Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 3,875
    DAF and MR are top 10 for me. MR is my favorite Moore film and DAF is my second favorite Connery film only to FRWL
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,608
    I could never agree to that. DAF is just too fun an entry. It's one of those Bond films I can switch on anytime and enjoy every time.

    It's hard for me to dismiss DAF because it has Connery and Barry.

    TMWTGG and AVTAK rank a bit lower but they still have Barry and some decent Moore moments.

    DAD has none of these advantages.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 3,875
    echo wrote: »
    I could never agree to that. DAF is just too fun an entry. It's one of those Bond films I can switch on anytime and enjoy every time.

    It's hard for me to dismiss DAF because it has Connery and Barry.

    TMWTGG and AVTAK rank a bit lower but they still have Barry and some decent Moore moments.

    DAD has none of these advantages.

    But the former movies don't have a giant solar laser melting an ice hotel
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited July 2021 Posts: 6,688
    echo wrote: »
    I could never agree to that. DAF is just too fun an entry. It's one of those Bond films I can switch on anytime and enjoy every time.

    It's hard for me to dismiss DAF because it has Connery and Barry.

    These are of two of the reasons why it's so disappointing for me, conversely. It has all the elements you could need and some of them (mainly Barry's score) work really well, but overall it's rubbish. I found it a real slog the last time I watched it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,179
    echo wrote: »
    I could never agree to that. DAF is just too fun an entry. It's one of those Bond films I can switch on anytime and enjoy every time.

    It's hard for me to dismiss DAF because it has Connery and Barry.

    TMWTGG and AVTAK rank a bit lower but they still have Barry and some decent Moore moments.

    See, for me there's just so much more to enjoy in AVTAK. DAF looks and feels grotty, and although it does have plenty of excellent lines it just sorts of flops along, looking horrible. I don't think it even has any decent set pieces at all (that buggy chase is possibly the low point: where absolutely nothing happens: they just drive around) and then it all culminates in maybe the most depressing finale of them on that ugly oil rig.
    The score is lovely.
    AVTAK is kind of my comfort food when it comes to Bond: I pretty much love it unconditionally and even the cheesy bits I find totally charming. DAF just doesn't do the same, although it's not the worst film ever made.
  • Posts: 1,697
    mtm wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I could never agree to that. DAF is just too fun an entry. It's one of those Bond films I can switch on anytime and enjoy every time.

    It's hard for me to dismiss DAF because it has Connery and Barry.

    TMWTGG and AVTAK rank a bit lower but they still have Barry and some decent Moore moments.

    See, for me there's just so much more to enjoy in AVTAK. DAF looks and feels grotty, and although it does have plenty of excellent lines it just sorts of flops along, looking horrible. I don't think it even has any decent set pieces at all (that buggy chase is possibly the low point: where absolutely nothing happens: they just drive around) and then it all culminates in maybe the most depressing finale of them on that ugly oil rig.
    The score is lovely.
    AVTAK is kind of my comfort food when it comes to Bond: I pretty much love it unconditionally and even the cheesy bits I find totally charming. DAF just doesn't do the same, although it's not the worst film ever made.

    I have the complete opposite view. Up front, DAF was the first Bond film I saw in a cinema when it was released, so there's always going to be that. But I just have a good time with it still. The elevator fight alone is vintage Bond and better than anything I can think of in the entirety of AVTAK.

    On the flip side, I saw AVTAK opening weekend and couldn't have been more disappointed. I've always personally found when Bond arrives in San Francisco up until the action moves to the mine it's one of the most boring stretches in any Bond film. Less than stellar Connery is more appealing than less than stellar Moore for me. And I may be one of the only people who finds Barry's AVTAK score possibly his weakest. Love the title song and some of the slower versions of it but overall it's not a fun standalone listening experience and I rarely listen to that score.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,179
    See, I don't get the lift fight. I don't find it all that interesting or amazing.

    I wouldn't disagree about the AVTAK score: DAF is much better on that front. But it's still John Barry so miles above most movies.
  • Posts: 13,420
    Okay it seems that since DAF is very much loved, being critical about it might be controversial. So here's my controversial opinion:
    DAF has two reasons for its popularity: 1)Sean Connery was perceived then as the one and only Bond, and 2)Sean Connery could do no wrong, whatever approach or tone.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Alpha Quadrant
    Posts: 5,523
    I always roll my eyes when I read someone say that Connery looked bored in DAF. Like, how? He’s obviously not playing it the same as he did in his early films, but he’s clearly engaging with the more comical tone of the film that the filmmakers decided on and was by all accounts very professional as an on set collaborator. More so than he was in YOLT.

    I think people make that assumption based on the weight he gained, as if he couldn’t be arsed to lose it. But he only got the role on short notice by a few weeks prior to filming, and wasn’t going to be able to go back to his early 1960s physique so swiftly, especially since he was 40.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,179
    Oh yeah, for all the faults of the films, Connery in DAF and NSNA is properly switched on.
  • edited July 2021 Posts: 614
    I’ve probably watched DAF more often than any of the others. I love its slightly sleazy feel, it’s general air of “will this do?” DAF is often the one I will put on if it’s a lazy afternoon and I just want to watch a Bond film.

    Incidentally I think a fair few of the films are tonally a mess. OP is probably the worst IMO (just in terms of tonal consistency, not the film as a whole) but AVTAK and DAD are not far behind.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 20,246
    When my wife and I -- we got married three weeks ago ;-) -- were still dating, she asked me once what I wanted for my birthday. I told her I wanted to watch all the Bonds with her, knowing she'd only seen SF. She agreed and I was very happy about that because introducing a film to a "rooky" is the closest thing to going in fresh again yourself.

    DAF was the first of three films I 'prepared' her for. (We skipped CR67 and NSNA for obvious reasons.) The other two are TMWTGG and MR. Knowing the kind of stuff that would pose a challenge for her, DAF got me nervous. Let's just say that early 1970's America, the style, the look, the lingo... is something she's entirely unfamiliar with. I tried to sit her down for Dirty Harry once and she zoned out after about 10 minutes. And then there's Tiffany, the kind of dumb, floozy portrayal of women that she just absolutely resents.

    Well, she looked at me funny when the "Cai--Cai--Cairo" dude's lips didn't move, when a mud bath had suddenly become lethal, when everybody is so geriatrically slow to respond to threads (I mean, Fake Blofeld just basically lets Bond do what he wants), ... And things went down from there. She sighed at the scorpion bite scene, gave a loud "Oh, come oooon!" with the circus scenes, and she wanted it all to just stop as soon as the oil rig is shown.

    But her most effective comment of all, something that's always stuck with me, is that DAF looks like an episode from a TV series. Since DN, everything had looked so wide, so cinematic, so rich in beautiful vistas. Even indoor scenes had almost always been filmed with relatively wide angles. But DAF looks small, like something filmed in your neighbors' house. And I agree with her. Apart from Blofeld's penthouse or where Whyte is being kept, too many places feel like quickly put together sets for the next episode of Dallas.

    So my wife still considers DAF the very worst of the bunch. She had slightly less of a problem with TMWTGG (although she did overall very much struggle with the 'Hamilton trilogy' post OHMSS) but absolutely rejected MR as a Bond film, though not as much as DAF. That was the low point in the series for her. I have since done my best to explain that DAF is not to be viewed through the same goggles as the likes of FRWL, OHMSS, CR or LTK. I have also confessed to her that its many flaws and imperfections are exactly why I like DAF, like cheap, canned food that spreads strong odours and looks like it will poison you, but you still want some every once in a while.

    I guess it takes a certain type of Bond fan, enough background knowledge and context, and a ton of our Community discussions to turn the silliest and arguably cheapest looking of the Bonds into an outrageous yet deliciously enjoyable Bond film.

    And at least our relationship did survive the experience. ;-)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,688
    First of all @DarthDimi - congratulations on your nuptials. I'm over the moon for yourself and the now Mrs. Dimi.

    Secondly, it seems like you made a great choice as her opinions on DAF mirror my own. ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Alpha Quadrant
    Posts: 5,523
    Sounds like it’s time to call for a divorce.

    ;)

    Congrats, and bravo on the Bond watch along.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,179
    I’ve probably watched DAF more often than any of the others. I love its slightly sleazy feel, it’s general air of “will this do?” DAF is often the one I will put on if it’s a lazy afternoon and I just want to watch a Bond film.

    I'd have never guessed from your (excellent) username! :D
    Incidentally I think a fair few of the films are tonally a mess. OP is probably the worst IMO (just in terms of tonal consistency, not the film as a whole) but AVTAK and DAD are not far behind.

    Yeah I think you've certainly got a point about Octopussy: it is a bit schizophrenic. Sometimes out-and-out comedy, sometimes extremely tense cold war drama. I like it, but Glen maybe doesn't combine the elements as deftly as Lewis Gilbert did.
    A bit of me wonders if maybe Guy Hamilton had just one good Bond film in him.

    Congrats DarthDimi!
  • Posts: 13,420
    Congratulations @DarthDimi on your marriage!
  • BennyBenny Classified Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 12,200
    mtm wrote: »
    A bit of me wonders if maybe Guy Hamilton had just one good Bond film in him.

    I've often thought about this. DAF, LALD & TMWTGG are not even close to GF in any respect. Is this the fault of Hamilton? Or can it be blamed on scriptwriters, producers who were getting more and more hostile with each other?
    Perhaps the Bond mania bubble had burst after Connery's departure with YOLT. Too much inconsistency with the series maybe.
    I used to find the Hamilton trilogy of the early 70's the weakest entries, and less watchable. But over time, I've come to appreciate them more, yes they're not always well made, well scripted and sometimes look cheap. But they're a film of their times, quirky, fun and generally very watchable.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,570
    Benny wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    A bit of me wonders if maybe Guy Hamilton had just one good Bond film in him.

    I've often thought about this. DAF, LALD & TMWTGG are not even close to GF in any respect. Is this the fault of Hamilton? Or can it be blamed on scriptwriters, producers who were getting more and more hostile with each other?
    Perhaps the Bond mania bubble had burst after Connery's departure with YOLT. Too much inconsistency with the series maybe.
    I used to find the Hamilton trilogy of the early 70's the weakest entries, and less watchable. But over time, I've come to appreciate them more, yes they're not always well made, well scripted and sometimes look cheap. But they're a film of their times, quirky, fun and generally very watchable.

    Hamilton himself has said in an interview that he only returned because he liked the idea of introducing a new Bond. Then Gavin was suddenly out, and Connery was back. He did however get his wish in the next film, LALD. Then, for TMWTGG, he said he returned because he really wanted to return to the Far East.
  • Posts: 990
    I don’t think Connery could do no wrong,but I think audiences found DAF a genuinely fun Bond adventure.

    It’s probably my least favourite Connery but il take it over a depressing experience like QOS anyday.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 20,246
    @CraigMooreOHMSS, @MakeshiftPython, @mtm, @Ludovico,

    Thanks, guys! And yes, I'm trying my best to turn her to our Bond fandom, but I'm afraid that won't happen soon. She liked Dalton and she enjoys the Craigs, but she prefers the looks of Brosnan. ;-) She doesn't understand the perceived handsomeness of Connery... which is a statement quite befitting of this thread. :-)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,179
    I guess it's probably a god thing your wife doesn't fancy Connery too much: no bad comparisons can be drawn! :)
    Has she seen Thunderball though? I think I'd think twice about my membership of the straight club if I'd met him in the Bahamas on that one(!)
  • Congrats on your marriage @DarthDimi !! :) I've yet to do a whole marathon of the films with my wife of 3 and a half years, the Craig films so far plus DN and FRWL. A bit busy with our 2 year old running us around. She is not a fan of "old" films, you know -before the millennium. :)) So it may take some more convincing.
  • Posts: 13,420
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @CraigMooreOHMSS, @MakeshiftPython, @mtm, @Ludovico,

    Thanks, guys! And yes, I'm trying my best to turn her to our Bond fandom, but I'm afraid that won't happen soon. She liked Dalton and she enjoys the Craigs, but she prefers the looks of Brosnan. ;-) She doesn't understand the perceived handsomeness of Connery... which is a statement quite befitting of this thread. :-)

    I failed with my wife. So far the one and only Bond she liked was CR.
  • Posts: 1,595
    I could never agree to that. DAF is just too fun an entry. It's one of those Bond films I can switch on anytime and enjoy every time.

    DAF is miles ahead of NSNA for its sharpness alone. Such a fun movie. If you view it through the lens of a FRWL you'll be disappointed, but view it as the black/dark comedy that it is and you'll see it's a grand time.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Alpha Quadrant
    Posts: 5,523
    Yeah, it definitely can’t be viewed in the same light as a lot of the 60s films because it is more tailored to the sleazy attitude of Las Vegas.

    The only thing that really disappoints is the climax. If that had matched up with what the poster promised, it might have bumped up to an 8/10 for me.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    edited July 2021 Posts: 482
    I think you nailed it with “view it as the black/dark comedy that it is”…

    Not exactly my preferred style of spy adventure, and Vegas is such a bore.

    DAF is dead last for me.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2021 Posts: 4,608
    Vegas (back then...not now) is a great setting for a Bond film. They just didn't use it properly (hint: more gambling, more Plenty although perhaps a better actress, less moon buggy). It's like they just jettisoned the story after Amsterdam.

    And they really should have used Fleming's diamonds in golf balls at some point.
  • Posts: 3
    Ok so I’ve been on a binge for the past few weeks. Started with Dr no and just finishing die another day. The Craig movies are next.

    Here is what I’ve concluded:
    - after waving the Connery banner my whole life, and then questioning my beliefs after Dalton came along, I have realized that Brosnan is the best. Something about him; he has the perfect blend of cruelty, ruthlessness, charm and confidence. He commands my attention in every scene. He is Bond.
    - I like DAD and don’t get the hate. Ok an invisible car, so what? I bet it’s not that far off. They way Q (R?) explained it makes sense in theory at least. Surfing a tidal wave? Ok it looks silly but only lasts a minute or two.
    - Roger was better than I remembered and I think TSWLM is his best. I even liked AVTAK. But JW Pepper sucks ass! 😂
    - DAF was worse than I remembered. I mean really bad. I dare say the worst, but I still need to rewatch the Craig films and I recall not liking QOS.

    Cheers!
    Khan. Kamal Khan
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,179
    kamal_khan wrote: »
    Ok so I’ve been on a binge for the past few weeks. Started with Dr no and just finishing die another day. The Craig movies are next.

    Here is what I’ve concluded:
    - after waving the Connery banner my whole life, and then questioning my beliefs after Dalton came along, I have realized that Brosnan is the best. Something about him; he has the perfect blend of cruelty, ruthlessness, charm and confidence. He commands my attention in every scene. He is Bond.
    - I like DAD and don’t get the hate. Ok an invisible car, so what? I bet it’s not that far off. They way Q (R?) explained it makes sense in theory at least. Surfing a tidal wave? Ok it looks silly but only lasts a minute or two.
    - Roger was better than I remembered and I think TSWLM is his best. I even liked AVTAK. But JW Pepper sucks ass! 😂
    - DAF was worse than I remembered. I mean really bad. I dare say the worst, but I still need to rewatch the Craig films and I recall not liking QOS.

    Cheers!
    Khan. Kamal Khan

    I think that's totally fair enough. I personally wouldn't say Brosnan is the best, but he is a really good film star and works extremely well in these movies.

    Let us know your reaction to the Craigs!
  • Posts: 990
    I love the moon buggy chase in DAF.Especially because John Barry scores it like something out of a cartoon.
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