NTTD - Official Trailer Discussion Thread - First trailer OUT NOW (MINOR SPOILERS ALLOWED)

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Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,990
    antovolk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I would imagine it will be a reboot of a kind, but a milder one as they can’t really do ‘Bond becomes 007’ again - unless they change it really drastically.

    A reboot doesn't mean they have to do an origin story again though - just that it's gonna be a new cast and narratively disconnected from any of the preceding films.

    Yeah exactly; that’s what I mean when I say ‘a milder reboot’. I too think the chances of the next Bond having fallen in love with Vesper and gone off with Madeline etc. are pretty much zero, yeah.
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 2,598
    Bond 26 doesn’t need to be a reboot. Even with a different Bond, I would love if Ralph Nathaniel Twisleton-Wykeham-Fiennes and Wishaw stayed on. In terms of Harris, I don’t care either way. Bernard Lee and Desmond Llewelyn stayed on for several different Bonds. Anyway, we’re talking about actors who are hot property so obviously, even if Eon do want the supporting cast to stay, whether they would actually want to is the big question.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I just need Bond 26 to start with the New Bond infiltrating a foreign military Base in Combative outfit....with the rest of the film involving him trailing nefarious rogue agents that leads him to discover a new, original villian is behind everything. The film ends with Bond kissing the girl after he saves the world.....and Bond 27 starts with a fresh mission again....no more linking the films.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,983
    antovolk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I would imagine it will be a reboot of a kind, but a milder one as they can’t really do ‘Bond becomes 007’ again - unless they change it really drastically.

    A reboot doesn't mean they have to do an origin story again though - just that it's gonna be a new cast and narratively disconnected from any of the preceding films.
    Yes! Exactly.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,990
    Bounine wrote: »
    Bond 26 doesn’t need to be a reboot. Even with a different Bond, I would love if Ralph Nathaniel Twisleton-Wykeham-Fiennes and Wishaw stayed on. In terms of Harris, I don’t care either way. Bernard Lee and Desmond Llewelyn stayed on for several different Bonds. Anyway, we’re talking about actors who are hot property so obviously, even if Eon do want the supporting cast to stay, whether they would actually want to is the big question.

    Yes indeed: it's notable that this will be their third film and contracts for film series often come in threes don't they? I could imagine Whishaw not doing any more as he's at a high point in his career.
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,539
    Contraband wrote: »
    ggl007 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Is it just me or these shots the same? https://i.imgur.com/ywKSF1I.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/TsX9q7v.jpg
    Then you got this shot and she is in a car on the different side and the background is different.
    Denbigh wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Is it just me or these shots the same? https://i.imgur.com/ywKSF1I.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/TsX9q7v.jpg
    Then you got where she pulls up to Bond and she is in a car on the different side and the background is different.
    What do you mean the same?

    I meant the background with the lake the other one is blurred because of the screen.
    I have a small theory that this could be her last scene near the end of the film. I don't know why really haha, but the shot feels very... yes I just kicked arse with James Bond and now I'm gonna get my next mission. I could be very wrong but I get that vibe. I think those scenes you've posted are different scenes. I think that whole look with the mask and the coat will only appear in that sequence we've seen in the trailers.

    Is that the Valhalla?
    screen-shot-2020-02-03-at-11-33-16-1580729648.jpg?resize=768:*

    Aston Martin DBS Superleggera

    I think you are right...

    Aston-Martin_DBS_Superleggera_Volante_3.jpg
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,520
    Univex wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I do wonder what This Will Change Everything could mean. That stood out to me more than anything else in the trailer. Very intriguing

    Yes, apparently we all want things to change completely in the Bond films. That's what we fans crave for when putting on a James Bond film DVD 8-|

    You're right, @Jordo007, it is intriguing, and worrisome. For me, at least.

    Yeah I'm the same mate, I'm a little bit worried about that line.
    Or I'm in two minds about it at least, like @00Agent said it's just an attempt to get the hype train moving, especially to an American audience that love hyperbole

    Yet if that isn't the case, I do wonder what it can mean for the film? Possibly hinting at Nomi being 007? I hope that's the only thing personally, because Nomi being 007 in and of itself is huge shift for the series, let alone if there is anything else

    @Pierce2Daniel you're brilliant on this forum for detective work and stalking accounts but honestly how could you be happy if Nomi ended the film as 007 and she returned for future adventures as the lead character?
    Nothing against Miss Lynch herself but speaking for myself, I would never go and watch another "Bond" film again, that would be a disaster in my book
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,185
    I only started liking Nomi after Barbara clarified that she's not takeing over. Bevor that she annoyed me.

    But now i can see her working very well in the film and people might get around to cheering for her.

    I think her and Bond will have a very competitive relationship, as she's basically him from CR (as far as i can tell).

    So i think Bond will end up being more aggressive and reckless because of her, as the trailers indicate. And that's a good thing obviously.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,869
    I'm seeing a lot of that @00Agent. I've seen a lot of people react to trailers confused that Bond isn't a woman, or that Nomi isn't gonna be the next James Bond. The media really screwed EON over on that one haha.

    ...and I didn't really click onto the idea that she would be "him from CR", that's a very interesting choice if proven correct, and really fits with Fukunaga seemingly wanted to achieve with this, which would make her character even more relevant cause that would also mean she's not just there to be "woke" as people have put it.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I'm seeing a lot of that @00Agent. I've seen a lot of people react to trailers confused that Bond isn't a woman, or that Nomi isn't gonna be the next James Bond. The media really screwed EON over on that one haha.

    That's what they do ;)
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,185
    Denbigh wrote: »
    ...and I didn't really click onto the idea that she would be "him from CR", that's a very interesting choice if proven correct, and really fits with Fukunaga seemingly wanted to achieve with this, which would make her character even more relevant cause that would also mean she's not just there to be "woke" as people have put it.

    In CR they went to great lenght to establish that Bond and his job are pretty messed up by their nature, so you would think to do that kind of job effectively you need to have 'flexible' morals, and some sort of recklessness (which Bond has in spades). This is not a BS bloodless Marvel franchise. In this world that job has consequences. And it comes all straight from Fleming.

    As Bond said if you do this job long enough there won't be enough soul left to salvage...

    And I want to see that those rules apply to her just as well... Same for Moneypenny who was pushed by M to shot Bond accidentaly and then resigned as she realized field work is not for her.
    Nomi is obviously much tougher than that and will consequently have some moral flexibility of her own. She's a government contract Killer, not a hero.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,983
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    WhyBond wrote: »
    Safin cannot be Dr.No because Bond first met him in the first movie. So when Leiter tells Connery's Bond we know nothing about Dr. No except his name Dr. No that implies Bond has never met him.

    Bond and the lady 00 double flying the glider thing reminds me of the switchblade scene in Die Another Day with Jinx.

    Bond didn't know Leiter either in DN or CR and they met for the first in time in both movies. Different continuities.

    I don't think anyone is talking or thinking an exact match up. More like a vague consecutive set of the occurrence of larger events/villains/missions. I would say people around my age care a lot less if the continuity makes sense in detail (in the '60s no one cared about that stuff much at all in any series or franchise), so much as that it's the same Bond. @talos7 being the exception, I guess; he and I are the same age and it does seem to matter to him that there is a definite distinction between the Eras, so my theory may be for naught.

    Lol, yes, I'm a lone voice in the wild when it comes to this; I cannot accept that Dalton's Bond is the same as Connery, Moore and Lazenby. My theory is based on the age of the actors and the fact that the Bond films take place in their present day.
    So I see Dalton as the first reboot, with he and Brosnan being the same Bond. As for all of the references made to incidents in previous films and the number of actors who carried over, that is just the same thing that they did with Dench and "M", but on steroids.

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,869
    00Agent wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    ...and I didn't really click onto the idea that she would be "him from CR", that's a very interesting choice if proven correct, and really fits with Fukunaga seemingly wanted to achieve with this, which would make her character even more relevant cause that would also mean she's not just there to be "woke" as people have put it.
    She's a government contract killer, not a hero.
    Loving everything you said @00Agent and I think this last line sums it up very well, and speaks to the fact that this is just one way you can create interesting characters who can feel relevant to a story :) They don't need to be presented as perfect, they need to be presented as real people, with real development.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 14,990
    Denbigh wrote: »
    ...and I didn't really click onto the idea that she would be "him from CR", that's a very interesting choice if proven correct,

    Oh that's a great point- I didn't think of that either. That makes it a very nice bookend for his time in the role.

    talos7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    WhyBond wrote: »
    Safin cannot be Dr.No because Bond first met him in the first movie. So when Leiter tells Connery's Bond we know nothing about Dr. No except his name Dr. No that implies Bond has never met him.

    Bond and the lady 00 double flying the glider thing reminds me of the switchblade scene in Die Another Day with Jinx.

    Bond didn't know Leiter either in DN or CR and they met for the first in time in both movies. Different continuities.

    I don't think anyone is talking or thinking an exact match up. More like a vague consecutive set of the occurrence of larger events/villains/missions. I would say people around my age care a lot less if the continuity makes sense in detail (in the '60s no one cared about that stuff much at all in any series or franchise), so much as that it's the same Bond. @talos7 being the exception, I guess; he and I are the same age and it does seem to matter to him that there is a definite distinction between the Eras, so my theory may be for naught.

    Lol, yes, I'm a lone voice in the wild when it comes to this; I cannot accept that Dalton's Bond is the same as Connery, Moore and Lazenby. My theory is based on the age of the actors and the fact that the Bond films take place in their present day.
    So I see Dalton as the first reboot, with he and Brosnan being the same Bond. As for all of the references made to incidents in previous films and the number of actors who carried over, that is just the same thing that they did with Dench and "M", but on steroids.

    Yes I've always seen it that way too, although of course Dalton has also married Tracy at some point.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,990
    talos7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    WhyBond wrote: »
    Safin cannot be Dr.No because Bond first met him in the first movie. So when Leiter tells Connery's Bond we know nothing about Dr. No except his name Dr. No that implies Bond has never met him.

    Bond and the lady 00 double flying the glider thing reminds me of the switchblade scene in Die Another Day with Jinx.

    Bond didn't know Leiter either in DN or CR and they met for the first in time in both movies. Different continuities.

    I don't think anyone is talking or thinking an exact match up. More like a vague consecutive set of the occurrence of larger events/villains/missions. I would say people around my age care a lot less if the continuity makes sense in detail (in the '60s no one cared about that stuff much at all in any series or franchise), so much as that it's the same Bond. @talos7 being the exception, I guess; he and I are the same age and it does seem to matter to him that there is a definite distinction between the Eras, so my theory may be for naught.

    Lol, yes, I'm a lone voice in the wild when it comes to this; I cannot accept that Dalton's Bond is the same as Connery, Moore and Lazenby. My theory is based on the age of the actors and the fact that the Bond films take place in their present day.
    So I see Dalton as the first reboot, with he and Brosnan being the same Bond. As for all of the references made to incidents in previous films and the number of actors who carried over, that is just the same thing that they did with Dench and "M", but on steroids.

    Yes I've always seen it that way too, although of course Dalton has also married Tracy at some point.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,983
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    WhyBond wrote: »
    Safin cannot be Dr.No because Bond first met him in the first movie. So when Leiter tells Connery's Bond we know nothing about Dr. No except his name Dr. No that implies Bond has never met him.

    Bond and the lady 00 double flying the glider thing reminds me of the switchblade scene in Die Another Day with Jinx.

    Bond didn't know Leiter either in DN or CR and they met for the first in time in both movies. Different continuities.

    I don't think anyone is talking or thinking an exact match up. More like a vague consecutive set of the occurrence of larger events/villains/missions. I would say people around my age care a lot less if the continuity makes sense in detail (in the '60s no one cared about that stuff much at all in any series or franchise), so much as that it's the same Bond. @talos7 being the exception, I guess; he and I are the same age and it does seem to matter to him that there is a definite distinction between the Eras, so my theory may be for naught.

    Lol, yes, I'm a lone voice in the wild when it comes to this; I cannot accept that Dalton's Bond is the same as Connery, Moore and Lazenby. My theory is based on the age of the actors and the fact that the Bond films take place in their present day.
    So I see Dalton as the first reboot, with he and Brosnan being the same Bond. As for all of the references made to incidents in previous films and the number of actors who carried over, that is just the same thing that they did with Dench and "M", but on steroids.

    Yes I've always seen it that way too, although of course Dalton has also married Tracy at some point.

    Absolutely. The same events can exist in different timelines.
  • You’re clearly not a fan of the classic Bond films. You sound like someone who grew up on the Craig films. Classic Bond tropes are to be adhered to. That’s what makes it BOND. Following other franchises is doing a disservice to your own franchise. Why should I do what other franchises are doing when I have my own thing going??? Let Marvel be Marvel and let Bond be Bond. Different animals entirely.

    I take it you never saw MOONRAKER and a whole bunch of other Bond films that followed trends of the times.
    MOONRAKER borrowed the space elements from STAR WARS but that’s all it borrowed. It didn’t try to create a multi-chapter saga type of thing a la STAR WARS. Thats why I’m saying just because another franchise is doing it doesn’t mean this franchise has to do it. It’s never done it before, no need to do it now. It’s always been a series of standalone adventures. Borrowing elements from other series like Kung fu or space battle or the war on drugs or what’s current in the news is a whole other matter. That’s always been part of Bond. But changing the very core of the series into something different should not be done.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,040
    You’re clearly not a fan of the classic Bond films. You sound like someone who grew up on the Craig films. Classic Bond tropes are to be adhered to. That’s what makes it BOND. Following other franchises is doing a disservice to your own franchise. Why should I do what other franchises are doing when I have my own thing going??? Let Marvel be Marvel and let Bond be Bond. Different animals entirely.

    I take it you never saw MOONRAKER and a whole bunch of other Bond films that followed trends of the times.
    MOONRAKER borrowed the space elements from STAR WARS but that’s all it borrowed. It didn’t try to create a multi-chapter saga type of thing a la STAR WARS. Thats why I’m saying just because another franchise is doing it doesn’t mean this franchise has to do it. It’s never done it before, no need to do it now. It’s always been a series of standalone adventures. Borrowing elements from other series like Kung fu or space battle or the war on drugs or what’s current in the news is a whole other matter. That’s always been part of Bond. But changing the very core of the series into something different should not be done.

    There's a lot of picking and choosing here. You mentioned tropes. A lot of those tropes are still there. The very core of the series is Bond. And Bond is still Bond. He is the core of the series. And as such, they haven't changed it.

    Not yet, at least.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,990
    You’re clearly not a fan of the classic Bond films. You sound like someone who grew up on the Craig films. Classic Bond tropes are to be adhered to. That’s what makes it BOND. Following other franchises is doing a disservice to your own franchise. Why should I do what other franchises are doing when I have my own thing going??? Let Marvel be Marvel and let Bond be Bond. Different animals entirely.

    I take it you never saw MOONRAKER and a whole bunch of other Bond films that followed trends of the times.
    MOONRAKER borrowed the space elements from STAR WARS but that’s all it borrowed. It didn’t try to create a multi-chapter saga type of thing a la STAR WARS. Thats why I’m saying just because another franchise is doing it doesn’t mean this franchise has to do it. It’s never done it before, no need to do it now. It’s always been a series of standalone adventures. Borrowing elements from other series like Kung fu or space battle or the war on drugs or what’s current in the news is a whole other matter. That’s always been part of Bond. But changing the very core of the series into something different should not be done.

    Ah, so you mean when Bond’s girlfriend returned in the second one and they did a slow reveal of Blofeld leading up to him finally meeting Bond in YOLT, that’s exactly the sort of things Bond films don’t do? That’s... confusing :)
  • Posts: 6,677
    @mtm, arguing with you is exhausting, not because you’re wright or wrong, but because you simply enjoy debate by logic and linguistic fencing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, sometimes its good fun, but most of the time you’re arguing against people and things that are not antagonist to your aims. Twisting is not always putting into form, sometimes its just twisting.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 14,990
    Univex wrote: »
    @mtm, arguing with you is exhausting, not because you’re wright or wrong, but because you simply enjoy debate by logic and linguistic fencing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, sometimes its good fun, but most of the time you’re arguing against people and things that are not antagonist to your aims. Twisting is not always putting into form, sometimes its just twisting.

    No need to get personal. I don’t believe in the assertion so I’m putting the case against it. Saying that the Bond films should and have never done something which they clearly have done several times right from the start makes no sense to me: maybe it does to you. You’re welcome to explain why you think they haven’t if you believe the opposite.
    I’m not going to have a go at your character: if you want to have a go at me personally please do so over the PMs, not on the open board. I don’t believe in questioning the person, just the opinion.
  • Posts: 6,677
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @mtm, arguing with you is exhausting, not because you’re wright or wrong, but because you simply enjoy debate by logic and linguistic fencing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, sometimes its good fun, but most of the time you’re arguing against people and things that are not antagonist to your aims. Twisting is not always putting into form, sometimes its just twisting.

    No need to get personal. I don’t believe in the assertion so I’m putting the case against it. Saying that the Bond films should and have never done something which they clearly have done several times right from the start makes no sense to me: maybe it does to you. You’re welcome to explain why you think they haven’t if you believe the opposite.
    I’m not going to have a go at your character: if you want to have a go at me personally please do so over the PMs, not on the open board. I don’t believe in questioning the person, just the opinion.

    Not having a go at you at all. I enjoy reading your comments. I just think that you two were actually in agreement and we’re fighting for semantics.

    Yes, Bond films have a formula and they also are always innovative one way or another.

    Getting rid of the so called formula entirely and calling that innovation would be idiotic. That doesn’t mean innovation hasn’t been part of the films since the beginning.

    And I suppose we all can agree on that.

    And hey, if I said racing against Alain Prost was exhausting, I wouldn’t be criticising him negatively, would I. You could very well take my post as a compliment. I did say you liked to fence using logic and semantics. That is exhausting. But rarely in a bad way.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 14,990
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @mtm, arguing with you is exhausting, not because you’re wright or wrong, but because you simply enjoy debate by logic and linguistic fencing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, sometimes its good fun, but most of the time you’re arguing against people and things that are not antagonist to your aims. Twisting is not always putting into form, sometimes its just twisting.

    No need to get personal. I don’t believe in the assertion so I’m putting the case against it. Saying that the Bond films should and have never done something which they clearly have done several times right from the start makes no sense to me: maybe it does to you. You’re welcome to explain why you think they haven’t if you believe the opposite.
    I’m not going to have a go at your character: if you want to have a go at me personally please do so over the PMs, not on the open board. I don’t believe in questioning the person, just the opinion.

    Not having a go at you at all. I enjoy reading your comments. I just think that you two were actually in agreement and we’re fighting for semantics.

    Yes, Bond films have a formula and they also are always innovative one way or another.

    Getting rid of the so called formula entirely and calling that innovation would be idiotic. That doesn’t mean innovation hasn’t been part of the films since the beginning.

    And I suppose we all can agree on that.

    And hey, if I said racing against Alain Prost was exhausting, I wouldn’t be criticising him negatively, would I. You could very well take my post as a compliment. I did say you liked to fence using logic and semantics. That is exhausting. But rarely in a bad way.

    I’m not playing some sort of game: ‘twisting’ isn’t an allegation I see as positive. Yes I use logic to make my points: I’m hardly going to apologise for that!
    I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that continuity wasn’t part of the films’ ‘formula’ right from the start in 1962?
  • mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @mtm, arguing with you is exhausting, not because you’re wright or wrong, but because you simply enjoy debate by logic and linguistic fencing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, sometimes its good fun, but most of the time you’re arguing against people and things that are not antagonist to your aims. Twisting is not always putting into form, sometimes its just twisting.

    No need to get personal. I don’t believe in the assertion so I’m putting the case against it. Saying that the Bond films should and have never done something which they clearly have done several times right from the start makes no sense to me: maybe it does to you. You’re welcome to explain why you think they haven’t if you believe the opposite.
    I’m not going to have a go at your character: if you want to have a go at me personally please do so over the PMs, not on the open board. I don’t believe in questioning the person, just the opinion.

    Not having a go at you at all. I enjoy reading your comments. I just think that you two were actually in agreement and we’re fighting for semantics.

    Yes, Bond films have a formula and they also are always innovative one way or another.

    Getting rid of the so called formula entirely and calling that innovation would be idiotic. That doesn’t mean innovation hasn’t been part of the films since the beginning.

    And I suppose we all can agree on that.

    And hey, if I said racing against Alain Prost was exhausting, I wouldn’t be criticising him negatively, would I. You could very well take my post as a compliment. I did say you liked to fence using logic and semantics. That is exhausting. But rarely in a bad way.

    I’m not playing some sort of game: ‘twisting’ isn’t an allegation I see as positive. Yes I use logic to make my points: I’m hardly going to apologise for that!
    I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that continuity wasn’t part of the films’ ‘formula’ right from the start in 1962?
    No, continuity barely existed back then. I saw YOLT before I ever saw the unseen Blofeld in FRWL or TB. I didn’t feel confused or felt I needed to see the previous films. Those films stood on their own. With the exception of SF, all the Craig films are heavily tied together. And even with SF they screwed the pooch after the fact by trying to jimmy it into the whole Craig Quantum/Spectre saga (i.e. it’s all connected to Bro-feld).

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @mtm, arguing with you is exhausting, not because you’re wright or wrong, but because you simply enjoy debate by logic and linguistic fencing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, sometimes its good fun, but most of the time you’re arguing against people and things that are not antagonist to your aims. Twisting is not always putting into form, sometimes its just twisting.

    No need to get personal. I don’t believe in the assertion so I’m putting the case against it. Saying that the Bond films should and have never done something which they clearly have done several times right from the start makes no sense to me: maybe it does to you. You’re welcome to explain why you think they haven’t if you believe the opposite.
    I’m not going to have a go at your character: if you want to have a go at me personally please do so over the PMs, not on the open board. I don’t believe in questioning the person, just the opinion.

    Not having a go at you at all. I enjoy reading your comments. I just think that you two were actually in agreement and we’re fighting for semantics.

    Yes, Bond films have a formula and they also are always innovative one way or another.

    Getting rid of the so called formula entirely and calling that innovation would be idiotic. That doesn’t mean innovation hasn’t been part of the films since the beginning.

    And I suppose we all can agree on that.

    And hey, if I said racing against Alain Prost was exhausting, I wouldn’t be criticising him negatively, would I. You could very well take my post as a compliment. I did say you liked to fence using logic and semantics. That is exhausting. But rarely in a bad way.

    I’m not playing some sort of game: ‘twisting’ isn’t an allegation I see as positive. Yes I use logic to make my points: I’m hardly going to apologise for that!
    I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that continuity wasn’t part of the films’ ‘formula’ right from the start in 1962?

    @Univex makes a good point and we all get yours. Just wind it in a bit.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @mtm, arguing with you is exhausting, not because you’re wright or wrong, but because you simply enjoy debate by logic and linguistic fencing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, sometimes its good fun, but most of the time you’re arguing against people and things that are not antagonist to your aims. Twisting is not always putting into form, sometimes its just twisting.

    No need to get personal. I don’t believe in the assertion so I’m putting the case against it. Saying that the Bond films should and have never done something which they clearly have done several times right from the start makes no sense to me: maybe it does to you. You’re welcome to explain why you think they haven’t if you believe the opposite.
    I’m not going to have a go at your character: if you want to have a go at me personally please do so over the PMs, not on the open board. I don’t believe in questioning the person, just the opinion.

    Not having a go at you at all. I enjoy reading your comments. I just think that you two were actually in agreement and we’re fighting for semantics.

    Yes, Bond films have a formula and they also are always innovative one way or another.

    Getting rid of the so called formula entirely and calling that innovation would be idiotic. That doesn’t mean innovation hasn’t been part of the films since the beginning.

    And I suppose we all can agree on that.

    And hey, if I said racing against Alain Prost was exhausting, I wouldn’t be criticising him negatively, would I. You could very well take my post as a compliment. I did say you liked to fence using logic and semantics. That is exhausting. But rarely in a bad way.

    I’m not playing some sort of game: ‘twisting’ isn’t an allegation I see as positive. Yes I use logic to make my points: I’m hardly going to apologise for that!
    I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that continuity wasn’t part of the films’ ‘formula’ right from the start in 1962?
    No, continuity barely existed back then. I saw YOLT before I ever saw the unseen Blofeld in FRWL or TB. I didn’t feel confused or felt I needed to see the previous films. Those films stood on their own. With the exception of SF, all the Craig films are heavily tied together. And even with SF they screwed the pooch after the fact by trying to jimmy it into the whole Craig Quantum/Spectre saga (i.e. it’s all connected to Bro-feld).

    True and a great illustration of the difference between the continuity of the Craig films versus the continuity of the Bond films at large. You can't take any Craig film out of context (except Skyfall) which is wholly unlike any other Bond film in the franchise.
    Come to think of it this may be one improvement over the novels that the films have done, specifically with OHMSS and YOLT. But just typing that, nothing beats the YOLT novel, what a madhouse.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 14,990
    Don’t forget how Dr No follows on from FRWL, with Bond being sent to Jamaica on a relatively simple job to help recuperate from his poisoning.
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @mtm, arguing with you is exhausting, not because you’re wright or wrong, but because you simply enjoy debate by logic and linguistic fencing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, sometimes its good fun, but most of the time you’re arguing against people and things that are not antagonist to your aims. Twisting is not always putting into form, sometimes its just twisting.

    No need to get personal. I don’t believe in the assertion so I’m putting the case against it. Saying that the Bond films should and have never done something which they clearly have done several times right from the start makes no sense to me: maybe it does to you. You’re welcome to explain why you think they haven’t if you believe the opposite.
    I’m not going to have a go at your character: if you want to have a go at me personally please do so over the PMs, not on the open board. I don’t believe in questioning the person, just the opinion.

    Not having a go at you at all. I enjoy reading your comments. I just think that you two were actually in agreement and we’re fighting for semantics.

    Yes, Bond films have a formula and they also are always innovative one way or another.

    Getting rid of the so called formula entirely and calling that innovation would be idiotic. That doesn’t mean innovation hasn’t been part of the films since the beginning.

    And I suppose we all can agree on that.

    And hey, if I said racing against Alain Prost was exhausting, I wouldn’t be criticising him negatively, would I. You could very well take my post as a compliment. I did say you liked to fence using logic and semantics. That is exhausting. But rarely in a bad way.

    I’m not playing some sort of game: ‘twisting’ isn’t an allegation I see as positive. Yes I use logic to make my points: I’m hardly going to apologise for that!
    I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that continuity wasn’t part of the films’ ‘formula’ right from the start in 1962?
    No, continuity barely existed back then. I saw YOLT before I ever saw the unseen Blofeld in FRWL or TB. I didn’t feel confused or felt I needed to see the previous films. Those films stood on their own. With the exception of SF, all the Craig films are heavily tied together. And even with SF they screwed the pooch after the fact by trying to jimmy it into the whole Craig Quantum/Spectre saga (i.e. it’s all connected to Bro-feld).

    Yeah okay, I take your point there. QoS was indeed touted as the first true sequel in the series, which is true, but not something I ever recall anyone having an issue with. I’d be surprised if you’ve ever genuinely felt confused watching a Craig film though: they’re not exactly hugely heavy in obscure references back. Skyfall was full of references to Bond and M’s pasts which we hadn’t seen before on screen, and if that material about Hong Kong and Scotland isn’t confusing I’m not sure why it would be confusing that he once fell in love with a woman who died etc.
    The idea that continuity is new I do refute though. And the idea that fans don’t like it (when we’re always debating stuff like whether Admiral Hargreaves became M etc.) is a very surprising one to me.

    As ringfire replied to me I felt it was fine to reply back: I honestly can’t tell if you guys are interested in conversations or not.
  • Posts: 12,274
    The standalone approach is a lot more friendly for creativity and longevity IMO. That being said, the biggest issue isn’t the continuity itself, but how poorly handled it is. SP’s retconning and forced childhood-connected drama is not a good way to go about continuity.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,990
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The standalone approach is a lot more friendly for creativity and longevity IMO. That being said, the biggest issue isn’t the continuity itself, but how poorly handled it is. SP’s retconning and forced childhood-connected drama is not a good way to go about continuity.

    Oh yeah absolutely: no arguments there. I don’t think you’ll find many folk who don’t think it was all a bit cack-handed the way Blofeld, in order to get revenge on James, was supposedly behind Silva’s mission to, er, get revenge...! :)
    But creativity? I don’t see any reason why running a thread through several films would make them less creative, and I doubt the Craig films are going to be considered as less long-lived than the other films just because they were linked.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,983
    Of course there was continuity in the early films; the difference it it wasn’t prominent and did not dictate the storylines.
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