Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 99
    Aren't all films from the 2010's dated now, compared to modern stuff? I'm sure the upcoming Jurassic World Rebirth will also look better than the other Jurassic World films visually. Technology and the cinematography, lighting, editing game is always progressing.

    Remember the most recent Bond film is 5 years old in terms of when the cameras were actually rolling.

    The original Star Wars trilogy aged better than the prequel trilogy even though the latter came out 20 years later.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 19 Posts: 16,498
    Is Gen Z the film’s target audience, though? I think they’ll be trying for as big a demographic range as possible.

    One is a subset of the other, yes.
    If you can aim at kids (the Corgi toy) as well as adults (the golden girl) then you've cracked it. Same situation today. Blimey, they picked Billie Eilish to do the theme for the last one, it's not new thinking.

    I think the question is more why wouldn't they want to aim it at Gen Z, and all the other gens too? Scara74 asked who cares, well the people who are putting hundreds of millions into the thing care.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 945
    Okay, maybe we’re talking at cross purposes. I’m saying I don’t imagine they’ll prioritise the Gen Z market over others to the extent where they’ll alter Bond’s character, which appears to be the worry for some users here.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 19 Posts: 16,498
    I don't think they will either, just tweak the thing, as you mentioned and aim at as many as possible. Turning a demographic off it just doesn't make any sense.

    To be honest I think NTTD already has quite a lot of that: Bond isn't horrendously sexist at any point in it really, doesn't do anything which anyone would describe as outrageously toxic or misogynistic. The character has already been tweaked, and all of these folk who get angry at the idea of him changing didn't even notice.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 945
    Ha, now I can’t help think you’re trolling, you must be aware that lots of users here complained about Bond not sleeping with Paloma etc in NTTD. I do think that’s something of a special case for NTTD, though I wouldn’t mind if Bond stuck to only pairing off with one woman for the majority of films in the future as it often feels like a box-ticking exercise when 007 seduces the first Bond-girl in a film.
  • Posts: 1,394
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't think they will either, just tweak the thing, as you mentioned and aim at as many as possible. Turning a demographic off it just doesn't make any sense.

    To be honest I think NTTD already has quite a lot of that: Bond isn't horrendously sexist at any point in it really, doesn't do anything which anyone would describe as outrageously toxic or misogynistic. The character has already been tweaked, and all of these folk who get angry at the idea of him changing didn't even notice.

    Who didn't notice? Everyone saw daddy Bond
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,498
    Ha, now I can’t help think you’re trolling, you must be aware that lots of users here complained about Bond not sleeping with Paloma etc in NTTD.

    Genuinely don't remember that. Mostly I just recall people wanting her to be in it more.

    I don't think he's even that different from Spectre really. He's pretty caring and respectful in that. You have to go back to Skyfall where some workplace lawsuits would be flying about.
  • Posts: 2,008
    Perhaps the next Bond can be a spy and priest. Then we won't have to worry about Bond having sex.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,543
    I keep hearing rumours that some sort of announcement is going to be made in November. Well according to Ajay Choudhury anyway. Im also awaiting news on what’s going to happen about Bonds 60th anniversary as nothing much seemed to happen at the time.

    Isn't this based on the assumption that they will mention B26 when accepting the Thalberg Award in November?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 19 Posts: 16,498
    This kind of thing:
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Perhaps the next Bond can be a spy and priest. Then we won't have to worry about Bond having sex.
    sort of demonstrates what I mean about some folks not noticing that he's already changed, for the last ten years or so. Personally I thought he still felt like 007, still had sex with ladies, but without some of the stuff which raises eyebrows a bit more in hindsight from the older films.
    It's kind of like how he changed over the course of Roger's films: the smoking faded out, he became less nasty, a bit more caring and respectful... still stayed James Bond. It was fine.
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    I keep hearing rumours that some sort of announcement is going to be made in November. Well according to Ajay Choudhury anyway. Im also awaiting news on what’s going to happen about Bonds 60th anniversary as nothing much seemed to happen at the time.

    Isn't this based on the assumption that they will mention B26 when accepting the Thalberg Award in November?

    Yeah that was what Ajay said he thought would happen. I don't know if he had a source or that or it was just a hope.
  • edited September 19 Posts: 3,278
    mtm wrote: »
    Personally I thought he still felt like 007.
    Yes, indeed. He surely felt like James Bond. They just removed much of what was fun about the character and turned him into a politically correct family man who wants nothing to do with the life of glamour, gambling, globetrotting and girls.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,498
    I think I saw a different movie: those things were all in the one I saw (maybe not gambling, but he doesn't do that in every one).
  • Posts: 4,226
    Personally, I thought he was still very much the Bond we know in NTTD. Maybe at a certain point in his life, but still Bond.

    I can imagine the next film having a much more 'traditional' Bond (ie. in his prime, bedding a few women, less jaded/reflective initially etc. Not dissimilar to how he came across in CR). But I also suspect there'll be a portion of people who'll complain about the next Bond regardless!
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't think they will either, just tweak the thing, as you mentioned and aim at as many as possible. Turning a demographic off it just doesn't make any sense.

    To be honest I think NTTD already has quite a lot of that: Bond isn't horrendously sexist at any point in it really, doesn't do anything which anyone would describe as outrageously toxic or misogynistic. The character has already been tweaked, and all of these folk who get angry at the idea of him changing didn't even notice.

    I can imagine a scenario where the next Bond film acknowledges that Bond can/has to be a bit of a b*stard in his profession and have him have to confront that. Something more or less like Bond coldly saying for that Natalya means nothing to him in GE, or his seduction of Agent Fields leading to her death in QOS.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 19 Posts: 16,498
    007HallY wrote: »
    But I also suspect there'll be a portion of people who'll complain about the next Bond regardless!

    I think that is assured.
    007HallY wrote: »
    I can imagine a scenario where the next Bond film acknowledges that Bond can/has to be a bit of a b*stard in his profession and have him have to confront that. Something more or less like Bond coldly saying for that Natalya means nothing to him in GE, or his seduction of Agent Fields leading to her death in QOS.

    Yeah I absolutely think a bit coldness is always a good element and I don't see why that would be going anywhere.
    Although I'm not sure he was all that cold with Fields: he seemed to really regret that and even got a bit angry. Maybe more Solange's death, he was colder there.
    I think the coldness with Sévérine threw people a bit: although it was just Bond trying to throw Silva off balance, his making a joke at her death was a bit of a lot to give to the audience in a short space of time. I don't think it went down great.
  • Posts: 4,226
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    But I also suspect there'll be a portion of people who'll complain about the next Bond regardless!

    I think that is assured.
    007HallY wrote: »
    I can imagine a scenario where the next Bond film acknowledges that Bond can/has to be a bit of a b*stard in his profession and have him have to confront that. Something more or less like Bond coldly saying for that Natalya means nothing to him in GE, or his seduction of Agent Fields leading to her death in QOS.

    Yeah I absolutely think a bit coldness is always a good element and I don't see why that would be going anywhere.
    Although I'm not sure he was all that cold with Fields: he seemed to really regret that and even got a bit angry. Maybe more Solange's death, he was colder there.
    I think the coldness with Sévérine threw people a bit: although it was just Bond trying to throw Silva off balance, his making a joke at her death was a bit of a lot to give to the audience in a short space of time. I don't think it went down great.

    Yeah, he had to put on much more of a front with Solonge and Severine's deaths. But I do like his reaction to Field's death. It's very subtle but it's interesting seeing Bond have to face the consequences of some of his methods.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,223
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Personally I thought he still felt like 007.
    Yes, indeed. He surely felt like James Bond. They just removed much of what was fun about the character and turned him into a politically correct family man who wants nothing to do with the life of glamour, gambling, globetrotting and girls.

    What do you people think he was doing for the five years in Jamaica? Do we think he was living like a monk? He might not have been globetrotting, but he was certainly living a relaxing lifestyle and evidently bedding lots of women if his initial vibes with Nomi were anything to go by.

    They didn't remove anything. The new stuff was added on top of what exists in a way that made sense.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 19 Posts: 3,154
    Over on CraigIsNotBond, they were once arguing that not only had Bond been emasculated by riding behind Nomi on the scooter, but that Bond wouldn't eat in the street or with his fingers! I'm not so sure about that - Bond's upper middle class (in the British sense), he's not bound by those kind of lower middle class social-climber mannerisms. ;)
    Maybe he had been living like a monk in Jamaica, though - at least relative to his earlier life. Fukunaga said that he even decided not to include Bond having a gardener because he wanted to emphasise just how isolated and alone he'd become in Jamaica. I'd've liked to have seen a bit more of that brooding Bond, tbh.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,498
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Personally I thought he still felt like 007.
    Yes, indeed. He surely felt like James Bond. They just removed much of what was fun about the character and turned him into a politically correct family man who wants nothing to do with the life of glamour, gambling, globetrotting and girls.

    What do you people think he was doing for the five years in Jamaica? Do we think he was living like a monk? He might not have been globetrotting, but he was certainly living a relaxing lifestyle and evidently bedding lots of women if his initial vibes with Nomi were anything to go by.

    They didn't remove anything. The new stuff was added on top of what exists in a way that made sense.

    👍
  • Posts: 4,226
    Venutius wrote: »
    Over on CraigIsNotBond, they were once arguing that not only had Bond been emasculated by riding behind Nomi on the scooter, but that Bond wouldn't eat in the street or with his fingers! I'm not so sure about that - Bond's upper middle class (in the British sense), he's not bound by those kind of lower middle class social-climber mannerisms. ;)

    CraigIsNotBond is a thing past 2006? Wow...
  • I'm currently reading Moonraker for the fist time ever and I have decided that Bond 26 MUST be a faithful adaptation of this novel. No ifs, ands, or buts.
  • Posts: 3,278
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Personally I thought he still felt like 007.
    Yes, indeed. He surely felt like James Bond. They just removed much of what was fun about the character and turned him into a politically correct family man who wants nothing to do with the life of glamour, gambling, globetrotting and girls.

    What do you people think he was doing for the five years in Jamaica? Do we think he was living like a monk? He might not have been globetrotting, but he was certainly living a relaxing lifestyle and evidently bedding lots of women if his initial vibes with Nomi were anything to go by.

    They didn't remove anything. The new stuff was added on top of what exists in a way that made sense.
    Oh yes, that secluded hidden and relaxing laid back lifestyle on a beach. What a way to add new stuff to a man who used to be a man of the World. Didn't they already do that in SF? There's a limit to how much new stuff they can make him do and be. I just want the fun back. Crazy gadgets, Roger Moore oneliners... I don't know. Just not as serious as NTTD, that's for sure.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited November 1 Posts: 693
    [DELETED]
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,223
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Personally I thought he still felt like 007.
    Yes, indeed. He surely felt like James Bond. They just removed much of what was fun about the character and turned him into a politically correct family man who wants nothing to do with the life of glamour, gambling, globetrotting and girls.

    What do you people think he was doing for the five years in Jamaica? Do we think he was living like a monk? He might not have been globetrotting, but he was certainly living a relaxing lifestyle and evidently bedding lots of women if his initial vibes with Nomi were anything to go by.

    They didn't remove anything. The new stuff was added on top of what exists in a way that made sense.
    Oh yes, that secluded hidden and relaxing laid back lifestyle on a beach.

    Yeah. Sounds great, right? Especially for a man in his 50s. I'd love it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    007HallY wrote: »
    I too am awaiting the next zany and upbeat version of The Batman Part 2 (based of course on 'Gen Z' demand for some reason, presumably because the first one is two years old and this is the trend now, despite the previous film's success). I am also awaiting this particular movie by Bong Joon-Ho (a director known for his drama mixed with overt black comedy/irony which has nothing to do with this trailer which is in a very particular genre. This next film of his will be a lighthearted romp much like Moonraker and this is what Gen Z want to see). [
    mtm wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Personally I thought he still felt like 007.
    Yes, indeed. He surely felt like James Bond. They just removed much of what was fun about the character and turned him into a politically correct family man who wants nothing to do with the life of glamour, gambling, globetrotting and girls.

    What do you people think he was doing for the five years in Jamaica? Do we think he was living like a monk? He might not have been globetrotting, but he was certainly living a relaxing lifestyle and evidently bedding lots of women if his initial vibes with Nomi were anything to go by.

    They didn't remove anything. The new stuff was added on top of what exists in a way that made sense.

    👍

    Agree @CraigMooreOHMSS ...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,498
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Personally I thought he still felt like 007.
    Yes, indeed. He surely felt like James Bond. They just removed much of what was fun about the character and turned him into a politically correct family man who wants nothing to do with the life of glamour, gambling, globetrotting and girls.

    What do you people think he was doing for the five years in Jamaica? Do we think he was living like a monk? He might not have been globetrotting, but he was certainly living a relaxing lifestyle and evidently bedding lots of women if his initial vibes with Nomi were anything to go by.

    They didn't remove anything. The new stuff was added on top of what exists in a way that made sense.
    Oh yes, that secluded hidden and relaxing laid back lifestyle on a beach.

    Yeah. Sounds great, right? Especially for a man in his 50s. I'd love it.

    Absolutely, worked for Ian Fleming too. Zek obviously agrees as he said it was a way of adding new stuff to him.
  • Posts: 385
    Burgess wrote: »
    I just don't understand why every Bond film now needs a prestige filmmaker at the helm nowadays. Sam Mendes, then Danny Boyle was intended for B25, now Chazelle? It just seems strange for a series about a spy in a tuxedo saving the world from a superweapon.

    If visions align, why shouldn't EON pursue the best director their money can buy? We live in a time where the delineated line between genre movies and prestige films is slighlty blurred. Artist of all pedigrees want to work.

    Yeah but the Danny Boyle thing happened and Boyle doesn't look like a snob or anything.

    Sometimes, visions that look 20/20 in the beginning, become blurred and incongruous over time. It happens more often than you think. The seemingly quick turnaround between the separation from Boyle and the hiring of Fukunaga heavily suggests that things were in motion well before the reporting. I believe QOS's original director either left the film a week or two before production started or a couple weeks into production.

  • Posts: 342
    Bond has always revolved around the essence of life - sex and death.

    If the character ever moves away from sex and death, then it’s no long a Bond film.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 19 Posts: 3,154
    Burgess wrote: »
    The seemingly quick turnaround between the separation from Boyle and the hiring of Fukunaga heavily suggests that things were in motion well before the reporting. I believe QOS's original director either left the film a week or two before production started or a couple weeks into production.
    Yeah, sort of but the timescale's a bit longer. Roger Michell (who'd directed two of Craig's indie films) was announced as director in July 2006, but quit in October that same year because EON had a release date but didn't have a script! P&W didn't finish their version til April 2007 and they'd been working on it since Craig was announced in October 2005, according to MGW! EON asked Paul Haggis to direct as well as write, but he cried off because he didn't feel he could handle both on something on the scale of a Bond film. Forster was then hired in June 2007, so 10 months or so after Michell walked.
  • Posts: 2,008
    This kind of thing CrabKey wrote demonstrates what I mean about some folks not noticing that he's already changed.

    That's the point. People have noticed.
  • Posts: 1,860
    Aren't all films from the 2010's dated now, compared to modern stuff? I'm sure the upcoming Jurassic World Rebirth will also look better than the other Jurassic World films visually. Technology and the cinematography, lighting, editing game is always progressing.

    Remember the most recent Bond film is 5 years old in terms of when the cameras were actually rolling.

    But yet the original Jurassic Park is still better in all respects than any of the sequels. I'd say the same of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Tech progresses but can't trump a classic story.
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