NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • FarewellBondFarewellBond Australia
    Posts: 9
    Seve wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    JamesK wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    JamesK wrote: »
    How is killing him pure Fleming? I'm honestly curious, as Fleming himself never did it (though maybe he'd planned to?)

    FRWL was the closest. He wanted to give himself the option to walk away.

    Agree its close - but I don't think Fleming made it as clear in that novel as they may have done in the NTTD.

    Definitely. The film is categorical. The novel never explicitly states Bond is dead.

    The film ends with "James Bond will return"

    IMO the film is just as "categorical" that he will survive

    If you were watching the film without any outside knowledge of "internal Bond politics", which is most people, there will be likely be some confusion on that point.

    It's a contradiction the audience hasn't had to deal with before, being asked to accept that it's only one actors incarnation of Bond that is dead.

    However it's no less strange than having two Bonds at the same time back in in 1983, so I'm sure we'll all come to terms with it, either way, in time.
    matt_u wrote: »
    The notion that the movie tanked in the US is slightly wrong. Bond suffered from COVID far more than other films that benefited from a younger target. In the end Bond in the US will end up grossing only $10M less than F9. NTTD will end up being the 7th biggest film in NA this year… and SP for the record ended up 11th back in 2015.
    But SP faced a lot more competition than NTTD as many of the films that ordinarily have provided competition have been held over to next year. The bottom line is that NTTD will be the 6th worst performing Bond film of all time in the US (inflation adjusted). LTK, TMWTGG, TLD, AVTAK, AND OHMSS are the only films to perform worse, and it is telling that after three of these (OHMSS, AVTAK, LTK) the series moved on to a new Bond and a new direction.

    Why single out Bond? ALL films this year have been impacted by this pandemic. There has yet to be a billion dollar grossing film.

    So when discussions regarding NTTD’s box office are brought up, there will always be the two major points: 1) that it was effected by the pandemic, and 2) that it was still able to gross over $700 worldwide in spite of it.

    Ok let's ignore NTTD, the reality is that even before covid the DC movie have been very uneven in how they played in the US with SF being the standout exception (which had the perfect backdrop of the 50th anniversary and one of the great PR moments with DC and the Queen at the Olympics opening ceremony). The DC films have ranked 3rd (SF), 10th (CR), 13th (SP) 14th (QOS) and 19th (NTTD). Compare that say to the consistency of PB, who had all his films ranked in the top 1/2 - 6th (DAD), 7th (TND), 11th (TWINE) and 12th (GE). So 3 of the DC films have ranked below the worst PB film, including the past two. This, to me at least, is strongly suggestive of bigger issues than just Covid.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,846
    Seve wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    JamesK wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    JamesK wrote: »
    How is killing him pure Fleming? I'm honestly curious, as Fleming himself never did it (though maybe he'd planned to?)

    FRWL was the closest. He wanted to give himself the option to walk away.

    Agree its close - but I don't think Fleming made it as clear in that novel as they may have done in the NTTD.

    Definitely. The film is categorical. The novel never explicitly states Bond is dead.

    The film ends with "James Bond will return"

    IMO the film is just as "categorical" that he will survive

    If you were watching the film without any outside knowledge of "internal Bond politics", which is most people, there will be likely be some confusion on that point.

    It's a contradiction the audience hasn't had to deal with before, being asked to accept that it's only one actors incarnation of Bond that is dead.

    However it's no less strange than having two Bonds at the same time back in in 1983, so I'm sure we'll all come to terms with it, either way, in time.
    matt_u wrote: »
    The notion that the movie tanked in the US is slightly wrong. Bond suffered from COVID far more than other films that benefited from a younger target. In the end Bond in the US will end up grossing only $10M less than F9. NTTD will end up being the 7th biggest film in NA this year… and SP for the record ended up 11th back in 2015.
    But SP faced a lot more competition than NTTD as many of the films that ordinarily have provided competition have been held over to next year. The bottom line is that NTTD will be the 6th worst performing Bond film of all time in the US (inflation adjusted). LTK, TMWTGG, TLD, AVTAK, AND OHMSS are the only films to perform worse, and it is telling that after three of these (OHMSS, AVTAK, LTK) the series moved on to a new Bond and a new direction.

    Why single out Bond? ALL films this year have been impacted by this pandemic. There has yet to be a billion dollar grossing film.

    So when discussions regarding NTTD’s box office are brought up, there will always be the two major points: 1) that it was effected by the pandemic, and 2) that it was still able to gross over $700 worldwide in spite of it.

    Ok let's ignore NTTD, the reality is that even before covid the DC movie have been very uneven in how they played in the US with SF being the standout exception (which had the perfect backdrop of the 50th anniversary and one of the great PR moments with DC and the Queen at the Olympics opening ceremony). The DC films have ranked 3rd (SF), 10th (CR), 13th (SP) 14th (QOS) and 19th (NTTD). Compare that say to the consistency of PB, who had all his films ranked in the top 1/2 - 6th (DAD), 7th (TND), 11th (TWINE) and 12th (GE). So 3 of the DC films have ranked below the worst PB film, including the past two. This, to me at least, is strongly suggestive of bigger issues than just Covid.

    Where are you getting those rankings from?
  • FarewellBondFarewellBond Australia
    Posts: 9
    Seve wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    JamesK wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    JamesK wrote: »
    How is killing him pure Fleming? I'm honestly curious, as Fleming himself never did it (though maybe he'd planned to?)

    FRWL was the closest. He wanted to give himself the option to walk away.

    Agree its close - but I don't think Fleming made it as clear in that novel as they may have done in the NTTD.

    Definitely. The film is categorical. The novel never explicitly states Bond is dead.

    The film ends with "James Bond will return"

    IMO the film is just as "categorical" that he will survive

    If you were watching the film without any outside knowledge of "internal Bond politics", which is most people, there will be likely be some confusion on that point.

    It's a contradiction the audience hasn't had to deal with before, being asked to accept that it's only one actors incarnation of Bond that is dead.

    However it's no less strange than having two Bonds at the same time back in in 1983, so I'm sure we'll all come to terms with it, either way, in time.
    matt_u wrote: »
    The notion that the movie tanked in the US is slightly wrong. Bond suffered from COVID far more than other films that benefited from a younger target. In the end Bond in the US will end up grossing only $10M less than F9. NTTD will end up being the 7th biggest film in NA this year… and SP for the record ended up 11th back in 2015.
    But SP faced a lot more competition than NTTD as many of the films that ordinarily have provided competition have been held over to next year. The bottom line is that NTTD will be the 6th worst performing Bond film of all time in the US (inflation adjusted). LTK, TMWTGG, TLD, AVTAK, AND OHMSS are the only films to perform worse, and it is telling that after three of these (OHMSS, AVTAK, LTK) the series moved on to a new Bond and a new direction.

    Why single out Bond? ALL films this year have been impacted by this pandemic. There has yet to be a billion dollar grossing film.

    So when discussions regarding NTTD’s box office are brought up, there will always be the two major points: 1) that it was effected by the pandemic, and 2) that it was still able to gross over $700 worldwide in spite of it.

    Ok let's ignore NTTD, the reality is that even before covid the DC movie have been very uneven in how they played in the US with SF being the standout exception (which had the perfect backdrop of the 50th anniversary and one of the great PR moments with DC and the Queen at the Olympics opening ceremony). The DC films have ranked 3rd (SF), 10th (CR), 13th (SP) 14th (QOS) and 19th (NTTD). Compare that say to the consistency of PB, who had all his films ranked in the top 1/2 - 6th (DAD), 7th (TND), 11th (TWINE) and 12th (GE). So 3 of the DC films have ranked below the worst PB film, including the past two. This, to me at least, is strongly suggestive of bigger issues than just Covid.

    Where are you getting those rankings from?
    Forbes had a ranking of all the films earlier this year by US take, global take, and inflation-adjusted US take.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2021 Posts: 6,846
    Using inflation to compare past films is about as reliable as comparing non-inflated numbers. You can’t even compare GOLDFINGER to SKYFALL because the markets between 1964 and 2012 were VASTLY different. It would be like using broadcast television ratings of today and comparing them unfavorably to what TV shows used to get in ratings 40 years ago. It just doesn’t work that way.

    I seriously doubt MGM is gonna look at the numbers and go “oh fudge, we didn’t make as much as this Bond film from 1981 when you adjust the numbers!”
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited December 2021 Posts: 4,292
    matt_u wrote: »
    The notion that the movie tanked in the US is slightly wrong. Bond suffered from COVID far more than other films that benefited from a younger target. In the end Bond in the US will end up grossing only $10M less than F9. NTTD will end up being the 7th biggest film in NA this year… and SP for the record ended up 11th back in 2015.
    But SP faced a lot more competition than NTTD as many of the films that ordinarily would have provided competition have been held over to next year. The bottom line is that NTTD will be the 6th worst performing Bond film of all time in the US (inflation adjusted). LTK, TMWTGG, TLD, AVTAK, and OHMSS are the only films to perform worse, and it is telling that after three of these (OHMSS, AVTAK, LTK) the series moved on to a new Bond and a new direction.

    SP didn't faced a pandemic and a 18 months delay.

    I perfectly remember a piece by Mendelson on Forbes a couple of weeks before the first delay where he stated that NTTD was projected to end up grossing something in the $250M dollars range in NA if the film would've had a better reception than SP... and NTTD achieved that.

    EDIT: Listening to the spoiler free recent podcast.

    MGW said that Cubby would've been proud and happy of NTTD's ending because it represents a fitting resolution for Daniel's self contained 5 films storyline.

    Cary never saw OHMSS before getting the job and it ended up loving it.

    Loved this bit from Purvis: “He had nothing to live for and then found something to die for."
  • marc wrote: »
    Quite alright, us Canadians are pretty samey.

    Now the other fella should have The Other Fella as location.

    We're all the same, fella.
    diamonds-are-forever.jpg
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited December 2021 Posts: 1,213
    They should have shown Bond’s burnt corpse getting eaten by animals for good measure, especially if it angered more fans.

    Maybe a giant squid.

    We literally see Bond’s head get crushed in every gory detail. Madeleine then admits she never loved him. Nomi is happy that Bond is dead because the only good cis gender white heterosexual male is a dead one, especially if his balls are squashed like guacamole. It ends with the very firs cameo of Barbara Broccoli, maniacally laughing as she sets fire to photos of Cubby and Ian Fleming. Like Robert DeNiro in CAPE FEAR



    We do see what? Then they must have cut that in the German version. Or do you play that in slow motion: On all three views I just saw the detonation and then cut to the missiles hitting the island. Will check it next Thursdaxy, whe I get the DVD. Or I need to change my ophthalmologist. Not that I am keen to have gory details. In LTK the scene when Sanchez whips Lupe was also cut.
  • FarewellBondFarewellBond Australia
    Posts: 9
    matt_u wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    The notion that the movie tanked in the US is slightly wrong. Bond suffered from COVID far more than other films that benefited from a younger target. In the end Bond in the US will end up grossing only $10M less than F9. NTTD will end up being the 7th biggest film in NA this year… and SP for the record ended up 11th back in 2015.
    But SP faced a lot more competition than NTTD as many of the films that ordinarily would have provided competition have been held over to next year. The bottom line is that NTTD will be the 6th worst performing Bond film of all time in the US (inflation adjusted). LTK, TMWTGG, TLD, AVTAK, and OHMSS are the only films to perform worse, and it is telling that after three of these (OHMSS, AVTAK, LTK) the series moved on to a new Bond and a new direction.

    SP didn't faced a pandemic and a 18 months delay.

    I perfectly remember a piece by Mendelson on Forbes a couple of weeks before the first delay where he stated that NTTD was projected to end up grossing something in the $250M dollars range in NA if the film would've had a better reception than SP... and NTTD achieved that.

    EDIT: Listening to the spoiler free recent podcast.

    MGW said that Cubby would've been proud and happy of NTTD's ending because it represents a fitting resolution for Daniel's self contained 5 films storyline.

    Cary never saw OHMSS before getting the job and it ended up loving it.

    Loved this bit from Purvis: “He had nothing to live for and then found something to die for."

    It appears we are going to have to agree to disagree on the US performance, and that's fine.

    It has now been a month since I have seen the film, and to my surprise I have not been at all tempted to see it again - this is very much a 1st for me. This solidifies NTTD at the very bottom of my rankings, just behind SF, and very disappointing after the solidly-top-10 start with CR. And with talk the current production team wants to bring back CJF, I very much doubt I will bother with Bond 26 given how massively flawed their current effort is (above and beyond the ending). Fortunately I will always have the many earlier films (and novels and games) to fall back on (although even there I fear the bad taste left by the current film will limit my enjoyment of these as well, certainly for a while).
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 359
    Some additional takeaways from the new episode of the "official" NTTD podcast:

    1. It was Broccoli's idea to incorporate the YOLT elements from the novel (the poison garden & killing of Blofeld), which she had Fukunaga read. And it was Wilson's idea for the DNA targeted nanobots.

    2. There was a group meeting of principals in early 2017 to discuss and ultimately confirm the idea to kill Bond. Craig definitely didn't want to come back after Spectre, according to Wilson, though it's not stated outright that it was his idea or that it was a precondition for returning for B25. No mention is made of Danny Boyle.

    3. Linus Sandgren was a fan as a kid who made his own (super 8 Spielberg-style?) Bond-inspired short films.

    4. Broccoli, herself, casually refers to the Bond series as a "franchise".

    5. PWB dismisses ideas that she was brought aboard to specifically work on the women characters. But it was Fukunaga's decision about what to use & not use. She seems to have focused on the longstanding Bondian trope of undercutting seriousness with humour, which she is well aware of, and which (she says) meshes well with her own writing style.

    6. Chris Corbould says that a scene (or scenes) with the DB5 in Matera were shot that included different LED number plates (cf. GF), but which were ultimately cut from the film.

    7. Someone compared the choreography in the Bond & Paloma Cuba scene to that of an Astaire & Roger's musical.

    8. Set Decorator Véronique Melery went out of her way to populate scenes with references to Bond history, though no mention is made if she was instructed to do so. It was her idea to use the M portraits, at least one of which was taken from the EON archives and the other two (?) she had commissioned. A "discrete homage," she calls such touches. [And I would love to have heard more from her since I'm a sucker for this stuff.]

    9. The entire creative team (and crew) are consumed (like us, though perhaps not so obsessively, lol) by Bond history.

    10. Nomi was Broccoli's idea.

    11. Craig was intimately involved in shaping the storyline, especially its family aspects and ending. And it sounds like a lot of creative choices were made on-set.

    12. There is no hint of where EON will go next.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 7,322
    It's funny how "killing Blofeld" is listed there as a commonality between NTTD and YOLT (novel), and yet how it actually happened in the film only illustrates, to me, how different NTTD was from YOLT (novel) and how similar they should/could have been.

    Blofeld being killed is a part of YOLT, yes, but he didn't die like a sucker in a prison cell. He died in a swordfight with (a completely naked, iirc) James Bond in a Japanese castle surrounded by his death garden built on top of an active volcano. WELCOME TO HELL!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,289
    Fortunately I will always have the many earlier films (and novels and games) to fall back on (although even there I fear the bad taste left by the current film will limit my enjoyment of these as well, certainly for a while).
    Oh, no way. Just throw on one of your favourites & see how quickly you forget NTTD.... a few losers can't blot out decades of good stuff.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,322
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Fortunately I will always have the many earlier films (and novels and games) to fall back on (although even there I fear the bad taste left by the current film will limit my enjoyment of these as well, certainly for a while).
    Oh, no way. Just throw on one of your favourites & see how quickly you forget NTTD.... a few losers can't blot out decades of good stuff.

    This, don't be such a victim.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited December 2021 Posts: 1,707
    I just asked a co-worker if she wanted to watch NTTD, her response was, "Not really, I hear he dies." I had been lending her my DVDs and BluRays over the years, we even went to see QOS as part of a group when it came out.

    This is not the first time that I have run into this response. I told her that I sympathize, but I think that I talked her into giving it a try.
  • FarewellBondFarewellBond Australia
    Posts: 9
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Fortunately I will always have the many earlier films (and novels and games) to fall back on (although even there I fear the bad taste left by the current film will limit my enjoyment of these as well, certainly for a while).
    Oh, no way. Just throw on one of your favourites & see how quickly you forget NTTD.... a few losers can't blot out decades of good stuff.

    This, don't be such a victim.

    Not a "victim" at all - just a person with many choices as to what to do with my spare time, and will spend more time on things I genuinely enjoy now rather then spending time on the Bond "franchise" out of some misplaced feelings of nostalgia.
  • Posts: 207
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I just asked a co-worker if she wanted to watch NTTD, her response was, "Not really, I hear he dies." I had been lending her my DVDs and BluRays over the years, we even went to see QOS as part of a group when it came out.

    This is not the first time that I have run into this response. I told her that I sympathize, but I think that I talked her into giving it a try.
    Hopefully she gives it a try. I’m sure there are plenty of Bond fans, including myself, who had the same mindset when they found out. But a lot of us still enjoyed it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,289
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I just asked a co-worker if she wanted to watch NTTD, her response was, "Not really, I hear he dies." I had been lending her my DVDs and BluRays over the years, we even went to see QOS as part of a group when it came out.

    This is not the first time that I have run into this response. I told her that I sympathize, but I think that I talked her into giving it a try.
    I don't see this ending well.
    :P
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited December 2021 Posts: 1,707
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I just asked a co-worker if she wanted to watch NTTD, her response was, "Not really, I hear he dies." I had been lending her my DVDs and BluRays over the years, we even went to see QOS as part of a group when it came out.

    This is not the first time that I have run into this response. I told her that I sympathize, but I think that I talked her into giving it a try.
    Hopefully she gives it a try. I’m sure there are plenty of Bond fans, including myself, who had the same mindset when they found out. But a lot of us still enjoyed it.

    I was like that too. I almost didn't go. It really did stop me from enjoying my first viewing, with the death on my mind the entire time. Which really sucks because how often do we get tosavor a new Bond film for the first time anymore. As it stands, I certainly love a big chunk of it, and will probably never warm to some of the big decisions made, or to length and amount of time wasted on soap opera drivel. But mainly I think I would have had a blast for most of that first viewing if it hadn't been spoiled.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,268
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I just asked a co-worker if she wanted to watch NTTD, her response was, "Not really, I hear he dies." I had been lending her my DVDs and BluRays over the years, we even went to see QOS as part of a group when it came out.

    This is not the first time that I have run into this response. I told her that I sympathize, but I think that I talked her into giving it a try.
    Hopefully she gives it a try. I’m sure there are plenty of Bond fans, including myself, who had the same mindset when they found out. But a lot of us still enjoyed it.

    I was like that too. I almost didn't go. It really did stop me from enjoying my first viewing, with the death on my mind the entire time. Which really sucks because how often do we get tosavor a new Bond film for the first time anymore. As it stands, I certainly love a big chunk of it, and will probably never warm to some of the big decisions made, or to length and amount of time wasted on soap opera drivel. But mainly I think I would have had a blast for most of that first viewing if it hadn't been spoiled.

    I've just tried to accept that I'll never experience Bond "fresh" again unless I completely avoid movie sites and this forum for at least a few years before the release of a new installment, which is impossible for me.

    In fact, I've stated it before but I think the death was easier for me to come to terms with when I knew about it in advance. Still, I wish I could've experienced that fresh, though, as I really didn't expect them to do it.
  • Posts: 207
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I just asked a co-worker if she wanted to watch NTTD, her response was, "Not really, I hear he dies." I had been lending her my DVDs and BluRays over the years, we even went to see QOS as part of a group when it came out.

    This is not the first time that I have run into this response. I told her that I sympathize, but I think that I talked her into giving it a try.
    Hopefully she gives it a try. I’m sure there are plenty of Bond fans, including myself, who had the same mindset when they found out. But a lot of us still enjoyed it.

    I was like that too. I almost didn't go. It really did stop me from enjoying my first viewing, with the death on my mind the entire time. Which really sucks because how often do we get tosavor a new Bond film for the first time anymore. As it stands, I certainly love a big chunk of it, and will probably never warm to some of the big decisions made, or to length and amount of time wasted on soap opera drivel. But mainly I think I would have had a blast for most of that first viewing if it hadn't been spoiled.
    I did wonder while walking out, how much different the viewing would have been if I had no idea about the death? Oh well, I still had a great time seeing it. The PTS was awesome to see on the big screen.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,289
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I just asked a co-worker if she wanted to watch NTTD, her response was, "Not really, I hear he dies." I had been lending her my DVDs and BluRays over the years, we even went to see QOS as part of a group when it came out.

    This is not the first time that I have run into this response. I told her that I sympathize, but I think that I talked her into giving it a try.
    Hopefully she gives it a try. I’m sure there are plenty of Bond fans, including myself, who had the same mindset when they found out. But a lot of us still enjoyed it.

    I was like that too. I almost didn't go. It really did stop me from enjoying my first viewing, with the death on my mind the entire time. Which really sucks because how often do we get tosavor a new Bond film for the first time anymore. As it stands, I certainly love a big chunk of it, and will probably never warm to some of the big decisions made, or to length and amount of time wasted on soap opera drivel. But mainly I think I would have had a blast for most of that first viewing if it hadn't been spoiled.
    I did wonder while walking out, how much different the viewing would have been if I had no idea about the death? Oh well, I still had a great time seeing it. The PTS was awesome to see on the big screen.

    I would have been REALLY pissed. That why I intentionally self-spoiled. And I was right in my hunch. This way I came away just super-meh-ed.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,336
    marc wrote: »
    Quite alright, us Canadians are pretty samey.

    Now the other fella should have The Other Fella as location.

    We're all the same, fella.
    diamonds-are-forever.jpg

    I'm glad volunteers were, understandably, rather scarce.
  • :))

    Honest, after NTTD I would like a follow-up in the vein of Diamonds Are Forever.
    The plot: James Bond Needs Revenge on Blofeld. Who cares about what happened in the previous movie! Just ham it up a bit.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,289
    :))

    Honest, after NTTD I would like a follow-up in the vein of Diamonds Are Forever.
    The plot: James Bond Needs Revenge on Blofeld. Who cares about what happened in the previous movie! Just ham it up a bit.

    I'd rather Aiden Turner just do a proper mission. Like a good adaptation of Moonraker.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 214

    Not a "victim" at all - just a person with many choices as to what to do with my spare time, and will spend more time on things I genuinely enjoy now rather then spending time on the Bond "franchise" out of some misplaced feelings of nostalgia.

    uh....whatever. Enjoy.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 207
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I just asked a co-worker if she wanted to watch NTTD, her response was, "Not really, I hear he dies." I had been lending her my DVDs and BluRays over the years, we even went to see QOS as part of a group when it came out.

    This is not the first time that I have run into this response. I told her that I sympathize, but I think that I talked her into giving it a try.
    Hopefully she gives it a try. I’m sure there are plenty of Bond fans, including myself, who had the same mindset when they found out. But a lot of us still enjoyed it.

    I was like that too. I almost didn't go. It really did stop me from enjoying my first viewing, with the death on my mind the entire time. Which really sucks because how often do we get tosavor a new Bond film for the first time anymore. As it stands, I certainly love a big chunk of it, and will probably never warm to some of the big decisions made, or to length and amount of time wasted on soap opera drivel. But mainly I think I would have had a blast for most of that first viewing if it hadn't been spoiled.
    I did wonder while walking out, how much different the viewing would have been if I had no idea about the death? Oh well, I still had a great time seeing it. The PTS was awesome to see on the big screen.

    I would have been REALLY pissed. That why I intentionally self-spoiled. And I was right in my hunch. This way I came away just super-meh-ed.

    I kind of knew when I heard Final Ascent. So I told myself I’m going to either self-spoil or get spoiled. I ended up getting spoiled by a YouTube video that was taken down fast. An enjoyable entry all in all, and I think it’s better than a lot of the films. Not quite in the top tier though due to some small nitpicks. The two people I went with loved it though.
  • echo wrote: »

    Look , I think that is right in the short-term, but that relies, like so much of the Craig era, on the goodwill built up in the decades that preceded the Craig films. There is very little that strikes me as sophisticated or stylish about the Craig films once we get past CR, apart from a perfunctory tux scene. That the film basically tanked in the US - which remains the world's biggest consumer market - should be causing a lot more concern than it seems to on these pages.

    I think a far more interesting question is why the films fortunes differ so much between the UK, Europe and the USA.

    I have always been surprised by the success of Craig-Bond in the USA. Two countries separated by a common language still holds good in a number of area including art and the USA itself has many distinctions.

    The films feel much more european than transatlantic to me.

    Mathieu Amarlic and the other European Actors added so much texture not to mention all the actress's.

    I do not think your right about the good will that preceded Craig- Bond the reality is Daniel got a lot more bums on seats that previously were not there and people came out saying my goodness there was a real story. There is a big Craig Bond audience which functions outside of this deep fan thing just as there is with any franchise where the numbers suddenly grow beyond the core.

    Not only were the stories flatlining before Daniel the audiences were to.

    The Craig films really lost momentum once Haggis was no longer involved as a screenwriter. It's pretty clear that he contributed some of the best elements of CR and QoS (the scene on the plane with Mathis?).

    And judging by his TV background, he could have plotted a proper multifilm arc for Bond.

    (I'm aware Haggis is having a lot of legal issues (that may be real, or may be Scientology-revenge-driven). Who knows?)

    i agree with this I would have had Skyfall connected to Quantum if only very sparingly and anticipated Obenhauser as the Number 1 of Quantum. I would have left Spectre and Blofeld alone it had become so hackneyed it was not worth rescuing.



  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 1,863
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I'd rather Aiden Turner just do a proper mission. Like a good adaptation of Moonraker.
    This. With TSWLM short story as the PTS, like Jetsetwilly suggested.

  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,336

    We're all the same, fella.
    diamonds-are-forever.jpg

    I'm afraid a personal appearance is quite out of the question.

    Honest, after NTTD I would like a follow-up in the vein of Diamonds Are Forever.
    The plot: James Bond Needs Revenge on Blofeld. Who cares about what happened in the previous movie! Just ham it up a bit.

    Indeed, I would like to have a sunnier mood or a villain like Gray's Blofeld; it would be possible to do without silly dialogue. Yes, besides the negatives, DAF also has a lot going for it.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited December 2021 Posts: 1,213
    marc wrote: »

    We're all the same, fella.
    diamonds-are-forever.jpg

    I'm afraid a personal appearance is quite out of the question.

    Honest, after NTTD I would like a follow-up in the vein of Diamonds Are Forever.
    The plot: James Bond Needs Revenge on Blofeld. Who cares about what happened in the previous movie! Just ham it up a bit.

    Indeed, I would like to have a sunnier mood or a villain like Gray's Blofeld; it would be possible to do without silly dialogue. Yes, besides the negatives, DAF also has a lot going for it.

    A more relaxed sunny villain, maybe... But not Charles "It's just a jump to the left" Gray... His Blofeld is the most silly Blofeld in the whole franchise. Probably Mankiewicz and Hamilton were responsible for it. DAF IMO is - unfortunately - a rather goofy Bond film. Not the most silly villain, but very close ...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,846
    I thought Charles Gray worked great for what DAF was. His Blofeld wouldn’t have worked with any of the other films, but it does for the tone and writing of DAF. Not all films are equal, and DAF stands as one of the more esoteric which is why fans hate it since it doesn’t conform to their idea of what makes a Bond film. It’s the same reason MR and Eric Serra’s score get hate.
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