Coronavirus Discussion

1151618202193

Comments

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Still waiting for the Jena Malone Batwoman movie that's never going to be made.Moderator
    Posts: 11,859
  • Posts: 36
    Hey everyone,
    I just wanted to send you my support from Australia regarding this whole catastrophe. We are a little ways behind the rest of the world when it comes to the severity of this whole thing but we are unfortunately fast catching up and it is already pretty scary. I'm a teacher and we are in a battle with the government at this moment to get the schools shut down to follow suit with the 70+ countries that already did so. I hope you, your friends and all your loved ones are safe and that you are finding your way through this nightmare of unemployment, sickness and toilet paper shortages.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 6,844
    Perhaps one more thing I should've added to my previous post, as some people have been pointing out that 'lockdown doesn't work, see Italy/Spain'.

    1. A lockdown starts to work directly, but the results are only visible after the incubation time of 14 days has passed. Up until that time the infection rate is still the one from the days previous.
    2. A lockdown only works, or a stay at home order, or any other social distancing method, if people stick to it and take it serious. As in all nations the herd's been very slow to pick up. From crowded tube trains in London after the lockdown, to Florida beaches full of drunk teenagers at Spring break, those are the people who keep on spreading the desease.
    3. Cultural differences: both in Spain and Italy people greet eachother warmly, with hugs and kisses. Also, families often live (close) together, even with grandparents in the same house. One kid bringing the virus in can kill the grandparents in the same household.
    4. Political culture. In Southern Europe a culture of ignoring the political class (seen as corrupt) has made it very difficult to enforce the lockdowns. In Italy alone at least 200.000 people have been fined for breaking the lockdown rules.

    Just some points to consider when stating FACTS. Especially the ones written in capital letters.

    I wish you all the best in these hard times.

  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    The big problem is even after complete lockdown people still have to go out to buy groceries and stuffs. One state(Chandigarh) in India here have started home delivery for groceries and day to day items.
    https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/state-governments-start-home-delivery-of-milk-fruits-vegetables-and-groceries/articleshow/74822477.cms

    Hopefully more state will follow this to keep safe distancing.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 457
    People follow the lockdown requirements like they do with non-political commentary here. For whatever reason it seems to be human nature to defy things until consequences adversely affect us in a direct way.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2020 Posts: 19,415
    It really is very simple:

    "We're helpless until there's a cure!"

    Wrong.

    Technically, we don't need a cure if close contact between people (including touching surfaces like the buttons of an ATM or the keyboard of a public computer) is reduced to zero. It may look to some like nature is trying to doom us all, but it's left us a perfectly easy way out: stay home!

    Alas, matters are complicated through
    • public disobedience ("I wanna hang out with my friends");
    • our necessary visits to supermarkets and such;
    • the necessity of close contact when taking care of those who can't help themselves anymore;
    • the fact of many people living in poverty, without any social security or access to good medical care.

    This is not easy. There are always those who cannot escape infection, no matter how hard they try. But if those of us who can afford to stay home literally do so, even the younger ones who--supposedly--are less likely to die from Corona, we can keep the number of available hospital beds sufficient for those who need them.

    It saddens me to see that kids had "Corona parties" in my country, to "celebrate" the good life one more time right before our national "pub lockdown". Some of those have now been reported as fighting for their lives in IC. What's even worse, because they are young and have a higher likeliness of survival than, say, an 80-year old, very soon the latter may not even be hospitalized anymore to save space for the former. If it were your granddad or grandma being refused access to the IC because of 18-year olds you then learn pretty much begged to be infected through their endless stupidity, how would that feel?
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Hamburg, near the Atlantic Hotel
    Posts: 5,993
    I must admit that my impression is different now: A definite majority of people seem to comply with the rules. But then, it is easy to keep "social distance" of two meters or so when there are no more than maybe 25 per cent of the usual crowd around. At any rate, I find people are getting more disciplined and less egotistical and panicky than quite a few were initially. Just an hour ago, I even came across a stocked-up shelf of TP and other hygiene papers, and managed to buy a few sachets of dry yeast and a kilo of basmati rice, unthinkable just a week ago.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 19,415
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I must admit that my impression is different now: A definite majority of people seem to comply with the rules. But then, it is easy to keep "social distance" of two meters or so when there are no more than maybe 25 per cent of the usual crowd around. At any rate, I find people are getting more disciplined and less egotistical and panicky than quite a few were initially. Just an hour ago, I even came across a stocked-up shelf of TP and other hygiene papers, and managed to buy a few sachets of dry yeast and a kilo of basmati rice, unthinkable just a week ago.

    That's very good news, sir.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2020 Posts: 15,534
    This past week, 3.3 million US citizens registered to claim unemployment benefits. This is the all-time highest unemployment rate in US history. The previous record was set in 1982, when unemployment claims hit 695,000.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52050426

    As feared, the global economy will be left in very, very bad shape from the coronavirus.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2020 Posts: 19,415
    Glad you brought that up, @DaltonCraig007.
    I know very little about all things economy, so I want to ask the room.
    1. If the global economy is left in very bad shape indeed, won't better times automatically come with renewed economical prosperity?
    2. If the entire world is going through the same economical crisis, with no "winners" but only "losers", what is the worst-case scenario?
    3. Could this have been avoided if governments had acted soon or is such an economical recession unavoidable in times like these?

    Thank you in advance for answering my questions.
  • Posts: 527
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Glad you brought that up, @DaltonCraig007.
    I know very little about all things economy, so I want to ask the room.
    1. If the global economy is left in very bad shape indeed, won't better times automatically come with renewed economical prosperity?
    2. If the entire world is going through the same economical crisis, with no "winners" but only "losers", what is the worst-case scenario?
    3. Could this have been avoided if governments had acted soon or is such an economical recession unavoidable in times like these?

    These are questions that I wish @bondjames would answer (his insight on economic matters is always interesting), but he hasn't posted in over a year.
  • Posts: 4,668
    Here's an article (in french) about the repercussions of this crisis on comics, and more specifically on comic book stores in France :

    http://www.comicbox.com/index.php/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-et-comics-etat-des-lieux-au-19-03-2020/
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 2,708
    Bad news from Lombardy... almost 1000 cases more than yesterday, after an encouraging four days with a positive trend.
  • Posts: 4,668
    Well, the current pandemic has impacted my work. In the sorting center, they announced yesterday that from now on, the center will only be open from tuesday to friday (instead of from monday to saturday), and that we'll only be working three days a week (either from tuesday to thursday or from wednesday to friday). I don't know yet my days, but I think that they'll tell me tomorrow. I'm not complaining, mind you, but still, I was accustomed to working five days a week. Plus, they tell us that it won't impact our salaries, but I have my doubts.

    Oh, and Covid-19 is also the reason I haven't been able yet to update the TV Alerts post, because I haven't been able to go and buy my TV programme this week. Maybe next week, we'll see.

    Oh, and go to this site :

    https://www.sandringham-hotel.com/

    There's a LiveCam from St. Mary's Street, where the hotel is located. I haven't seen it this empty before (and I've been there three times already).
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    Italy has recorded 662 deaths and 6,153 new cases. They are now the first country with more than 8,000 deaths.
  • Posts: 518
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Glad you brought that up, @DaltonCraig007.
    I know very little about all things economy, so I want to ask the room.
    1. If the global economy is left in very bad shape indeed, won't better times automatically come with renewed economical prosperity?
    2. If the entire world is going through the same economical crisis, with no "winners" but only "losers", what is the worst-case scenario?
    3. Could this have been avoided if governments had acted soon or is such an economical recession unavoidable in times like these?

    Thank you in advance for answering my questions.

    I think even economists would disagree on any answers. That’s the strange thing about economics.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 518
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I must admit that my impression is different now: A definite majority of people seem to comply with the rules. But then, it is easy to keep "social distance" of two meters or so when there are no more than maybe 25 per cent of the usual crowd around. At any rate, I find people are getting more disciplined and less egotistical and panicky than quite a few were initially. Just an hour ago, I even came across a stocked-up shelf of TP and other hygiene papers, and managed to buy a few sachets of dry yeast and a kilo of basmati rice, unthinkable just a week ago.

    Yes that’s my impression too. The news focuses on the obvious exceptions (jammed tube trains etc) but wherever I go I see people following the guidance.

    The mood here seems more sombre, and less panicky, than last week too. More of a genuine Blitz spirit perhaps (rather than the whipped-up false Blitz spirit beloved by nationalistic politicians). The mood seems grim, and serious, and focussed.

    I think the news about the new hospitals may have helped. Those conference centres being converted into super-hospitals. Perhaps it’s dawning on people that this is serious, it is not made-up, it is not an overreaction, and that either they themselves or someone they know might die.

    Edit: I originally said morgues, not hospitals!
  • j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I must admit that my impression is different now: A definite majority of people seem to comply with the rules. But then, it is easy to keep "social distance" of two meters or so when there are no more than maybe 25 per cent of the usual crowd around. At any rate, I find people are getting more disciplined and less egotistical and panicky than quite a few were initially. Just an hour ago, I even came across a stocked-up shelf of TP and other hygiene papers, and managed to buy a few sachets of dry yeast and a kilo of basmati rice, unthinkable just a week ago.

    Yes that’s my impression too. The news focuses on the obvious exceptions (jammed tube trains etc) but wherever I go I see people following the guidance.

    The mood here seems more sombre, and less panicky, than last week too. More of a genuine Blitz spirit perhaps (rather than the whipped-up false Blitz spirit beloved by nationalistic politicians). The mood seems grim, and serious, and focussed.

    I think the news about the new hospitals may have helped. Those conference centres being converted into super-hospitals. Perhaps it’s dawning on people that this is serious, it is not made-up, it is not an overreaction, and that either they themselves or someone they know might die.

    Edit: I originally said morgues, not hospitals!

    Give our regards to Morton Slumber.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2020 Posts: 16,257
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    [*] If the global economy is left in very bad shape indeed, won't better times automatically come with renewed economical prosperity?
    [*] If the entire world is going through the same economical crisis, with no "winners" but only "losers", what is the worst-case scenario?
    [*] Could this have been avoided if governments had acted soon or is such an economical recession unavoidable in times like these?
    [/list]
    1) Yes.
    2) Extremely slow come back due to a continued hoarding of wealth.
    3) Impact could have been lessened with more money flowing & not locked away in bank accounts, but yeah, it's basically unavoidable in our current economic model.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 19,415
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    [*] If the global economy is left in very bad shape indeed, won't better times automatically come with renewed economical prosperity?
    [*] If the entire world is going through the same economical crisis, with no "winners" but only "losers", what is the worst-case scenario?
    [*] Could this have been avoided if governments had acted soon or is such an economical recession unavoidable in times like these?
    [/list]
    1) Yes.
    2) Extremely slow come back due to a continued hoarding of wealth.
    3) Impact could have been lessened with more money flowing & not locked away in bank accounts.

    Thanks, @chrisisall. That's very clear.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,257
    Just read that in China 14% of those who beat the virus have gotten reinfected. Also read that there might be two strains of this new virus. ALSO read that some people don't develop classic pneumonia, but a form where you drown more from blood plasma secreted though virus-damaged cell walls than overproduction of mucus. I'm so scared for my in-laws who are around 80... wiping everything down with alcohol all the time. Watched Tomorrow Never Dies on my new 50" TV during protective distancey....
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Hamburg, near the Atlantic Hotel
    Posts: 5,993
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Just read that in China 14% of those who beat the virus have gotten reinfected. Also read that there might be two strains of this new virus. ALSO read that some people don't develop classic pneumonia, but a form where you drown more from blood plasma secreted though virus-damaged cell walls than overproduction of mucus. I'm so scared for my in-laws who are around 80... wiping everything down with alcohol all the time. Watched Tomorrow Never Dies on my new 50" TV during protective distancey....

    Make my day.
  • Posts: 4,302
    @chrisisall source please
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited March 2020 Posts: 6,844
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Glad you brought that up, @DaltonCraig007.
    I know very little about all things economy, so I want to ask the room.
    1. If the global economy is left in very bad shape indeed, won't better times automatically come with renewed economical prosperity?
    2. If the entire world is going through the same economical crisis, with no "winners" but only "losers", what is the worst-case scenario?
    3. Could this have been avoided if governments had acted soon or is such an economical recession unavoidable in times like these?

    Thank you in advance for answering my questions.

    1. by definition yes. Either that, or there will be no better times.
    2. The worst-case scenario is that the virus keeps on 'hopping' from country to country. deminishing or destroying economies that try to ressurect themselves. Take China as an example: with only 5000 people still in care and no new cases through community spread the tens to hundreds new cases are all from oreigners coming rom the USA and Europe. China seems to have this under control, but international flights will be halted or the time beeing. Still, they seem to have it in control which would at least diminish the chances of this worst-case scenario. However, another (political) (trade)war between VChina and the US, or Iran, would certainly make things worse. And these are just a few of the hundreds of variables playing a role here.
    3. The aster the virus is under control, the easier it is for an economy to take a hit. Economies florish in certainty/stability and prospect of growth. You invest your last dollars in your company when the risk seems worth the gain. Ater ten years of growth you'd think people would've saved enough, but that's not how people think. With ten years of stability they're ar more inclined to take risks (borrow money) as the return seems certain. Take the shoal industry in the US. afak they need an oil price of at least 40 dollars/barrel to cover the costs. They made the US the biggest oil producer in the world. Apart from oil prices crashing because of a lack of demand now, Saoudi-arabia and Russia decided to start a price war and hike the production, pushing the prices lower and lower. The American industry is completly financed for billions by banks. They'll have to take tremendous losses if this lasts for more than a couple of months.

    Sorry, I digress. In short, could it have been avoided if all governments had acted faster? Yes. If China hadn't downplayed it, it might not even have left Wuhan. If all other countries had immediately quarentined anyone who'd been in that region from januari onwards, the numbers would've stayed in the thousands, max. Especially if social distancing had been applied immediately. Yes, the economy would've had a bit of a dent, but with the prospects of quick containment most would never have nown, and the US unemployment wouldn't have jumped rom a historic low to a historic high like it's doing now (and this is only the start).
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,257
    patb wrote: »
    @chrisisall source please

    Sorry, I read scores of stuff every day, I don't compile lists. I commit to memory what seems reputable, and form a holistic opinion based on a mental cross reference of those many sources. This is not an academic exercise to me- I have a Son who is immune-compromised. Sure you understand.
  • Posts: 2,091
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Glad you brought that up, @DaltonCraig007.
    I know very little about all things economy, so I want to ask the room.
    1. If the global economy is left in very bad shape indeed, won't better times automatically come with renewed economical prosperity?
    2. If the entire world is going through the same economical crisis, with no "winners" but only "losers", what is the worst-case scenario?
    3. Could this have been avoided if governments had acted soon or is such an economical recession unavoidable in times like these?

    Thank you in advance for answering my questions.

    Worst case scenario - the global economy of the world collapses (which looks like where we are heading to), because the dollar collapses (very likely, given the increasing tragic story unfolding in the US), and the dollar is what the global market is set to. Banks inevitably then collapse too.

    What happens then? Who knows. A new global currency could be enforced. Maybe a crypto currency like Bitcoin, that every country adheres to because each currency has been devalued so much, its not worth the paper its printed on.

    Maybe this is natures way of rebooting the planet. We will all change our values to each other once this is over, I'm sure of it. The world will be a very different place once we are through to the other side (probably a lot cleaner too).
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 2,708
    Boris Johnson tests positive for coronavirus.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 6,844
    matt_u wrote: »
    Boris Johnson tests positive for coronavirus.

    Hmm, I thought he said it wasn't that bad, sort of flu. Let's see what happens. Earnestly though, I hope his symptoms won't get worse. But I understand he started with mild ones yesterday, so in a week we'll know how bad it will get.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 4,302
    How effectively can our gov operate? In theory, much of the cabinet and members of COBRA should be in self isolation

    Now Hancock has it! pretty clear that the Westminster bubble was not practicing what it preached
Sign In or Register to comment.