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Controversial opinions about the books

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  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    SaintMark wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    His style, the way he favoured long descriptions, his portraits of the villains, their origins and nature.

    I do not see that as a XIXth writer percee, it is more a style that is still used these days.

    some yes, but it is not very modern. Compare Fleming with Elmore Leonard, to use an extreme example. One is very.modern, the other one more old fashioned. Not to say that one is better than the other, but they are very different. Because Fleming's references belong to another time.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,770
    oh boy I am not gonna make friends on this thread... screw it

    Diamonds Are Forever Is underated
    Benson is Underated
    Carte Blanc as an idea ( a revamped bond in the modern world 00 branc being dark and mysterious etc) was perfect it's execution was really bad.

    I have no intention of reading Solo any time soon.

    Devil May Care is horrible

    I never got into the Gardner novels

    Colonel Sun is not only a great book but should be made into a bond film.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    Risico007 wrote:
    oh boy I am not gonna make friends on this thread... screw it

    Diamonds Are Forever Is underrated

    Very much agree.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,803
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    His style, the way he favoured long descriptions, his portraits of the villains, their origins and nature.

    I do not see that as a XIXth writer percee, it is more a style that is still used these days.

    By whom? I know of no author--particularly of modern vintage--who goes into such exquisite detail describing the human face and physiognomy. Fleming is unparalleled in this area, IMO.

    I agree. The physical descriptions in books by other authors pale in comparison to the Master, Ian Fleming.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Here's one i came up with when i earlier today read CR again.

    The Poker game in the film is more tense and better executed then the Baccarat game in the book.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    I certainly think they're closely matched, MrBond. Both instantiations are extremely well executed.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    MrBond wrote:
    Here's one i came up with when i earlier today read CR again.

    The Poker game in the film is more tense and better executed then the Baccarat game in the book.

    One thing I love about Fleming is how he can make simple descriptions of a card game more exciting than any full contact sport. I remember being really impressed by the Baccarat game when I first read CR.

  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    Here's one i came up with when i earlier today read CR again.

    The Poker game in the film is more tense and better executed then the Baccarat game in the book.

    One thing I love about Fleming is how he can make simple descriptions of a card game more exciting than any full contact sport. I remember being really impressed by the Baccarat game when I first read CR.

    Yeah well the Baccarat game in the book is certainly top-notch. It is very exciting material, but the film version trumps it.

  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited May 2014 Posts: 14,824
    Here is one of my controversial opinions, stated in different threads: the continuations of Fleming are glorified fanfics of only anecdotal, if any, importance, that can be ignored altogether.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,564
    Ludovico wrote:
    Here is one of my controversial opinions, stated in different threads: the continuations of Fleming are glorified fanfics of only anecdotal, if any, importance, that can be ignored altogether.

    Not so controversial IMHO. I ignore them as a standard policy.
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,895
    MrBond wrote:
    Yeah well the Baccarat game in the book is certainly top-notch. It is very exciting material, but the film version trumps it.

    No way. The film version was comparatively dull and kept getting interrupted by Mathis explaining things to Vesper. That's the problem with poker, whereas baccarat is a simple game that can explained within a minute, leaving the reader to enjoy Bond and LeChiffre's card duel on their own.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Goldfinger is the best Bond novel.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Revelator wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    Yeah well the Baccarat game in the book is certainly top-notch. It is very exciting material, but the film version trumps it.

    No way. The film version was comparatively dull and kept getting interrupted by Mathis explaining things to Vesper. That's the problem with poker, whereas baccarat is a simple game that can explained within a minute, leaving the reader to enjoy Bond and LeChiffre's card duel on their own.

    Kept getting interrupted? Like two or three three-second cut-aways? Didn't bother me in the slightest. The card sequence is one of the very greatest extended segments in all Bond.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    Goldfinger is the best Bond novel.

    One could make a stronger case for it being the worst Bond novel.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    Goldfinger is the best Bond novel.

    One could make a stronger case for it being the worst Bond novel.

    That is why it is controversial. My opinions often are, but I am sure no one noticed before.
  • Villiers53Villiers53
    Posts: 802
    'Colonel Sun' is better than all Fleming's Bond books save OHMSS, FRWL, MR!
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,500
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    Goldfinger is the best Bond novel.

    If it hadn't been for the lame ending I would agree. But that spoils it for me...

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    jobo wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    Goldfinger is the best Bond novel.

    If it hadn't been for the lame ending I would agree. But that spoils it for me...

    What is lame abut it, dear trønder?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Revelator wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    Yeah well the Baccarat game in the book is certainly top-notch. It is very exciting material, but the film version trumps it.

    No way. The film version was comparatively dull and kept getting interrupted by Mathis explaining things to Vesper. That's the problem with poker, whereas baccarat is a simple game that can explained within a minute, leaving the reader to enjoy Bond and LeChiffre's card duel on their own.

    I love both the film and book sequences. Both Fleming and Campbell and his crew respectively made simple card games just as exciting and tense as an action set piece.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Villiers53 wrote:
    'Colonel Sun' is better than all Fleming's Bond books save OHMSS, FRWL, MR!

    I still need to get a hold of this. My no.1 priority in the Bond world.
  • jobojobo
    edited May 2014 Posts: 7,500
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    jobo wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    Goldfinger is the best Bond novel.

    If it hadn't been for the lame ending I would agree. But that spoils it for me...

    What is lame abut it, dear trønder?

    I just find it to be a dissatisfying climax after all that build up. And call me stuffy and sensitive, but I'm not mad about the "lesbian sub plot" either. Not to mention the inplausibilities of Goldfinger's plan as a whole. It's just... meh...

    But I would say the rest of the book contains some of the best passages Fleming ever wrote.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Villiers53 wrote:
    'Colonel Sun' is better than all Fleming's Bond books save OHMSS, FRWL, MR!

    Upon my one reading, I was not terribly impressed. I have no strong desire to read CS again, but have read all of the Flemings many times.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    jobo wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    Goldfinger is the best Bond novel.

    If it hadn't been for the lame ending I would agree. But that spoils it for me...

    Yes, the final third of the book makes the film DAD look like a Brian Lamb interview on CSPAN.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    jobo wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    jobo wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    Goldfinger is the best Bond novel.

    If it hadn't been for the lame ending I would agree. But that spoils it for me...

    What is lame abut it, dear trønder?

    I just find it to be a dissatisfying climax after all that build up. And call me stuffy and sensitive, but I'm not mad about the "lesbian sub plot" either. Not to mention the inplausibilities of Goldfinger's plan as a whole. It's just... meh...

    But I would say the rest of the book contains some of the best passages Fleming ever wrote.

    Lesbian subplots and implausibilities should be in every book, they are even in the bible, but glad you enjoy the rest of the book. The beginning is the best ever besides Casino Royale.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,500
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    jobo wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    jobo wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    Goldfinger is the best Bond novel.

    If it hadn't been for the lame ending I would agree. But that spoils it for me...

    What is lame abut it, dear trønder?

    I just find it to be a dissatisfying climax after all that build up. And call me stuffy and sensitive, but I'm not mad about the "lesbian sub plot" either. Not to mention the inplausibilities of Goldfinger's plan as a whole. It's just... meh...

    But I would say the rest of the book contains some of the best passages Fleming ever wrote.

    Lesbian subplots and implausibilities should be in every book, they are even in the bible, but glad you enjoy the rest of the book. The beginning is the best ever besides Casino Royale.

    Yes, you should add it to this thread: http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/9500/james-bond-story-add-one-sentence#Item_12
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,770
    Solo is by in large boring (an I am only on page 130)
    Carte Blance was ok but it Should of been better
    Devil May Care is Bad but is not as bad as solo

    Can we just have modern spy thrillers featuring 007 In our time is that really so bloody impossible
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    Risico007 wrote:
    Solo is by in large boring (an I am only on page 130)
    Carte Blance was ok but it Should of been better
    Devil May Care is Bad but is not as bad as solo

    Can we just have modern spy thrillers featuring 007 In our time is that really so bloody impossible

    This is why Charles Cumming should write the next continuation novel.
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,895
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Kept getting interrupted? Like two or three three-second cut-aways? Didn't bother me in the slightest. The card sequence is one of the very greatest extended segments in all Bond.

    They were considerably longer than that--long enough to be annoying interruptions in what was already the most tedious gaming sequence in the Bond films. A more imaginative director could have done wonders with the original baccarat match.
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    Revelator wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Kept getting interrupted? Like two or three three-second cut-aways? Didn't bother me in the slightest. The card sequence is one of the very greatest extended segments in all Bond.

    They were considerably longer than that--long enough to be annoying interruptions in what was already the most tedious gaming sequence in the Bond films. A more imaginative director could have done wonders with the original baccarat match.

    Perhaps, but let's face it - Campell and imagination is probably what one calls an oxymoron.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Revelator wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Kept getting interrupted? Like two or three three-second cut-aways? Didn't bother me in the slightest. The card sequence is one of the very greatest extended segments in all Bond.

    They were considerably longer than that--long enough to be annoying interruptions in what was already the most tedious gaming sequence in the Bond films. A more imaginative director could have done wonders with the original baccarat match.

    Pah. It was a masterpiece and has been recognized as such by many a critic. That a director could make a bleedin' card game, for Christ's sake, the very essence of a static event, as intense and riveting as Campbell did is a testament to his skill and the quality of the acting.

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