Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,545
    CrabKey wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    FRWL, GF, and TB all delivered equally well. Then came the first disappointment: YOLT. And then the sobering reality of the torch being passed.

    What did you find disappointing about YOLT? Was it generally considered a step down from TB?

    It was a step down for me. I've never liked the Bond in space business: rockets, satellites, etc. Blofeld seemed silly to me. The film felt cartoonish to me in a way the previous outings had not. The source material was far more interesting.

    Indeed ! Additionally: Connery was not fresh or as interested as in other appearances. AND he looks so sweaty and greasy in much of the film - ???
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 648
    Since62 wrote: »
    Here's a change for the ending to NTTD...(somehow having a pack and a light on his person that didn't get soaked) Bond shrugs. "What the hell..." Pulls out a cig, lights it up. One long drag and exhale...(boom)

    Or maybe Craig turns to the camera and says, "Well, I guess it's time to die. And you know what timepiece is best for dying? Omega."
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited May 2022 Posts: 2,897
    Since62 wrote: »
    Here's a change for the ending to NTTD...(somehow having a pack and a light on his person that didn't get soaked) Bond shrugs. "What the hell..." Pulls out a cig, lights it up. One long drag and exhale...(boom)

    He should've done it with the cigar that Paloma got him for Felix. But, yes, the risk of a Hamlet flashback would've been high!
  • Posts: 1,478
    The right writer/director/actor should be able to tick all your boxes--

    You're right about those elements in the early Connery films. The opening music to Goldfinger was positively shattering. FRWL did it instrumentally, and everyone has the story of Tom Jones passing out singing TB. There was something new and special that could not be sustained. I still look forward to the Bond films and would like to think there will yet be one capable of recreating that early magic.



  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,916
    Unfortunately if you put Bach's Air on the G String playing in the background you have a Hamlet cigar advert (if anyone is old enough to remember the classic series of adverts).

    Okay I got distracted by the description here.
    bach1-sized.jpg


    Since62 wrote: »
    Here's a change for the ending to NTTD...(somehow having a pack and a light on his person that didn't get soaked) Bond shrugs. "What the hell..." Pulls out a cig, lights it up. One long drag and exhale...(boom)

    kurt-russell-snake-plissken.gif
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The right writer/director/actor should be able to tick all your boxes--

    You're right about those elements in the early Connery films. The opening music to Goldfinger was positively shattering. FRWL did it instrumentally, and everyone has the story of Tom Jones passing out singing TB. There was something new and special that could not be sustained. I still look forward to the Bond films and would like to think there will yet be one capable of recreating that early magic.

    Did you not feel that early magic with CR? I did, and also with TLD. So I'm hopeful that Bond #7 will have a successful first outing. They usually are.

    My first Bond film in theaters was OP, and Dalton--especially his youth and vitality--was very refreshing in 1987.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    unless there’s folks here that can counter that by claiming they walked out of the cinema with the immediate reaction being “that was a jolly good time!” while the end credits showed an image of the bullet hole on the windshield.
    You never know, the Bond Theme is a great tune after all...

    I always considered that a chicken**** decision on the filmmakers to blare the theme after her death, as if the producers were scared of ending the film on such a down note.
  • Posts: 2,887
    I always interpreted it as a "show must go on" gesture. Yes, Tracy is dead and Bond is devastated, but the series must go on, no matter who dies and how much Bond is hurt. To me it's an intentionally callous move, a deliberate slap to the grieving audience's face, but my opinion might be shared by very few other people.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,053
    Some of these ideas are a great way to start.

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited June 2022 Posts: 3,382
    007HallY wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair, I did feel that NTTD's ending was a bit of a downer in a way that wasn't right for the film. I felt what they were trying to go for was a relatively optimistic ending - sure, Bond's dead, but he's now a mythologised hero that will live on through Madeline's stories to Mathilde... having WHATTITW echo over the titles came off as a bit depressing and didn't convey that sense of optimism to me...

    I mean, even if they'd have stuck the Bond theme at the end and rejigged a few things here it might have had a different impact emotionally... I dunno, these things are subjective after all.

    I'm so tired of the Bond theme at the end of every film.

    I think a cover of We Have All The Time in the World by Billie Eilish would have worked (although impossible to market without spoiling the ending).

    Maybe if they'd just stuck with a brief instrumental until the end and then did the Bond theme for the credits? Again, there's something just so solemn and weird about coming out of the cinema to that song.

    To be honest, I prefer the 'Home' theme to be played in the end credits, at least to add some weight to Bond's death.
    And does someone here have heard the unreleased track of Safin's theme, just curious, it could have worked in the end credits instead of playing 'We Have All The Time In The World', they should edit the ending theme of OHMSS today and replace that Bond theme with Louis Armstrong's WHATTITW song, they still could have done it with today's technology.
  • Posts: 725
    How about a bond movie directed by Zack Snyder? Provided he has little involvement in the script.
  • Posts: 1,478
    echo wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The right writer/director/actor should be able to tick all your boxes--

    You're right about those elements in the early Connery films. The opening music to Goldfinger was positively shattering. FRWL did it instrumentally, and everyone has the story of Tom Jones passing out singing TB. There was something new and special that could not be sustained. I still look forward to the Bond films and would like to think there will yet be one capable of recreating that early magic.

    Did you not feel that early magic with CR? I did, and also with TLD. So I'm hopeful that Bond #7 will have a successful first outing. They usually are.

    My first Bond film in theaters was OP, and Dalton--especially his youth and vitality--was very refreshing in 1987.

    Actually CR and OHMSS rank as my two favorite Bond films. Vesper is the best Bond woman followed by Tracy. Focus on character is the key to both. And I do like both Dalton films. You Know My Name is one of my favorite Bond themes. It is definitely a throw back. I remain a Bond fan even if the films don't thrill as they initially did.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Revelator wrote: »
    I always interpreted it as a "show must go on" gesture. Yes, Tracy is dead and Bond is devastated, but the series must go on, no matter who dies and how much Bond is hurt. To me it's an intentionally callous move, a deliberate slap to the grieving audience's face, but my opinion might be shared by very few other people.

    I sometimes wonder that even if Lazenby had returned the filmmakers would still shrug off Bond’s loss more or less the way DAF did.
  • Posts: 2,887
    Maibaum's initial drafts for DAF strongly suggest that he wanted to make a genuine follow-up to OHMSS, but when Connery returned the producers changed tack.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited June 2022 Posts: 3,382
    Revelator wrote: »
    Maibaum's initial drafts for DAF strongly suggest that he wanted to make a genuine follow-up to OHMSS, but when Connery returned the producers changed tack.

    One of the self declared fan I've talked to, told me that Lazenby had been interviewed in a podcast and he said that they supposed to do 'The Man With The Golden Gun' after OHMSS with him reprising his role as Bond, though I still need to check it out.
    So if it's true, then it's not going to be DAF either and they've considered filming TMWTGG many times?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Connery was only brought in one month before production, so it was always my impression that the producers made the decision to not do a follow up early on before his involvement.

    I don’t doubt Maibaum wanted to do a proper follow up, and that Mankiewicz was brought in to make it more like GF. Would be interesting to see any surviving drafts of what Maibaum did before his dismissal.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 2,887
    Connery was only brought in one month before production, so it was always my impression that the producers made the decision to not do a follow up early on before his involvement.

    On second thought, I think you're right. Here's a combination of a couple old posts of mine that I'd forgotten about:

    On Sept. 8, 1969 (while OHMSS was in post-production) Richard Maibaum began 13 weeks of script work on Diamonds Are Forever.

    For DAF Maibaum produced two treatments that were direct follow-ups to OHMSS, featuring Bond in depression, the death of Irma Bunt in the pre-credits sequence, and locations in Southeast Asia. Early screenplay drafts included scenes onboard a Victorian locomotive (as in the novel) and a climactic battle with Blofeld in a hydroelectric plant.

    Ilse Steppat's death on Dec. 22, 1969 meant Irma Bunt could no longer appear. In a memo addressed to Broccoli and Saltzman and dated Feb. 10, 1970, Maibaum wrote "I'd like for us to make some joint decisions...Do we use Blofeld as our mastermind again? If so, we can't avoid emphasizing the revenge aspect. The audience expects Bond to settle his account with him for murdering Tracy." Maibaum also wrote that since Bond and Tiffany had experienced great personal tragedies they could help each other recover.

    Broccoli ultimately rejected Maibaum's approach, saying "we all felt the story a little too tame, too much like any spy thriller." Maibaum then produced a draft featuring Goldfinger's twin brother as the villain, climaxing with an exotic boat chase across Lake Mead. Guy Hamilton, who "found boats boring," scrapped the finale. The producers turned to Tom Mankiewicz, who'd been recommended by David Picker, President of United Artists.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,053
    Revelator wrote: »
    Connery was only brought in one month before production, so it was always my impression that the producers made the decision to not do a follow up early on before his involvement.

    On second thought, I think you're right. Here's a combination of a couple old posts of mine that I'd forgotten about:

    On Sept. 8, 1969 (while OHMSS was in post-production) Richard Maibaum began 13 weeks of script work on Diamonds Are Forever.

    For DAF Maibaum produced two treatments that were direct follow-ups to OHMSS, featuring Bond in depression, the death of Irma Bunt in the pre-credits sequence, and locations in Southeast Asia. Early screenplay drafts included scenes onboard a Victorian locomotive (as in the novel) and a climactic battle with Blofeld in a hydroelectric plant.

    Ilse Steppat's death on Dec. 22, 1969 meant Irma Bunt could no longer appear. In a memo addressed to Broccoli and Saltzman and dated Feb. 10, 1970, Maibaum wrote "I'd like for us to make some joint decisions...Do we use Blofeld as our mastermind again? If so, we can't avoid emphasizing the revenge aspect. The audience expects Bond to settle his account with him for murdering Tracy." Maibaum also wrote that since Bond and Tiffany had experienced great personal tragedies they could help each other recover.

    Broccoli ultimately rejected Maibaum's approach, saying "we all felt the story a little too tame, too much like any spy thriller." Maibaum then produced a draft featuring Goldfinger's twin brother as the villain, climaxing with an exotic boat chase across Lake Mead. Guy Hamilton, who "found boats boring," scrapped the finale. The producers turned to Tom Mankiewicz, who'd been recommended by David Picker, President of United Artists.

    Can you cite your sources, please? I believe you, but I want to know.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 2,887
    My sources are the Taschen James Bond Archives book, Maibaum's various interviews, and The Making of On Her Majesty's Secret Service by Charles Helfenstein.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,053
    Revelator wrote: »
    My sources are the Taschen James Bond Archives book, Maibaum's various interviews, and The Making of On Her Majesty's Secret Service by Charles Helfenstein.

    Thank you, one of James Bond’s biggest lost adventures.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Mankiewicz had spoken about how he always tries to write to the strength of the actors playing the roles, and Connery was very collaborative with him. It makes me wonder how he would have written Bond if John Gavin wasn’t dismissed.
  • Posts: 2,887
    A tantalizing question. I'm of the opinion that Gavin would have been a fatally bland James Bond, so Mankiewicz would have had to work wonders. I wonder why Broccoli was so tempted by dull Americans like Gavin and James Brolin.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    They got away with casting Lazenby, he probably thought the same thing could happen with Gavin.
  • Posts: 3,273

    Exceptions can be made. As it was with OHMSS, unless there’s folks here that can counter that by claiming they walked out of the cinema with the immediate reaction being “that was a jolly good time!” while the end credits showed an image of the bullet hole on the windshield.
    I'm repeating myself again, but its one thing having M dying at the end, or Vesper, or Tracey. Yes, its a bit of a downer.

    But destroying what was left of the main character, taking everything away from him, before killing him off is something else completely. The ultimate downer.

    The ending of OHMSS is far easier to shrug off than NTTD, because Bond lives to fight another day. Anyway, I know I'm wasting my time with you on this subject because you loved the ending to NTTD.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited June 2022 Posts: 8,000
    It’s not that I “loved” it. I think NTTD is pretty solid. It’s a 8/10 relative to other Bond films. It’s not even in my top 5, where OHMSS resides at #4.

    I simply object to this conceit that Eon shouldn’t take these kinds of chances just because it doesn’t conform to what came before.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    Revelator wrote: »
    I always interpreted it as a "show must go on" gesture. Yes, Tracy is dead and Bond is devastated, but the series must go on, no matter who dies and how much Bond is hurt. To me it's an intentionally callous move, a deliberate slap to the grieving audience's face, but my opinion might be shared by very few other people.

    Yes I think you’re right.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 4,400
    peter wrote: »
    I really have no idea where they’ll go next myself, and I’m trying not to set myself up with any expectations, but I do like the idea of a Bond in his late 20s/early 30s doing a Royal Marines/SBS origin story. I’ve always been resistant to the idea of someone so young doing it, but I like the idea of exploring his military service, and someone so young would immediately be able to set himself apart from Craig.

    This is 100% the direction they will take. This is really the only territory that has not been mined. I can see them taking a similar approach to 'Dune' or the recent 'Spider-Man' films and do a coming-of-age story.

    We would meet Bond in his 20's and see him go from the Royal Marines and become an MI6 agent. I don't see them adopting the approach from 'The Batman', mainly as CR already did something similar. There we met a Bond in his mid 30's going on his first mission (in my opinion, Bond is around 35 in that film). Which is more or less the conceit used to introduce Robert Pattinson's Batman.

    For this reason, I think a 'Young Bond' story would be essential for a reboot. An actor in his twenties should be sought. I just hope they don't go down the route adopted by the recent 'Uncharted' movie. I don't want a frivolous popcorn blockbuster. Bond 26 needs to keep the pedigree of the Daniel Craig-era. 'Dune' should be the benchmark.

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    Revelator wrote: »
    Therefore the films need more sex, violence, and lifestyle porn. Young people are clearly into the latter--look at all the influencers on Instagram and TikTok. So ramp up the glitzy clothes, ritzy decor, high living, posh food and drink, and exotic locales. A Bond movie should be on the cutting edge of not only spy gadgets but luxury tech. Dubai turned up to 11! Take audiences into the world of the super super-rich...and then blow it up.

    There certainly needs to be an element of the 'luxury Instagram lifestyle' in Bond 26. It should not overwhelm the film though. That aspirational lifestyle of globetrotting and escapism has flourished on social media. I think Eon are conscious of that - especially as they recently teamed up with Michael Kors for a campaign which hired a number of high profile models to promote the brand. They even enlisted one of the biggest models working today in Bella Hadid. If someone like Hadid were to have a brief cameo in Bond 26, that would help make the film appear sexier for younger auds. Photos and a video from her campaign are below:


    49589033-10126559-image-a-12_1635116635655.jpg
    Ozt1ZC0.jpg

    They also got a number of models to pose on a boat to promote the partnership. I don't necessarily think Bond 26 should feel like you are scrolling through an influencer's account, but Bond's world has always had an element of glamour in it. Perhaps they can lean into those aspects with the next film, but it should not negate from the tense, darker moments. I immediately think of a show like 'Euphoria', which appeals to the Instagram/TikTok crowd but also is still emotionally intense. Bond 26 could certainly do something along those lines. Check out more from Micheal Kors' campaign for 007 below:



    Group-Girls.jpg?resize=620%2C443&ssl=1
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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    I think you make good points there, Pierce2.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    That cindymello photo looks a lot like 90s Denise Richards to me.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2022 Posts: 5,921
    The challenge in following trends is that they change so quickly.

    I think NTTD would have felt different had we not waited for it throughout a pandemic, and had it not had eerie pandemic echoes (at least it was nanobots and not a straight-up virus).

    After two years of waiting, and worrying about the state of the real world, some understandably wanted a more uplifting film.

    With Bond 26 they will presumably release the film closer to filming.
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