Where does Bond go after Craig?

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Comments

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    or throwing in extra elements automatically makes something better, when in actual fact often times the opposite can be true.

    Like assuring there are Gen Z elements? Something Skyfall failed to do? (A few days ago you were very hung up about this…)

    I’m gonna start gobbling these word salads of yours pretty soon, but I’m fearful of my health since they’re nutrient deficient…

    Skyfall didn't "fail", it didn't have Gen Z elements because the oldest members of Gen Z were only 15 at the time.

    The Craig films do look considerably dated compared to modern movies now.

    Gobble-gobble….
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,383
    "Gen Z won't accept a fun bond film, they won't like it, better just stick to how EON does things now."

    Meanwhile, what is being made:

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,125
    What does the Mickey 17 (Which looks like a lot of fun btw) trailer have to do with B26?

    Also agree with @DarthDimi calling NTTD B25 all the time is childish.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited September 18 Posts: 8,383
    Benny wrote: »
    What does the Mickey 17 (Which looks like a lot of fun btw) trailer have to do with B26?

    Also agree with @DarthDimi calling NTTD B25 all the time is childish.

    I think its illustrative of the fact that cinema has come a long way and it isn't the 2010's anymore. There's no reason why Bond 26 can't or shouldn't take bold swings into directions which might be considered zany or irreverent. In many ways, this is the way things are going.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    Posts: 667
    I'm still waiting for @Mendes4Lyfe to explain why Craig's films are dated. And which ones?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,125
    Mickey 17 is categorized as Adventure / Comedy / Fantasy / Sci Fi

    The closest any Bond films come to that are MR and DAD, two of the most derided of all the Bond films. Generally amongst fans and the general audience.

    It's not a compelling argument for where Bond 26 should go.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Benny wrote: »
    What does the Mickey 17 (Which looks like a lot of fun btw) trailer have to do with B26?

    Also agree with @DarthDimi calling NTTD B25 all the time is childish.

    I think its illustrative of the fact that cinema has come a long way and it isn't the 2010's anymore. There's no reason why Bond 26 can't or shouldn't take bold swings into directions which might be considered zany or irreverent. In many ways, this is the way things are going.

    So The Batman will be zany too I guess?

    You're comparing different genres.

    And no one here has ever said that Bond shouldn't be bold, chef.

    Gobble, gobble.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited September 18 Posts: 4,568
    I can't believe we're at three years since Bond No Time to Die 25 was released 😉
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,201
    "Gen Z won't accept a fun bond film, they won't like it, better just stick to how EON does things now."

    Meanwhile, what is being made:


    I'd say the fact that this trailer (for a film that has been delayed repeatedly due to the studio's lack of confidence in it and has now been dumped as a January release) has been relentlessly mocked online all day undermines your point somewhat.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,150
    I'm still waiting for @Mendes4Lyfe to explain why Craig's films are dated. And which ones?

    Or why refusing to call NTTD by its name is such a bold and impressive act of defiance. I'm sure IP127something has his reasons.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,302
    "Gen Z won't accept a fun bond film, they won't like it, better just stick to how EON does things now."

    Meanwhile, what is being made:


    I'd say the fact that this trailer (for a film that has been delayed repeatedly due to the studio's lack of confidence in it and has now been dumped as a January release) has been relentlessly mocked online all day undermines your point somewhat.

    Has it really? I saw it this morning and must admit I was a bit nonplussed by it (feels like a variation on ideas I’ve seen a few times before), I thought it would have gone down well though.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited September 18 Posts: 8,383
    Aren't all films from the 2010's dated now, compared to modern stuff? I'm sure the upcoming Jurassic World Rebirth will also look better than the other Jurassic World films visually. Technology and the cinematography, lighting, editing game is always progressing.

    Remember the most recent Bond film is 5 years old in terms of when the cameras were actually rolling.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited September 18 Posts: 4,590
    Every time that I see that there are a lot of posts in this thread, I think a big announcement has been made. Sadly, it seems that a certain individual or two getting into the same arguments. At the risk of being booed or kicked off the site, I think it might be wise to shut down this thread for awhile. At least until we get some official news. Certain people's speculation has turned into fact in their minds. It may be time for this thread to take a break. Sorry to give my viewpoints.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,125

    Remember the most recent Bond film is 5 years old in terms of when the cameras were actually rolling.

    And?

    All I can say is, thank the maker some of you weren't around for the hiatus from LTK to GE.

    No internet to raise your anger over. Snippets of info in newspapers and magazines. But mostly zero Bond for six years, with no way of knowing when it would end and we'd see another Bond film.
    Yet we survived.
  • edited September 18 Posts: 4,077
    I too am awaiting the next zany and upbeat version of The Batman Part 2 (based of course on 'Gen Z' demand for some reason, presumably because the first one is two years old and this is the trend now, despite the previous film's success). I am also awaiting this particular movie by Bong Joon-Ho (a director known for his drama mixed with overt black comedy/irony which has nothing to do with this trailer which is in a very particular genre. This next film of his will be a lighthearted romp much like Moonraker and this is what Gen Z want to see).
  • edited September 18 Posts: 2,263
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Every time that I see that there are a lot of posts in this thread, I think a big announcement has been made. Sadly, it seems that a certain individual or two getting into the same arguments. At the risk of being booed or kicked off the site, I think it might be wise to shut down this thread for awhile. At least until we get some official news. Certain people's speculation has turned into fact in their minds. It may be time for this thread to take a break. Sorry to give my viewpoints.

    I agree. I’m not really sure what this thread has done besides be a battleground for countless debates that aren’t worth anyone’s time. Nobody has any solid idea to the question this thread poses (least of all EON for now), and the conversation always seems to circle back around to the quality of the Craig films, particularly the last two. I can see why some members may avoid this thread (if I’m being frank I don’t blame them.)

    More than anything else I’m just tired of all the pointless back and forth arguments surrounding Craig’s era. It’s time to move on.
  • edited September 19 Posts: 4,077
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Every time that I see that there are a lot of posts in this thread, I think a big announcement has been made. Sadly, it seems that a certain individual or two getting into the same arguments. At the risk of being booed or kicked off the site, I think it might be wise to shut down this thread for awhile. At least until we get some official news. Certain people's speculation has turned into fact in their minds. It may be time for this thread to take a break. Sorry to give my viewpoints.

    I agree. I’m not really sure what this thread has done besides be a battleground for countless debates that aren’t worth anyone’s time. Nobody has any solid idea to the question this thread poses (least of all EON for now), and the conversation always seems to circle back around to the quality of the Craig films, particularly the last two. I can see why some members may avoid this thread (if I’m being frank I don’t blame them.)

    More than anything else I’m just tired of all the pointless back and forth arguments surrounding Craig’s era. It’s time to move on.

    Well, it is a thread entitled 'where does Bond go after Craig' to be completely fair. Don't disagree, for some fans maybe it's better looking forward as opposed to what they like or don't about films from 5+ years ago. But at the same time there's not much else we can do apart from discuss it in the relevant threads.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,980
    007HallY wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Every time that I see that there are a lot of posts in this thread, I think a big announcement has been made. Sadly, it seems that a certain individual or two getting into the same arguments. At the risk of being booed or kicked off the site, I think it might be wise to shut down this thread for awhile. At least until we get some official news. Certain people's speculation has turned into fact in their minds. It may be time for this thread to take a break. Sorry to give my viewpoints.

    I agree. I’m not really sure what this thread has done besides be a battleground for countless debates that aren’t worth anyone’s time. Nobody has any solid idea to the question this thread poses (least of all EON for now), and the conversation always seems to circle back around to the quality of the Craig films, particularly the last two. I can see why some members may avoid this thread (if I’m being frank I don’t blame them.)

    More than anything else I’m just tired of all the pointless back and forth arguments surrounding Craig’s era. It’s time to move on.

    Well, it is a thread entitled 'where does Bond go after Craig' to be completely fair. Don't disagree, for some fans maybe it's better looking forward as opposed to what they like or don't about films from 5+ years ago. But at the same time there's not much else we can do apart from discuss it in the relevant threads.

    Yeah. I think so too. It's an active thread and so far everyone has behaved well with a healthy dose of etiquette, amid the high-octane discussions. I think the last time we experienced members really losing it, was the Covid/NTTD release problem. Some members lost their cool then and got kicked out.
  • @007HallY and @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷
    For me it’s less that the conversations are being had but more the inability of certain people to move past the movies they don’t like and accept them for what they are, especially when they offer very little to almost no insight into what they would like out of the next guy’s era.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,270
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    The same people who say Bond is timeless are should never cater to specific cultural trends are the same ones who say a comedic bond film wouldn't work in this day and age because "audiences have moved on", so which is it?

    It really depends on what you mean by a comedic Bond film I suppose. I’d say Bond movies all have a mixture of the dark and the light, and Bond is essentially escapism at the end of the day.

    It’s also worth saying that jumping on a trend isn’t always the same as trying to create the best film possible for new audiences.

    But "create the best film for new audiences" and appealing to Gen Z are just two different formulations with the same underlying meaning.

    Again, it depends on what you mean.

    If you mean a ‘comedic’ Bond film in the sense it’s more along the lines of something like MR (ie. Bit of an illogical plot, self referential humour, but big on spectacle) it depends as well. I don’t think a subsequent Bond film will ever be exactly like any of the others that came before it. Every Bond is unique in its own way. Roger Moore era esque humour was there in both SP and NTTD but those are quite dark films in their own way. I think for a new actor’s first outing they’ll want to play it a bit more straight with a slightly more hardboiled story, albeit with a good bit of Bondian humour (witty lines, a few visual gags etc. I can’t see the next film going into ‘Bond riding in a gondola to classical music’ levels of outrageousness or Tarzan yells or whatever).

    It just comes down to what story they want to tell and how best to tell it.

    Essentially the horse has to start pulling the cart again, and not the other way around.

    I think Skyfall just about gets away with it (even if Silvas villainous scheme dissipates into nothing more than revenge against M by the end, again more personal stakes), but if you look at the 2 films released since 2012, they both suffer from the same chronic problem. You could say that EON saw the widespread acclaim that Skyfall had and took the lesson that from now on Bond films have to first and foremost be about Bond and what he is dealing with emotionally before they're about the earthly danger hes intent on preventing. Rather than resulting from a confluence of the right director coming along and having the right story to tell, now exploring Bond's emotional journey is a MUST. The problem is not every film needs that, indeed some films are better off without it. Imagine Live And Let Die in 1973, but it needed a tortured, uncertain Bond at the centre. It would ruin the lighthearted, funky tone of the adventure entirely. Imagine if during The Spy Who Loved Me Bond is still mourning Tracy and drinking himself into a stupor everynight, it would completely clash with the Jaws ripping doors off vans and underwater car antics the rest of the film going for. And that's essentially what has happened with the last 2 Craig films in my view, which are perfectly competent romp adventure films that are held captive to an unwelcome air of angst and unease which doesn't appear to improve the stories much at all. SP could be a straightforward Bond adventure where through following up a lead Bond comes across Mr White, who agrees to give Bond information about SPECTRE in exchange that he keeps his daughter safe, then the two fall in love and ride off together, the end. Technically speaking ofcourse all of that does happen, but it is weighted down by so much extraneous stuff which seems not to add much of anything except put a dampener on things. Bond's backstory with Blofeld is obvious, staring at a photo, cuckoo, but also theres commentary on government bureaucracy and the surveillance state between M and Denbigh, Madeline lay on a bed drunk taunting Bond, just lots of stuff to give the impression that there's more going on than there actually is. By the end of the film it's a standard bond blows up the villains base, beats the ticking clock type of story, so why not at least be up front about it, and take that approach from the beginning?

    Each Bond film is a product of its time and the perceived success or failure of the previous film, and of course hindsight is 20/20! You can't retrofit or time-travel SP's tone in 2015 onto 1973 or 1977. It was a completely different marketplace.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 19 Posts: 6,270
    Benny wrote: »

    Remember the most recent Bond film is 5 years old in terms of when the cameras were actually rolling.

    And?

    All I can say is, thank the maker some of you weren't around for the hiatus from LTK to GE.

    No internet to raise your anger over. Snippets of info in newspapers and magazines. But mostly zero Bond for six years, with no way of knowing when it would end and we'd see another Bond film.
    Yet we survived.

    Strange how everyone keeps forgetting that we also endured a once-in-a-century (I hope) pandemic that obviously delayed NTTD *and* Bond 26.

    @Benny. So true. I was a teenager during the LTK-GE gap, and boy was it bleak! I would look in Variety in the library for the slightest snippet of information...basically, nothing for years and years. And to be honest, I was less interested in the series by the time GE came around (I was very invested in TLD and LTK, especially coming on the heels of AVTAK).

    That being said, regardless of their merits or demerits, GE is one of the most important films for the franchise's longevity, along with TSWLM and DAF.

    [sarcasm] We were tough kids in the '80s! I wonder if some of the younger members here could survive the 1989-1995 gap. [/sarcasm]

    Everyone should relax. James Bond will return.

    Sorry for the double post.
  • Posts: 1,967
    Where Does Bond Go After Craig? None of us know, so we should shut the hell up. That's what I am getting from a lot of the comments. Perhaps whomever first posed the question should edit it and ask Where Should Bond Go After Craig.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,980
    @007HallY and @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷
    For me it’s less that the conversations are being had but more the inability of certain people to move past the movies they don’t like and accept them for what they are, especially when they offer very little to almost no insight into what they would like out of the next guy’s era.

    Oh, I get that @007ClassicBondFan I think the simple reason for repetition such as that is, there isn't any major Bond 26 update to discuss. But surely, once an announcement is made concerning Bond 26, that would be the centre of attention.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,150
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Every time that I see that there are a lot of posts in this thread, I think a big announcement has been made. Sadly, it seems that a certain individual or two getting into the same arguments. At the risk of being booed or kicked off the site, I think it might be wise to shut down this thread for awhile. At least until we get some official news. Certain people's speculation has turned into fact in their minds. It may be time for this thread to take a break. Sorry to give my viewpoints.

    Why would you be kicked off the site? You're absolutely correct, @MaxCasino. While some are working hard to keep interesting albeit speculative conversation going, this is mostly where disgruntlement over the current hiatus and previous films has found yet another stage.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Where Does Bond Go After Craig? None of us know, so we should shut the hell up. That's what I am getting from a lot of the comments. Perhaps whomever first posed the question should edit it and ask Where Should Bond Go After Craig.

    Makes sense 😅
  • Gen z? Who cares about appealing to a so called younger demographic. Be true to the character. That’s all I’m bothered about.
  • Posts: 1,306
    echo wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »

    Remember the most recent Bond film is 5 years old in terms of when the cameras were actually rolling.

    And?

    All I can say is, thank the maker some of you weren't around for the hiatus from LTK to GE.

    No internet to raise your anger over. Snippets of info in newspapers and magazines. But mostly zero Bond for six years, with no way of knowing when it would end and we'd see another Bond film.
    Yet we survived.

    Strange how everyone keeps forgetting that we also endured a once-in-a-century (I hope) pandemic that obviously delayed NTTD *and* Bond 26.

    @Benny. So true. I was a teenager during the LTK-GE gap, and boy was it bleak! I would look in Variety in the library for the slightest snippet of information...basically, nothing for years and years. And to be honest, I was less interested in the series by the time GE came around (I was very invested in TLD and LTK, especially coming on the heels of AVTAK).

    That being said, regardless of their merits or demerits, GE is one of the most important films for the franchise's longevity, along with TSWLM and DAF.

    [sarcasm] We were tough kids in the '80s! I wonder if some of the younger members here could survive the 1989-1995 gap. [/sarcasm]

    Everyone should relax. James Bond will return.

    Sorry for the double post.

    I thought the series was dead and I don't think anyone cared too much. Even GE needed to justify its own existence.

    Bad times, that's for sure.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    edited September 19 Posts: 95
    "Gen Z won't accept a fun bond film, they won't like it, better just stick to how EON does things now."

    Meanwhile, what is being made:

    What if the movie will bomb, though? Or you can see the future somehow (that'd be impressive for someone who doesn't even know the title of a Bond movie whose title was revealed five years ago)?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,302
    Gen z? Who cares about appealing to a so called younger demographic. Be true to the character. That’s all I’m bothered about.

    Pretty sure the series appealed to a younger demographic right from the start: otherwise that Corgi DB5 wouldn't have been the toy all the kids had. I don't think there's anything wrong with aiming a film at its audience.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    edited September 19 Posts: 933
    Is Gen Z the film’s target audience, though? I think they’ll be trying for as big a demographic range as possible. The game, if successful, will up Bond’s profile with the younger generation, and I think diverse casting and a less shallow approach to female characters will be happening regardless of the target demographic. I think callbacks of some description (eg the DB5) will be put in for long-term fans. One foot in the past, the other in the future, that’s probably always going to be the way. They need to appeal to as many people as possible.
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