Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Sounds like it’s time to call for a divorce.

    ;)

    Congrats, and bravo on the Bond watch along.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    I’ve probably watched DAF more often than any of the others. I love its slightly sleazy feel, it’s general air of “will this do?” DAF is often the one I will put on if it’s a lazy afternoon and I just want to watch a Bond film.

    I'd have never guessed from your (excellent) username! :D
    Incidentally I think a fair few of the films are tonally a mess. OP is probably the worst IMO (just in terms of tonal consistency, not the film as a whole) but AVTAK and DAD are not far behind.

    Yeah I think you've certainly got a point about Octopussy: it is a bit schizophrenic. Sometimes out-and-out comedy, sometimes extremely tense cold war drama. I like it, but Glen maybe doesn't combine the elements as deftly as Lewis Gilbert did.
    A bit of me wonders if maybe Guy Hamilton had just one good Bond film in him.

    Congrats DarthDimi!
  • Posts: 14,797
    Congratulations @DarthDimi on your marriage!
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,811
    mtm wrote: »
    A bit of me wonders if maybe Guy Hamilton had just one good Bond film in him.

    I've often thought about this. DAF, LALD & TMWTGG are not even close to GF in any respect. Is this the fault of Hamilton? Or can it be blamed on scriptwriters, producers who were getting more and more hostile with each other?
    Perhaps the Bond mania bubble had burst after Connery's departure with YOLT. Too much inconsistency with the series maybe.
    I used to find the Hamilton trilogy of the early 70's the weakest entries, and less watchable. But over time, I've come to appreciate them more, yes they're not always well made, well scripted and sometimes look cheap. But they're a film of their times, quirky, fun and generally very watchable.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Benny wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    A bit of me wonders if maybe Guy Hamilton had just one good Bond film in him.

    I've often thought about this. DAF, LALD & TMWTGG are not even close to GF in any respect. Is this the fault of Hamilton? Or can it be blamed on scriptwriters, producers who were getting more and more hostile with each other?
    Perhaps the Bond mania bubble had burst after Connery's departure with YOLT. Too much inconsistency with the series maybe.
    I used to find the Hamilton trilogy of the early 70's the weakest entries, and less watchable. But over time, I've come to appreciate them more, yes they're not always well made, well scripted and sometimes look cheap. But they're a film of their times, quirky, fun and generally very watchable.

    Hamilton himself has said in an interview that he only returned because he liked the idea of introducing a new Bond. Then Gavin was suddenly out, and Connery was back. He did however get his wish in the next film, LALD. Then, for TMWTGG, he said he returned because he really wanted to return to the Far East.
  • Posts: 1,394
    I don’t think Connery could do no wrong,but I think audiences found DAF a genuinely fun Bond adventure.

    It’s probably my least favourite Connery but il take it over a depressing experience like QOS anyday.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,447
    @CraigMooreOHMSS, @MakeshiftPython, @mtm, @Ludovico,

    Thanks, guys! And yes, I'm trying my best to turn her to our Bond fandom, but I'm afraid that won't happen soon. She liked Dalton and she enjoys the Craigs, but she prefers the looks of Brosnan. ;-) She doesn't understand the perceived handsomeness of Connery... which is a statement quite befitting of this thread. :-)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    I guess it's probably a god thing your wife doesn't fancy Connery too much: no bad comparisons can be drawn! :)
    Has she seen Thunderball though? I think I'd think twice about my membership of the straight club if I'd met him in the Bahamas on that one(!)
  • Congrats on your marriage @DarthDimi !! :) I've yet to do a whole marathon of the films with my wife of 3 and a half years, the Craig films so far plus DN and FRWL. A bit busy with our 2 year old running us around. She is not a fan of "old" films, you know -before the millennium. :)) So it may take some more convincing.
  • Posts: 14,797
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @CraigMooreOHMSS, @MakeshiftPython, @mtm, @Ludovico,

    Thanks, guys! And yes, I'm trying my best to turn her to our Bond fandom, but I'm afraid that won't happen soon. She liked Dalton and she enjoys the Craigs, but she prefers the looks of Brosnan. ;-) She doesn't understand the perceived handsomeness of Connery... which is a statement quite befitting of this thread. :-)

    I failed with my wife. So far the one and only Bond she liked was CR.
  • Posts: 1,595
    I could never agree to that. DAF is just too fun an entry. It's one of those Bond films I can switch on anytime and enjoy every time.

    DAF is miles ahead of NSNA for its sharpness alone. Such a fun movie. If you view it through the lens of a FRWL you'll be disappointed, but view it as the black/dark comedy that it is and you'll see it's a grand time.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Yeah, it definitely can’t be viewed in the same light as a lot of the 60s films because it is more tailored to the sleazy attitude of Las Vegas.

    The only thing that really disappoints is the climax. If that had matched up with what the poster promised, it might have bumped up to an 8/10 for me.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    edited July 2021 Posts: 1,006
    I think you nailed it with “view it as the black/dark comedy that it is”…

    Not exactly my preferred style of spy adventure, and Vegas is such a bore.

    DAF is dead last for me.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2021 Posts: 5,921
    Vegas (back then...not now) is a great setting for a Bond film. They just didn't use it properly (hint: more gambling, more Plenty although perhaps a better actress, less moon buggy). It's like they just jettisoned the story after Amsterdam.

    And they really should have used Fleming's diamonds in golf balls at some point.
  • Posts: 3
    Ok so I’ve been on a binge for the past few weeks. Started with Dr no and just finishing die another day. The Craig movies are next.

    Here is what I’ve concluded:
    - after waving the Connery banner my whole life, and then questioning my beliefs after Dalton came along, I have realized that Brosnan is the best. Something about him; he has the perfect blend of cruelty, ruthlessness, charm and confidence. He commands my attention in every scene. He is Bond.
    - I like DAD and don’t get the hate. Ok an invisible car, so what? I bet it’s not that far off. They way Q (R?) explained it makes sense in theory at least. Surfing a tidal wave? Ok it looks silly but only lasts a minute or two.
    - Roger was better than I remembered and I think TSWLM is his best. I even liked AVTAK. But JW Pepper sucks ass! 😂
    - DAF was worse than I remembered. I mean really bad. I dare say the worst, but I still need to rewatch the Craig films and I recall not liking QOS.

    Cheers!
    Khan. Kamal Khan
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    kamal_khan wrote: »
    Ok so I’ve been on a binge for the past few weeks. Started with Dr no and just finishing die another day. The Craig movies are next.

    Here is what I’ve concluded:
    - after waving the Connery banner my whole life, and then questioning my beliefs after Dalton came along, I have realized that Brosnan is the best. Something about him; he has the perfect blend of cruelty, ruthlessness, charm and confidence. He commands my attention in every scene. He is Bond.
    - I like DAD and don’t get the hate. Ok an invisible car, so what? I bet it’s not that far off. They way Q (R?) explained it makes sense in theory at least. Surfing a tidal wave? Ok it looks silly but only lasts a minute or two.
    - Roger was better than I remembered and I think TSWLM is his best. I even liked AVTAK. But JW Pepper sucks ass! 😂
    - DAF was worse than I remembered. I mean really bad. I dare say the worst, but I still need to rewatch the Craig films and I recall not liking QOS.

    Cheers!
    Khan. Kamal Khan

    I think that's totally fair enough. I personally wouldn't say Brosnan is the best, but he is a really good film star and works extremely well in these movies.

    Let us know your reaction to the Craigs!
  • Posts: 1,394
    I love the moon buggy chase in DAF.Especially because John Barry scores it like something out of a cartoon.
  • Posts: 1,879
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I love the moon buggy chase in DAF.Especially because John Barry scores it like something out of a cartoon.

    The man was just gifted when it came to matching the music to the scene, whether it's a country or underwater or military-related or a chase in a moon buggy. It's why so many of today's Bond scores are disappointing because he set such a high standard and these don't come close.
  • Posts: 631
    BT3366 wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I love the moon buggy chase in DAF.Especially because John Barry scores it like something out of a cartoon.

    The man was just gifted when it came to matching the music to the scene, whether it's a country or underwater or military-related or a chase in a moon buggy. It's why so many of today's Bond scores are disappointing because he set such a high standard and these don't come close.

    I agree. There are moments in the Craig films which IMO are just crying out for DAF’s Wint and Kidd riff or something like it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,727
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I love the moon buggy chase in DAF.Especially because John Barry scores it like something out of a cartoon.

    I like the bit where Connery laughs to himself at the absurdity of the moon buggy going forward and responding to his pressing of the buttons. He definitely has fun with the Bond role in this film as that's what the script requires. I also disagree with those who say Connery looks tired and bored in this film. And you're quite right, there is a kind of Loony Tunes vibe throughout the whole film. The mentions of Acme and Bambi and Thumper merely reinforce this cartoonish motif in the film.
  • edited August 2021 Posts: 1,595
    I think you know what sort of film DAF is by the way Connery holds his hands/arms up when Blofeld has his men search him during the PTS. It is so perfect.

    Also Connery is not bored whatsoever. YOLT vs. this performance is night and day.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    I do love that bit.

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,447
    Connery reminds me of Kevin Spacey here.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Spacey was supposedly handsy.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,377
    I think you know what sort of film DAF is by the way Connery holds his hands/arms up when Blofeld has his men search him during the PTS. It is so perfect.

    Also Connery is not bored whatsoever. YOLT vs. this performance is night and day.

    Not to mention being able to shag Jill and Lana off set, playing golf and hanging out in Vegas. I can always look at it as a one off film. He doesn't even really play James Bond in much of it.
  • Posts: 1,545
    As for Connery "playing James Bond in much of it", didn't he, though ? He was playing Bond in the lighter, more humorous style which picked up in YOLT, took a break for OHMSS, resumed in full for DAF and carried on full-bore through Moore's films. They'd done a certain style for a while, and "Bond-mania" had passed, so there was plenty of reason to change up the style.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2021 Posts: 5,921
    I wish he had played DAF more like TB, but that's kind of like wishing the genie back into the bottle.

    I think the "spy craze" and the many imitators and parodies (Max Helm, etc.) pushed Eon in this direction. From a box office standpoint, they were afraid to do something as downbeat as OHMSS (even as The Godfather, The Exorcist et al were all the rage), so more humorous and ironic was the path they chose.

    Controversial opinion?: the first big drop in title song quality was All Time High. The second was Another Way To Die.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    If Connery had just played it straight like in TB he would have felt out of place with the tone of DAF.
  • Posts: 1,545
    Perhaps the producers knew that someday fans would refer to the films by the Initials -- and for DAF they figured it should be "daf-fy" ? No...wow, I really reached on that one. Might have sprained something.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2021 Posts: 17,727
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps the producers knew that someday fans would refer to the films by the Initials -- and for DAF they figured it should be "daf-fy" ? No...wow, I really reached on that one. Might have sprained something.

    I think I remember a review or commentator in a book on the Bond films saying something like that. DAFT is what they'd call it where I'm from. Plus, didn't Bond and Felix Leiter have a discussion in one of the Fleming novels about how the word is "daffy" in the US? It might even have been in DAF...
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