No Time To Die Script - Alternative pitches/what would you change?

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    Just one more scene was needed.

    M: Blast! Bond has been destroyed, along with the island.

    Q: Not necessarily--

    M: Out with it, Q.

    Q: The missiles destroyed the nanobots, but not necessarily Bond's DNA, sir.

    M: You mean...

    Q: We can rebuild him, sir. Bigger, stronger, faster.

    Daniel Craig
    is
    Ian Fleming's James Bond 007 (again)
    in
    The Six Billion Dollar Man
  • Posts: 1,517
    Safin's revenge motive is a cheesy add on that had no antecedent in previous films. A smarter play would have been relating him to someone who was knocked off in CR or QoS.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,513
    In the PTS when Bond and Madeleine were driving in the DB5, it would have been cool if a car raced past them, it's no threat but maybe it spooked them. Right after the Majesty's cue plays.

    A nod to fans and it sets the tone for the danger ahead
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,368
    It's fair to
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    In the PTS when Bond and Madeleine were driving in the DB5, it would have been cool if a car raced past them, it's no threat but maybe it spooked them. Right after the Majesty's cue plays.

    A nod to fans and it sets the tone for the danger ahead

    Wonderful suggestion! It seems they were more focused on Bond dying at the end, I guess. So they sort of missed...carving out the more thrilling and suspenseful bits.
  • Posts: 2,897
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,368
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Exactly! As a Bond director, you need to get Bond doing something unusual. They could easily have made Bond's watch work in LALD, when he was trying to get the boat with his magnetic wristwatch only to find out a rope was holding the boat. But instead, he stepped on the crocodiles to escape....Unique!
  • edited February 9 Posts: 2,897
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Exactly! As a Bond director, you need to get Bond doing something unusual. They could easily have made Bond's watch work in LALD, when he was trying to get the boat with his magnetic wristwatch only to find out a rope was holding the boat. But instead, he stepped on the crocodiles to escape....Unique!

    It’s a very particular thing when it comes to Bond. Challenging too. You have to balance out an elaborate scenario (or indeed help come up with one) with a genuinely tense approach to the scene. Some directors just have that skill - Campbell, Mendes, Gilbert, Glen, Hamilton. For some directors it’s just not one of their strengths. Forster lacked it almost entirely I’d say. Fukunaga covered this gap in his directing with stylised cinematography and action. Even Young I’d say didn’t really have that special touch and GF cemented much of this ‘Bondian’ approach to action.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 9 Posts: 1,368
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Exactly! As a Bond director, you need to get Bond doing something unusual. They could easily have made Bond's watch work in LALD, when he was trying to get the boat with his magnetic wristwatch only to find out a rope was holding the boat. But instead, he stepped on the crocodiles to escape....Unique!

    It’s a very particular thing when it comes to Bond. Challenging too. You have to balance out an elaborate scenario (or indeed help come up with one) with a genuinely tense approach to the scene. Some directors just have that skill - Campbell, Mendes, Gilbert, Glen, Hamilton. For some directors it’s just not one of their strengths. Forster lacked it almost entirely I’d say. Fukunaga covered this gap in his directing with stylised cinematography and action. Even Young I’d say didn’t really have that special touch and GF cemented much of this ‘Bondian’ approach to action.

    That's just it. Although, Forster got Bond upside down with a rope, before he turned and shot Mitchell. Also, Young got Bond to use pillows to deceive Dent and Dent shot the pillows, thinking Bond was sleeping. So I feel this are the extra things a Bond director needs. Also, apart from Campbell getting Bond to ride a tanker in a city, he put a statue on it as well. Roger Spottiswoode handcuffed Bond and Wai Lin to a bike....just to mention a few. Other Bond directors also did a lot.
  • edited February 9 Posts: 2,897
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Exactly! As a Bond director, you need to get Bond doing something unusual. They could easily have made Bond's watch work in LALD, when he was trying to get the boat with his magnetic wristwatch only to find out a rope was holding the boat. But instead, he stepped on the crocodiles to escape....Unique!

    It’s a very particular thing when it comes to Bond. Challenging too. You have to balance out an elaborate scenario (or indeed help come up with one) with a genuinely tense approach to the scene. Some directors just have that skill - Campbell, Mendes, Gilbert, Glen, Hamilton. For some directors it’s just not one of their strengths. Forster lacked it almost entirely I’d say. Fukunaga covered this gap in his directing with stylised cinematography and action. Even Young I’d say didn’t really have that special touch and GF cemented much of this ‘Bondian’ approach to action.

    That's just it. Although, Forster got Bond upside down with a rope, before he turned and shot Mitchell. Also, Young got Bond to use pillows to deceive Dent and Dent shot the pillows, thinking Bond was sleeping. So I feel this are the extra things a Bond director needs. Also, apart from Campbell getting Bond to ride a tanker in a city, he put a statue on it as well. Roger Spottiswoode handcuffed Bond and Wai Lin to a bike....just to mention a few. Other Bond directors also did a lot.

    I wouldn’t say the pillow thing or the rope moment qualify (the rope moment more so I guess, but it’s more a little flourish and we don’t get anything else of this kind during the many action sequences in QOS). Both things, while cool, could be seen in pretty much any other spy or action film. It’s more about being able to present something quite fundamentally absurd in a way that, within the film, makes it believable though not necessarily realistic.

    Again, I’m thinking about stuff like Bond commandeering a tank and crashing through a statue. Bond showing up in a wet suit with his tuxedo already beneath it. Bond harpooning a plane and water skiing without skis. I think even the sinking house in CR had traces of it (and CR is a more ‘gritty’ film in comparison to many of its predecessors).

    Even in FRWL and DN, two Bond films I love, we never quite get that level of heightened reality (the closest I think is when Bond blows up the boats at the end of FRWL). On the other end of this you have examples when this type of moment is attempted but fails. I’m thinking of the bit in DAD when Bond flips his car by pushing the ejector seat (it’s a silly idea, and everyone watching it in the moment knows he’d just be smashed through the ice). A better moment in that film is when he uses the snow mobile’s bonnet/parachute as a sort of surfboard, but even that’s somewhat ruined by dodgy CGI.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,368
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Exactly! As a Bond director, you need to get Bond doing something unusual. They could easily have made Bond's watch work in LALD, when he was trying to get the boat with his magnetic wristwatch only to find out a rope was holding the boat. But instead, he stepped on the crocodiles to escape....Unique!

    It’s a very particular thing when it comes to Bond. Challenging too. You have to balance out an elaborate scenario (or indeed help come up with one) with a genuinely tense approach to the scene. Some directors just have that skill - Campbell, Mendes, Gilbert, Glen, Hamilton. For some directors it’s just not one of their strengths. Forster lacked it almost entirely I’d say. Fukunaga covered this gap in his directing with stylised cinematography and action. Even Young I’d say didn’t really have that special touch and GF cemented much of this ‘Bondian’ approach to action.

    That's just it. Although, Forster got Bond upside down with a rope, before he turned and shot Mitchell. Also, Young got Bond to use pillows to deceive Dent and Dent shot the pillows, thinking Bond was sleeping. So I feel this are the extra things a Bond director needs. Also, apart from Campbell getting Bond to ride a tanker in a city, he put a statue on it as well. Roger Spottiswoode handcuffed Bond and Wai Lin to a bike....just to mention a few. Other Bond directors also did a lot.

    I wouldn’t say the pillow thing or the rope moment qualify (the rope moment more so I guess, but it’s more a little flourish and we don’t get anything else of this kind during the many action sequences in QOS). Both things, while cool, could be seen in pretty much any other spy or action film. It’s more about being able to present something quite fundamentally absurd in a way that, within the film, makes it believable though not necessarily realistic.

    Again, I’m thinking about stuff like Bond commandeering a tank and crashing through a statue. Bond showing up in a wet suit with his tuxedo already beneath it. Bond harpooning a plane and water skiing without skis. I think even the sinking house in CR had traces of it (and CR is a more ‘gritty’ film in comparison to many of its predecessors).

    Even in FRWL and DN, two Bond films I love, we never quite get that level of heightened reality (the closest I think is when Bond blows up the boats at the end of FRWL). On the other end of this you have examples when this type of moment is attempted but fails. I’m thinking of the bit in DAD when Bond flips his car by pushing the ejector seat (it’s a silly idea, and everyone watching it in the moment knows he’d just be smashed through the ice). A better moment in that film is when he uses the snow mobile’s bonnet/parachute as a sort of surfboard, but even that’s somewhat ruined by dodgy CGI.

    Yeah. All very good examples.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited February 9 Posts: 2,513
    Not so much as a script change as it is a change in general, but I wish Craig had played Bond a bit more consistently throughout the film. It's not entirely his fault though the changing tone doesn't help

    I love his portrayal in Matera, especially Jamaica and through most of Safin's Island. He's stoic and a bit sharp in his interactions, which suits a retired Bond. His meeting with Nomi being the best example "it's commander Bond" and "in my humble opinion the world doesn't change much"

    He is a wounded animal, that Fukunaga spoke about in one of the trailers, but its forgotten when he gets to Cuba and even more so in London. I just think his portrayal is less interesting Cuba onwards
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,368
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Not so much as a script change as it is a change in general, but I wish Craig had played Bond a bit more consistently throughout the film. It's not entirely his fault though the changing tone doesn't help

    I love his portrayal in Matera, especially Jamaica and through most of Safin's Island. He's stoic and a bit sharp in his interactions, which suits a retired Bond. His meeting with Nomi being the best example "it's commander Bond" and "in my humble opinion the world doesn't change much"

    He is a wounded animal, that Fukunaga spoke about in one of the trailers, but its forgotten when he gets to Cuba and even more so in London. I just think his portrayal is less interesting Cuba onwards

    Yeah, the film is brilliantly shot for sure. Apart from the shift in tone, Fukunaga isn't very inventive with the action scenes. Action-wise nothing extraordinary happens in Cuba. The Norway chase looked like it would be a show stopper in the trailers, but it was very disappointing. The lab attack..nothing special...nothing suspenseful. Compare that to Necros attacking with milk and kidnapping Koskov in TLD. It's just the Matera sequence and the Bunker shootout that's very solid.
  • edited February 10 Posts: 12,837
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Yeah I still really like the film but I really noticed this when I watched the Craig films all the way through. It’s a very stylish action film, but it’s got a bit of an American flavour to it, I don’t think it feels like a Bond film in the way that the Mendes films in particular really, really did, despite all the ingredients being there on the surface.

    I guess that’s why they generally tend to stick to British directors. Safer bet that they’ll “get it”. But even then it’s not guaranteed to be fair, I think the Brosnan era had a similarly American vibe at times.
  • Posts: 2,897
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Yeah I still really like the film but I really noticed this when I watched the Craig films all the way through. It’s a very stylish action film, but it’s got a bit of an American flavour to it, I don’t think it feels like a Bond film in the way that the Mendes films in particular really, really did, despite all the ingredients being there on the surface.

    I guess that’s why they generally tend to stick to British directors. Safer bet that they’ll “get it”. But even then it’s not guaranteed to be fair, I think the Brosnan era had a similarly American vibe at times.

    There’s definitely something to that. It might also be a case against some ‘workman-like’ directors (in the sense that I’d say a director like Spottiswoode or Apted are more likely to give us something more ‘Americanised’ and perhaps generic because they’re simply doing a job. Much as I love TND it does feel a bit too 90s action film at times).

    And that’s not to say Fukunaga’s approach was bad. His style during action scenes is certainly polished and slick. I just find that more tongue in cheek/Bondian approach more interesting.
  • 007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Yeah I still really like the film but I really noticed this when I watched the Craig films all the way through. It’s a very stylish action film, but it’s got a bit of an American flavour to it, I don’t think it feels like a Bond film in the way that the Mendes films in particular really, really did, despite all the ingredients being there on the surface.

    I guess that’s why they generally tend to stick to British directors. Safer bet that they’ll “get it”. But even then it’s not guaranteed to be fair, I think the Brosnan era had a similarly American vibe at times.

    There’s definitely something to that. It might also be a case against some ‘workman-like’ directors (in the sense that I’d say a director like Spottiswoode or Apted are more likely to give us something more ‘Americanised’ and perhaps generic because they’re simply doing a job. Much as I love TND it does feel a bit too 90s action film at times).

    And that’s not to say Fukunaga’s approach was bad. His style during action scenes is certainly polished and slick. I just find that more tongue in cheek/Bondian approach more interesting.

    Good point about the workman like directors. In Cubby’s run it worked because they were part of the EON family. Glen was pretty workman like in how he approached it, but he’d spent his career working on Bond, so he got it. A workman like director who’s never had anything to do with Bond before is more of a risk.

    And in TND’s case, I think the Americanisms in the script don’t help. I know we’re only talking a couple of throwaway lines, but I still can’t get over how nobody involved noticed how jarring Bond saying “cell phone” and “station break” was.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    Glen knows how to shoot action. I don't think Fukunaga or Mendes really does.
  • edited February 10 Posts: 2,897
    For Fukunaga I think it’s just where his instincts/expertise lies. He started off as a cinematographer professionally, so I think he’s more inclined to shape action sequences through camera movement, not necessarily the movement of the characters if this makes sense. It’s likely why you have stuff like the long hand-held take during the staircase shoot out, or why the Cuba sequence has all these elaborate camera movements even when characters are just hiding behind pillars or whatever. There’s a sense the camera is not always connected to the characters, often moving independently. Compare it to the staircase fight in CR where its rhythm is driven by the editing, the camera really only moving when motivated by the actors.

    SF has moments such as the Shanghai fight scene where you can argue the long take/moving camera bears a similarity to Fukunaga’s style (it’s likely due to Deakins’ involvement) but otherwise I’d say Mendes’ style of filming/editing fight sequences is more similar to Campbell’s. Like I said neither style is inherently bad. I just prefer when there’s a sense that you can actually feel what these characters are going through during a fight rather than having that detachment. But that’s just me.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 10 Posts: 1,368
    For me, the grave bomb, some parts of the Matera car chase, the donut car stunt and maybe the way he filmed the bike jump were the only distinctive things he created for Bond. The bunker scene was effective, but not too innovative, but I still liked it. All in all, Fukunaga isn't Bond material. Danny Boyle would have done way better....being British and all that.
  • Posts: 2,897
    I do actually believe Boyle would have had that ability to be fair. He can be quite bold and even outlandish.

    That said, I’m of the opinion his script was not, and was never going to be as strong as the one we got. So I don’t otherwise feel sorry we didn’t get him.
  • Posts: 1,517
    Is the Boyle script available to see and compare to the current film?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,805
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Is the Boyle script available to see and compare to the current film?

    That's what I'd like to know too. I doubt the script's available (at least legally) as Eon like to keep scripts in the vault in case they need to cannibalise them for ideas later. I've heard Danny Boyle balked at the idea of killing off Bond and I've heard it might've seen Bond going into space again but that's all I know.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,368
    Also, Bond being held captive for a substantial time. I feel like Boyle....while wanting to be inventive, wanted to do a more traditional Bond film. But EON more of subversion. That's why I feel NTTD lacks that Bondian feel.
  • edited February 11 Posts: 2,897
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Is the Boyle script available to see and compare to the current film?

    That's what I'd like to know too. I doubt the script's available (at least legally) as Eon like to keep scripts in the vault in case they need to cannibalise them for ideas later. I've heard Danny Boyle balked at the idea of killing off Bond and I've heard it might've seen Bond going into space again but that's all I know.

    This is only my theory, but I believe they won’t release Boyle’s Bond 25 for two major reasons.

    The first reason is I suspect when Boyle left, it wasn’t a finalised draft more than it was a series of drafts/treatments. I believe they were still trying to get the script into shape, which resulted in Boyle refusing to have script doctors/other writers involved. I think even he would say it wasn’t a project in its best or final stages yet, and it wouldn’t be right to release anything if one of the writers wasn’t fully happy with it.

    The second reason it won’t be released is because it wouldn’t be fair to those who created the NTTD we got. EON have released drafts of Dalton’s planned third Bond film, but this was obviously impeded by legal issues and bears little relation to GE. A third Dalton Bond movie is not something we were ever going to get in this sense. Boyle’s Bond 25 is by contrast an alternate version of a Craig Bond film that got made. Even if it objectively wasn’t in shape to be filmed there will still be fans who’d read it and compare it to the film we got (perhaps even negatively).

    It’s worth saying as well that Boyle didn’t balk at killing Bond. From my understanding he and Hodge pitched EON their idea, and EON in turn hired them but requested they weave their story ideas into it (ie. It had to be about a retired Bond going on one last mission, dying at the end, and perhaps even him facing off with a megalomaniac villain by the end). Boyle and Hodge seemingly agreed and this was what they incorporated/worked on when it came to the writing stage. They wouldn’t have been hired had they had an issue with Bond dying. In that sense Boyle’s Bond 25 would have been different, but would still have likely incorporated these broad ideas of the NTTD we got.
  • Posts: 1,517
    As a lifelong Bond fan, did I want a dead James Bond? No. Has it added anything to the series? No. It was not bold, necessary, or inevitable. It was dictated by a script that could have had a different ending. What will this film be remembered for? Killing Bond. Oh, and some nonsense about nanobots and killing Blofeld and Felix. Then there's the not ironic title. This film has its moments, but it's the not film I wish it would have been. It is far from the promise of CR. Safin, with no prior suggestion in the earlier films, shows up to do what Bond is unable to do. Perhaps if the film had circled back to CR, there might have been something more dramatic and ultimately more satisfying.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 12 Posts: 2,928
    Yes, Boyle himself said that the Hodge script for NTTD 'wasn't finished' and that while 'it could have been really good...they didn't want to go down that route.' In relation to Bond's death, Boyle said that 'Daniel had negotiated that as part of his deal, so that was bolted on' no matter who ended up writing the script. However, Mark Tyldesley said that Boyle had 'crazy, madcap...extraordinary ideas' for NTTD. Hmm. I'm still relieved that Boyle left, tbh!
  • edited February 12 Posts: 2,897
    I think it’s for the best too. Boyle could have potentially been a good fit as a director alone, but I get the sense his script just wasn’t up to scratch. I can’t help but think he put a bit too much of his heart and soul into the whole thing as well, to the point where he seemingly got upset at the thought of other writers contributing (which is kind of a weird thing to get upset about if you’re working on a Bond film when you think about it).

    But yeah, it’s worth saying that if you disliked NTTD for killing Bond, then Boyle’s version would have made absolutely no difference. If anything it’s more interesting (for me anyway) thinking about what EON had in mind for this film that Boyle had to incorporate, and indeed made its way into the NTTD we got (we know an older Bond who dies at the end was always the game plan, but I’ve always said I suspect they also wanted things like scraps or broad ideas from the YOLT novel to appear, the villain to become a megalomaniac with a world domination plan by the end, a more impressionistic approach to the story etc).
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 12 Posts: 1,368
    CrabKey wrote: »
    As a lifelong Bond fan, did I want a dead James Bond? No. Has it added anything to the series? No. It was not bold, necessary, or inevitable. It was dictated by a script that could have had a different ending. What will this film be remembered for? Killing Bond. Oh, and some nonsense about nanobots and killing Blofeld and Felix. Then there's the not ironic title. This film has its moments, but it's the not film I wish it would have been. It is far from the promise of CR. Safin, with no prior suggestion in the earlier films, shows up to do what Bond is unable to do. Perhaps if the film had circled back to CR, there might have been something more dramatic and ultimately more satisfying.

    Superb way of putting it. I agree wholeheartedly. The stakes aren't really that high to make Bond's death fitting. I never liked the idea of Bond dying, but if Bond died in a film like Licence To Kill....now that's an ultra-serious Bond film. Bond didn't even care if he lived or died, as long as Sanchez died. So had Bond died in LTK, I wouldn't have liked it, but I might have looked back and said it was worth it. i simply can't say the same about NTTD.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,473
    It's not even an earned "hero's death" by the end for me. The ticking time bomb here is slowly approaching buyers and a few international militaries getting feisty - meh. The kicker for me is Bond leaving his family behind instead of ensuring their safety while having Nomi complete the mission instead. It's all a bit too contrived for my tastes.
  • edited February 12 Posts: 1,004
    Superb way of putting it. I agree wholeheartedly.

    Me too. Well said, Crabkey.
    Venutius wrote: »
    In relation to Bond's death, Boyle said that 'Daniel had negotiated that as part of his deal, so that was bolted on' no matter who ended up writing the script. !

    I'm reminded of Cubby saying "no actor is bigger than Bond". Damn.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,928
    I'm reminded of Cubby saying "no actor is bigger than Bond". Damn.
    Can't find it now, but the last time I can remember a hint of that was in one of the interviews that BB and MGW did in the aftermath of SF. MGW said that despite SF's unprecedented success 'it doesn't have to be Daniel Craig' playing Bond in the next film. I don't know if Dan or his agent had been trying to renegotiate percentage points or whatever, but it seemed a strange thing for MGW to just come out with, publicly, at that point. BB didn't contradict him, but EON are really good at presenting a united front so who knows what she really thought!
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