Spectre: Reappraised, Reassessed

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Comments

  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,544
    They should have somehow illustrated more clearly how Reidite (rare material found in meteorites, material found in ring) was found in the toxicology reports if they wanted to go that way. How the ring proves Oberhauser is still alive to Q is beyond me.

    You're right, some essence of this scene should exist, but not at all in it's current form.

    Yeah, I have to admit, I get the ring stuff with regard to the previous villains, but I have no idea why Q has anything that connects Oberhauser.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,258
    Yeah, it's not like there would be a Reidite-toxicology report for Oberhauser, given that a) he wouldn't have been wearing the meteorite ring before he made Spectre, and b) he's not dead.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 27 Posts: 373
    SP with all its flaws, looks and feels slicker than NTTD. It's clearly more Bond than NTTD.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,258
    Slick's a good word for it. IMO, definitely does not feel it's runtime at all.
  • Honestly, if they ended the film with the explosion of Blofeld's base, I think the film would feel drastically better. All they needed to do to finish it off was to show Blofeld escaping and Bond and Swan headed off into the sunset.

    Blowing up Mi6 for the umpteenth time and doing the 'mission vs girl' dilimma seemingly borrowed from The Dark Knight felt drawn out, melodramatic, uninventive, and quite frankly, unBond-like.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 800
    JamesStock wrote: »
    Honestly, if they ended the film with the explosion of Blofeld's base, I think the film would feel drastically better. All they needed to do to finish it off was to show Blofeld escaping and Bond and Swan headed off into the sunset.

    Blowing up Mi6 for the umpteenth time and doing the 'mission vs girl' dilimma seemingly borrowed from The Dark Knight felt drawn out, melodramatic, uninventive, and quite frankly, unBond-like.

    Bingo! I had this idea a while back to edit-insert the NTTD Safin lair infiltration into the Spectre Blofeld base escape to beef up the action and keep things tense. Then keep the Spectre ending riding off into the sunset. That should’ve been a proper base escape and explosion. SP suddenly looks a lot better.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Omaha, NE
    Posts: 6,696
    The only change I would like is in the London climax by having Bond fight Hinx in the ruins of MI6.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,258
    The only change I would like is in the London climax by having Bond fight Hinx in the ruins of MI6.

    Makes you just shake your head, what could have been.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 28 Posts: 1,700
    Didn't an earlier version of the script have Madeleine fight Irma Bunt in the ruins of the MI6 building? So they obviously saw the dramatic potential for a fight at that point. How they missed having it be between Bond and Hinx, I'll never understand.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Omaha, NE
    Posts: 6,696
    Re-release gross from last weekend shows SP just a hair under QOS.



    Casino Royale - £21,441
    Skyfall - £20,361
    GoldenEye - £16,800
    Goldfinger- £13,960
    The Spy Who Loved Me - £12,844
    On Her Majesty’s Secret Service - £11,114
    Live and Let Die - £10,767
    The Living Daylights - £10,707
    Licence to Kill - £9,667
    Quantum of Solace - £9,404
    Spectre - £8,992
    From Russia with Love - £8,806
    Moonraker- £8,494
    Dr. No - £8,349
    A View to a Kill - £8,065
    You Only Live Twice - £8,030
    The Man with the Golden Gun - £8,001
    Thunderball - £7,907
    Tomorrow Never Dies - £7,825
    For Your Eyes Only - £7,631
    The World is Not Enough - £6,933
    Diamonds Are Forever - £6,638
    Octopussy - £6,449
    Die Another Day - £6,225

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,258
    Cool data. I definitely would have gone to see Spectre in theatres again.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Omaha, NE
    Posts: 6,696
    I’m still kind of surprised by how low Brosnan’s non-GE films performed. I would have assumed he had enough nostalgia appeal to him to draw out the generations that were brought up on his Bond. But clearly not the case!

    I can’t imagine NTTD making it among the top 10 given how that is still brand new, not even getting how divisive it is. We’ll see!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,258
    The general public probably think GE was the only one Broz did.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,444
    I'm genuinely surprised any of the post-Dalton films did so well at all, considering how frequently they're on UK TV. Rarely a weekend goes by without one of them being shown.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 12,826
    The general public probably think GE was the only one Broz did.
    Dunno why I found that funny. Sorry, Pierce.


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  • edited September 30 Posts: 1,122
    I suppose the Brosnan films just don't have the same nostalgic appeal that the others do. GE is the closest, but I'm not sure if it's a film all that widely remembered if you aren't a Bond fan. It doesn't help that the strongest memory I think a lot of people have of the Brosnan era is DAD, which most consider to be 'naff'. I know a lot of people here say he's a good 'movie star', but I'm not sure if that's really how he's viewed by the majority of audiences today.

    Dalton himself seems to be praised more and more as time goes on, to the point where his Bond has a bit of a cult following. Again, this is outside of the fandom. I suspect it has a bit to do with the direction they went with Craig's Bond, but it helps that he himself has been in films like Hot Fuzz (which is a modern classic in my opinion) and has popped up consistently in shows like Dr. Who, Penny Dreadful, Doom Patrol, Chuck etc.

    If anything, we're getting to a point where a sizeable chunk of people have grown up with Craig's Bond. Even if they were born on the tail end of the Brosnan era, their most prominent memories would be of seeing CR or SF in cinemas.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited September 30 Posts: 480
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suppose the Brosnan films just don't have the same nostalgic appeal that the others do. GE is the closest, but I'm not sure if it's a film all that widely remembered if you aren't a Bond fan. It doesn't help that the strongest memory I think a lot of people have of the Brosnan era is DAD, which most consider to be 'naff'. I know a lot of people here say he's a good 'movie star', but I'm not sure if that's really how he's viewed by the majority of audiences today.

    Dalton himself seems to be praised more and more as time goes on, to the point where his Bond has a bit of a cult following. Again, this is outside of the fandom. I suspect it has a bit to do with the direction they went with Craig's Bond, but it helps that he himself has been in films like Hot Fuzz (which is a modern classic in my opinion) and has popped up consistently in shows like Dr. Who, Penny Dreadful, Doom Patrol, Chuck etc.

    If anything, we're getting to a point where a sizeable chunk of people have grown up with Craig's Bond. Even if they were born on the tail end of the Brosnan era, their most prominent memories would be of seeing CR or SF in cinemas.
    Re: Dalton the more analytical moviegoer sphere online does seem to appreciate him more these days, but the 'average joe' so to speak still doesn't appear to be keen on him IMO (but then a lot of those people I'd chat about him with grew up during that era).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Omaha, NE
    Posts: 6,696
    I think it’s too bad the US isn’t getting re-releases, because I think we’d see very different results. Dalton was NOT very well accepted with US audiences in the 80s, so I can imagine his films would have been at the bottom of re-released here.
  • edited September 30 Posts: 1,122
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suppose the Brosnan films just don't have the same nostalgic appeal that the others do. GE is the closest, but I'm not sure if it's a film all that widely remembered if you aren't a Bond fan. It doesn't help that the strongest memory I think a lot of people have of the Brosnan era is DAD, which most consider to be 'naff'. I know a lot of people here say he's a good 'movie star', but I'm not sure if that's really how he's viewed by the majority of audiences today.

    Dalton himself seems to be praised more and more as time goes on, to the point where his Bond has a bit of a cult following. Again, this is outside of the fandom. I suspect it has a bit to do with the direction they went with Craig's Bond, but it helps that he himself has been in films like Hot Fuzz (which is a modern classic in my opinion) and has popped up consistently in shows like Dr. Who, Penny Dreadful, Doom Patrol, Chuck etc.

    If anything, we're getting to a point where a sizeable chunk of people have grown up with Craig's Bond. Even if they were born on the tail end of the Brosnan era, their most prominent memories would be of seeing CR or SF in cinemas.
    Re: Dalton the more analytical moviegoer sphere online does seem to appreciate him more these days, but the 'average joe' so to speak still doesn't appear to be keen on him IMO (but then a lot of those people I'd chat about him with grew up during that era).

    I think it might depend on age too. I'm in my mid-20s, and most people I interact with about movies and TV are between the ages of 18-35. Most aren't Bond fans, and not all my friends are even movie fans per say. I've just gotten the sense that Dalton is regarded more highly as Bond (again, in that cult following type way) than Brosnan amongst them. Again, I think it's partially due to the Craig era bringing Dalton's Bond into the spotlight a bit, and partially due to the fact that Dalton tends to crop up in TV nowadays in stuff that a few dedicated fans watch. Brosnan has really only done films in the last few years, and I must admit even I haven't seen any of them past Mamma Mia 2, and most of them before that I had no idea existed. The fact is he's not the movie star he once was, and quite a bit of his filmography now seems to include stuff with negative reviews, low box office figures, or stuff that's gone straight to video on demand. Dalton will always be looked upon more fondly as an actor with this in mind.

    But this is just amongst a small sample of a very particular age group. I do get the sense Dalton is more appreciated now than he was in the past as Bond though, as are his two films. DAD also has a reaction to it that I can only describe as 'the stupid Bond film with the invisible car?'. So that doesn't help. And GE is a much more obscure Bond film for non-fans, as is TND and TWINE to an extent...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 37,944
    It's very disappointing we didn't get a single Bond film over here for the anniversary. Their loss.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 21,707
    Re-release gross from last weekend shows SP just a hair under QOS.



    Casino Royale - £21,441
    Skyfall - £20,361
    GoldenEye - £16,800
    Goldfinger- £13,960
    The Spy Who Loved Me - £12,844
    On Her Majesty’s Secret Service - £11,114
    Live and Let Die - £10,767
    The Living Daylights - £10,707
    Licence to Kill - £9,667
    Quantum of Solace - £9,404
    Spectre - £8,992
    From Russia with Love - £8,806
    Moonraker- £8,494
    Dr. No - £8,349
    A View to a Kill - £8,065
    You Only Live Twice - £8,030
    The Man with the Golden Gun - £8,001
    Thunderball - £7,907
    Tomorrow Never Dies - £7,825
    For Your Eyes Only - £7,631
    The World is Not Enough - £6,933
    Diamonds Are Forever - £6,638
    Octopussy - £6,449
    Die Another Day - £6,225

    I'm happy to see SP perform so well. Craig's Bonds are generally doing well, as are Dalton's. OHMSS is rather high up that list too. Most of all, I'm pleased to see CR and GE so high up that list.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 37,944
    CR grossing the most out of all of Craig's films is really nice. I'm glad to see so much love for the film after all these years, it's brilliant.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 21,707
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    CR grossing the most out of all of Craig's films is really nice. I'm glad to see so much love for the film after all these years, it's brilliant.

    I agree. I like SF but I've always resented the fact that that was the Craig Bond that hauled in over a billion dollars, whereas CR did just a little over half of that. And to me -- just personal opinion -- SF is inferior to CR in almost every regard. That said, I was, of course, happy to see Bond score so well in 2012.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 373
    CR is Craig's best Bond...evidently.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 21,707
    CR is Craig's best Bond...evidently.

    It's a film that keeps giving, in my opinion, that, despite its considerable feature length, never bores me or makes me want to check the time. I know some would rather have done without the Venice house sequence, but I dig that stuff. And the final scene of the film is such good fun; it makes me want to instantly restart the film. Still, after almost 16 years, I feel that way.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 373
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    CR is Craig's best Bond...evidently.

    It's a film that keeps giving, in my opinion, that, despite its considerable feature length, never bores me or makes me want to check the time. I know some would rather have done without the Venice house sequence, but I dig that stuff. And the final scene of the film is such good fun; it makes me want to instantly restart the film. Still, after almost 16 years, I feel that way.

    Exactly. Same here.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Omaha, NE
    Posts: 6,696
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    CR grossing the most out of all of Craig's films is really nice. I'm glad to see so much love for the film after all these years, it's brilliant.

    I agree. I like SF but I've always resented the fact that that was the Craig Bond that hauled in over a billion dollars, whereas CR did just a little over half of that. And to me -- just personal opinion -- SF is inferior to CR in almost every regard. That said, I was, of course, happy to see Bond score so well in 2012.

    Both CR and BATMAN BEGINS are solid cases of films that were successful at the box office but an even bigger hit on DVD. Maybe if QOS was as good or even better than CR, it would have stretched to make a billion dollars.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 37,944
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    CR grossing the most out of all of Craig's films is really nice. I'm glad to see so much love for the film after all these years, it's brilliant.

    I agree. I like SF but I've always resented the fact that that was the Craig Bond that hauled in over a billion dollars, whereas CR did just a little over half of that. And to me -- just personal opinion -- SF is inferior to CR in almost every regard. That said, I was, of course, happy to see Bond score so well in 2012.

    You and I both. Personal tastes aside, kudos to SF for hitting $1 billion but I would've preferred some other installments reaching such a milestone. And yes, CR dominates SF in virtually every arena for me (though to be fair, most of the other installments throughout the series do too).
  • Posts: 1,122
    For better or for worse, I suspect CR and SF will always be Craig's two most well remembered Bond films - CR more amongst Bond fans, SF more amongst general audiences.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 1,700
    Glad to see CR top a list of this kind. Well deserved. Pleasantly surprised to see that QOS was less than two grand behind OHMSS, too. There's hope yet!
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