Tomorrow Never Dies: what went wrong?

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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    I love Serra's romantic cues.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    echo wrote: »
    Vic’s sequences are certainly my least favorite. A real step down from GE. Thank goodness he was not hired back after DAD.

    TND features the cringeworthy escape from the newspaper on a little scooter. Yes, those were fun to ride...when I was in kindergarten.

    I don't remember the little scooter? What scooter is this?

    When he's exiting among the newspaper rolls...
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Vic’s sequences are certainly my least favorite. A real step down from GE. Thank goodness he was not hired back after DAD.

    TND features the cringeworthy escape from the newspaper on a little scooter. Yes, those were fun to ride...when I was in kindergarten.

    I don't remember the little scooter? What scooter is this?

    When he's exiting among the newspaper rolls...

    You rode a factory trolley around while you were in kindergarten? :))

    Kidding aside, I quite like that moment. The music is great and I love the run and roll Bond does out the factory door.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Vic’s sequences are certainly my least favorite. A real step down from GE. Thank goodness he was not hired back after DAD.

    TND features the cringeworthy escape from the newspaper on a little scooter. Yes, those were fun to ride...when I was in kindergarten.

    I don't remember the little scooter? What scooter is this?

    When he's exiting among the newspaper rolls...

    You rode a factory trolley around while you were in kindergarten? :))

    Kidding aside, I quite like that moment. The music is great and I love the run and roll Bond does out the factory door.

    Yes, every set piece in that movie is golden for me.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,999
    The way Arnold scores TND sounds more like a parody score straight out of Austin Powers rather than an earnest score Barry would have done.

    For example, how every time Bond replied to Q’s questionnaire, Arnold have a horn blaring to punctuate the humor. Except all he’s doing is making the scene obnoxious.

    Arnold thankfully got slightly better over the years, especially by QOS. I’m ultimately glad EON stopped inviting him back to scoring so that we would get more interesting composers. As long as EON doesn’t listen to fans that don’t know any better about music, the better off the films. ;)
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,050
    The way Arnold scores TND sounds more like a parody score straight out of Austin Powers rather than an earnest score Barry would have done.

    For example, how every time Bond replied to Q’s questionnaire, Arnold have a horn blaring to punctuate the humor. Except all he’s doing is making the scene obnoxious.

    Arnold thankfully got slightly better over the years, especially by QOS. I’m ultimately glad EON stopped inviting him back to scoring so that we would get more interesting composers. As long as EON doesn’t listen to fans that don’t know any better about music, the better off the films. ;)

    If EON listened to the fans at this point, they would have also stopped inviting Purvis and Wade to write. That’s one area that TND is a favorite of mine: it doesn’t have a lot of their trademark mistakes in the script. In particular, M lets Bond do his mission! There’s no he’s the best we have, and I’ll never tell him that. Or why did you go rogue? Things that became a problem after this movie.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,250
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Vic’s sequences are certainly my least favorite. A real step down from GE. Thank goodness he was not hired back after DAD.

    TND features the cringeworthy escape from the newspaper on a little scooter. Yes, those were fun to ride...when I was in kindergarten.

    I don't remember the little scooter? What scooter is this?

    When he's exiting among the newspaper rolls...

    You rode a factory trolley around while you were in kindergarten? :))

    Kidding aside, I quite like that moment. The music is great and I love the run and roll Bond does out the factory door.
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Vic’s sequences are certainly my least favorite. A real step down from GE. Thank goodness he was not hired back after DAD.

    TND features the cringeworthy escape from the newspaper on a little scooter. Yes, those were fun to ride...when I was in kindergarten.

    I don't remember the little scooter? What scooter is this?

    When he's exiting among the newspaper rolls...

    I also love this scene. He rides and rolls and, if I’m not mistaken, stands straight, fixes his tie and moves on….
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    The way Arnold scores TND sounds more like a parody score straight out of Austin Powers rather than an earnest score Barry would have done.

    For example, how every time Bond replied to Q’s questionnaire, Arnold have a horn blaring to punctuate the humor. Except all he’s doing is making the scene obnoxious.
    You seem to enjoy no sense of fun in these movies do you? So it's deadly serious or it's dead to you, eh? MY favourites are Daltons' but I enjoy most all of them...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The way Arnold scores TND sounds more like a parody score straight out of Austin Powers rather than an earnest score Barry would have done.

    For example, how every time Bond replied to Q’s questionnaire, Arnold have a horn blaring to punctuate the humor. Except all he’s doing is making the scene obnoxious.
    You seem to enjoy no sense of fun in these movies do you? So it's deadly serious or it's dead to you, eh? MY favourites are Daltons' but I enjoy most all of them...

    On the contrary, I greatly enjoy entries like DAF and MR. It’s just that TND lacks charm.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The way Arnold scores TND sounds more like a parody score straight out of Austin Powers rather than an earnest score Barry would have done.

    For example, how every time Bond replied to Q’s questionnaire, Arnold have a horn blaring to punctuate the humor. Except all he’s doing is making the scene obnoxious.
    You seem to enjoy no sense of fun in these movies do you? So it's deadly serious or it's dead to you, eh? MY favourites are Daltons' but I enjoy most all of them...

    On the contrary, I greatly enjoy entries like DAF and MR. It’s just that TND lacks charm.

    It lacks charm that appeals to you, you mean... right? Know what? Craig is my least favourite Bond, and I still list one of his films in my top 5 because I go by the film itself & not my actor/music/director prejudice. If you dislike TND that's cool, but do not pretend that it's a bad movie because of that.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The way Arnold scores TND sounds more like a parody score straight out of Austin Powers rather than an earnest score Barry would have done.

    For example, how every time Bond replied to Q’s questionnaire, Arnold have a horn blaring to punctuate the humor. Except all he’s doing is making the scene obnoxious.
    You seem to enjoy no sense of fun in these movies do you? So it's deadly serious or it's dead to you, eh? MY favourites are Daltons' but I enjoy most all of them...

    On the contrary, I greatly enjoy entries like DAF and MR. It’s just that TND lacks charm.

    It lacks charm that appeals to you, you mean... right? Know what? Craig is my least favourite Bond, and I still list one of his films in my top 5 because I go by the film itself & not my actor/music/director prejudice. If you dislike TND that's cool, but do not pretend that it's a bad movie because of that.

    Believe me, I have SO MANY reasons not to like TND.

    And it’s not all dependent on who’s the actor/composer/director. Otherwise I’d rank CR far lower. George Lazenby is not only the worst Bond but a terrible actor, but the rest of OHMSS is truly fantastic in spite of him.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 538
    i really lit off a powderkeg with this thread
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Believe me, I have SO MANY reasons not to like TND.
    I believe you. But I must assume so many of those reasons are personal. And that's okay. I hate NTTD with a burning passion, but it's not an entirely bad film- suicide, even when heroic, is a touchy subject for me. In fact, half of the better Bond movies are imperfect IMO. But even MR hath its charms.
    Peace, out.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,999
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    i really lit off a powderkeg with this thread

    It could be worse. We could all be uniformly agreeing that TND is great without dissent. ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    i really lit off a powderkeg with this thread

    'Splosions can be entertaining & informative. ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Believe me, I have SO MANY reasons not to like TND.
    I believe you. But I must assume so many of those reasons are personal. And that's okay. I hate NTTD with a burning passion, but it's not an entirely bad film- suicide, even when heroic, is a touchy subject for me. In fact, half of the better Bond movies are imperfect IMO. But even MR hath its charms.
    Peace, out.

    Judging all art is personal, is it not?
  • Posts: 207
    I wouldn't change the GE score. It fits the film and atmosphere perfectly.
  • I just can’t get into Tomorrow Never Dies, the only Bond film I dislike more is Die Another Day. It’s odd because I feel like some of the flaws are less obvious than a number of other Bond films, but it just bores me in a way most of the others don’t. The washed out visuals, the action scenes that feel like an editor artificially lengthened them by cutting in 5 minutes worth of B-roll of machine gun fire and explosions, and even the over used Bond theme all dilute the film into a hazy sludge of “Bondness” without carefully crafting moments that really stick with me. I *want* to like it — on paper it seems like a fun romp, and the Bond-by-the-numbers approach doesn’t even put me off. It’s just how it’s executed all comes together to nearly put me to sleep, which is a crime far worse than some of the more obviously flawed Moore films that manage to stay entertaining all the way through.
  • 'A hazy sludge of Bondness'. I love that!
  • Posts: 1,394
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Vic’s sequences are certainly my least favorite. A real step down from GE. Thank goodness he was not hired back after DAD.

    TND features the cringeworthy escape from the newspaper on a little scooter. Yes, those were fun to ride...when I was in kindergarten.

    I don't remember the little scooter? What scooter is this?

    When he's exiting among the newspaper rolls...

    You rode a factory trolley around while you were in kindergarten? :))

    Kidding aside, I quite like that moment. The music is great and I love the run and roll Bond does out the factory door.

    Yeah I love that bit and the swaggering rendition of the Bond theme Arnold uses there.Arnold was deft at scoring the action and romantic scenes just as John Barry was.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited November 2021 Posts: 4,247
    Tomorrow Never Dies's mission was simply to be a traditional Bond film...maybe that's its greatest sin....and if that's a sin, I won't mind being a sinner, because I absolutely love everything about TND....I could watch it and have watched it thrice a day...countless times!
  • Posts: 1,879
    echo wrote: »
    Vic’s sequences are certainly my least favorite. A real step down from GE. Thank goodness he was not hired back after DAD.

    TND features the cringeworthy escape from the newspaper on a little scooter. Yes, those were fun to ride...when I was in kindergarten. And the let's-hit-everyone-with-musical-instruments fight is equally bad.

    I actively dislike TND whenever I have the misfortune of thinking about it.

    Those are my feelings about TWINE. We go from the fun of TND to the by-the-numbers action of that along with the half-hearted attempts at drama, forced humor and a forced Bond girl.
  • Posts: 1,394
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Tomorrow Never Dies's mission was simply to be a traditional Bond film...maybe that's its greatest sin....and if that's a sin, I won't mind being a sinner, because I absolutely love everything about TND....I could watch it and have watched it thrice a day...countless times!

    Yay! Let’s keep it up people and turn this thread into a TND appreciation thread!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Tomorrow Never Dies's mission was simply to be a traditional Bond film...maybe that's its greatest sin....and if that's a sin, I won't mind being a sinner, because I absolutely love everything about TND....I could watch it and have watched it thrice a day...countless times!

    Yay! Let’s keep it up people and turn this thread into a TND appreciation thread!

    If I had to spend the rest of my life on a desert island and I was only allowed to have ONE Bond movie there, what would I pick? My favourite? No, I'd pick the one with the highest re-watchablity factor, and the one that's the most sheer fun. Tomorrow Never Dies, on both counts!
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    And if I had to pick one Bond movie to be forever removed from my sight, never to see be again, it would be TND
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    And if I had to pick one Bond movie to be forever removed from my sight, never to see be again, it would be TND

    In a series with a number of ill-conceived misfires, that's quite something.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2021 Posts: 17,687
    And if I had to pick one Bond movie to be forever removed from my sight, never to see be again, it would be TND

    In a series with a number of ill-conceived misfires, that's quite something.

    DraxCucumber gets A View To A Kill then. :-L
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 538
    I keep checking my notifications to see if my other comments get replies, but it's always just this topic
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    I keep checking my notifications to see if my other comments get replies, but it's always just this topic

    It's more fun at the moment to talk about topics like this than to debate the merits of Bond dying, I feel. We're not covering any new ground with this thread but at least it's generally a bit lighter.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2021 Posts: 17,687
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    I keep checking my notifications to see if my other comments get replies, but it's always just this topic

    That's because TND has two kinds of viewers here at MI6- the folks who love it, and the folks that pretend to only like 'great' films, but secretly DO enjoy it, but repress that ability to enjoy it to bolster their own self image as serious purveyors of high artistic standards, and they must respond to Brosnan negativity in general, and TND specifically... hence the popularity of your thread. :P

    Edit to add: Keep that safety on guys, I'm just chain-yankin' here. B-)
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