Spectre: Reappraised, Reassessed

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Comments

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    I feel like the only person who doesn't think Brian Cox is very good. Assuming we're talking about the Succession Brian Cox.
    Anyways, apologies to come back at this late hour and derail the thread. :))
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,110
    I feel like the only person who doesn't think Brian Cox is very good. Assuming we're talking about the Succession Brian Cox.
    Anyways, apologies to come back at this late hour and derail the thread. :))

    Ha, I love Brian Cox. He probably would have been a better Blofeld than Waltz.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,836
    echo wrote: »
    I feel like the only person who doesn't think Brian Cox is very good. Assuming we're talking about the Succession Brian Cox.
    Anyways, apologies to come back at this late hour and derail the thread. :))

    Ha, I love Brian Cox. He probably would have been a better Blofeld than Waltz.

    I agree, @echo. These three pictures with him in it (link) are enough to convince me.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,580
    I put this in the fan media thread, but what do you think?


  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,048
    Haha, @mtm, I have never liked this sequence all that much...

    And for the very first time, after all my viewings of SPECTRE, I got goosebumps. The music just boosted my enthusiasm by a thousand points.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    mtm wrote: »
    I put this in the fan media thread, but what do you think?


    Hmmm. That is an interesting take, for sure.

    I have certainly warmed to Spectre in recent years: I am not nearly as bothered by the Bond-Oberhauser connection anymore. Part of this is due to the Joker-Bruce Wayne connection in Joker (2019), which I found far more troubling and yet, at the same time, people in the audience loved it. I was, like, HUH? I then realized that I needed to get out of my own head, in terms of what I thought needed to happen in a storyline and just appreciate what was actually there.

    It's moved up my rankings a little bit.

  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,700
    TripAces wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I put this in the fan media thread, but what do you think?


    Hmmm. That is an interesting take, for sure.

    I have certainly warmed to Spectre in recent years: I am not nearly as bothered by the Bond-Oberhauser connection anymore. Part of this is due to the Joker-Bruce Wayne connection in Joker (2019), which I found far more troubling and yet, at the same time, people in the audience loved it. I was, like, HUH? I then realized that I needed to get out of my own head, in terms of what I thought needed to happen in a storyline and just appreciate what was actually there.

    It's moved up my rankings a little bit.

    How interesting! I've always loved Spectre, but the Oberhauser thing was annoying at first. What got me over it (aside from thinking about it more and why it actually works) was considering Batman 1989, which reimagined the Joker as the man who killed Bruce's parents. It's really a very similar "crime" to previous concepts of the characters, as far as I know. I don't know if there were fans that hated that, but I'm not really aware of them.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    TripAces wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I put this in the fan media thread, but what do you think?


    Hmmm. That is an interesting take, for sure.

    I have certainly warmed to Spectre in recent years: I am not nearly as bothered by the Bond-Oberhauser connection anymore. Part of this is due to the Joker-Bruce Wayne connection in Joker (2019), which I found far more troubling and yet, at the same time, people in the audience loved it. I was, like, HUH? I then realized that I needed to get out of my own head, in terms of what I thought needed to happen in a storyline and just appreciate what was actually there.

    It's moved up my rankings a little bit.

    How interesting! I've always loved Spectre, but the Oberhauser thing was annoying at first. What got me over it (aside from thinking about it more and why it actually works) was considering Batman 1989, which reimagined the Joker as the man who killed Bruce's parents. It's really a very similar "crime" to previous concepts of the characters, as far as I know. I don't know if there were fans that hated that, but I'm not really aware of them.

    It's been ages since I saw the 89 Batman film, so I had no recollection of that. I think in either Bruce Wayne's or Bond's case, there seems to be a hint of what is pre-ordained and what constitutes free will.
  • Posts: 2,115
    mtm wrote: »
    I put this in the fan media thread, but what do you think?


    That was a real missed opportunity in the soundtrack. The Bond theme should've been blaring out as loudly as possible.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,836
    I bet Arnold would have had the Bond Theme all over the place, triumphant and loud. Such a missed opportunity.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,340
    The original music in that scene disappointed me so much that I ended up rescoring that whole sequence 4 times. :P
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,615
    I think they purposely didn't want to use much of the Bond theme in Craig's Bond era. Craig's Bond was all about subversion. It's a miracle it worked. It might not work for another actor.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,580
    Although Spectre is actually full of the Bond theme, especially the first act: by the time the film gets to Q's bunker I was actually willing Newman to use it a bit less :)
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,615
    mtm wrote: »
    Although Spectre is actually full of the Bond theme, especially the first act: by the time the film gets to Q's bunker I was actually willing Newman to use it a bit less :)

    Yeah. While not in full, Newman ends lots of Spectre tracks with different renditions of the Bond theme in few seconds. The thing with Craig's Bond is, the Bond theme doesn't feature in his action scenes. Only Zimmer brought that back after a long time and even at that, it isn't a full rendition of the Bond theme in an action scene, but still, Zimmer knew Bond's action scenes needed that again.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,094
    I think after CR was so successful there was a deliberate choice made to keep the Bond theme at a minimum and not use it as a crutch, with each film gradually bringing in the theme little by little. It would have been nice to see hear it play in full during an action scene in his last film, but there we are.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,615
    I think after CR was so successful there was a deliberate choice made to keep the Bond theme at a minimum and not use it as a crutch, with each film gradually bringing in the theme little by little. It would have been nice to see hear it play in full during an action scene in his last film, but there we are.

    Yeah. Bond doing his Bond thing in an action scene without the Bond theme can feel incomplete.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,094
    Funnily it’s the inverse of an issue I’ve always had with Arnold’s Brosnan era scores where I felt he relied on the Bond theme way too much, with TND being the most overused. Like blaring out the theme when Bond is trying out the remote control car with Q.

    John Barry had the right method to counterbalance the Bond theme with the title song. GF was the first to have the perfect balance, where the Bond theme was used here and there, but the main title was very prominent. By his example, I think you should play the Bond theme in full at least twice. I think TLD is his most rich, where there were four themes at his disposal: Bond theme, main title, Necros’ theme, and the love theme.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,700
    Yeah, TLD is something else. So many themes to work with.

    But on the other end you have LALD, where the title song is so strong they largely did without the Bond theme for most of it.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,094
    Which is fine, if only the rest of the LALD score wasn’t garbage.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,580
    No: garbage did TWINE ;)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,136
    Which is fine, if only the rest of the LALD score wasn’t garbage.

    That's only 20% of the score really, when you think of it.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 12 Posts: 1,615
    Funnily it’s the inverse of an issue I’ve always had with Arnold’s Brosnan era scores where I felt he relied on the Bond theme way too much, with TND being the most overused. Like blaring out the theme when Bond is trying out the remote control car with Q.

    John Barry had the right method to counterbalance the Bond theme with the title song. GF was the first to have the perfect balance, where the Bond theme was used here and there, but the main title was very prominent. By his example, I think you should play the Bond theme in full at least twice. I think TLD is his most rich, where there were four themes at his disposal: Bond theme, main title, Necros’ theme, and the love theme.

    David Arnold said in case they never ask him back to score a Bond film, TND is everything he had always wanted to do with a Bond score. Hence, the excessive use of the Bond theme which works, because Spottiswoode directed Brosnan's Bond like a stylish model secret agent. Focusing on his gait and all that, and Arnold couldn't help but blast out the Bond theme frequently.

    TLD is a great Bond score...undoubtedly.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 12 Posts: 1,615
    Which is fine, if only the rest of the LALD score wasn’t garbage.

    LALD score garbage? Wow! Well, I always respect opinions, though. But a lot of Bond fans love the score. I love the score. George Martin sounds very Bond without sounding Barry, which isn't easy to do.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,110
    Which is fine, if only the rest of the LALD score wasn’t garbage.

    LALD score garbage? Wow! Well, I always respect opinions, though. But a lot of Bond fans love the score. I love the score. George Martin sounds very Bond without sounding Barry, which isn't easy to do.

    I love the LALD score.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,094
    Funnily it’s the inverse of an issue I’ve always had with Arnold’s Brosnan era scores where I felt he relied on the Bond theme way too much, with TND being the most overused. Like blaring out the theme when Bond is trying out the remote control car with Q.

    John Barry had the right method to counterbalance the Bond theme with the title song. GF was the first to have the perfect balance, where the Bond theme was used here and there, but the main title was very prominent. By his example, I think you should play the Bond theme in full at least twice. I think TLD is his most rich, where there were four themes at his disposal: Bond theme, main title, Necros’ theme, and the love theme.

    David Arnold said in case they never ask him back to score a Bond film, TND is everything he had always wanted to do with a Bond score. Hence, the excessive use of the Bond theme which works, because Spottiswoode directed Brosnan's Bond like a stylish model secret agent. Focusing on his gait and all that, and Arnold couldn't help but blast out the Bond theme frequently.

    Didn’t work for me, his obnoxious score is part of what ranks TND near the bottom.
    Which is fine, if only the rest of the LALD score wasn’t garbage.

    LALD score garbage? Wow! Well, I always respect opinions, though. But a lot of Bond fans love the score. I love the score. George Martin sounds very Bond without sounding Barry, which isn't easy to do.

    Aside from his rendition of the Bond theme, used notably during the Harlem section, I always felt his score felt cheap. Like something more suitable to a TV show of that era. For the first non-Barry score since DN, it’s a very unremarkable one.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,615
    echo wrote: »
    Which is fine, if only the rest of the LALD score wasn’t garbage.

    LALD score garbage? Wow! Well, I always respect opinions, though. But a lot of Bond fans love the score. I love the score. George Martin sounds very Bond without sounding Barry, which isn't easy to do.

    I love the LALD score.

    :)>-
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,615
    Funnily it’s the inverse of an issue I’ve always had with Arnold’s Brosnan era scores where I felt he relied on the Bond theme way too much, with TND being the most overused. Like blaring out the theme when Bond is trying out the remote control car with Q.

    John Barry had the right method to counterbalance the Bond theme with the title song. GF was the first to have the perfect balance, where the Bond theme was used here and there, but the main title was very prominent. By his example, I think you should play the Bond theme in full at least twice. I think TLD is his most rich, where there were four themes at his disposal: Bond theme, main title, Necros’ theme, and the love theme.

    David Arnold said in case they never ask him back to score a Bond film, TND is everything he had always wanted to do with a Bond score. Hence, the excessive use of the Bond theme which works, because Spottiswoode directed Brosnan's Bond like a stylish model secret agent. Focusing on his gait and all that, and Arnold couldn't help but blast out the Bond theme frequently.

    Didn’t work for me, his obnoxious score is part of what ranks TND near the bottom.
    Which is fine, if only the rest of the LALD score wasn’t garbage.

    LALD score garbage? Wow! Well, I always respect opinions, though. But a lot of Bond fans love the score. I love the score. George Martin sounds very Bond without sounding Barry, which isn't easy to do.

    Aside from his rendition of the Bond theme, used notably during the Harlem section, I always felt his score felt cheap. Like something more suitable to a TV show of that era. For the first non-Barry score since DN, it’s a very unremarkable one.

    Oh, it's cool. Our ears are designed to like what they like.
  • Posts: 1,707
    First of all, LALD is a great soundtrack.

    As for SPECTRE, I like this film more each time I see it. The two big fails are the torture scene, which doesn't come close to the CR torture scene, and the MI6 obstacle/maze scene.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 5 Posts: 6,110
    Oh, I love the LALD score, particularly in the NY section.

    Actually, the whole movie starts to gradually slide downhill right around the time Bond leaves NY. Not a lot of interesting events happen from San Monique onward. It seems to be mostly Bond seducing Solitaire and the Rosie subplot.

    Strangely, DAF has a more interesting or at least higher-stakes plot, largely thanks to Wint and Kidd and the notion of chasing the diamonds.
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