NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • PJJPJJ Formby
    Posts: 6
    This ending is depressing for the whole Craig series of films. Vesper, the love of his life, dead. Mathis dead and chucked in the garbage. M dead. Felix dead. Now Bond dead. His daughter will grow up with no dad and we’ve seen what damage the loss of parents has done to Bond and Madeline. This isn’t what I want from Bond really. I appreciate I’m not the target audience for this anymore it’s aimed at the marvel generation. I just hope after the pandemic the reboot brings a change of tone to reflect more optimistic times.
  • Posts: 100
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I already feel the ending of this film is extremely iconic :)

    Controversial might be the better word! 😉
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 37,385
    007007x wrote: »
    I hate the ending, but if you look at it differently, Bond gets to be with Vesper in the end.

    That's one positive way to look at it, considering I've never thought Bond and Swann had any sort of chemistry whatsoever.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    edited October 2021 Posts: 346
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    007007x wrote: »
    I hate the ending, but if you look at it differently, Bond gets to be with Vesper in the end.

    That's one positive way to look at it, considering I've never thought Bond and Swann had any sort of chemistry whatsoever.

    I thought Lea Seydoux at least made more of an impact here than she did in Spectre (though that was not the actress' fault, imo). NTTD did do a good job of fleshing out Madeleine as a character, imo.
  • JohnBarryJohnBarry Dublin
    Posts: 34
    It just occurred to me that every significant character from Casino Royale is now dead:

    Bond
    Vesper
    M
    Felix
    Mathis
    Le Chiffre
    Mr White
  • Betty_May_KthatuBetty_May_Kthatu Hong Kong
    Posts: 10
    I totally agree on the melancholy of the ending, as it said in an earlier post, and others had said, would it have been too much to ask a Bond film to leave you elated rather than deflated.

    Also interesting to hear comments on use of OHMSS queues as I am still processing this. I do not think that the writers sat around the table saying "Look guys we are a bit short of ideas here, so can we ask Zimmer to bung some nostalgia tunes in to pad it out a bit..." I understand the viewpoint that it is trading off reverential parts of the Bond mythos and not augmenting it, but can also say say I enjoyed it at the same time. Personally when I saw them drive round the back of the Hercules plane I would have really a couple of notes hinting Hercules Take off from TLD.

    Anyway guess I need a second viewing...

  • Posts: 3,055
    It does say a lot that there was more chemistry between Bond and Paloma in 10 minutes, that there have been in two movies between Bond and Madeleine.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,263
    Why Nomi gives a phone to Bond to call M? First she wants Bond to stay away, then she gives him a phone to call his ex boss? IDK.
  • SmeetsSmeets London
    edited October 2021 Posts: 6
    My daughters were brimming with excitement before we went into the cinema. One of them said to me that she was more excited than anytime in the last 5 years. To see/experience their sadness and upset at the end of the movie has really annoyed me
    Yes Bond is formulaic, but you know what you are in for. This felt like a betrayal of that experience.
    They are SO upset, they didn't want to even talk about it this morning.
    I get that this movie is stylish, I get why film critics love it, I get why the cast and film makers are delighted and feel stretched...but is it supposed to make your daughters cry with genuine sadness. Is that the point of a Bond film? I don't think it is. I think you should walk away from a Bond movie exhilarated, laughing, punching the air. The excitement that I can remember having as a young child has been lovely to re-experience through my daughters....what a shame to see them so glum!
  • JohnBarryJohnBarry Dublin
    Posts: 34
    phibes72 wrote: »
    Saw No Time To Die, twice yesterday as I usually do on Bond opening day. I'm genuinely in turmoil over this film, I absolutely bloody love the first 152 mins of it, but the ending is genuinely upsetting. Has such a cruelty to it, after what Bond has gone through in Craig's 5 movie arc. Saying that I loved most of it, the action sequences were jaw dropping, the felix/bond stuff was great, Liked the new 007, and her good grace in letting Bond have the 007 title back, it was a nice touch. I actually liked Bond getting a kid, Craig's acting in this scene is superb. If they had wanted the Craig era to have a definite end, they could have had an aged Bond, sat in a chair with a whiskey looking at a picture of his wedding day with Madeline etc etc. Bookended the craig era with a positive note. Its so bleak, I love the ending of OHMSS, because we know Bond will live and get his revenge, but there is no hope here. Unlike some, though I loved the use of OHMSS music. Will see it a third time certainly.

    Cruelty is the word that I find most appropriate too about his death. In the end, Safin won by taking away Bond's future. Very bleak indeed.

    I'll be honest, if the blu-ray has the alternate ending where Bond survives, I think I'll edit that as my personal fan version of NTTD which would substantially increase its rewatchability for me.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,263
    There's no alternate ending lol.
  • JohnBarryJohnBarry Dublin
    Posts: 34
    matt_u wrote: »
    There's no alternate ending lol.

    DIdn't the director say he filmed one or two alternates? Or was that just pre-release hype.

  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    Did anyone else find the moment where Bond says 'Die Blofeld Die' really odd. I know they needed Bond to touch Blofeld in order to infect him, but it seemed very very forced and undid a lot of the great tension leading up to that moment.

    Well, it's another Fleming homage. These films have been full of them. I was shocked and delighted to see that one!

    Yes, I did recognise that and I do believe Bond strangles a few people in fits of range in the novels (Goldfinger too if I remember correctly). But there was something about Craig's performance or maybe the direction that just didn't work for me

    He also seemed to call him BloFIELD just before that as well (according to my ears at least and I have seen it twice).
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 4,994
    I thought the ending worked and made complete sense. The only I maybe would’ve changed is I probably would’ve shown his funeral. While I enjoyed both scenes that followed his death, it felt quite abrupt when those credits rolled.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    matt_u wrote: »
    This may be the most depressing thread ever. Jesus Christ…

    +1

    Just wait until a journalist joins the forums and we get an article about how us Bond fans are all moaning infants based on the evidence of this thread.... :))

    Well, it is a comment forum for Bond fans. Are we not allowed to discuss our immediate thoughts or do we all have to toe the party line?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited October 2021 Posts: 4,263
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    There's no alternate ending lol.

    DIdn't the director say he filmed one or two alternates? Or was that just pre-release hype.

    Never heard bout that man. Anyway, the concept behind this film is clear and an alternate ending where Bond survives wouldn't make sense...
  • LizWLizW England
    Posts: 30
    I have commented here a couple of times and follow a lot of the discussions but am not a regular. I have been watching Bond since I was a child, though (whichisratheralongtimeago). Anyway, my partner and I went to see NTTD last night and really liked it overall, including the ending. Some of the big set pieces, like the island bridge, were stunning. Craig always looks to me like he's actually fighting for his life in fist fights, not just throwing punches, and I thought there was quite a lot of tension. The plot struck me as particularly ironic given what we've just been through in terms of communicable diseases that may or may not have been leaked from a dodgy lab.

    As a woman, I liked the female characters and indeed, the little girls: young Madeleine was pretty kick-ass (I don't think I'd have been able to shoot a man and drag him through the snow as a young teenager) and Matilde wasn't soppily cute, but rather watchful. One of the problems I've always had with Bond is that the women are so disposable and expendable, although one has to remember that a lot of them were pretty strong characters in their own right, especially in the 60s and 70s. I still have fond memories of Fatima Blush's awesome outfits (as a little girl watching Bond movies, it's as much for the glamour as the action). That expendability is gone here: Paloma obviously is on her own agenda and just walks off, which worked for me.

    I also liked the irony of the bioweapon being a MI6 project (as one reviewer said, did they not think 'what could possibly go wrong?'), liked the sparring with M but also that the film allowed M to reclaim some dignity and also that Bond is pragmatic enough to drop it (he's not in a position to cast aspersions on anyone else's drinking habits, though!). I liked the possibly Mormon double-agent - he was more of a standout character for me than Eye Guy, mainly because clean cut Mid Westerners are usually the hero in these things. Though Nomi was good, and Lea Seydoux showed more of a range than in Spectre. I quite like her sombre demeanour, actually: it has grown on me. Scene at Q's house was pretty funny and Bond's comment about the cats amused me more than the rather cliched quips, which always made me groan, rather like Christmas crackers.

    One of the reasons we booked early, apart from actually finally wanting to see the damn film, was to avoid spoilers and I did, so the ending was a shock. I am tending towards the view that they'll have to do a complete reboot and not mention the death, which is a shame as I like the current MI6 team. The Craig era has not been entirely continuous, however, as Dench's M was a holdover from previous films and did not, for instance, remark "My God, James, you're a shorter, blonder man than you were a few weeks ago!" when Craig walks in instead of Brosnan (IIRC). However, Bond's actual demise is a bigger hurdle and it would look a bit odd if they keep the current team and no-one mentioned it. They could pull a Reichenbach Falls and explain it away (e.g. ground gives way beneath Bond's feet as the first missile hits, precipitates him into underground chamber, shockwave washes him up on a neighbouring island....sure, it's preposterous but no more so than some of his escapes).

    Continuity in these things is weird anyway and it doesn't do to examine it too closely. Original Bond would be about 8 years older than my mum and she's 93, so one has to accept this rolling forward of men with the same name. Peter O'Donnell once addressed this directly - I am a big Modesty Blaise fan and would far rather see a good film of that than a female Bond, by the way - and rewrote Modesty's history as a thought experiment: rather than growing up in the Second World War, he posited that she could have been born during one of the Balkan conflicts instead and followed the timeline from there.

    Anyway, overall, NTTD was definitely a winner for me.
  • JohnBarryJohnBarry Dublin
    Posts: 34
    matt_u wrote: »
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    There's no alternate ending lol.

    DIdn't the director say he filmed one or two alternates? Or was that just pre-release hype.

    Never heard bout that man. Anyway, the concept behind this film is clear and an alternate ending where Bond survives wouldn't make sense...

    Yes, it was certainly in the press although probably just baseless tabloid rumors.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 4,524
    (no kid) Final scene rewrite - better? or polishing pooh?

    On the way to the escape boat, Nomi is shot and wounded. They help her to the boat. Bond says his tearful goodbye to Madeleine and runs back into the plant. He makes it to the control room but, following Qs instructions, the silo doors won’t open. He punches the switches with frustration. Safin appears from a doorway and points a gun at Bond.

    Safin: You now have two issues, Mr Bond. The first, relatively simple, is that I’m pointing a loaded gun to your head. And the second. Well, to prevent a single madman launching the missiles, the controls were duplicated.

    (he gestures to a duplicate set of controls on the other side of the room)

    And need to be operated simultaneously. You’re a resourceful man but…not this time.

    Bond: A single madman you say?…I can see why you bought the place. Very you.

    Safin: Enough childish insults for one day…for a lifetime.

    He raises the gun but before he can shoot Bond, Safin is shot in the back by Madeleine who has returned to help.

    She embraces Bond and he shows her how to operate the duplicate controls. The silo doors open.

    Bond: (radio) A quick exit, Q. ideas?

    Q has been scanning the 3D plan of the plant.

    Q : (radio) Two floors down in the East corner, an old lift shaft. It drops down into the sea….I think.

    Bond: You think? I need a countdown.

    Bond and Madeleine race down to the location of the shaft. There is cage style lift with old metal doors (like CR) It’s clear the lift controls are rusted and not working.
    They embrace as Q confirms 5 seconds left. Still embracing, Bond fires 3 or 4 shots at the lift cable. The strands on the metal cable start to unwind and snap. One final shot, the cable snaps and the lift cage plunges down the shaft into the darkness. A fraction of a second later, the missiles hit the silos and the whole plant explodes.
  • If you think about it, it was like going to see a Ken Loach but with more action..... :))
  • I spent time on the site in 2018 when they filmed the movie. My main concern was they would kill off Madeleine in the Pre Titles and once it was clear she was the spine of the movie I withdrew.

    "No Time To Die" is the most layered most emotionally engaging movie of the series and only OHMSS and CR come close for me.

    I adored the direction and Linus work and at 2 hours 43 minutes it flew past.

    The action sequences were taught and quick and I was pleased in the denouement Bond was not faced by endless adversaries with me as a viewer becoming fatigued.

    This film was the flip side of QOS, where Bond communicated his journey almost exclusively in terms of physical action, for this movie it was the verbal narrative that dominated. I was in bits for Matera and enjoyed the more zany approach of the 1st Act.

    When the family came into play they all seemed to have been moved into a more emotionally tactile place... with one exception, Naomi seemed quite subdued.

    The scene with M and S really surprised I had assumed he was behind Matera. The emotional logic of giving Blofeld the chance to offer his psychopathy over his intervention which took away five years of their life was a great twist by Cary. Indeed taking the YOLT riff and giving it so much else really took the film to another level and that of course is down to his input. Phoebe gave everyone a much more real world feel for the goodies and zany bizarreness for the baddies cf. that thing on Netflix. Actually Ana was quite zany but loved her performance.

    I was beside myself for the last ten minutes but then I am an emotional junky and loved the Paradise... no Death ending.

    For me Bond represents moving beyond and out from the norm, the sad childhood and when he tries to find the door he can not and of course in that sense Madeleine and Bond are a mirror of each other (which is why it was doomed) and you can add Safin to that.

    A great end to a wonderful arc for me.

    Lea said as a player watching was very emotional, I feel the same.

    Things that did not trip them up.

    1) The call backs worked.

    2) The child, perfectly executed with M denying it was Bonds to begin with.

    3) The music was a mixture of Zimmer hammering and callbacks.

    Villains

    The scientist was close to hamming it and Meerkats spring to mind.

    Remi could not be heard all the time and I watched in IMAX. I think I need to see the film a few more times to make a judgement on him.

    As for the woke, I did not notice it and its something I hate so for me everyone was in the story and not offering woke placement. Check Out Star Trek Discovery for woke tiresomeness.

    I cannot wait to see it again Congrats to all and especially Lea, I hope as many aficionados love it but for Moore fans (the wilderness period as I call it) it could not be further away.












  • Posts: 158
    matt_u wrote: »
    jerome007 wrote: »
    My confusion lies in the fact that Mr White said his wife left him in Spectre. Madeleine failed to mention her mother was killed by Safin when telling Bond the story about finding the gun under the sink. But did say mother & father went back to Le Americain every year after they divorced. Doesn’t make sense. Also unless Mr White remarried I always assumed the woman he was with at the Opera in QOS was his wife. My head is spinning. Am I missing something? It’s late and I’m probably overthinking this 😁

    The woman at the opera is credited as his “girlfriend”.
    The one coming back to the Tangier hotel was just Mr. White.
    Makes sense to me that both father and daughter kept the truth about the mother to themselves. You don’t tell this sort of tragic traumatic things to strangers. Bond is even an enemy/assassin…
    matt_u wrote: »
    jerome007 wrote: »
    My confusion lies in the fact that Mr White said his wife left him in Spectre. Madeleine failed to mention her mother was killed by Safin when telling Bond the story about finding the gun under the sink. But did say mother & father went back to Le Americain every year after they divorced. Doesn’t make sense. Also unless Mr White remarried I always assumed the woman he was with at the Opera in QOS was his wife. My head is spinning. Am I missing something? It’s late and I’m probably overthinking this 😁

    The woman at the opera is credited as his “girlfriend”.
    The one coming back to the Tangier hotel was just Mr. White.
    Makes sense to me that both father and daughter kept the truth about the mother to themselves. You don’t tell this sort of tragic traumatic things to strangers. Bond is even an enemy/assassin…
    matt_u wrote: »
    jerome007 wrote: »
    My confusion lies in the fact that Mr White said his wife left him in Spectre. Madeleine failed to mention her mother was killed by Safin when telling Bond the story about finding the gun under the sink. But did say mother & father went back to Le Americain every year after they divorced. Doesn’t make sense. Also unless Mr White remarried I always assumed the woman he was with at the Opera in QOS was his wife. My head is spinning. Am I missing something? It’s late and I’m probably overthinking this 😁

    The woman at the opera is credited as his “girlfriend”.
    The one coming back to the Tangier hotel was just Mr. White.
    Makes sense to me that both father and daughter kept the truth about the mother to themselves. You don’t tell this sort of tragic traumatic things to strangers. Bond is even an enemy/assassin…
    matt_u wrote: »
    jerome007 wrote: »
    My confusion lies in the fact that Mr White said his wife left him in Spectre. Madeleine failed to mention her mother was killed by Safin when telling Bond the story about finding the gun under the sink. But did say mother & father went back to Le Americain every year after they divorced. Doesn’t make sense. Also unless Mr White remarried I always assumed the woman he was with at the Opera in QOS was his wife. My head is spinning. Am I missing something? It’s late and I’m probably overthinking this 😁

    The woman at the opera is credited as his “girlfriend”.
    The one coming back to the Tangier hotel was just Mr. White.
    Makes sense to me that both father and daughter kept the truth about the mother to themselves. You don’t tell this sort of tragic traumatic things to strangers. Bond is even an enemy/assassin…

  • edited October 2021 Posts: 158
    A nod to Sir Sean & Sir Rog would have been nice also. Also Dame Diana as well as other Bond alumni we’ve lost. Bad form all round.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 2,874
    octofinger wrote: »
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    Did anyone else find the moment where Bond says 'Die Blofeld Die' really odd. I know they needed Bond to touch Blofeld in order to infect him, but it seemed very very forced and undid a lot of the great tension leading up to that moment.

    Well, it's another Fleming homage. These films have been full of them. I was shocked and delighted to see that one!

    Use more Fleming!
    Use less Fleming!
    Use Fleming differently!

    You forgot one more -

    Use Fleming correctly (Dr. No, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, CR).

    No, that's "use Fleming differently". You're covered.

    You like when Vesper was used in CR06 and Bond reacted to her death nearly directly opposite to the way he did in the book, but maybe not when Bond strangles Blofeld in NTTD and says "Die, Blofeld die" like in the YOLT novel. Who cares?

    Thanks for covering me.

    I never said I didn't like the NTTD Blofeld bit...?

  • edited October 2021 Posts: 389
    jerome007 wrote: »
    A nod to Sir Sean & Sir Rog would have been nice also. Also Dame Diana as well as other Bond alumni we’ve lost. Bad form all round.

    Only Roger Moore was dead when they wrapped the filming, Dame Diana and Sean would have been alive when the film was originally slated for release.....ironic.
  • Posts: 3,316
    Oh, are we a tad little arrogant, Sirrah?
    Please elaborate @DoctorKaufmann. I'm rather nonplussed by my comment being associated with your puzzling assertion. :-?
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,455
    octofinger wrote: »
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    Did anyone else find the moment where Bond says 'Die Blofeld Die' really odd. I know they needed Bond to touch Blofeld in order to infect him, but it seemed very very forced and undid a lot of the great tension leading up to that moment.

    Well, it's another Fleming homage. These films have been full of them. I was shocked and delighted to see that one!

    Use more Fleming!
    Use less Fleming!
    Use Fleming differently!

    You forgot one more -

    Use Fleming correctly (Dr. No, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, CR).

    No, that's "use Fleming differently". You're covered.

    You like when Vesper was used in CR06 and Bond reacted to her death nearly directly opposite to the way he did in the book, but maybe not when Bond strangles Blofeld in NTTD and says "Die, Blofeld die" like in the YOLT novel. Who cares?

    Thanks for covering me.

    I never said I didn't like the NTTD Blofeld bit...?

    I dont know, it wasn't included on your arbitrary list of correctly used Fleming. Incidentally, you know who didn't think Fleming was used well in Dr No? Ian Fleming.
  • Posts: 5,735
    patb wrote: »
    (no kid) Final scene rewrite - better? or polishing pooh?

    On the way to the escape boat, Nomi is shot and wounded. They help her to the boat. Bond says his tearful goodbye to Madeleine and runs back into the plant. He makes it to the control room but, following Qs instructions, the silo doors won’t open. He punches the switches with frustration. Safin appears from a doorway and points a gun at Bond.

    Safin: You now have two issues, Mr Bond. The first, relatively simple, is that I’m pointing a loaded gun to your head. And the second. Well, to prevent a single madman launching the missiles, the controls were duplicated.

    (he gestures to a duplicate set of controls on the other side of the room)

    And need to be operated simultaneously. You’re a resourceful man but…not this time.

    Bond: A single madman you say?…I can see why you bought the place. Very you.

    Safin: Enough childish insults for one day…for a lifetime.

    He raises the gun but before he can shoot Bond, Safin is shot in the back by Madeleine who has returned to help.

    She embraces Bond and he shows her how to operate the duplicate controls. The silo doors open.

    Bond: (radio) A quick exit, Q. ideas?

    Q has been scanning the 3D plan of the plant.

    Q : (radio) Two floors down in the East corner, an old lift shaft. It drops down into the sea….I think.

    Bond: You think? I need a countdown.

    Bond and Madeleine race down to the location of the shaft. There is cage style lift with old metal doors (like CR) It’s clear the lift controls are rusted and not working.
    They embrace as Q confirms 5 seconds left. Still embracing, Bond fires 3 or 4 shots at the lift cable. The strands on the metal cable start to unwind and snap. One final shot, the cable snaps and the lift cage plunges down the shaft into the darkness. A fraction of a second later, the missiles hit the silos and the whole plant explodes.

    I would be here cheering the film. I really would. Well done, @patb.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,318
    Univex wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    (no kid) Final scene rewrite - better? or polishing pooh?

    On the way to the escape boat, Nomi is shot and wounded. They help her to the boat. Bond says his tearful goodbye to Madeleine and runs back into the plant. He makes it to the control room but, following Qs instructions, the silo doors won’t open. He punches the switches with frustration. Safin appears from a doorway and points a gun at Bond.

    Safin: You now have two issues, Mr Bond. The first, relatively simple, is that I’m pointing a loaded gun to your head. And the second. Well, to prevent a single madman launching the missiles, the controls were duplicated.

    (he gestures to a duplicate set of controls on the other side of the room)

    And need to be operated simultaneously. You’re a resourceful man but…not this time.

    Bond: A single madman you say?…I can see why you bought the place. Very you.

    Safin: Enough childish insults for one day…for a lifetime.

    He raises the gun but before he can shoot Bond, Safin is shot in the back by Madeleine who has returned to help.

    She embraces Bond and he shows her how to operate the duplicate controls. The silo doors open.

    Bond: (radio) A quick exit, Q. ideas?

    Q has been scanning the 3D plan of the plant.

    Q : (radio) Two floors down in the East corner, an old lift shaft. It drops down into the sea….I think.

    Bond: You think? I need a countdown.

    Bond and Madeleine race down to the location of the shaft. There is cage style lift with old metal doors (like CR) It’s clear the lift controls are rusted and not working.
    They embrace as Q confirms 5 seconds left. Still embracing, Bond fires 3 or 4 shots at the lift cable. The strands on the metal cable start to unwind and snap. One final shot, the cable snaps and the lift cage plunges down the shaft into the darkness. A fraction of a second later, the missiles hit the silos and the whole plant explodes.

    I would be here cheering the film. I really would. Well done, @patb.

    Ditto.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 1,545
    @patb well done mate, that's a much more satisfying ending.
    Bond just accepting his fate felt like a betrayal of everything the character stands for, in my opinion
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