Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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Comments

  • mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Barbara's being diplomatic when she's saying Bond will be a British man of any ethnicity. Bond being a man goes without saying. Anyone who believed Bond would ever be a woman was kidding themselves. The comment about any ethnicity is reasonable lip service just to shut people up. Barbara's made some questionable decisions but she's not crazy. When she inevitably does cast a white actor, a small handful of people will complain for all of 5 minutes and move on. Bond is white and he'll remain so.

    Or maybe she actually does think differently to you.

    Possibly but I doubt it. You people and guys like @thelivingroyale crack me up. The same thing he's accusing me of, setting myself up for disappointment is exactly what he's doing to himself. This isn't just about not liking what is a terrible idea but going off the fact that the character will remain as faithful to how he has always been. At least I have sound and legitimate reasons as to why I think Bond #7 will be white. What are the reasons that make you people so sure he won't? What, because it's about time Bond was portrayed other than white? Lol, no. When they cast the new actor, probably some white guy born in South Kensington I'll be sure to remind you that I told you so.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited December 2021 Posts: 9,329
    I don't know @Jimjambond ... I'm reading the same posts as you, and I don't see anyone suggesting that "it's about time Bond was portrayed other than white"....

    For me, I've now read several articles with Ms. Broccoli, and she has repeated this statement that Bond can be a man of any race or ethnicity... It's not an off the cuff quote from her... She's repeated it, as if bringing attention to the possibility. And yes, it has me wondering: is she leaning into this when she casts?....

    The world is changing, as are cinema's general audiences. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that the new James Bond physically represents the ever-changing world.

    On a personal note: I don't care who they choose; it's out of my hands so I barely give the idea much thought unless I chat with certain members or come on this thread.

    EoN seems quite gifted at casting their leading man, so I trust this will continue moving forth.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,209
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Barbara's being diplomatic when she's saying Bond will be a British man of any ethnicity. Bond being a man goes without saying. Anyone who believed Bond would ever be a woman was kidding themselves. The comment about any ethnicity is reasonable lip service just to shut people up. Barbara's made some questionable decisions but she's not crazy. When she inevitably does cast a white actor, a small handful of people will complain for all of 5 minutes and move on. Bond is white and he'll remain so.

    Or maybe she actually does think differently to you.

    Possibly but I doubt it.

    Based on what? You're saying she's not telling the truth, I don't see any reason to think that of anyone who hasn't been a habitual liar.
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    You people and guys like @thelivingroyale crack me up. The same thing he's accusing me of, setting myself up for disappointment is exactly what he's doing to himself.

    I don't think it's very pleasant to claim to laugh at people, it shows a certain intolerance for the opinions of others. And livingroyale isn't setting themselves up for disappointment at all, they're just stating a possibility. I don't think there's a preference even been stated.
    I think it could be interesting to do it, but if it's a white guy I won't be upset. I do just hope it's someone interesting in some way.
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    This isn't just about not liking what is a terrible idea but going off the fact that the character will remain as faithful to how he has always been. At least I have sound and legitimate reasons as to why I think Bond #7 will be white. What are the reasons that make you people so sure he won't? What, because it's about time Bond was portrayed other than white? Lol, no. When they cast the new actor, probably some white guy born in South Kensington I'll be sure to remind you that I told you so.

    I don't think you're reading what's been typed properly. No-one is sure, we're just saying it's a potential, for the reasons stated: a rather major one being that the person most responsible for picking the next guy has said she may well consider it. You've decided that she's not being truthful for some reason (even though she has equally very clearly spelt out that she's not interested in looking at a female), which really is setting yourself up for potential disappointment if she does decide to go that way. I won't be disappointed by any race chosen because I've actually listened to her and taken her words onboard; the only thing which could disappoint me would be the talent of the specific guy.


    peter wrote: »
    For me, I've now read several articles with Ms. Broccoli, and she has repeated this statement that Bond can be a man of any race or ethnicity... It's not an off the cuff quote from her... She's repeated it, as if bringing attention to the possibility. And yes, it has me wondering: is she leaning into this when she casts?....


    I would imagine it's true, it would be very awkward if some agent put their client forward and then said Eon had been lying about it and their client was dismissed out of hand. But she's left options open there quite wisely: they may well come across a white guy who is a million times better than any other option and go with him. The last time they were looking for a young guy and ended up with a guy in his late thirties, don't forget.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2021 Posts: 3,132
    Knowing what we know now, it looks as though all Craig had to do to get the job was to say yes. He even pointblank refused some of Martin Campbell's directions during the screentests and walked out halfway through the day because he got fed up of waiting around and it still didn't count against him! Barbara Broccoli clearly had her heart set on Craig and wouldn't countenance anyone else. Can't help suspecting that Cavill wasn't really in the running and was merely the John Gavin in case Dan said no.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 328
    peter wrote: »
    I don't know @Jimjambond ... I'm reading the same posts as you, and I don't see anyone suggesting that "it's about time Bond was portrayed other than white"....

    For me, I've now read several articles with Ms. Broccoli, and she has repeated this statement that Bond can be a man of any race or ethnicity... It's not an off the cuff quote from her... She's repeated it, as if bringing attention to the possibility. And yes, it has me wondering: is she leaning into this when she casts?....

    The world is changing, as are cinema's general audiences. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that the new James Bond physically represents the ever-changing world.

    On a personal note: I don't care who they choose; it's out of my hands so I barely give the idea much thought unless I chat with certain members or come on this thread.

    EoN seems quite gifted at casting their leading man, so I trust this will continue moving forth.

    People are too sensitive and quick to label others with a derogatory moniker which can cause alot more damage now more than ever. I'm sure the last thing Babs wants is to be remotely linked as a racist for overtly or even covertly suggesting Bond will always be a white man, everyone else need not bother applying. She'd have to be an idiot to fall into that trap, especially in this social media crazed world where it'll trend for days that James Bond producer is a racist for not wanting a black, brown, choose any colour other than white Bond. Bond-related news is in the press for dar less. Of course Babs will continue the narrative of Bond being any ethnicity. She's not dumb.

    @mtm and I will continue to laugh, not out of maliciousness or me being a dick but out of amazement that you people are suggesting that because Babs said what she said it must be true. Really? People in Hollywood lie all the time. This is nothing new. The Bond producers and actors lie all the time. Yeah, Blofeld isn't going to be in SP. Till date Andrew Garfield is denying he's involved in the new spider-man film but sure, let's believe them and take their word at face value...because they said. I cant believe my stance on this is even an issue to some. Anyway it's fine, whatever. Everyone is obviously free to beieve what they want.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,329
    @Jimjambond ... I honestly don't know what is going on in Barbara Broccoli's brain; I have a friend who is quite close to the family and he has described her as highly intelligent, genuine and a lovely soul. But outside of that I've no idea what's running through her head.

    However, in these interviews, it seems as she's setting rules; I think she's tired of hearing: will there ever be a female James Bond.

    And she's been clear: no.

    It's pretty hard for the corporate media to continue this line of questioning (although they continue to put in the effort). As an aside, no one called Barbara a misogynist for closing this door.

    But she has stated, with no guns being pointed at her head, that Bond can be a man of any race or ethnicity. Repeatedly.

    Unlike closing the door on a female James Bond, she just opened the door for the first James Bond who is not white.

    Within the film industry, her words carry weight. I could be wrong, but I don't remember another time that this has been stated by the Bond producers, nor so succinctly: James Bond can be of any race. This is as clear as a statement that a woman will never be James Bond.

    This brings a spotlight onto her, and people have taken note. This wasn't a slip of the tongue, nor do I think she is bluffing, nor being diplomatic. What I know of her seems to suggest that what she reveals to the media/public only comes after careful consideration.

    I think she's opened the door and is inviting all to audition for the role...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,209
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I don't know @Jimjambond ... I'm reading the same posts as you, and I don't see anyone suggesting that "it's about time Bond was portrayed other than white"....

    For me, I've now read several articles with Ms. Broccoli, and she has repeated this statement that Bond can be a man of any race or ethnicity... It's not an off the cuff quote from her... She's repeated it, as if bringing attention to the possibility. And yes, it has me wondering: is she leaning into this when she casts?....

    The world is changing, as are cinema's general audiences. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that the new James Bond physically represents the ever-changing world.

    On a personal note: I don't care who they choose; it's out of my hands so I barely give the idea much thought unless I chat with certain members or come on this thread.

    EoN seems quite gifted at casting their leading man, so I trust this will continue moving forth.

    People are too sensitive and quick to label others with a derogatory moniker which can cause alot more damage now more than ever. I'm sure the last thing Babs wants is to be remotely linked as a racist for overtly or even covertly suggesting Bond will always be a white man, everyone else need not bother applying.

    She was happy to say that Bond won't be a woman, though, even at a risk of being accused of being a sexist.
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    @mtm and I will continue to laugh, not out of maliciousness or me being a dick but out of amazement that you people are suggesting that because Babs said what she said it must be true. Really? People in Hollywood lie all the time. This is nothing new. The Bond producers and actors lie all the time.

    So if she said they were only looking at white actors you'd disbelieve her on that too?

    There's no reason to think she's lying other than, as far as I can see, wishful thinking. Don't forget, I may well be the one saying I told you so in a few months' time.

    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Yeah, Blofeld isn't going to be in SP. Till date Andrew Garfield is denying he's involved in the new spider-man film but sure, let's believe them and take their word at face value...because they said.

    Those are spoilers for specific film plots, protecting those is what storytellers do, it's not really the same thing at all.
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    I cant believe my stance on this is even an issue to some. Anyway it's fine, whatever. Everyone is obviously free to beieve what they want.

    I think if you're having to say that people are lying and then dismissively laughing at other forum members for giving their thoughts, then it's understandable that folks may raise objections to that, surely.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    peter wrote: »
    @Jimjambond ... I honestly don't know what is going on in Barbara Broccoli's brain; I have a friend who is quite close to the family and he has described her as highly intelligent, genuine and a lovely soul. But outside of that I've no idea what's running through her head.

    However, in these interviews, it seems as she's setting rules; I think she's tired of hearing: will there ever be a female James Bond.

    And she's been clear: no.

    It's pretty hard for the corporate media to continue this line of questioning (although they continue to put in the effort). As an aside, no one called Barbara a misogynist for closing this door.

    But she has stated, with no guns being pointed at her head, that Bond can be a man of any race or ethnicity. Repeatedly.

    Unlike closing the door on a female James Bond, she just opened the door for the first James Bond who is not white.

    Within the film industry, her words carry weight. I could be wrong, but I don't remember another time that this has been stated by the Bond producers, nor so succinctly: James Bond can be of any race. This is as clear as a statement that a woman will never be James Bond.

    This brings a spotlight onto her, and people have taken note. This wasn't a slip of the tongue, nor do I think she is bluffing, nor being diplomatic. What I know of her seems to suggest that what she reveals to the media/public only comes after careful consideration.

    I think she's opened the door and is inviting all to audition for the role...

    It's basically a 50/50 case. Either she plays the game and 'lies', if you will. Or, she really has opened the taboo door. Like I stated in my previous post I would be done with Bond until they got their heads right again. Other than that, the only Bond film I truly loved the past years was CR. Before that GE. Craig isn't my type of Bond, so I'm not really holding my breath. To each their own. Apart from that, I am forever grateful for the superb Bond films I wholeheartedly love such as GF and TLD, to name a few. They will always be there, like an old loyal friend.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,329
    @JeremyBondon my Dad passionately disliked Lazenby and called Moore The Saint, and not James Bond; I didn't particularly enjoy the Brosnan Era... But we call ourselves Bond fans... That's what makes this series quite special: it's a very big tent and it continues to make sure, whether you like choices made, or not, that it continues to evolve. And it evolves faster now than at any time in cinema history since audiences have also grown and changed. If James Bond is a man that represents today, it's inevitable that men of varied races and ethnicities will be auditioned (it's my feeling we will see a lot of them when the audition process begins), and if one is the perfect actor who beat out his competitors, EoN, Broccoli, MGM/Amazon won't hesitate to make history and cast the first Bond of color.
  • peter wrote: »
    @Jimjambond ... I honestly don't know what is going on in Barbara Broccoli's brain; I have a friend who is quite close to the family and he has described her as highly intelligent, genuine and a lovely soul. But outside of that I've no idea what's running through her head.

    However, in these interviews, it seems as she's setting rules; I think she's tired of hearing: will there ever be a female James Bond.

    And she's been clear: no.

    It's pretty hard for the corporate media to continue this line of questioning (although they continue to put in the effort). As an aside, no one called Barbara a misogynist for closing this door.

    But she has stated, with no guns being pointed at her head, that Bond can be a man of any race or ethnicity. Repeatedly.

    Unlike closing the door on a female James Bond, she just opened the door for the first James Bond who is not white.

    Within the film industry, her words carry weight. I could be wrong, but I don't remember another time that this has been stated by the Bond producers, nor so succinctly: James Bond can be of any race. This is as clear as a statement that a woman will never be James Bond.

    This brings a spotlight onto her, and people have taken note. This wasn't a slip of the tongue, nor do I think she is bluffing, nor being diplomatic. What I know of her seems to suggest that what she reveals to the media/public only comes after careful consideration.

    I think she's opened the door and is inviting all to audition for the role...

    Fair enough and hey, I have no doubt that she'll invite every British actor from every ethnic background to be considered, I just think she already knows what her decision will be when it comes to the actor's ethnicity.
  • Jimjambond wrote: »
    Possibly but I doubt it. You people and guys like @thelivingroyale crack me up. The same thing he's accusing me of, setting myself up for disappointment is exactly what he's doing to himself.

    Not really, because we never said we’d prefer a POC to get it. I’ve suggested tons of white actors on here over the years, and I’ve said many times that I’m sure whoever it is will be great, because I don’t think they’ve misfired with the casting. Me and @mtm have also agreed in the past that looks aren’t overly important when it comes to casting Bond. So, I don’t see how we’re setting ourselves up for disappointment, seeing as we’re fairly open minded about the casting. We just said it was a possibility. You’re the one desperately trying to convince yourself it’ll be cast the way you want, even ignoring quotes from the horse’s mouth telling you otherwise.

    And if she wasn’t allowed to say “Bond is white”, then why was she allowed to say he’s staying a man? A female Bond is a pretty popular suggestion in the media, and female led reboots are a bit of a trend at the minute. Shouldn’t she get “cancelled” for being sexist? I could be wrong of course. Maybe she is lying and being diplomatic. I don’t think that’s likely at all, but who knows. What you can’t say though is that you know that for certain. Even if you refuse to take her word on it, the amount of fans who would be fine with a POC getting the role, and some of the most popular suggestions in recent years (Idris Elba, Henry Golding, Rene Jean Page) should show you that “Bond can be played by any ethnicity” is an entirely valid perspective held by a lot of people. It’s absolutely projection to assume Barbara would never possibly agree with rhat perspective, with literally no evidence, and with multiple quotes saying the opposite. Even if she is lying, you don’t know.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    Does any Bond historian know if a POC has auditioned for the part before? If not I must admit that's a little saddening.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited December 2021 Posts: 8,166
    To borrow from the term a “soft reboot “ , often being diplomatic is telling a “soft lie”

    To be clear, that’s an observation, not an accusation.
  • baerrttbaerrtt United kingdom
    Posts: 16
    00Heaven wrote: »
    Does any Bond historian know if a POC has auditioned for the part before? If not I must admit that's a little saddening.

    I don't believe so no. Times have changed and I believe they'll be looking at other ethnicities for the part (Sope Dirisu is somebody I can see quite easily as Bond). This franchise has recast Moneypenny and Felix with non white actors so there's a precedent of sorts anyway.
  • Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.
  • Posts: 9,840
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    I will say it I hope you are right. but I think you are wrong that being said let me be clear I would still give a bond of color a shot to see if he impresses me.

    if he does great.. if not shrugs is what it is.
  • baerrttbaerrtt United kingdom
    Posts: 16
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    If they choose a Poc your reaction will be interesting because quite frankly I have a feeling it will happen.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,209
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    Are you able to express why they're different? They seem extremely similar, and her different answers are rather striking.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    Are you able to express why they're different? They seem extremely similar, and her different answers are rather striking.

    James Bond is a man, the whole world knows this, just like the whole world knows Mickey mouse is a mouse and not a giraffe. Making James Bond a woman is just a stupid idea and is an infinitely worse notion than changing Bond's ethnicity. Fortunately the world isn't too far gone for there to be outrage to keep a man what he is. It's a far easier and cleaner dismissal of Bond being a woman than it is to say, "Folks, we the producers hereby are thrilled to let you all know that James Bond will never be a person of colour. Stick that up your dojo and we look forward to seeing you in cinemas. Thanks, bye".
    However, with ethnicity there's more flexibility and hypothetical components to toy around with as a possibility that'll keep the Bond chatter perpetually going but it doesn't mean it'll actually happen.
  • baerrtt wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    If they choose a Poc your reaction will be interesting because quite frankly I have a feeling it will happen.
    I have zero doubt that the next Bond actor will be a white man. We can see a parade of non white British actors being suggested all day long but it's a smoke screen...and when I'm proven right, just remember this moment.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,209
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    Are you able to express why they're different? They seem extremely similar, and her different answers are rather striking.

    James Bond is a man, the whole world knows this, just like the whole world knows Mickey mouse is a mouse and not a giraffe. Making James Bond a woman is just a stupid idea and is an infinitely worse notion than changing Bond's ethnicity. Fortunately the world isn't too far gone for there to be outrage to keep a man what he is. It's a far easier and cleaner dismissal of Bond being a woman than it is to say, "Folks, we the producers hereby are thrilled to let you all know that James Bond will never be a person of colour. Stick that up your dojo and we look forward to seeing you in cinemas. Thanks, bye".
    However, with ethnicity there's more flexibility and hypothetical components to toy around with as a possibility that'll keep the Bond chatter perpetually going but it doesn't mean it'll actually happen.

    Yes I agree, there is indeed flexibility in his race and a possibility it will happen then. That's all we've been saying, glad you understand.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    Are you able to express why they're different? They seem extremely similar, and her different answers are rather striking.

    James Bond is a man, the whole world knows this, just like the whole world knows Mickey mouse is a mouse and not a giraffe. Making James Bond a woman is just a stupid idea and is an infinitely worse notion than changing Bond's ethnicity. Fortunately the world isn't too far gone for there to be outrage to keep a man what he is. It's a far easier and cleaner dismissal of Bond being a woman than it is to say, "Folks, we the producers hereby are thrilled to let you all know that James Bond will never be a person of colour. Stick that up your dojo and we look forward to seeing you in cinemas. Thanks, bye".
    However, with ethnicity there's more flexibility and hypothetical components to toy around with as a possibility that'll keep the Bond chatter perpetually going but it doesn't mean it'll actually happen.

    Yes I agree, there is indeed flexibility in his race and a possibility it will happen then. That's all we've been saying, glad you understand.

    Plot twist, ethnicity doesn't equal race.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,209
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    Are you able to express why they're different? They seem extremely similar, and her different answers are rather striking.

    James Bond is a man, the whole world knows this, just like the whole world knows Mickey mouse is a mouse and not a giraffe. Making James Bond a woman is just a stupid idea and is an infinitely worse notion than changing Bond's ethnicity. Fortunately the world isn't too far gone for there to be outrage to keep a man what he is. It's a far easier and cleaner dismissal of Bond being a woman than it is to say, "Folks, we the producers hereby are thrilled to let you all know that James Bond will never be a person of colour. Stick that up your dojo and we look forward to seeing you in cinemas. Thanks, bye".
    However, with ethnicity there's more flexibility and hypothetical components to toy around with as a possibility that'll keep the Bond chatter perpetually going but it doesn't mean it'll actually happen.

    Yes I agree, there is indeed flexibility in his race and a possibility it will happen then. That's all we've been saying, glad you understand.

    Plot twist, ethnicity doesn't equal race.

    That’s not relevant to the post you quoted.
    And it is indeed what Ms Broccoli said, as I and others have pointed out, so why you think that’s some kind of killing blow to point that out is beyond me.
  • Posts: 7,507
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    Are you able to express why they're different? They seem extremely similar, and her different answers are rather striking.

    James Bond is a man, the whole world knows this, just like the whole world knows Mickey mouse is a mouse and not a giraffe. Making James Bond a woman is just a stupid idea and is an infinitely worse notion than changing Bond's ethnicity. Fortunately the world isn't too far gone for there to be outrage to keep a man what he is. It's a far easier and cleaner dismissal of Bond being a woman than it is to say, "Folks, we the producers hereby are thrilled to let you all know that James Bond will never be a person of colour. Stick that up your dojo and we look forward to seeing you in cinemas. Thanks, bye".
    However, with ethnicity there's more flexibility and hypothetical components to toy around with as a possibility that'll keep the Bond chatter perpetually going but it doesn't mean it'll actually happen.

    Yes I agree, there is indeed flexibility in his race and a possibility it will happen then. That's all we've been saying, glad you understand.


    ;))
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 1,220
    I don’t see what the big deal is about a POC Bond. Just about every person I’ve spoken to about it is on board with the idea. As long as he’s British, handsome, charming, suave, convincing as a cold blooded killer, etc. there’ll be no complaints. I think it’s a fairly small subset of the overall audience that is opposed to the idea and if the actor gives a good performance they’ll come around. Obviously there’ll always be those who will never accept it no matter how good the portrayal is, but who really cares about what they think?
  • Posts: 7,507
    I don’t see what the big deal is about a POC Bond. Just about every person I’ve spoken to about it is on board with the idea. As long as he’s British, handsome, charming, suave, convincing as a cold blooded killer, etc. there’ll be no complaints. I think it’s a fairly small subset of the overall audience that is opposed to the idea and if the actor gives a good performance they’ll come around. Obviously there’ll always be those who will never accept it no matter how good the portrayal is, but who really cares about what they think?


    Let's face it: A lot of hardcore Bond fans are extremely conservative. This is mainly where the dissent comes from. The general audience is more than open for a black Bond.
  • Music break...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,209
    jobo wrote: »
    I don’t see what the big deal is about a POC Bond. Just about every person I’ve spoken to about it is on board with the idea. As long as he’s British, handsome, charming, suave, convincing as a cold blooded killer, etc. there’ll be no complaints. I think it’s a fairly small subset of the overall audience that is opposed to the idea and if the actor gives a good performance they’ll come around. Obviously there’ll always be those who will never accept it no matter how good the portrayal is, but who really cares about what they think?


    Let's face it: A lot of hardcore Bond fans are extremely conservative. This is mainly where the dissent comes from. The general audience is more than open for a black Bond.

    Yeah I think you're right: and that makes sense really- fans are only fans because they liked the way it used to be. That's not a criticism, it's just the nature of fandom. So a larger subset of fans will be opposed to change than the general audience are.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    Are you able to express why they're different? They seem extremely similar, and her different answers are rather striking.

    James Bond is a man, the whole world knows this, just like the whole world knows Mickey mouse is a mouse and not a giraffe. Making James Bond a woman is just a stupid idea and is an infinitely worse notion than changing Bond's ethnicity. Fortunately the world isn't too far gone for there to be outrage to keep a man what he is. It's a far easier and cleaner dismissal of Bond being a woman than it is to say, "Folks, we the producers hereby are thrilled to let you all know that James Bond will never be a person of colour. Stick that up your dojo and we look forward to seeing you in cinemas. Thanks, bye".
    However, with ethnicity there's more flexibility and hypothetical components to toy around with as a possibility that'll keep the Bond chatter perpetually going but it doesn't mean it'll actually happen.

    Yes I agree, there is indeed flexibility in his race and a possibility it will happen then. That's all we've been saying, glad you understand.

    Plot twist, ethnicity doesn't equal race.

    That’s not relevant to the post you quoted.
    And it is indeed what Ms Broccoli said, as I and others have pointed out, so why you think that’s some kind of killing blow to point that out is beyond me.

    They are not the same. That is all.
    mtm wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I don’t see what the big deal is about a POC Bond. Just about every person I’ve spoken to about it is on board with the idea. As long as he’s British, handsome, charming, suave, convincing as a cold blooded killer, etc. there’ll be no complaints. I think it’s a fairly small subset of the overall audience that is opposed to the idea and if the actor gives a good performance they’ll come around. Obviously there’ll always be those who will never accept it no matter how good the portrayal is, but who really cares about what they think?


    Let's face it: A lot of hardcore Bond fans are extremely conservative. This is mainly where the dissent comes from. The general audience is more than open for a black Bond.

    Yeah I think you're right: and that makes sense really- fans are only fans because they liked the way it used to be. That's not a criticism, it's just the nature of fandom. So a larger subset of fans will be opposed to change than the general audience are.

    The general audience isn't black and white about it. Pun intended. A lot do care and a lot don't. Wouldn't be surprised if it's about the same in % as on here.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 12,837
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Ancillary characters don't carry the same weight the lead character of a 70 year old IP. Bond isn't going to be anything but white. Mark my words.

    Also, the comparison to Barbara dismissing Bond as a woman isn't the same as her outright saying Bond is and will forever be a white man. The 2 aren't remotely the same. You're comparing apples to otanges.

    Are you able to express why they're different? They seem extremely similar, and her different answers are rather striking.

    James Bond is a man, the whole world knows this, just like the whole world knows Mickey mouse is a mouse and not a giraffe. Making James Bond a woman is just a stupid idea and is an infinitely worse notion than changing Bond's ethnicity. Fortunately the world isn't too far gone for there to be outrage to keep a man what he is. It's a far easier and cleaner dismissal of Bond being a woman than it is to say, "Folks, we the producers hereby are thrilled to let you all know that James Bond will never be a person of colour. Stick that up your dojo and we look forward to seeing you in cinemas. Thanks, bye".
    However, with ethnicity there's more flexibility and hypothetical components to toy around with as a possibility that'll keep the Bond chatter perpetually going but it doesn't mean it'll actually happen.

    Yes I agree, there is indeed flexibility in his race and a possibility it will happen then. That's all we've been saying, glad you understand.

    Plot twist, ethnicity doesn't equal race.

    That’s not relevant to the post you quoted.
    And it is indeed what Ms Broccoli said, as I and others have pointed out, so why you think that’s some kind of killing blow to point that out is beyond me.

    They are not the same. That is all.
    mtm wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I don’t see what the big deal is about a POC Bond. Just about every person I’ve spoken to about it is on board with the idea. As long as he’s British, handsome, charming, suave, convincing as a cold blooded killer, etc. there’ll be no complaints. I think it’s a fairly small subset of the overall audience that is opposed to the idea and if the actor gives a good performance they’ll come around. Obviously there’ll always be those who will never accept it no matter how good the portrayal is, but who really cares about what they think?


    Let's face it: A lot of hardcore Bond fans are extremely conservative. This is mainly where the dissent comes from. The general audience is more than open for a black Bond.

    Yeah I think you're right: and that makes sense really- fans are only fans because they liked the way it used to be. That's not a criticism, it's just the nature of fandom. So a larger subset of fans will be opposed to change than the general audience are.

    The general audience isn't black and white about it. Pun intended. A lot do care and a lot don't. Wouldn't be surprised if it's about the same in % as on here.

    I’m fine if they change it up and fine if they stick with white guys, but if they do change his race, then I think it’ll much more popular an idea than it is on here. I’m sure there’d be a backlash, but the discourse around this sort of thing is always mostly in online spheres. Most people probably don’t even know Bond was based on a book series, nevermind caring about how faithful it is. I think the vast majority just want to see a good film, and even most of those who will swear to “never watch Bond again” would probably see it out of curiosity (look at when they turned Doctor Who into a woman, a lot of moaning online, but then it got the biggest ratings it’d seen for years).

    Might lose them a few Daily Mail readers, but the publicity it’d grab, and the potential of using that publicity to win over the younger demographic Bond has been struggling with, would outweigh the risk of that imo. I think it could be good for the success of the series, providing the film was good (again to use Doctor Who as an example, almost all those new viewers then stopped watching it again because it was dire).
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