It Seems There Are More QoS Appreciators Than Thought Before

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  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Venutius wrote: »
    I think a large part of what we crave in more content in the CR/QOS style is Daniel Craig’s actual portrayal of Bond. He played it perfectly. Brutal, vulnerable, reckless, economy of words, dry wit humor, etc. EON had such a great thing going, but got spooked by a few bad reviews due to writer’s strike, editing.

    Agreed, 100%. My biggest regret of the whole series is that EON stepped back from what they'd created with the CR/QOS Bond and went back to treading a lighter, more familiar path. They had something really special and I definitely needed to see more of that 2006-2008 Bond. I miss it all over again whenever I think about it!

    Completely agree. They really were on the right track. They had kind of 'out-Bourned' the Bourne films in a way because Bond is a much more interesting character and still kept the more serious vibe. They also had a fantastic actor with Craig as their ace card. Much as I like Skyfall, it was regressive for Craig's Bond.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited May 2023 Posts: 2,897
    Completely agree. They really were on the right track. They had kind of 'out-Bourned' the Bourne films in a way because Bond is a much more interesting character and still kept the more serious vibe. They also had a fantastic actor with Craig as their ace card. Much as I like Skyfall, it was regressive for Craig's Bond.
    Yes, definitely. They'd created something genuinely great, but MGW once said that 'we always look at the response to the last film before we decide what to do with the next one' and I really do think EON were stung by the (unjust) criticism of QOS and came back to the more well-trodden path as a result. Such a shame.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited May 2023 Posts: 2,897
    007HallY wrote: »
    Yes, I think they did well under the circumstances. But I’d also say that like any other film it really doesn’t matter what happened behind the scenes. The work will always be judged in itself. As it is, I think you have to take the good with the bad when it comes to QOS. There are things about it that I can’t ever enjoy (again, mostly due to the editing, which I don’t think can even be blamed on the tight schedule but the concept Forster/the producers ran with). At the same time it also has a lot going for it.

    Indeed, so - and judging QOS purely by what's on screen, it's my second favourite film in the whole series. I don't rate it that far below CR either, whereas I feel that there's quite a drop between QOS and SF. That doesn't mean that I dislike SF: I don't. But I love QOS.
    Agreed, though - even though they were given less than half the expected time in which to edit it, the editing in QOS was a choice. Presumably, they hired the editor of The Bourne Supremacy because they wanted his style for their film. Hand on heart: I don't have any issues at all with the editing in QOS. Same with the action sequences that were set up, filmed and directed by Dan Bradley - they must've hired him because they wanted the style that Bradley had used in the second and third Bourne movies, I guess. So, there's no actual 'blame', really; this must be what EON actually wanted QOS to be like, otherwise they'd've hired different people.
    They don't mention it now, but BB was originally so happy with the end result that she actually asked Marc Forster back to direct the next one - it was only when the critics piled on that Forster got kicked out of the house. Dunno about the rest of the world, but I suspect that CR's virtually universal praise meant that UK critics would've put the boot into QOS no matter what it was like. It's just the way they work. As Junglist_1985 said, it's a great shame that the critical response spooked EON back into familiar territory.
    Although you are right - in the promotional interviews for QOS, Dan was talking about bringing Blofeld into subsequent films and Forster said he'd've wanted more typical Bond gags if he'd directed another one, so there'd've been some reversion to formula at some point. Maybe just not quite so soon.

  • edited May 2023 Posts: 2,753
    The Bourne films left their mark on the Craig era no doubt, but especially QOS. It’s a very ‘post 9/11’ film in the sense that there’s a lot of focus on the potential for Governments/agencies (or the ‘good guys’ as they usually are in a Bond film) to have morally questionable motives. It’s there throughout the Craig era, especially in subsequent films.

    What makes QOS stand out is it’s general ‘style’ I’d say. The editing/action sequences have been mentioned, but compared to most Bond films QOS changes up the stylised, rather stereotypically ‘pretty’ locations for the grittier settings of Bolivia in its second half. Even the Tosca opera has a kind of coldness to it. It’s a much more ‘grounded’ portrayal than we’ve ever seen previously in a Bond film, and the film hammers this point home when Camille and Bond walk through the village with the various shots of poor locals.

    For better or for worse, QOS is unusual for a Bond film for these reasons, and certainly it’s distinct from CR. Like I said I don’t think it would have worked for even one more Craig film (personally I think what often separates Bond from the likes of Bourne is that it’s a series which is often able to embrace the fantastical - the villains, stylised, exotic locations etc - while still keeping a verisimilitude that doesn’t feel frivolous). But it does give it its own identity.
    Venutius wrote: »
    Completely agree. They really were on the right track. They had kind of 'out-Bourned' the Bourne films in a way because Bond is a much more interesting character and still kept the more serious vibe. They also had a fantastic actor with Craig as their ace card. Much as I like Skyfall, it was regressive for Craig's Bond.
    Yes, definitely. They'd created something genuinely great, but MGW once said that 'we always look at the response to the last film before we decide what to do with the next one' and I really do think EON were stung by the (unjust) criticism of QOS and came back to the more well-trodden path as a result. Such a shame.

    SF’s not exactly a traditional Bond film either though. Actually it subverts the typical Bond formula even more so than QOS. I’d argue Craig even plays Bond in fundamentally the same way he did in QOS (more world weary, but similar nonetheless). It’s SP that returns us a bit more to a traditional Bond film. They certainly become more fantastical as they move on.

    No doubt they look at the reaction to the previous film, but I’m relatively sure this direction was broadly mapped out from CR. And to be fair for all my problems with the Craig era it does feel like there’s a progression, a sense of the world and the threats Bond has to face constantly changing.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,897
    Yes, a bit of what someone else recently called Fleming's 'twisted weirdness' is always welcome!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    Great post, @007HalY. QoS is unique in a lot of regards, that sort of special installment that'll never be replicated unfortunately. I'm just glad I had the opportunity to love and appreciate it from release until now, 15 years later (can't believe it's been that long).
  • Posts: 2,753
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, a bit of what someone else recently called Fleming's 'twisted weirdness' is always welcome!

    I can imagine a scenario where the next actor’s tenure begins with that sort of style and does the inverse of Craig’s films, that’s to say they become a bit more grounded/gritty.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    I think the path from CR via QoS to SF is a logical one for the Craig era ... but what it missed is a film in between that kinda explains this transition. Another film in 2010, then SF. And then just one movie that basically blends SP and NTTD.
  • Posts: 14,800
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    I think the path from CR via QoS to SF is a logical one for the Craig era ... but what it missed is a film in between that kinda explains this transition. Another film in 2010, then SF. And then just one movie that basically blends SP and NTTD.

    That's why I think it would be great to have a series of graphic novels set between QOS and SF. They could develop Quantum and its relationship with Spectre, show its eventual demise, see how White slowly turned away from his old associates, etc.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited May 2023 Posts: 2,897
    Man, I don't own a single graphic novel but I'd snap these up in a heartbeat!
  • Venutius wrote: »
    Completely agree. They really were on the right track. They had kind of 'out-Bourned' the Bourne films in a way because Bond is a much more interesting character and still kept the more serious vibe. They also had a fantastic actor with Craig as their ace card. Much as I like Skyfall, it was regressive for Craig's Bond.
    Yes, definitely. They'd created something genuinely great, but MGW once said that 'we always look at the response to the last film before we decide what to do with the next one' and I really do think EON were stung by the (unjust) criticism of QOS and came back to the more well-trodden path as a result. Such a shame.


    Not cool....the producers really dropped the ball.

    It seems like the producers really lnew Daniel Craig as someone new and revolutionary in terms of creativity. But then after QoS they tried to fit him into imitating Connery, Moore, and Brosnan.

    Before it became obvious that this is what the producers were trying to do with DC, Craig had already brought back the essence of mystery....not knowing if he for sure was always the good guy and getting you into the story of what was going to happen next and not always saving the girl, the world, and remaining unscathed.

    This and the gadgets have a history of draining the quality and studio money for the series. MGW should notice the pattern....the down to earth movies tend to draw higher crowds by the following movies which usually drop the ball in terms of quality.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited May 2023 Posts: 12,916
    Surely the filmmakers planned from the start to get the most out of CR, and then continue to reestablish traditional elements of the formula over time. And I just called everyone surely.

  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    I'm not too fussed on not continuing on with the Quantum storyline if I'm honest, but I do wish they would have kept that edge to them and made Bond a bit more talkative.

    As much I love Skyfall, I do miss Craig's Bond having more witty dialogue and more lines in general
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited May 2023 Posts: 2,897
    Yes, one of the things I noticed when I first saw SF was that Dan wasn't saying all that much and when he did he was using a much more subdued, monotone voice compared to CR and QOS. I know the character was older and more world-weary in SF, but at times it was as if he'd lost Bond's voice in the long break between films.
  • edited May 2023 Posts: 1,280
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, one of the things I noticed when I first saw SF was that Dan wasn't saying all that much and when he did he was using a much more subdued, monotone voice compared to CR and QOS. I know the character was older and more world-weary in SF, but at times it was as if he'd lost Bond's voice in the long break between films.

    What about the quality of the music in general? That sure sank lower. Obviously David Arnold not being there played a factor. The Quantum theme song exudes Bond's mixture of sadness from losing Vesper as it does curiousity about this mysterious organization.

    Daniel Craig's approach to 007 espwcially in QoS and LTK with Timothy Dalton had those moments of dual conflict in which the Bond character was afflicted by one thing while also tasked with another. It left moviegoers wondering if he really was OK internally by the end of the films. That's part of what drove people looking forward to their subsequent films, each of which were followed by sequels that were more indirect than they needed to be and would have been better if they had connected better as sequels.

    CR also had this going on....Bond was tied and tortured while Vesper was heard screaming. Both helpless and keeping up the suspense.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    While the QoS to SF jump is such a stark drop in what I enjoy in so many ways, the score was one of the most noticeable aspects for me. Past a particular track or two in SF, I didn't care for what Newman brought to the table, and it's even worse when it's regurgitated in SP.

    I really hope Arnold makes a return one day. The guy gets Bond.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    I found a weird article and don't remember if this was an actual thing. Do you remember if they changed this for the Port Au Prince title card?

    https://adamschoales.com/blog/2018/5/the-typography-of-quantum-of-solace
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    I found a weird article and don't remember if this was an actual thing. Do you remember if they changed this for the Port Au Prince title card?

    https://adamschoales.com/blog/2018/5/the-typography-of-quantum-of-solace

    I love the location cards in QoS. I can't say I ever remember the first one for Port Au Prince, though - only the second.
  • I found a weird article and don't remember if this was an actual thing. Do you remember if they changed this for the Port Au Prince title card?

    https://adamschoales.com/blog/2018/5/the-typography-of-quantum-of-solace

    I love the location cards in QoS. I can't say I ever remember the first one for Port Au Prince, though - only the second.

    These cards and their accompanying music really set the tone for the scenes.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited May 2023 Posts: 2,897
    Yes, agreed. In fact, Arnold outdid himself throughout. I know he got a lot of guidance from Marc Forster for the QOS score, but it was exactly what was needed. Always thought it was a bit harsh delivering possibly your best score and then getting dumped for Mendes's mate.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 648
    I can't remember if the Haiti title card was different for the original release. The only title I didn't like was the one for La Paz, which looks like a big sign on the airport. Maybe that was the intention, though.
    QOS-La-Paz-Bolivia.png?format=750w
  • Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, agreed. In fact, Arnold outdid himself throughout. I know he got a lot of guidance from Marc Forster for the QOS score, but it was exactly what was needed. Always thought it was a bit harsh delivering possibly your best score and then getting dumped for Mendes's mate.

    Absolutely.
    On top of that, David Arnold keeps his classy attitude by maintaining his enthusiasm for his work which is nice. He's hopeful to come back if the producers would like. It's about time he come back. He deserves to. We the fans deserve a good score and not just one song by an appealing artist.


    In fact, the Bond theme song should be sang by a lesser known artist or band. It maintains a fresh original sense of talent with enthusiasm/effort by the artists and keeps costs fair for studios to stop meddling with the stories.

    Marc Forster did what most directors should do with their music department: work closely. That's supposed to be their job too. Look at the result with the QoS soundtrack....that guitar riff in Dead Don't Care About Vengeance could be a running 007 theme of its own in any future movie.

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, agreed. In fact, Arnold outdid himself throughout. I know he got a lot of guidance from Marc Forster for the QOS score, but it was exactly what was needed. Always thought it was a bit harsh delivering possibly your best score and then getting dumped for Mendes's mate.

    Absolutely.
    On top of that, David Arnold keeps his classy attitude by maintaining his enthusiasm for his work which is nice. He's hopeful to come back if the producers would like. It's about time he come back. He deserves to. We the fans deserve a good score and not just one song by an appealing artist.


    In fact, the Bond theme song should be sang by a lesser known artist or band. It maintains a fresh original sense of talent with enthusiasm/effort by the artists and keeps costs fair for studios to stop meddling with the stories.

    Marc Forster did what most directors should do with their music department: work closely. That's supposed to be their job too. Look at the result with the QoS soundtrack....that guitar riff in Dead Don't Care About Vengeance could be a running 007 theme of its own in any future movie.

    The expanded score is available on YouTube.

    Cracking score!
  • slide_99 wrote: »
    I can't remember if the Haiti title card was different for the original release. The only title I didn't like was the one for La Paz, which looks like a big sign on the airport. Maybe that was the intention, though.
    QOS-La-Paz-Bolivia.png?format=750w

    Something about this scene....so much was discussed to help with plot advancement by Mathis and the taxi driver. This film needed to take its time a little bit.

    One good thing that came out of all of DC's other Bond movies is that they had longer running times. This means more Bond for your buck. It also allowed to let certain scenes really sink in including the moments before Vesper's grave explodes. The part where the wind blows really takes you into that scene.

    In QoS, there was Yusef's apartment, Bond and M bonding better in a cold world around them in Kazaan. The hotel fire, the old building at the Greene Planet party brought back to life after seeming so lifeless and dilapidated for a while....the boat ride to see Mathis at his island. Stuff sinks in better when that's allowed.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    I for one think the lack of fat or excess meat on the bones of QoS is perfect. I don't need Bond to clock in at nearly three hours if it inevitably demands trimming (like NTTD and some of its exposition, an issue the Craig series had major problems with at times). Less can be more.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I for one think the lack of fat or excess meat on the bones of QoS is perfect. I don't need Bond to clock in at nearly three hours if it inevitably demands trimming (like NTTD and some of its exposition, an issue the Craig series had major problems with at times). Less can be more.

    Definitely less is more with QOS. Most of the time my go to Bond film.

    Why this cracking Bond film isn't more highly regarded by the Bond community is a damn mystery!!!
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    I for one think the lack of fat or excess meat on the bones of QoS is perfect. I don't need Bond to clock in at nearly three hours if it inevitably demands trimming (like NTTD and some of its exposition, an issue the Craig series had major problems with at times). Less can be more.

    Definitely less is more with QOS. Most of the time my go to Bond film.

    Why this cracking Bond film isn't more highly regarded by the Bond community is a damn mystery!!!

    Less is more meaning....more for later as in a redux re-release 😆
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    I'd absolutely buy, day one, for any price, a longer version of QoS or at least one with the deleted scenes attached. Still, the original version is perfection to me. I hope the series reaches similar heights for me in this next era.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'd absolutely buy, day one, for any price, a longer version of QoS or at least one with the deleted scenes attached. Still, the original version is perfection to me. I hope the series reaches similar heights for me in this next era.

    I'd love a version with the original ending where he kills White. QOS is my favourite Craig Bond, and it's also in my top 10.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'd absolutely buy, day one, for any price, a longer version of QoS or at least one with the deleted scenes attached. Still, the original version is perfection to me. I hope the series reaches similar heights for me in this next era.

    I'd love a version with the original ending where he kills White. QOS is my favourite Craig Bond, and it's also in my top 10.

    Me too. Hell, I wish they had found a way to include it, as it would've avoided the sticky narrative mess the rest of the era found itself in - Mr. White returning, his daughter coming into the fold. Ahh, a man can dream.
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