Is Skyfall losing its gloss and appeal ?

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  • Posts: 11,425
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I like the SP trailer. A lot actually. Nothing so far worries me too much. I realise they're doing more background but this angle seems genuinely interesting. One of my issues with SF was that it didn't really do much with the basic premise of going back to Bonds childhood home. It could have been anywhere really.

    I am glad Dench is gone as well. Was really sick of her by SF. The characterisation of her M was all Over the place. Trust issues galore then suddenly it turns out Bonds her favourite - again and again in every movie. So tedious.

    Indeed.SP will be the first Bond film in over 25 YEARS that is completely Dench free.Long overdue.

    Slight exaggeration - she first appeared as M twenty years ago - but it seemed a lot longer!
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    Judi Dench was a great M, and my favorite as you can tell from the namesake of my account. She evolved the role from something of just being Bond's boss to a full-fledged character. For the character of James Bond to truly make sense in the world today, a government-sanctioned assassin, the presence of a personally involved M in the missions is required. It's significantly more unrealistic if M appoints people to 00 status only to give them an often ambiguous mission at the start of the story and let Bond operate to his own methods without any further involvement. Anyone who has the power to appoint legal assassins would have it in the interest of their own career and the relationships between nations and states to make sure the job is being done properly.

    It's going to be more of the same with the character of Mallory, who will likely have a different relationship with Bond based on the backstory Skyfall provided. The reason why I prefer the omnipresent M, such as Dench's character, is that it brought out more of the characters of both Bond continuities she oversaw. I can't understand how this could be perceived as a negative to the story in any way. It does two things: (1) accentuate the known characteristics of Bond and (2) provide glimpses of addition sides of Bond that without other characters to develop, would go unseen. It's only a negative if the interest is in having a more one-dimensional Bond, which to me is less appealing.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 4,622
    RC7 wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    you'll excuse anything when it's Bond.

    I find it amusing, given it's Roger. I don't see it as 'offensive', just a flippant remark. Although it is a well known fact that (Albert Moses) Sadruddin only ever ate curry and nothing else.
    I'm Canadian. If Bond says to me, that will keep you in maple syrup and back bacon for a while should I be offended?
    If Bond says to an Italian, that will keep you in spaghetti and meatballs for a while, should he be offended?
    Seems to me Bond is just playing with ethno-cultural culinary generalizations here. Harmless.
  • Posts: 11,425
    timmer wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    you'll excuse anything when it's Bond.

    I find it amusing, given it's Roger. I don't see it as 'offensive', just a flippant remark. Although it is a well known fact that (Albert Moses) Sadruddin only ever ate curry and nothing else.
    I'm Canadian. If Bond says to me, that will keep you in maple syrup and back bacon for a while should I be offended?
    If Bond says to an Italian, that will keep you in spaghetti and meatballs for a while, should he be offended?
    Seems to me Bond is just playing with ethno-cultural culinary generalizations here. Harmless.

    Good point.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    Getafix wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    you'll excuse anything when it's Bond.

    I find it amusing, given it's Roger. I don't see it as 'offensive', just a flippant remark. Although it is a well known fact that (Albert Moses) Sadruddin only ever ate curry and nothing else.
    I'm Canadian. If Bond says to me, that will keep you in maple syrup and back bacon for a while should I be offended?
    If Bond says to an Italian, that will keep you in spaghetti and meatballs for a while, should he be offended?
    Seems to me Bond is just playing with ethno-cultural culinary generalizations here. Harmless.

    Good point.
    Agreed.
  • Bon Appetit.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    @MayDayDiVicenzo, @chrisisall, @BAIN123-thanks. I love you back. We trolls must stick together.

    @AstonLotus-is it because I am black?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Getafix wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    you'll excuse anything when it's Bond.

    I find it amusing, given it's Roger. I don't see it as 'offensive', just a flippant remark. Although it is a well known fact that (Albert Moses) Sadruddin only ever ate curry and nothing else.
    I'm Canadian. If Bond says to me, that will keep you in maple syrup and back bacon for a while should I be offended?
    If Bond says to an Italian, that will keep you in spaghetti and meatballs for a while, should he be offended?
    Seems to me Bond is just playing with ethno-cultural culinary generalizations here. Harmless.

    Good point.
    Getafix wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    you'll excuse anything when it's Bond.

    I find it amusing, given it's Roger. I don't see it as 'offensive', just a flippant remark. Although it is a well known fact that (Albert Moses) Sadruddin only ever ate curry and nothing else.
    I'm Canadian. If Bond says to me, that will keep you in maple syrup and back bacon for a while should I be offended?
    If Bond says to an Italian, that will keep you in spaghetti and meatballs for a while, should he be offended?
    Seems to me Bond is just playing with ethno-cultural culinary generalizations here. Harmless.

    Good point.
    Getafix wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    you'll excuse anything when it's Bond.

    I find it amusing, given it's Roger. I don't see it as 'offensive', just a flippant remark. Although it is a well known fact that (Albert Moses) Sadruddin only ever ate curry and nothing else.
    I'm Canadian. If Bond says to me, that will keep you in maple syrup and back bacon for a while should I be offended?
    If Bond says to an Italian, that will keep you in spaghetti and meatballs for a while, should he be offended?
    Seems to me Bond is just playing with ethno-cultural culinary generalizations here. Harmless.

    Good point.

    Seconded. Harmless.
  • Posts: 3,289
    I think SF will not stand the test of time the same way CR does. Already many fans who originally loved SF when they first saw it are now starting to find issues with the film (including me), whereas the fan base for CR seems to be ever growing.

    Parts of SF work really well, but parts of it a little too contrived, and with numerous plot holes that now seem to define SF more than anything else.

    One of my biggest problems with the film is how Craig looks in the film. I said when the first photo's were released during filming that his hair was too short, and was proved right. The beard didn't do him any favours either. He looks haggard throughout most of the film, probably the worst an actor has looked in the part since Moore in AVTAK and Connery in DAF.

    Craig looks 10 years younger in the photos and trailer of SP, which is good to see.

  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    I'm sure this has been commented on elsewhere, and I hope this isn't too much of a spoiler, but is anyone else happy to see the return of the animal scare in the SP trailer? A nice nod to the wonderful John Glen era.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'm sure this has been commented on elsewhere, and I hope this isn't too much of a spoiler, but is anyone else happy to see the return of the animal scare in the SP trailer? A nice nod to the wonderful John Glen era.

    And a helicopter fight. :)
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    timmer wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    you'll excuse anything when it's Bond.

    I find it amusing, given it's Roger. I don't see it as 'offensive', just a flippant remark. Although it is a well known fact that (Albert Moses) Sadruddin only ever ate curry and nothing else.
    I'm Canadian. If Bond says to me, that will keep you in maple syrup and back bacon for a while should I be offended?
    If Bond says to an Italian, that will keep you in spaghetti and meatballs for a while, should he be offended?
    Seems to me Bond is just playing with ethno-cultural culinary generalizations here. Harmless.

    You are not British and probably aren't aware that Curry eaters was a derogatory term for Asians in the 70's and 80's. British TV used to be rife with casual racism, that scene that sets up that line is a stereo typical view of India and how many jokey references we can make of Asian culture, that I would expect from British comedy back then.

    No referring to eating maple syrup and bacon is not the same thing at all but you don't come from my country so I can't expect you to understand but no it's not harmless and just because I'm a Bond fan and Fleming wrote worse does not make it acceptable.

    Bond is no stranger to racism or stereotyping cultures, look at Dr No and to some degree LALD.

    Quite ironic considering what Rog has been back in the headlines recently and his English English comment.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yeah sure. We Norwegians and Swedes make fun of each other all the time, and in a quite mean manner. Nobody gets offended, we still love each other. Maybe because most of us are white, huh? Is that it? Sad if so.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'm sure this has been commented on elsewhere, and I hope this isn't too much of a spoiler, but is anyone else happy to see the return of the animal scare in the SP trailer? A nice nod to the wonderful John Glen era.
    I love the animal scare. Now if they can work in a laser it will really be a proper Bond film!!!!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    I think SF will not stand the test of time the same way CR does. Already many fans who originally loved SF when they first saw it are now starting to find issues with the film (including me), whereas the fan base for CR seems to be ever growing.

    Parts of SF work really well, but parts of it a little too contrived, and with numerous plot holes that now seem to define SF more than anything else.

    One of my biggest problems with the film is how Craig looks in the film. I said when the first photo's were released during filming that his hair was too short, and was proved right. The beard didn't do him any favours either. He looks haggard throughout most of the film, probably the worst an actor has looked in the part since Moore in AVTAK and Connery in DAF.

    Craig looks 10 years younger in the photos and trailer of SP, which is good to see.

    He is supposed to look old and tired...that was one of the key themes in the film. He is considered an old dog, an old ship ready to be sold for scrap.

    I don't know where you draw the conclusion that fans are souring on the film. If anything, the older the younger Bond fans get, the more they will recognize and appreciate SF's themes.
  • Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'm sure this has been commented on elsewhere, and I hope this isn't too much of a spoiler, but is anyone else happy to see the return of the animal scare in the SP trailer? A nice nod to the wonderful John Glen era.
    I love the animal scare. Now if they can work in a laser it will really be a proper Bond film!!!!

    Now we're on the same wave length!
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 4,622
    Shardlake wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    you'll excuse anything when it's Bond.

    I find it amusing, given it's Roger. I don't see it as 'offensive', just a flippant remark. Although it is a well known fact that (Albert Moses) Sadruddin only ever ate curry and nothing else.
    I'm Canadian. If Bond says to me, that will keep you in maple syrup and back bacon for a while should I be offended?
    If Bond says to an Italian, that will keep you in spaghetti and meatballs for a while, should he be offended?
    Seems to me Bond is just playing with ethno-cultural culinary generalizations here. Harmless.

    You are not British and probably aren't aware that Curry eaters was a derogatory term for Asians in the 70's and 80's. British TV used to be rife with casual racism, that scene that sets up that line is a stereo typical view of India and how many jokey references we can make of Asian culture, that I would expect from British comedy back then.

    No referring to eating maple syrup and bacon is not the same thing at all but you don't come from my country so I can't expect you to understand but no it's not harmless and just because I'm a Bond fan and Fleming wrote worse does not make it acceptable.

    Bond is no stranger to racism or stereotyping cultures, look at Dr No and to some degree LALD.

    Quite ironic considering what Rog has been back in the headlines recently and his English English comment.
    Fair enough, but I can't honestly be bothered by that line.
    Roger strikes me as a decent sort, so I can trust his judgement.
    Same with Fleming.
    Actual malicious intent to demean, is more likely to twig my radar. But to each his own.
    If that line bothers you, fair enough.Peace.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Roger and Tim forever!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    timmer wrote: »
    Actual malicious intent to demean, is more likely to twig my radar.
    Earth slime.

  • Posts: 4,622
    And Green Slime. Great, real bad , horror from outer space film, starrling La Paluzzi!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    timmer wrote: »
    And Green Slime. Great, real bad , horror from outer space film, starrling La Paluzzi!
    As a kid I loved that film. Haven't seen it in a while. But I was quoting the three breasted girl from Total Recall to piss you Earthers off en masse.

  • Posts: 4,622
    OK got it Total Recall. har har.
    Green Slime is free on you tube, still very colourful and still very green.
    Food coloring budget must have been through the roof on that film.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    Is Green Slime better than SF in your opinion?
    (have to be a little on topic here :)) )
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 4,622
    I can honestly say Green Slime has not lost any of its gloss or appeal, if in fact it ever had any, but I think it may have inspired Mendes somewhat.
    The alien planet landscapes remind somewhat of the Scottish moors settings in SF.Genius.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    Getafix wrote: »

    Did you write that? LOL
  • Posts: 11,425
    TripAces wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »

    Did you write that? LOL

    No, but it could have been me! ;)
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,727
    Have to agree with several of those points... especially the 'action'. SF was a largely underwhelming film.
    Being pretty to look at and having a plethora of unsubtle 007 'in-jokes' (here's looking at you Mendes with your silly DB5 ideas) is not sufficient to make a good Bondfilm.
  • Posts: 11,119
    AceHole wrote: »
    Have to agree with several of those points... especially the 'action'. SF was a largely underwhelming film.
    Being pretty to look at and having a plethora of unsubtle 007 'in-jokes' (here's looking at you Mendes with your silly DB5 ideas) is not sufficient to make a good Bondfilm.

    Yes, SF did not excel with the action, but it did excel with memorable acting moments.
    --> Silva's reveal in one shot, and the entire story about rats (reminded me of Dr. No's reveal "I'm an unloved child of a German missionary mother and a Chinese father").
    --> Silva's psychotic William Tell game, which is actually quite unprecedented in the Bond franchise.
    --> Silva's speech in front of "M" and the moment he shows his jaw prosthesis. I call it a perfect example of "stylish grose", in which you actually feel pity for the man.

    It is of my opinion that a Bond film should be foremost about memorable scenes, not just memorable action. Yes, good action is required, as long as it has narrative strength. For good insane action you should watch "Furious 7". I find it funny though, how so many Bond fans are slamming both "Skyfall" and "Furious 7", but for entirely different reasons.

    One other thing. Be daring and compare "Skyfall" with "From Russia With Love" and "Doctor No", especially action-wise. Then be honest to yourself and also find DN and FRWL boring for its absence of "memorable action sequences". But off course we don't do it. Because we Bond fans cherish the classics more than new movies.

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