Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,947
    The age gap in that film doesn't bother me too much, because I think Moore looks great. I think the main issue is simply that the two don't have too much chemistry. There is a connection there, but it usually feels platonic.

    +1 More like a platonic alliance between Simon Templar and one of his female guest stars. Add to that a The Saint main villain(which indeed Julian Glover played 13 years earlier) and a relatively tame climax(compared not only to the 3 spectacular Lewis Gilbert ones but also to the likes of TB's underwater battle and OHMSS's Piz Gloria final assault) has made the 1981 Bond film feel more like an expensive episode of Moore's classic 1962-1969 TV series rather than one of my favorite Bond films. So I suppose that would be my controversial opinion.

    tbh I can't find anything negative in that description.
  • Posts: 1,394
    The age gap in that film doesn't bother me too much, because I think Moore looks great. I think the main issue is simply that the two don't have too much chemistry. There is a connection there, but it usually feels platonic.

    +1 More like a platonic alliance between Simon Templar and one of his female guest stars. Add to that a The Saint main villain(which indeed Julian Glover played 13 years earlier) and a relatively tame climax(compared not only to the 3 spectacular Lewis Gilbert ones but also to the likes of TB's underwater battle and OHMSS's Piz Gloria final assault) has made the 1981 Bond film feel more like an expensive episode of Moore's classic 1962-1969 TV series rather than one of my favorite Bond films. So I suppose that would be my controversial opinion.

    I think the tame climax was a deliberate attempt to scale back the series after the excesses of the last few entries in the series.The whole film is really a back to basics approach similar to what happened later with CR after the outlandishness of DAD.

    As for having a '' platonic alliance '' with a female guest star,well this was Bond,not Simon Templar! Said it before,but il say it again,lots of women find older men quite attractive rather than the other way round.Its just a fact.Just look at 66 year old Dennis Quaid,he recently got married to a lady nearly FORTY years younger than him! To that i say MY MAN!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    As for having a '' platonic alliance '' with a female guest star,well this was Bond,not Simon Templar! Said it before,but il say it again,lots of women find older men quite attractive rather than the other way round.Its just a fact.Just look at 66 year old Dennis Quaid,he recently got married to a lady nearly FORTY years younger than him! To that i say MY MAN!

    Yes, that's all well and good - but many people don't think the film really conveys that they are romantically invested in each other very well, regardless of their age.
  • Posts: 1,394
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    As for having a '' platonic alliance '' with a female guest star,well this was Bond,not Simon Templar! Said it before,but il say it again,lots of women find older men quite attractive rather than the other way round.Its just a fact.Just look at 66 year old Dennis Quaid,he recently got married to a lady nearly FORTY years younger than him! To that i say MY MAN!

    Yes, that's all well and good - but many people don't think the film really conveys that they are romantically invested in each other very well, regardless of their age.

    It seemed to me that they started getting close after the bike attack on Melina in St.Moritz.Also Melina looks quite jealous when she sees Bond leaving the restaurant with Countess Lisl.
  • Posts: 1,637
    "Laz is/always has been an egocentric, self-centered"
    Many are like that in Hwood
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,947
    Tracy wrote: »
    "Laz is/always has been an egocentric, self-centered"
    Many are like that in Hwood

    But not many with the panache and fun of Lazenby. I loved that 'Becoming Bond' biopic about him. It explains a lot about him and why he behaved as he did.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    Tracy wrote: »
    "Laz is/always has been an egocentric, self-centered"
    Many are like that in Hwood

    But not many with the panache and fun of Lazenby. I loved that 'Becoming Bond' biopic about him. It explains a lot about him and why he behaved as he did.

    Never met him of course, but always thought he came across as a very likeable fellow.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    The difference with Lazenby is that he didn’t earn it and assumed he was already of the status of a big movie star, enough that he could leave Bond and prosper into his own big career. Predictably, that fell flat on its face.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I'm sure this may not be controversial, but Licence To Kill is a really, bloody good film.

    Its not, however, a good Bond film.

    Please share more of your thoughts on this. I'm always interested in hearing different ideas and LTK is a really polarizing film.

    @BT3366 apologies for the late reply.

    LTK is a cracking film. Its well paced, plotted and acted. The gritty vibe is superb, too.

    The reasons I don't find it quintessential Bond; Simply, it feels too American. A touch too dark, it has a decidedly 'made for TV' look about it, and was too in to the Miami Vice vibe.

    My wife and I watched it a couple of weeks ago, the first time I have seen it for a few years. She is by no means a big Bond fan, but she remarked that it "feels like a Die Hard film with Timothy Dalton instead of Bruce Willis". I have to agree with that.

    Its a better film than probably 10 of the other 007 movies at least, but it isn't quintessential Bond, for me.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    My controversial opinion on FYEO is that Bonds relationship with Melina isnt uncomfortable at all and think its quite romantic.Quite a bit of age difference between the two but even though age was beginning to catch up to Rog,he was still quite a handsome dude and dont think many women would say no.

    His scenes with Bibi arnt uncomfortable either as Bond actually rejects her advances ( Proving that he actually DOES have standards! )

    Agree. I do also agree with another poster, that the somewhat tame finale hurts it a little, but this was a back to basics Bond film, which, quite frankly, Moore needed. It would have been a terrible shame for him to not have had at least one 'Fleming-esque' film on his resume.

    FYEO is very high up the food chain for me. A slightly more exciting climax, and a better score probably would have pushed it into the top 5 or 6 Bond films, for me.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,947
    The difference with Lazenby is that he didn’t earn it and assumed he was already of the status of a big movie star, enough that he could leave Bond and prosper into his own big career. Predictably, that fell flat on its face.
    I think that's very easy to say with hindsight. It wasn't his idea to quit, but his agents'. Of course he followed through on it but he lived in circles where Bond stood for everything bad about beeing British. It was the old guard. Just as much as was beeing said before GE, but by then they should've known better. I don't think you can blame the guy for not beeing able to foresee the future
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Tying in to the conversation re OHMSS and FYEO, It's interesting to think what could have happened had Sir Rog been cast in OHMSS. He would have also been in DAF, a film that would have suited him better than Connery. Then ideally he could have finished with FYEO, tying his era together beautifully with his final film finishing what he started re Tracy and Blofeld.

    He could have still had his 7 films, and a pleasant offshoot would have been an extra two for Dalton...
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    It would have suited Tim, for sure, but Moore needed a grounded film after Moonraker. Plus it messes with my dream timeline!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,050
    I’m really surprised that Spectre didn’t go through bringing back Irma Bunt. She could have helped the movie better. They’d probably get a big name actress for her.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2020 Posts: 5,921
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    It would have suited Tim, for sure, but Moore needed a grounded film after Moonraker. Plus it messes with my dream timeline!

    We wouldn't get OP any earlier than 1983 because it's inspired by Raiders of the Lost Ark. We might have gotten a very different OP with Dalton--maybe not. Tonally OP and TLD seem to go together...

    ...as do FYEO, AVTAK, and LTK.
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    This is an ideal timeline @echo, get your facts and logic out of my face [-(
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    echo wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    It would have suited Tim, for sure, but Moore needed a grounded film after Moonraker. Plus it messes with my dream timeline!

    We wouldn't get OP any earlier than 1983 because it's inspired by Raiders of the Lost Ark. We might have gotten a very different OP with Dalton--maybe not. Tonally OP and TLD seem to go together...

    ...as do FYEO, AVTAK, and LTK.

    How is OP inspired by Raiders?
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,656
    echo wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    It would have suited Tim, for sure, but Moore needed a grounded film after Moonraker. Plus it messes with my dream timeline!

    We wouldn't get OP any earlier than 1983 because it's inspired by Raiders of the Lost Ark. We might have gotten a very different OP with Dalton--maybe not. Tonally OP and TLD seem to go together...

    ...as do FYEO, AVTAK, and LTK.

    How is OP inspired by Raiders?
    I'm pretty sure he's thinking of "Temple of Doom", sporting some of the same Indian scenery...which however came out the year after OP.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Raiders definitely had an influence on OP. Ironically, OP preceded the next Indy film that would feature India and gross out food gags.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,656
    Don't anybody get me wrong...I think that Raiders is one of the best adventure movies ever, and Temple of Doom is a close second in the Raiders hierarchy, and Octopussy is a rather inferior Bond film, possibly the worst of the Roger Moore era (ok, AVTAK is still maintaining a fight about that honour). But I see less influence of Raiders on OP than I see of OP on Temple, if you know what I mean. But then, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, since it's all legitimate and no plagiarism.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    To be clear, I’m not criticizing OP for taking elements from Raiders and putting it in their film. It’s just a fact. The market sequence alone was clearly a riff from Raiders. It’s okay to acknowledge these things, just as it’s okay to say that MR was clearly influenced by Star Wars. And I LOVE MR. Let’s keep it real.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    Ever since the early 70's I can't think of hardly any Bond film that hasn't been influenced by other popular films/genres.

    Nothing wrong with that, if you want to stay in the game for more than 50 years you must adapt to survive.

    TSWLM, FYEO, TLD and GE are the ones I would say have been influenced more by their predecessors than by other films.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Ever since the early 70's I can't think of hardly any Bond film that hasn't been influenced by other popular films/genres.

    Nothing wrong with that, if you want to stay in the game for more than 50 years you must adapt to survive.

    TSWLM, FYEO, TLD and GE are the ones I would say have been influenced more by their predecessors than by other films.

    That's a fair shout.
  • Bond has been doing this forever, and I really don't see it as a problem.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 2,035
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I’m really surprised that Spectre didn’t go through bringing back Irma Bunt. She could have helped the movie better. They’d probably get a big name actress for her.

    She was in the shooting script dated October 2014, so very nearly made it. From memory she was just Bunt in name only really, the character didnt do much.

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    +1. I definitely like the idea of Tim Dalton's Bond having Carole Bouquet's Melina as his leading lady. However with Connery making NSNA the same year I doubt EON would've taken a chance on a new Bond actor in 1982-1983. Hence, James Brolin didn't get the role(thankfully) and Sir Rog enlisted for another turn.
    echo wrote: »
    Tonally OP and TLD seem to go together...

    Agreed. My top 2 1980s Bond films. Both feature John Barry scores, both feature 2 of Bond's most believable romances with his primary leading lady, both Cold War themed, both involve villainous plots where a criminal who lives in an exotic, palatial home teams up with a renegade Soviet general who is at odds with another Soviet general.

  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208

    Agreed. My top 2 1980s Bond films. Both feature John Barry scores, both feature 2 of Bond's most believable romances with his primary leading lady, both Cold War themed, both involve villainous plots where a criminal who lives in an exotic, palatial home teams up with a renegade Soviet general who is at odds with another Soviet general.

    I also love both those films. They share a rollicking sense of adventure (the aforementioned Indiana Jones influence) and I’ve come up with a few other similarities, although they’re much more tenuous than yours. Both feature the villains involved in smuggling operations; both feature famous antiques as plot points ( Fabergé egg and Stradivarius cello); both feature an mi6 /00 colleague of Bond being assassinated near the start of the movie to kick off the plot; Bond goes to a circus in one of the films and a fun fair in the other; both showcase airplane set pieces with spectacular airborne stunt work.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758

    Agreed. My top 2 1980s Bond films. Both feature John Barry scores, both feature 2 of Bond's most believable romances with his primary leading lady, both Cold War themed, both involve villainous plots where a criminal who lives in an exotic, palatial home teams up with a renegade Soviet general who is at odds with another Soviet general.

    I also love both those films. They share a rollicking sense of adventure (the aforementioned Indiana Jones influence) and I’ve come up with a few other similarities, although they’re much more tenuous than yours. Both feature the villains involved in smuggling operations; both feature famous antiques as plot points ( Fabergé egg and Stradivarius cello); both feature an mi6 /00 colleague of Bond being assassinated near the start of the movie to kick off the plot; Bond goes to a circus in one of the films and a fun fair in the other; both showcase airplane set pieces with spectacular airborne stunt work.

    Both feature Bond driving a gorgeous car while being chased by local police forces. I also think they are the only two Bond films where we can see him literally crossing the Iron Curtain: West Germany - East Germany and the other way around in OP, Czechoslovakia - Austria twice in TLD. Now that I think if it, both are partly set in a former Eastern Bloc country that today doesn't exist anymore.
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