. (Same as the Old Bond.)


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