NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Critical Reaction and Box Office Performance

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Comments

  • Posts: 629
    JamesStock wrote: »
    As a fan who understands there is likely a lot more to consider, I feel like 3-4 years between films strikes the balance between keeping people engaged in the franchise and keep Bond films as "an event" and not burning the series out.

    Yes, you only have to look at the recent Star Wars films to realise how releasing films too frequently just burns away that big event feel and causes fatigue.



  • edited October 2021 Posts: 2,745
    JamesStock wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    @AstonLotus is deficient on critical thinking skills, which won't be surprising to anyone.
    I don't care how bad someone's argument is...doing a personal attack on this forum is not okay. Target the talking points, not the person.

    I'd leave it James. I've already sussed out what kind of individual Minion is, and now so is everyone else by the attacks he is making.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,219
    It is a flop. But it also doesn’t matter because of the Amazon sale. The next film is pretty much set in stone.

    $700 million during a pandemic it’s a flop only in a distort reality.
  • Posts: 680
    It needs 900 mill to break even. Money doesn’t care about pandemic.
  • Posts: 2,745
    Minion wrote: »
    Backpedaling after being called out. Ah, I love the sight of it.

    And I'm loving how pleasant you are to your fellow members. Keep up the good work mate. ;)
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,219
    It needs 900 mill to break even. Money doesn’t care about pandemic.

    We don’t know that for sure. Those are estimates made by a fan site. Variety speaks about $800 million to break even. There’s talk about $100 million as the total amount of money they received for product placement.
    Point is it’s fair to say Bond won’t break even just with its theatrical gross but things must be put into perspective. It’s not EoN’s fault that COVID happened. In the UK NTTD will outgross SP becoming the third highest grossing film ever. Call it a “flop” it’s just not fair.
  • manovermanover uk
    Posts: 169
    Most of this is speculation regards to what it needs to break even...simply put...we don't know...but it will be one of the biggest hits of the year...hopefully 700 million plus...who knows maybe even 750 million.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,219
    The only things that bothers me is that NTTD will likely ends up being the lowest grossing Craig film of the bunch, adjusting for inflation.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 2,015
    NTTD has had more than 2M viewers in France and is the fastest movie to reach that figure post-pandemic despiste having potentialy less screenings than others because of its length. NTTD becoming the #1 movie at the French box office for 2021 is a possibility (it depends on a lot of factors though, including the months to come with other movies, no one knows) ! What a weird "flop" !

    Btw, Cary Joji Fukunaga studied in France and speaks a perfect French and yet was not part of any promotion for the movie here as far as I know. Only Laura Seydoux and Dali Bessalah were on the TV for French interviews I think.
  • Posts: 3,316
    bondsum wrote: »
    Japan looks really disappointing at only $16.3M, especially for a population of 125.8 million that used to be really big on Bond.
    Bond used to be Big in Japan.
    Most definitely. I'm trying to think when the Bond series started to lose Japan. As we no longer get the box office breakdown of the Japanese market, it's hard to pinpoint exactly when things took a turn for the worse there. Does anyone from Japan here know the answer?
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Someone constantly struggling with the death of someone they knew for two weeks 15 years ago, never having fun and fer Wally being “emotional” (Christ I hate the term) make for good adult movies, but not young people. Make him likeable, cool, suave, funny, daring, successful, celebratory. But still a killer when he needs to be.

    Roger and Sean’s films are all a lot of fun.
    That's a valid point @Matt007 and one I can't honestly argue against.
  • Posts: 1,314
    I really like Daniels run. It’s unique and of itself. But when you think about the Connery ones, let’s take Goldfinger as an example the sheer amount of bravado and coolness is maybe the template they could follow moving forward.

    I think they largely achieved this is NTTD up until the decision to kill felix. That first hour is bond platinum
  • I thought NTTD struck a good balance in tone personally. I think a film can be fun while still packing a punch emotionally, and I thought they pulled that off with this one. I had a lot of fun with it. It was fast, thrilling, and had all sorts of cool classic Bond stuff. But it also had the most real feeling Bond I’d ever seen, and a real kick of an ending that made it a rollercoaster of emotions.

    I think stripping things down and going back to basics next is probably the right call, but I hope they don’t go full Roger Moore. Only he could pull that off, and I like Bond having a bit of depth.
  • DrinmanDrinman New York
    Posts: 40
    matt_u wrote: »
    The only things that bothers me is that NTTD will likely ends up being the lowest grossing Craig film of the bunch, adjusting for inflation.

    It looks like it’ll end up being the lowest grossing Bond movie in the US since LTK which I find sad because it’s definitely better than the majority of the films released since then.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 512
    Maybe Bond's influence is waning in America.

    I briefly mentioned to my coworkers I was at the new Bond movie and they were like "oh ok".
    If this were 9 years ago and I said "I saw Skyfall"; they'd probably be like "Oh, how is it? I've heard great things."
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,219
    Drinman wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    The only things that bothers me is that NTTD will likely ends up being the lowest grossing Craig film of the bunch, adjusting for inflation.

    It looks like it’ll end up being the lowest grossing Bond movie in the US since LTK which I find sad because it’s definitely better than the majority of the films released since then.

    If NTTD hits the $150 million mark it would outgross domestically (adjusting) LTK, TLD, AVTAK, DN and TMWTGG.
    Just for the record OHMSS grossed $170 million in NA.
  • Posts: 3,316
    So, you're saying NTTD isn't a water cooler movie @M16_Cart? I wonder why that is? Is it because they might have heard about the big spoilers and ending and can't be bothered to see it, or do you think they've simply grown tired of Craig as Bond?
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 512
    bondsum wrote: »
    So, you're saying NTTD isn't a water cooler movie @M16_Cart? I wonder why that is? Is it because they might have heard about the big spoilers and ending and can't be bothered to see it, or do you think they've simply grown tired of Craig as Bond?

    I don't think it has anything to do with the plot, ending or even Craig.; Just a relative lack of interest amongst younger people. (The 6-year gap partly to blame).

    Word of mouth is super super super super important for movies.

    If 1 friend tells you to see a movie, you might not. But if 4-5 of your friends are saying "dude, u REALLY gotta check this out", you'll probably see it. It seems like most people like it but not enough to go out and recommend it.

    When friends/family ask me what I think of the movie, I tell them if they like Craig's other films, they'll like this one a lot.

    But is NTTD a movie I would fervently recommend to the average Joe who has never seen a Bond movie before, or has maybe only seen 1-2 Bond movies like 10 years? Honestly... no.

    NTTD is very good for the fans who grew up on Bond. But for average Joe, it may not flush them with the kind of emotions it flushed me with. (I'm a huge Craig fan btw).

    Casino and Skyfall are the 2 watercooler films. But the other Craig films don't work as standalones.
  • Posts: 3,316
    Interesting @M16_Cart. Thanks for clarifying.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Maybe Bond's influence is waning in America.

    I briefly mentioned to my coworkers I was at the new Bond movie and they were like "oh ok".
    If this were 9 years ago and I said "I saw Skyfall"; they'd probably be like "Oh, how is it? I've heard great things."

    Marvel has really turned pop culture on its head. Even Star Wars isn’t the IP behemoth it once was.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,317
    James Bond Bests Venom Challenge to Continue U.K. Box Office Reign as ‘Dune’ Looms
    https://variety.com/2021/film/global/james-bond-venom-uk-ireland-box-office-1235092424/

    No Time To Die: £8.4 million (Total: £68.5 million)
    Venom: £6.1 million
    Halloween: £1.5 million
  • Minion wrote: »
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Maybe Bond's influence is waning in America.

    I briefly mentioned to my coworkers I was at the new Bond movie and they were like "oh ok".
    If this were 9 years ago and I said "I saw Skyfall"; they'd probably be like "Oh, how is it? I've heard great things."

    Marvel has really turned pop culture on its head. Even Star Wars isn’t the IP behemoth it once was.

    Is the US too big a market to ignore? Because while I appreciate that a change in direction is needed after Craig, I really don’t want Bond taking notes from Marvel and all those other superhero films. If they stripped the budget down, would the international numbers be enough to satisfy them?

    Just slightly worried myself. I think the blockbuster landscape is getting more and more homogenised in recent years. The reason I still like Bond, and the reason I think it still does so well here in the UK, other than it being ours, is that it’s different. There’s nothing else like it, and it still feels like a real event. I’d hate to lose that by pandering to superhero addicted young Americans, but will it be a choice between doing that and the series dying? (These are genuine questions, I know nowhere near as much about the industry as you lot).
  • Bond has already taken notes from Marvel and not quite pulled it off as well.
    Marvel creates a connected universe. EoN copy and have all the Craig films connected.
    Marvel gives Wolverine and Tony Stark daughters for their respective final films. EoN copy and give Bond a daughter for Craig's final film.

    They need to have Bond taking inspiration from the books. Just use the source material and adapt so it works. We have untapped Fleming works and his successors to look to. I'd never suggest making a Bond film is remotely easy but it doesn't have to be as difficult as they've made them out to be.
  • Posts: 512
    I expect the next Bond film to have traits of superhero films.

    Maybe with a Brosnan-like Bond that can both have the humor/lightness and do the action scenes too. But hopefully with better writing.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 12,679
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Bond has already taken notes from Marvel and not quite pulled it off as well.
    Marvel creates a connected universe. EoN copy and have all the Craig films connected.
    Marvel gives Wolverine and Tony Stark daughters for their respective final films. EoN copy and give Bond a daughter for Craig's final film.

    They need to have Bond taking inspiration from the books. Just use the source material and adapt so it works. We have untapped Fleming works and his successors to look to. I'd never suggest making a Bond film is remotely easy but it doesn't have to be as difficult as they've made them out to be.

    His successors? The continuation novels have as much legitimacy as the original film scripts. There’s bits they could nick, but they’re not the source material, and I doubt they’ll ever adapt one properly.

    And having the Craig films connected wasn’t copying Marvel. The Craig films started first remember. They were always connected, and a direct sequel isn’t the same thing as a universe. I don’t think those specific plot points were copied either. No Time To Die was written before the last Avengers film came out, and I’d imagine they gave him a daughter because it fit the themes they’d been exploring throughout this run.

    If the Craig films were inspired by anything, I think it’s Bourne (QoS) and Nolan’s Batman films (SF). But even there it’s not 1:1, and I think Bond has done a good job of carving out its own path in recent years, and positioning itself as this classy, awards season sort of blockbuster, that comes along every few years. Nothing like Marvel’s workman like films, nor the others trying to ape them (remember when Fast and Furious was about cars?) and the various failed universes that tried to do the same thing, imo.

    I don’t think they’ve made it out to be difficult either, and they still seem to be doing a good job from my perspective. As said above, NTTD is on track to be the 3rd highest grossing film ever in the UK. It’s got decent audience scores and strong reviews that praise it for its ambition and how many elements it successfully juggled. It’s a shame it’s not doing that well in the US, but I don’t know why we’re talking about it like its a failure, and I don’t know why fans think just sticking to the books would lead to higher box office receipts. The Craig films have been the most successful Bonds since the 60s, despite deviating from Fleming in significant ways.
  • Posts: 1,314
    How do we all feel about purvis and Wade continuing. I really think they’ve given us both the highs and lows of the series personally I’d like some new blood brought in but someone who recognises what it is that makes bond unique as a character. I feel that’s been diluted for many years
  • Posts: 2,358
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Japan looks really disappointing at only $16.3M, especially for a population of 125.8 million that used to be really big on Bond.
    Bond used to be Big in Japan.
    Most definitely. I'm trying to think when the Bond series started to lose Japan.

    "Yu fink we betta, hah?" might have been the beginning of it :)) :))
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 375
    Matt007 wrote: »
    How do we all feel about purvis and Wade continuing. I really think they’ve given us both the highs and lows of the series personally I’d like some new blood brought in but someone who recognises what it is that makes bond unique as a character. I feel that’s been diluted for many years

    It's difficult to judge their work because they always either rewrote other people's scripts or had theirs rewritten. Do we even know what elements of the Bond movies were their ideas? I guess DAD is their "purest" script, as I don't believe it had any other writers, but even then you have to take into account that ultimately they can only write what BB and MGW want.
  • slide_99 wrote: »
    Matt007 wrote: »
    How do we all feel about purvis and Wade continuing. I really think they’ve given us both the highs and lows of the series personally I’d like some new blood brought in but someone who recognises what it is that makes bond unique as a character. I feel that’s been diluted for many years

    It's difficult to judge their work because they always either rewrote other people's scripts or had theirs rewritten. Do we even know what elements of the Bond movies were their ideas? I guess DAD is their "purest" script, as I don't believe it had any other writers, but even then you have to take into account that ultimately they can only write what BB and MGW want.

    I think DAD had a fair bit of input from Tamahori too. I’d like some fresh blood writing the next one, but it probably helps to keep Purvis and Wade on speed dial, just in case anything needs touching up. They’re hit and miss but are decent enough imo, and I do think they get the character.

    What about Waller Bridge having a go as the sole writer? Probably too busy, but I think her additions were easy to spot in NTTD, and they really livened things up a bit. And fhe first season of Killing Eve was by far the best. I thought the narrative did fall apart slightly towards the end of that season, but I think she could handle a tight, small scale sort of plot. And if nothing else the dialogue would be entertaining, and the characters fleshed out.
  • Bond is a British character. One of our few world class exports albeit backed by the dollar. I don't want his personality/ character changing just to appeal to the younger crowd in for instance down town LA or wherever.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Riding a white swan to Matera
    Posts: 12,436
    Well, if I believed everything people are moaning about here, it would be depressing.
    Anyway, here in Japan, my cinema was HUGE and probably 2/3rd full all 3 times I saw NTTD. The wider Japanese audience polled, when it first came out, showed it the HIGHEST rated of all of Craig's films. There is still a solid Bond audience here. Maybe not as strong as in Roger's day, but I am not concerned.

    The film underperforming (?) in the U.S. is something I do not lose sleep over. Plenty of factors figure in to NTTD not being as strong at the box office in America; including the pandemic situation that is in America now.

    But Bond films are not in trouble; I do not believe that for a half second. The rest of the world is enjoying the film in the cinema. It is in no way a flop, critically or with the public. It is a controversial film, and that will lose some people but also draw others in who are curious. Reading this thread sounds like the films must change drastically in order to survive. The handwringing over America is pronounced. I simply do not feel that way.

    The next Bond movie will be made. Of course he will be British. And male. And there will be some fun, humor, beautiful locations, and we hope a good script. Daniel Craig raised the bar for the main actor - I mean, I want a really fine actor, and I do want some realism and serious moments in future Bond films. But It will be different from Craig's era, I think so ... especially in overall tone. Daniel's Bond was a very popular era of Bond films. Americans will be interested enough in who the next James Bond will be, so Bond 26 will be out of the gates okay. If pandemic under better control and not a 6 year wait for it. Therefore, if a good movie, it should do well at the box office.

    I do like to look at how Bond does globally; that is more important to me than just in America (my home country). EON are smart and will pay attention to everything, I'm sure. But I doubt they are losing sleep, gnashing teeth, or getting ulcers over the American box office either. Sure, we wish it would do better box office, but it is not dire.
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