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Would you rather spend time in Venice with Tatiana (FRWL) OR Vesper (CR 06)

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,521
    I'd go for the manuscript, especially if it had some of his pen on paper edits and rewrites
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 2,943
    Neither are my thing really. I wouldn’t get much interest in having old props lying around, and as much as I love the novels I prefer not to get bogged down too much in what Fleming said about them (same for any author really - I think it’s best just taking the text as it is. I don’t think I’d get anything out of seeing Fleming’s handwritten notes/revisions).

    I guess if I had to pick it would be the props, but only because they’re good for showing off and their value can only go up… but honestly, I prefer stuff I buy to be functional.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,042
    A small screen-used prop would do it for me.

    I'd value the manuscript even more, but with concerns for its care and how to preserve it for perpetuity. And so that's best left to others.
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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,980
    I'll take the manuscript, of CR, of course.
  • Reflsin2bourbonsReflsin2bourbons
    Posts: 89
    For me it has to be a Fleming manuscript, maybe one even pre-edited if possible.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,944
    Both.

    "Wait, what? Ya can't have both-- that's not how the game is played!" - The Dove

    You choose the manuscript, ending the 'Would You Rather' contract. Then you photocopy that and re-sell the orig and then buy the prop. Then you copy the prop and re-sell the orig and the replicas to buy more manuscripts... 😅 It's the circle of life, or whatever.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,108
    I worry about owning anything too unique and valuable. Would I store it properly? Shouldn't it be on display to the world? Should I lend it to a museum? Does my home insurance cover it?

    That said, manuscript all the way (Moonraker for choice)...unless, of course, the prop has been handled by Timothy Dalton.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,982
    QBranch wrote: »
    Both.

    "Wait, what? Ya can't have both-- that's not how the game is played!" - The Dove

    You choose the manuscript, ending the 'Would You Rather' contract. Then you photocopy that and re-sell the orig and then buy the prop. Then you copy the prop and re-sell the orig and the replicas to buy more manuscripts... 😅 It's the circle of life, or whatever.

    Delightful! LOL! I love the direct quote too! :)

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,813
    It would definitely have to be the original Fleming manuscript of Moonraker, my favourite James Bond novel. I'd love to see Fleming's writing on it, the corrections and parts of the text that were added or removed. I love all that academic stuff and to have something like that is akin to a Bondian Holy Grail.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,976
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I though say, if we're talking about the Fleming books, I might've go with Vesper.

    The literary Tracy is annoying, she's unlikeable: she's opportunistic, hysterical, self pitying, selfish, self indulgent, arrogant, childish, moody and just messed up.

    Meanwhile, the literary Vesper is more interesting as a character: she's cold, aloof, sophisticated, mysterious, matured, cynical, independent, and professional. She also hides her emotions under her sleeve (just like Bond himself).

    If I'm a man, I'd rather date someone like Vesper than with Tracy in the books, at least Vesper would never give me problems like Tracy.

    I'm not so sure. Vesper, when they're off together on their 'holiday', also sometimes seems hysterical, suddenly closed, then indulgent. Bond is getting utterly confused. At the same time Tracy is, indeed, at the start utterly broken, but when she's got a new goal in life (Bond), she goes all-in.

    I think I like Tracy better because she sticks to her plans. First she indulges in self-destruction, but when Bond arrives, she decides to change course, and when she does she does it wholeheartedly.
    Vesper, on the other hand, keeps on dissapearing from Bond. Emotionally wrecking him.

    I'll stick to Tracy, both cinematically and literally (funny, that. Don't let my wife read this!. )

    But I see Vesper and Bond lasting together than he would with Tracy, I mean Vesper is more emotionally matured than Tracy, they understand each other.

    For me Tracy is marked for me by the way her previous relationship with that Italian Count played, and also her backstory.
    Tracy wouldn't understand Bond (she fell for him, because like what I've said, she's opportunistic, she saw Bond as a way to cover a hole, Bond is always giving to her wishes, she's a spoiled brat girl unlike her film version, I could even see a situation that if Bond deny her wishes, she would be hysterical and throwing tantrums like a child, and when she's not satisfied with Bond, she would possibly left him).

    The Literary/Fleming's Tracy for me is the same as Lupe Lamora in Licence To Kill, she saw Bond as a way of escaping from her problems, but once it gets back to normal where Bond couldn't provide what she wanted, she would've left him.

    Vesper may have been like that in the end, but had they resolved the problem together, I think it would've been better in the long run, I think their relationship would've last, because Vesper is more understanding and matured, I mean look at how she sacrificed herself for her boyfriend whose held hostage by SMERSH, I know Vesper still loved that guy, only for it to be complicated once Bond got in the way, I think Vesper can love a man very genuinely, I think she really loved Bond.

    Tracy for me didn't deeply loved Bond as much as Vesper, she saw Bond as a man who could give her anything she wants, she saw Bond as her paradise (well, she met him at the midst of her destruction, she's broken when she met Bond, so she fell in love with him very easily), but once it gets back to normal again, I doubt Tracy would've really love Bond, (she's a bit immature, she could be a lot worse as her relationship with Bond goes for long).

    And it didn't helped that Bond's relationship with Tracy was brief, and happened far and between, they barely saw each other because Bond was busy with Blofeld, so as a result, they didn't got to know each other, Tracy have yet to know Bond fully, she didn't know Bond yet (his personality and all), she saw Bond as her savior, but aside from that, there's nothing she knew about Bond.

    Unlike Vesper who knew Bond inside and out, she knew Bond's personality, his attitude, and all, she had got a chance to know Bond fully because she's been with him for a very long time.

    Unlike in the film where Tracy was played for the better, she and Bond spent a long time together, they had a lot of moments together, so I think Tracy got to know Bond fully in the film, and it helped that Tracy was way more matured in the film, she's not acting childish and pitiful as she was in the book, so I think her relationship with Bond would've last for long had she survived in the end, she's way more understanding in the film, so their relationship could've worked.

    That's not the same with Vesper in the film, because the romance, as how it's played out in the film, was rushed, so it's hard to see their relationship last long, they didn't have much time together where they could got a chance to know each other.

    I agree on the outcome, but will defend Tracy's behaviour, as she was an utterly broken girl. The folley with the count is seen by Draco as a folley to pite him, but that isn't necessarily so. However, if she loved him, he definately betrayed her, and after that, and then losing her child, there was little left of her. At the same time, Bond always wants to save the 'bird with a wing down'. So it certainly attracted him a lot. But as you say, that might not be a stable basis for a relationship..
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,976
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I though say, if we're talking about the Fleming books, I might've go with Vesper.

    The literary Tracy is annoying, she's unlikeable: she's opportunistic, hysterical, self pitying, selfish, self indulgent, arrogant, childish, moody and just messed up.

    Meanwhile, the literary Vesper is more interesting as a character: she's cold, aloof, sophisticated, mysterious, matured, cynical, independent, and professional. She also hides her emotions under her sleeve (just like Bond himself).

    If I'm a man, I'd rather date someone like Vesper than with Tracy in the books, at least Vesper would never give me problems like Tracy.

    I'm not so sure. Vesper, when they're off together on their 'holiday', also sometimes seems hysterical, suddenly closed, then indulgent. Bond is getting utterly confused. At the same time Tracy is, indeed, at the start utterly broken, but when she's got a new goal in life (Bond), she goes all-in.

    I think I like Tracy better because she sticks to her plans. First she indulges in self-destruction, but when Bond arrives, she decides to change course, and when she does she does it wholeheartedly.
    Vesper, on the other hand, keeps on dissapearing from Bond. Emotionally wrecking him.

    I'll stick to Tracy, both cinematically and literally (funny, that. Don't let my wife read this!. )

    But I see Vesper and Bond lasting together than he would with Tracy, I mean Vesper is more emotionally matured than Tracy, they understand each other.

    For me Tracy is marked for me by the way her previous relationship with that Italian Count played, and also her backstory.
    Tracy wouldn't understand Bond (she fell for him, because like what I've said, she's opportunistic, she saw Bond as a way to cover a hole, Bond is always giving to her wishes, she's a spoiled brat girl unlike her film version, I could even see a situation that if Bond deny her wishes, she would be hysterical and throwing tantrums like a child, and when she's not satisfied with Bond, she would possibly left him).

    The Literary/Fleming's Tracy for me is the same as Lupe Lamora in Licence To Kill, she saw Bond as a way of escaping from her problems, but once it gets back to normal where Bond couldn't provide what she wanted, she would've left him.

    Vesper may have been like that in the end, but had they resolved the problem together, I think it would've been better in the long run, I think their relationship would've last, because Vesper is more understanding and matured, I mean look at how she sacrificed herself for her boyfriend whose held hostage by SMERSH, I know Vesper still loved that guy, only for it to be complicated once Bond got in the way, I think Vesper can love a man very genuinely, I think she really loved Bond.

    Tracy for me didn't deeply loved Bond as much as Vesper, she saw Bond as a man who could give her anything she wants, she saw Bond as her paradise (well, she met him at the midst of her destruction, she's broken when she met Bond, so she fell in love with him very easily), but once it gets back to normal again, I doubt Tracy would've really love Bond, (she's a bit immature, she could be a lot worse as her relationship with Bond goes for long).

    And it didn't helped that Bond's relationship with Tracy was brief, and happened far and between, they barely saw each other because Bond was busy with Blofeld, so as a result, they didn't got to know each other, Tracy have yet to know Bond fully, she didn't know Bond yet (his personality and all), she saw Bond as her savior, but aside from that, there's nothing she knew about Bond.

    Unlike Vesper who knew Bond inside and out, she knew Bond's personality, his attitude, and all, she had got a chance to know Bond fully because she's been with him for a very long time.

    Unlike in the film where Tracy was played for the better, she and Bond spent a long time together, they had a lot of moments together, so I think Tracy got to know Bond fully in the film, and it helped that Tracy was way more matured in the film, she's not acting childish and pitiful as she was in the book, so I think her relationship with Bond would've last for long had she survived in the end, she's way more understanding in the film, so their relationship could've worked.

    That's not the same with Vesper in the film, because the romance, as how it's played out in the film, was rushed, so it's hard to see their relationship last long, they didn't have much time together where they could got a chance to know each other.

    I agree on the outcome, but will defend Tracy's behaviour, as she was an utterly broken girl. The folley with the count is seen by Draco as a folley to pite him, but that isn't necessarily so. However, if she loved him, he definately betrayed her, and after that, and then losing her child, there was little left of her. At the same time, Bond always wants to save the 'bird with a wing down'. So it certainly attracted him a lot. But as you say, that might not be a stable basis for a relationship..
    If the props include the cars, I'll go for the DBS that Lazenby drove, or Dalton's V8. Oterwise, I'd be happy with a manuscript from one of the early films. I think that's certainly something worth reading a couple of times.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,982
    Having a car used in a film would be the ultimate collector item. Good call @CommanderRoss

    I think I would lean towards the movie prop too, I always wanted to own the mini camera from Moonraker. Cheesy but l loved it as a kid.

    Lets move on to another would you rather. This one concerns a trope of the ending of the films.

    Starting with GF and continuing thru DAF we ended the third act with Bond, and usually, the US military helping him bring down the Villains. These were huge battles that involved tons of stunt men and women. The volcano fight between the Ninjas and SPECTRE army is one highlight of the film. Films that feature a melee ending: GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, Spy, MR, OP, TLD, NTTD

    However we have had some films that have gone with something quieter. Maybe it was Bond or a small team taking on the villain in their lair. I think of LALD, TMWTGG, FYEO, AVTAK, LTK, GE, TND, TWINE, DAD, CR, QOS, SF, SP. All had endings where no huge melee occurred.

    So what do you prefer?

    Would you rather the movie end with a huge melee OR end with a strike team and smaller scale battle?

    Of your favourite films do they feature a melee? Or do you prefer the films that have Bond being more a one man army?
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 2,943
    I tend to prefer the idea that Bond is genuinely alone when going face to face with the villain at the end of a film. But a melee can work too if the stakes are high enough.

    Personally I’d prefer to see Bond going it alone during the climax of the next one, but have a melee in the one after.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    thedove wrote: »
    Would you rather the movie end with a huge melee OR end with a strike team and smaller scale battle?

    Since my favorite final battle is the confrontation between Tanaka's and SPECTRE's ninjas in the hollowed out volcano in YOLT(honorary mention to TB's underwater battle, OHMSS's Piz Gloria assault, TSWLM's Liparus battle and MR's outer space battle), I would say huge melee for me.
    thedove wrote: »
    Of your favourite films do they feature a melee? Or do you prefer the films that have Bond being more a one man army?

    DN, FRWL and CR'06 are films in my top 10 that have Bond being a one man army. The remaining 7 feature melees of I would say I'm definitely a pro-huge melee fan.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2023 Posts: 14,980
    I find the big army battles a bit dull to be honest. Just watching countless stuntmen add to their showreel by jumping off trampolines away from grenades. The smaller scale ones always work better for my money.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited December 2023 Posts: 4,982
    Interesting how that one played out. Seems we don't have passion as a community on the types of endings of a Bond film.

    Lets try this one, to see if people have opinions one way or another.

    From 1962 to 1985 the films would end with a hint of what was to come. The iconic "James Bond will return in..." with the title of the next film. As they were based on the books of Fleming it was a nice way to get the audience excited for the next feature. Over this time there were a few mistakes...At the end of TSWLM it was announced that FYEO was the next Bond film. At the end of OP it was announced that James Bond will return in From a View to a Kill. But overall they were accurate and in some cases fun. Once the films started using original titles the practice went away, now we get simply "James Bond will Return". Not as sexy as announcing the title of the next film.

    So here is the question for the community:

    Would you rather going forward that the end credits feature "James Bond will return" OR don't have" James Bond will return" since no title is announced?

    In other words should the next film(s) not feature "James Bond will return". After all it's pretty much a given he will return. He even died in the last one and they still announced James Bond will return. But really do we need this?

    Why not eliminate this as they don't announce the next film but simply state "James Bond will return". It's kind of bland and doesn't really signify anything other than another film is coming.


    Share you thoughts and ideas around the "James Bond will return" end credit mention.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2023 Posts: 14,980
    Oh I think it’s fun, isn’t it? I like it.
    I guess you’re right that it does no harm to reconsider these things once in a while, but I think I’d vote to keep it.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited December 2023 Posts: 1,373
    I think it's as important as the film itself. Imagine a would-be dirge like NTTD, ending without James Bond will Return. It would have upset fans even more. James Bond will return is the reason some fans endure NTTD's ending. Barbara and Michael know it, that's why it even vibrates a bit on screen. Almost like an apology to Bond fans and way of giving us hope that our hero is alive somewhere....even if we just witnessed him being blown up.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,271
    I'd like it to be kept for sure. If NTTD has it, given the way it ends, I don't see why any other one wouldn't!
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,818
    I want JAMES BOND WILL RETURN followed by the title of the next film to be released 2 years later.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,982
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I want JAMES BOND WILL RETURN followed by the title of the next film to be released 2 years later.

    God I would love this! Or even if they don't want to stick to a 2 year schedule, how about James Bond will return in 2025, or 2026 or whatever year the next one is coming out. Might put too much pressure on the producers. LOL!
  • mattjoesmattjoes
    Posts: 6,740
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I want JAMES BOND WILL RETURN followed by the title of the next film to be released 2 years later.

    Me too.

    7267ec7f-37bc-4a02-b339-aaf8a022390a_screenshot.jpg
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,517
    James Bond will return, absolutely.
    I've never been more grateful for those four words than in the credits of NTTD.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,373
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    James Bond will return, absolutely.
    I've never been more grateful for those four words than in the credits of NTTD.

    Exactly. It's never been more relevant.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 6,821
    Well, I dont share the disdain for NTTD, but I too would like 'James Bond will return' to remain as its as important as the other traits of the series!
    But if I may add, I'd like it at the start of the end titles rather than the end.. but that's just me!!!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,944
    Tradition. Reassurance. The first viewing isn't a 'complete' event until you see those four words. To me, it's a bit like losing the gun barrel or title sequence.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,517
    QBranch wrote: »
    Tradition. Reassurance. The first viewing isn't a 'complete' event until you see those four words. To me, it's a bit like losing the gun barrel or title sequence.

    That sums it up perfectly mate, it is reassuring
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited December 2023 Posts: 4,446
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    I think it's as important as the film itself. Imagine a would-be dirge like NTTD, ending without James Bond will Return. It would have upset fans even more. James Bond will return is the reason some fans endure NTTD's ending. Barbara and Michael know it, that's why it even vibrates a bit on screen. Almost like an apology to Bond fans and way of giving us hope that our hero is alive somewhere....even if we just witnessed him being blown up.

    I think using it with NTTD upset fans more funny enough, possible part of there plan.

    With remain with James Bond will return in For Your Eyes Only at the end of TSWLM you always have quistion/something to discus what go wrong. I don't whant that be changed for future release. There also discus it a bit in inside Moonraker.

    With Casino Royale there can have done James Bond will return in Quantum Of Solace, because Quantum Solace as title for Bond 22 whas hinted in trailer of Casino Royale. But for rest i think it fine it end with TLD. Or are people who realy like to see James Bond will retun in Goldeneye on future release of LTK or James Bond will return in No Time To Die on future release of Spectre.

    What i like to see as inprovement on the end credits is return of credits roling on movie footage, last time this happend be with Goldeneye.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,982
    I always loved the GF end credits @M_Balje with the replay of the PTS over the golden lady. Hard to believe we haven't had a ending like that since GE.

    @Mathis1 how about a scene during the end credits and then a mention of James Bond will return? Something akin to Marvel?
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 2,943
    I like the ‘James Bond will return’ and it’s a pretty well ingrained tradition now anyway.
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