NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • Posts: 3,279
    It’s a pity many of you aren’t open to the idea of giving Bond a death scene. Guess that’s how it is.

    Only if it was true to something written by its original creator Ian Fleming, and not something dreamt up by the indulgence of a lead actor, a female producer who is ashamed of anything Fleming wrote, and instead listens to the latest team of tick-boxing, PC correct, snowflake trendy writers, brought up on cheap Netflix dramas.

    The Flemimg ending of YOLT being used as Craig’s end would have been unsatisfying for me.

    That would have been far more satisfying that what we got instead. It's the most unsatisfying death ever - and totally not needed.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    One wonders what Ian Fleming would've thought about the idea of killing Bond off the way they did for this one if he was still alive today.....
  • Posts: 3,279
    imranbecks wrote: »
    One wonders what Ian Fleming would've thought about the idea of killing Bond off the way they did for this one if he was still alive today.....

    I think I heard both him and Cubby turning in their graves last night.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,020
    imranbecks wrote: »
    One wonders what Ian Fleming would've thought about the idea of killing Bond off the way they did for this one if he was still alive today.....

    If it made him money, he’d approve.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 573
    I have a question... What is the game that James and Felix are playing in the club in Jamaica? And is it a reference to anything which I might have missed?
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,684
    imranbecks wrote: »
    One wonders what Ian Fleming would've thought about the idea of killing Bond off the way they did for this one if he was still alive today.....

    If it made him money, he’d approve.

    This is the correct answer.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,020
    It’s a pity many of you aren’t open to the idea of giving Bond a death scene. Guess that’s how it is.

    Only if it was true to something written by its original creator Ian Fleming, and not something dreamt up by the indulgence of a lead actor, a female producer who is ashamed of anything Fleming wrote, and instead listens to the latest team of tick-boxing, PC correct, snowflake trendy writers, brought up on cheap Netflix dramas.

    The Flemimg ending of YOLT being used as Craig’s end would have been unsatisfying for me.

    That would have been far more satisfying that what we got instead. It's the most unsatisfying death ever - and totally not needed.

    If you’re against a definitive death, then yeah we’ll have to agree to disagree.
  • Posts: 3,279
    imranbecks wrote: »
    One wonders what Ian Fleming would've thought about the idea of killing Bond off the way they did for this one if he was still alive today.....

    If it made him money, he’d approve.

    Fleming never killed off Bond directly, even when he was fed up with writing the books. FRWL and YOLT both have cliffhanger endings, which I would have been all for.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,020
    So just because Fleming never had a chance to give Bond a definitive death means that option is verboten forever?

    Thank goodness the filmmakers don’t treat Bond like some rigid religion.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 716
    It’s a pity many of you aren’t open to the idea of giving Bond a death scene. Guess that’s how it is.

    It's not the one death scene, it's Bond being fractured into little self-contained eras that are going to have their own death scenes for Bond, Felix, Moneypenny, etc. because they are an easy way to make a film important. Super-hero comics do it all the time, and it's always a sign of a creative team who have run out of ideas and are taking an easy route to stand out in a crowd. It's short-term thinking, with a short-term gain but contributes to a long-term problem.

    Or at least that's how I see it.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,020
    It’s a pity many of you aren’t open to the idea of giving Bond a death scene. Guess that’s how it is.

    It's not the one death scene, it's Bond being fractured into little self-contained eras that are going to have their own death scenes for Bond, Felix, Moneypenny, etc. because they are an easy way to make a film important. Super-hero comics do it all the time, and it's always a sign of a creative team who have run out of ideas and are taking an easy route to stand out in a crowd. It's short-term thinking, with a short-term gain but contributes to a long-term problem.

    Or at least that's how I see it.

    That’s fine by me. I don’t care if we never have an uninterrupted continuity of 20 films ever again where we see a 50 year old gadget master stick to the role until his 80s.
  • Posts: 207
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Does anyone else think this is a bigger mistake than Die Another Day?

    I’m really quite angry about the way they see the character as disposable. There’s 60 years of love and investment in him. Thrown away for a mediocre melodrama that passes as emotion.

    At least with DAD I can have a laugh at how over the top and ridiculous it is. I’d take that any day over feeling angry and disappointed.

    Maybe in the future my feelings will change but right now I’m just angry about it.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Bond wrote: »
    I wonder how much discussion there was about what they did to Bond in the end? Does anyone know who pushed that idea? Did they consider that it might divide the fan base and hurt the box office? Just thinking out loud.

    Well we know now that the rumors about Danny Boyle leaving the project because of the fact that the producers wanted to "kill off Bond" were 100% true... so this has been in the works for a while. The producers were dedicated enough to the idea that they were willing to fire Danny Boyle over it. So yeah, they didn't "consider" shit.

    Here's the 2018 article from The Sun that was brushed off as tabloid B.S. at the time:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/7102013/danny-boyle-quit-james-bond-franchise-in-a-row-over-offing-the-super-spy-in-dramatic-finale-to-the-25th-film/

    Wow. Suddenly that doesn't seem so much of a BS. I don't blame Danny Boyle for leaving. I would've done the same thing. Only thing I hated was the ending.

    IMO, Barbara and Michael are putting themselves in a rough spot with that ending. Very bold. Very ambitious.

    Its the dumbest thing they've done to the franchise. How do you reboot now with a new actor? The film series has now lost all credibility in doing this.

    Does Bond miraculously turn up in the next one like nothing happened? At least if they followed the YOLT ending (which is just as dramatic and tragic), there was a way to continue with the next film with TMWTGG opening.

    I'm so angry at the ending. They've killed the franchise. They've killed the legacy. Fleming tried a couple of times but did just enough to leave the door open. Babs and co. should have followed this if they wanted to go down such a brave route.

    You literally just reboot the series with the next actor playing Bond and believe that the audience has the basic intelligence to understand that the Craig Bond films were their own continuity. It really is not difficult.

    It's something that didn't need to happen. There was another way of ending this in giving us the ending to YOLT. It was have tied up the Craig era nicely, starting with the Fleming origin story in CR, and ending it with YOLT (which was the closest we ever get to that kind of finale). They already started using material from that book, why not go the whole way?

    It still would have been a sad and tragic ending, and still would have remained faithful to Fleming - yet still would have left the door open for a new actor.

    Now we are back in another reboot territory again, only this time pissing off a lot of fans in what they've done with NTTD. Totally unnecessary.

    +1
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I imagine there was never going to be a one size fits all ending for everyone.

    Had bond escaped without being infected people would complain that he's gone to be a dad and live with his family.

    Had bond managed to escape and get amnesia then everyone he touches gets infected and eventually madeleine and mathilde die. People would complain then too.

    Instead bond dies and people complain anyway. I'd be interested to see the correlation between people who dislike the daughter aspect and the death aspect because I suspect there's nothing in this film that could have been done to make it better for you.

    In that respect just wait for bond 26. That's the only thing I can tell you.

    I absolutely love the fact he and Madeline had a daughter. Loathe that they killed Bond.
  • Posts: 6,675
    It’s a pity many of you aren’t open to the idea of giving Bond a death scene. Guess that’s how it is.

    Only if it was true to something written by its original creator Ian Fleming, and not something dreamt up by the indulgence of a lead actor, a female producer who is ashamed of anything Fleming wrote, and instead listens to the latest team of tick-boxing, PC correct, snowflake trendy writers, brought up on cheap Netflix dramas.

    I applauded at your post @jetsetwilly. Well said. Sad, but very much true.
  • JohnBarryJohnBarry Dublin
    Posts: 34
    DCisared wrote: »
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I imagine there was never going to be a one size fits all ending for everyone.

    Had bond escaped without being infected people would complain that he's gone to be a dad and live with his family.

    Had bond managed to escape and get amnesia then everyone he touches gets infected and eventually madeleine and mathilde die. People would complain then too.

    Instead bond dies and people complain anyway. I'd be interested to see the correlation between people who dislike the daughter aspect and the death aspect because I suspect there's nothing in this film that could have been done to make it better for you.

    In that respect just wait for bond 26. That's the only thing I can tell you.

    I absolutely love the fact he and Madeline had a daughter. Loathe that they killed Bond.

    I agree with this.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 573
    DCisared wrote: »
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I imagine there was never going to be a one size fits all ending for everyone.

    Had bond escaped without being infected people would complain that he's gone to be a dad and live with his family.

    Had bond managed to escape and get amnesia then everyone he touches gets infected and eventually madeleine and mathilde die. People would complain then too.

    Instead bond dies and people complain anyway. I'd be interested to see the correlation between people who dislike the daughter aspect and the death aspect because I suspect there's nothing in this film that could have been done to make it better for you.

    In that respect just wait for bond 26. That's the only thing I can tell you.

    I absolutely love the fact he and Madeline had a daughter. Loathe that they killed Bond.

    You do. I do. But we know there are many on here that won't. It would have been divisive no matter what way they went.

    I don't like that they did it either. Breaks my heart really. But that's what they went for. C'est la vie. There will be more Bond movies to look forward to in the future that will not break my heart. Maybe possibly one where he does get a happy ending with the girl and the possibility of a family. But you will hear the voices come again that they don't like it. It's impossible to please everyone :(.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,166
    Someone told me , just saw the email, that there is more action in NTTD than in all of Craig’s other Movies put together? Is this true? This person can exaggerate at times.

    No, on the contrary. If you take the length of the Madagascar chase in CR or the chase in Turkey from SF ( both around 8 minutes)....that's the car chase in Norway and Matera and the Cuba shootout combined. They are intense, but very short.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 526
    I u
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    The ending. I've never felt this disappointed watching a movie. It kills everything that was great leading up to it. So unnecessary. Cubby will be turning in his grave at what they've done to his franchise.
    This is my biggest fear. When I go to watch the film, I have this bad feeling that no matter how hard I try to enjoy everything leading up to the ending, I'm just going to be disappointed when the credits roll.

    Still going to watch it as soon as possible (and probably multiple times, let's be real) but I'm going in with extremely low expectations because I don't think I'm going to fully enjoy the movie no matter how hard I try.

    On the other hand, maybe it was for the best that I was spoiled the ending. I can't even imagine what a gut punch it would have been for me to watch it not knowing that was coming.

    I’m not going Zarrozor. Not going to put myself through misery, just to breakdown and cry at the end. Is it really worth it? Right now, you know you’re not going to like it, but it will take on a whole new level if you actually watch it. Just my perspective and my plan, but of course, it’s totally your call.
  • Posts: 6,675
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Someone told me , just saw the email, that there is more action in NTTD than in all of Craig’s other Movies put together? Is this true? This person can exaggerate at times.

    No, on the contrary. If you take the length of the Madagascar chase in CR or the chase in Turkey from SF ( both around 8 minutes)....that's the car chase in Norway and Matera and the Cuba shootout combined. They are intense, but very short.

    Yes, I thought that too. I thought they'd last longer.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,164
    imranbecks wrote: »
    There's a different gunbarrel apparently. This one is without the Universal logo transitioning into the gunbarrel which to me looks better. But still no blood...

    Sounds like the UAE got the 2020 print of the film! Guess this confirms the US opening will be this but just the new 2021 CGI Lion. But yup, I do prefer this to the international/Universal version. Guess we'll see which of these ends up on home ent given the digital release is all MGM worldwide while Blu-ray is Universal worldwide.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,279
    So just because Fleming never had a chance to give Bond a definitive death means that option is verboten forever?

    Thank goodness the filmmakers don’t treat Bond like some rigid religion.

    I just don't think it was needed. It was there just to give a shock Last Jedi type ending, which is what dumb teenage audiences now expect. Thrill-and-shock-a-minute, then on to the next flick or Netflix series to binge watch.

    It gives no or very little regard to the 50 year legacy that was created before it, and was just used as a cheap, sensationalist trick. Nothing more.
  • JohnBarryJohnBarry Dublin
    Posts: 34
    I actually liked Nomi. After all the inane (potentially manufactured) controversy about her character, she was basically the MI6 equivalent of Wai Lin but with a little more sass. I had no problem with her. The redesignation of Bond as 007 was nice but came out of nowhere.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    I actually liked Nomi. After all the inane (potentially manufactured) controversy about her character, she was basically the MI6 equivalent of Wai Lin but with a little more sass. I had no problem with her. The redesignation of Bond as 007 was nice but came out of nowhere.

    Yeah and when she was 007 and Bond became a double-0 again, what was his number? Nomi kept asking, "Bond is double-0 what?" but M did not respond..lol
  • Posts: 526
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Does anyone else think this is a bigger mistake than Die Another Day?

    I’m really quite angry about the way they see the character as disposable. There’s 60 years of love and investment in him. Thrown away for a mediocre melodrama that passes as emotion.

    I concur 100%. It’s like I said before: did they have a plan? Or was it done to indulge the creative cravings of 2 or 3 people. DC, MGW, BB. The audience of 3 is all that matters. To heck with 68 years of legacy, prestige and the feelings of a loyal and large fan base. IMHO.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,505
    Driving home from the film last night my Mrs said something that struck me, she said why is it no one in this film really found Bond attractive other than Madeline?
    She then pointed out it was awkward when Paloma brushed off Bond and even the way Bond awkwardly came onto her was out of character for Craig's Bond. He was so overt
    She then said is it unacceptable for women to fancy attractive men openly in 2021? Is that seen as weak?

    While she was having this deep internal crisis, I was driving, trying to think did they cut the speargun scene from the Jamaica sizzle reel?

    @JohnBarry nailed it in an earlier post of theirs, I came out of NTTD completely deflated instead of elated
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    By the way how beautiful was Matera? I've never heard of this place till they started filming there. Such a beautiful city. One city I'm adding to my bucket list of places to go to!
  • Posts: 526
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Does anyone else think this is a bigger mistake than Die Another Day?

    I’m really quite angry about the way they see the character as disposable. There’s 60 years of love and investment in him. Thrown away for a mediocre melodrama that passes as emotion.

    In a way, yes. I thought DAD was laughably bad, but I didn't come out of the cinema angry when I saw that mess.

    But last night I came out fuming. I guess the Craig films have led me down a path that I thought we were going down. Back to the Dalton era, going back to the Fleming novels.

    And this is because the promise that was shown with CR, and made me think every film that followed would be like this.

    After last night, boy was I wrong yet again. Only this time I feel far more let down.

    This is the ultimate head scratcher: why did they not make all the other films in the tone of CR? Arguably the best Bond film ever, but at the least, one of the very best. Just seemed like they were all over the place. Could it be that CR set the bar so high, it was lightning in a bottle, and they never could get that back? Seems to me like the film quality in each digressed.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Does anyone else think this is a bigger mistake than Die Another Day?

    I’m really quite angry about the way they see the character as disposable. There’s 60 years of love and investment in him. Thrown away for a mediocre melodrama that passes as emotion.

    In a way, yes. I thought DAD was laughably bad, but I didn't come out of the cinema angry when I saw that mess.

    But last night I came out fuming. I guess the Craig films have led me down a path that I thought we were going down. Back to the Dalton era, going back to the Fleming novels.

    And this is because the promise that was shown with CR, and made me think every film that followed would be like this.

    After last night, boy was I wrong yet again. Only this time I feel far more let down.

    This is the ultimate head scratcher: why did they not make all the other films in the tone of CR? Arguably the best Bond film ever, but at the least, one of the very best. Just seemed like they were all over the place. Could it be that CR set the bar so high, it was lightning in a bottle, and they never could get that back? Seems to me like the film quality in each digressed.

    Agreed.
    This is the ultimate head scratcher: why did they not make all the other films in the tone of CR and QoS. The last 3 just don’t fit against the first two!!!!
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,684
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Does anyone else think this is a bigger mistake than Die Another Day?

    I’m really quite angry about the way they see the character as disposable. There’s 60 years of love and investment in him. Thrown away for a mediocre melodrama that passes as emotion.

    In a way, yes. I thought DAD was laughably bad, but I didn't come out of the cinema angry when I saw that mess.

    But last night I came out fuming. I guess the Craig films have led me down a path that I thought we were going down. Back to the Dalton era, going back to the Fleming novels.

    And this is because the promise that was shown with CR, and made me think every film that followed would be like this.

    After last night, boy was I wrong yet again. Only this time I feel far more let down.

    This is the ultimate head scratcher: why did they not make all the other films in the tone of CR? Arguably the best Bond film ever, but at the least, one of the very best. Just seemed like they were all over the place. Could it be that CR set the bar so high, it was lightning in a bottle, and they never could get that back? Seems to me like the film quality in each digressed.

    Agreed.
    This is the ultimate head scratcher: why did they not make all the other films in the tone of CR and QoS. The last 3 just don’t fit against the first two!!!!

    Well, eventually they had make them a bit more uniquely Bondian. CR can get away with its generic action quality because about 20% of the movie is from Fleming. But they couldn't keep going like that.
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