Batman

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  • Posts: 2,895
    Christmas shopping alert! The blu-ray set of Batman: The Animated Series is on sale for $42 at Amazon.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,109
    Some Batman material to look forward to next year.
    https://www.cbr.com/geoff-johns-batman-three-jokers-earth-one-vol-3/

    Batman Earth One is one of my favorite Batman stories.
  • Posts: 9,770
    interesting
  • Posts: 9,770
    it's not batman 1989 the comic book series but screw it I am in
  • Posts: 2,895
    "Dini and Burnett will be writing the digital-first series, which will be illustrated by Ty Templeton"

    That's all my wallet needed to hear.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    I don't come on here often, but as I was out walking the dog today, listening to a Batman Podcast, I started putting together my list of Top Ten All-Timne Favorite Batman Writers. I believe I did this on here years ago (artists too). Anyway, here is my update list.

    Top Ten Batman Writers
    1. Denny O'Neal - I don't see myself ever changing on this one. Denny, along with the legendary Neal Adams (who will end up in the first or second spot when I update my Batman Artists list), brought Batman back to his roots in 1970. He continued to pen many of my favorite Batman stories (as well as edit the line) for the next 40 years.
    2. Chuck Dixon - In the '90s Chuck Dixon wrote and/or oversaw the Batman Family through some of it's greatest, tightly woven storylines; Nightfall, Bane, and much more. His work on BATMAN, ROBIN, CATWOMAN and NIGHTWING was consistently excellent.
    3. Bob Haney - Crazy and dopey and insane, I love his incarnation of Batman, and how it didn't change over 15 years regardleess of how the character was being portrayed in other books. His Batman, is often unpredictable, forgetful and inept. The hundred or so issues of THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD that he created with the great Jim Aparo (who will end up in the first or second spot when I update my Batman Artists list)
    4. Jeff Loeb - Not always my favorite comic book writer, but his work on HUSH (despite a few hiccups), in various Batman titles and the HALLOWEEN series is so strong, and understands the characters at such a deep level, that he gets a high spot.
    5. Frank Miller - Sure, he wrote some insane, even crappy Batman stories in the later half of his career, but the monuments, and sheer masterpieces, that are THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and BATMAN: YEAR ONE elevate him to top tier status. That was a great time to be buying comic books.
    6. Grant Morrison - I had my doubts at the time (Death of Batman still doesn't sit well with me), but taken on it's own, without the hype, Grant Morrison's run on BATMAN and BATMAN AND ROBIN (I'll ignore FINAL CRISIS) is fantastic. Absolutely nail-biting.
    7. Mike W. Barr - Forgotten by many modern fans and critics, this was the guy who gave us a harder and darker Batman several years before Miller got his hands on the character. Great runs on BATMAN, THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD, BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS (which he co-created), along with his finest work, the graphic novel SON OF THE DEMON, and it's strong sequel BRIDE OF THE DEMON, earn him a place on my list.
    8. Peter J. Tomasi - One of my favorite writers at DC going on two decades now. Despite not receiving near as much press and glory, I find his work on BATMAN AND ROBIN, SUPER-SONS and, now, DETECTIVE COMICS, is as good as any of his contemporaries.
    9. Paul Dini - I love most all of his Batman work both in comics and on television. His writing and the style he infused in the animated series give us one of the most pure and basic iterations of the character.
    10 - Still working on it.


    Honorable Mention
    Bob Kane/Bill Finger - Creating the character counts for a lot, but the writing itself was fairly primitive.
    Steve Englehart - The work he did with artist Marshall Rogers in the 'Late '70s could be considered the second great resurgence in the Batman's history. A return to the roots.
    Alan Moore - As perfect and relatively important as THE KILLING JOKE is, that alone and a few brief Dark Knight appearances in SUPERMAN and SWAMP THING are not enough get Moore on the all-time greats list.
    Doug Moench - Great runs in the '80s and '90s, but overshadowed by Dixon.
    Tom King - A year ago I would have put him on my Top Ten, with the impressive and engaging work on BATMAN, but now that I'm 70 issues in, I'm pretty burned out on his take. Very repetitive and long stretches of uncomfortably cheesy inner conflicts.

    How about you @BeatlesSansEarmuffs ?

    Sorry I'm coming so late to this conversation. Better late than never, I suppose.

    To my mind, counting anyone other than Bill Finger as the Number One Batman writer is similar to counting anyone other than Ian Fleming as the Top James Bond writer. Comparing the sophistication of Finger's writing to work done in the '70s and beyond is like comparing apples to oranges. Compare Finger's writing to that done by Jerry Siegel on Superman in 1939 or Joe Simon & Jack Kirby on Captain America in 1940. I think you'll find that Finger comes off quite well when placed alongside his contemporaries.

    While @Revelator is correct in mentioning Don Cameron's work in the '50s, I'd urge all concerned to also consider the efforts of John Broome & Gardner Fox on the pre-camp "New Look" Batman of the mid-'60s. Gardner Fox particularly needs to be examined here, one of the earliest "pure" comic book writers of the late '30s and beyond (which is to say, he was enlisted by DC's editors AS A WRITER FOR THEIR COMIC BOOKS quite early on in the field's history, rather than coming in already paired with an artist like Finger with Kane or Siegel with Joe Shuster) Fox was the first writer other than Finger to script the Batman -- and in fact, was the first writer to put a "Baterang" into Batman's hand. Simply starting a list of the "Best" Batman writers with work done circa 1970 is totally discounting the work of those who were most effective in formulating and developing the character. One is of course entirely welcome to use whatever criteria one likes to develop a list of "my favorites."

    Additionally, I'd urge all considering this topic to realize the power wielded by DC's editors throughout most of the line's history. Vin Sullivan saw the impact a character like the Joker could have and made a point of keeping him around to come back again & again & again. Finger & Kane killed the Joker off in his second appearance (both of Mr. J's 1st & 2nd appearances occurred in BATMAN #1.) Sullivan said, essentially, "Are you guys crazy?" and directed the creators to let Joker live. And so it was done. The continued reappearances of Batman's cast of villains can thus be placed to some degree at the feet of Mr. Sullivan. Let us then consider Julius Schwartz, who took charge of the character in the mid-sixties, when Batman was very near to being cancelled altogether. Schwartz had already been successful in his revisions of the Flash, Green Lantern, and the Justice League... so Editorial Director Irwin Donenfeld put the failing Batmagazines into Schwartz's hands, and within a couple of years, a Schwartz-edited comic book was in the right hands at the right time, and the Batman TV show was born. Schwartz edited the Bat-titles for a few decades after that, choosing writers like O'Neill, Englehart, Wein, etc., to be shepherds of the character's fortunes. Credit where credit is due, and at DC, the editors were very much in charge of specific characters.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
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  • Posts: 698
    I finished re-watching the Dark Knight trilogy and I honestly must say I think the Dark Knight Rises is my favourite Batman film. Despite several plot holes, I find it an interesting look into where Bruce Wayne and Jim Gordon are after the end of the Dark Knight. It's a beautifully shot film, despite establishing shots looking too much like New York. I find Anne Hathaway to be a nice addition to the cast, and both Talia and Bane were great villains for this final installment. The last 30 mins, where Batman is chasing down the bomb in the 'bat' is one of the most intense and stressful chases in recent memory, where you genuinely don't know if Batman will win or lose. Despite it's length, I find this to be the most re-watchable of Nolan's 3 movies.
  • Posts: 9,770
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    awesome
  • Posts: 7,653
    I reserve judgement until I have actually seen the movie.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 2020 Posts: 5,869
    I cannot wait for this film.

    While others may have seen Affleck's Batman as the Batman they wanted, this is the Batman I've been waiting for. It seems to me so far to be a mixture between Nolan and Burton in terms of style and tone, whiqh is right up my street - and not to mention that the cast is incredible.

    I just hope this film is a success so we can stick with it.

    By the way people who want as many updates about the film as possible.

    Watch Heavy Spoilers on YouTube. Great coverage.

  • Posts: 9,770
    hoping we get a good game and film soon...


    there is also a rumored tell tale season 3 in the works
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,494

    wow. Was that a natural slur, or....?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    15 years ago today...

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    ... Batman Begins was released in North American theaters.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,109
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,544
    I have lifted this post by @BT3366 from another thread (the RIP thread)...
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Sadly, Schumacher will likely always be judged by his two Batman movies. A non-fanboy opinion, I personally really like Batman Forever, much more than Batman Returns, which seems very much overrated in fan communities.

    ... just to say that I am inclined to agree. I wouldn't say I like BF "much" more than BR, but I think it's the stronger movie in some regards (though not in others). However, I too find BR overrated and I wanted to support @BT3366 in that opinion.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,109
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I have lifted this post by @BT3366 from another thread (the RIP thread)...
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Sadly, Schumacher will likely always be judged by his two Batman movies. A non-fanboy opinion, I personally really like Batman Forever, much more than Batman Returns, which seems very much overrated in fan communities.

    ... just to say that I am inclined to agree. I wouldn't say I like BF "much" more than BR, but I think it's the stronger movie in some regards (though not in others). However, I too find BR overrated and I wanted to support @BT3366 in that opinion.

    Batman Returns is a Tim Burton movie that happens to have Batman in it. It’s just too Tim Burton-y and depressing for me. It was a sign of things to come in TB’s career. Plus, I’ve never been a big fan of The Penguin (other Burgess Meredith and Earth-One) honestly. The one comics based character TAS got wrong.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,544
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I have lifted this post by @BT3366 from another thread (the RIP thread)...
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Sadly, Schumacher will likely always be judged by his two Batman movies. A non-fanboy opinion, I personally really like Batman Forever, much more than Batman Returns, which seems very much overrated in fan communities.

    ... just to say that I am inclined to agree. I wouldn't say I like BF "much" more than BR, but I think it's the stronger movie in some regards (though not in others). However, I too find BR overrated and I wanted to support @BT3366 in that opinion.

    Batman Returns is a Tim Burton movie that happens to have Batman in it. It’s just too Tim Burton-y and depressing for me. It was a sign of things to come in TB’s career. Plus, I’ve never been a big fan of The Penguin (other Burgess Meredith and Earth-One) honestly. The one comics based character TAS got wrong.

    I hadn't seen a really convincing Penguin (apart from several incarnations in the comics) until I played Arkham City. Meredith and DeVito weren't bad, don't get me wrong: both have their charms. But I never quite 'felt' it. Then again, is the Penguin a shrewd businessman or an animal or both?
  • Posts: 2,895
    Batman Forever is a very forgettable film: bland Batman, blander robin, generic music, garish set-designs, and one of the worst-ever versions of Two Face. Carrey's Riddler isn't much better (Frank Gorshin was manic and scary). Schumacher never understood that camp has to be played straight to succeed.

    Batman Returns, like every good Bat-film, is a very individual vision of the character that lives up to his pulp-gothic roots, and managed to turn Catwoman and the Penguin from gimmick characters to psychologically damaged lost souls. Great as Batman: the Animated Series was, it didn't produce equally strong versions of those characters.

    Batman Forever is stuck between trying to retain some of the Burton films' darkness and neuroticism and anticipating the witless camp and pageantry of Batman & Robin. It's neither fish nor foul.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited June 2020 Posts: 23,544
    I have never gotten the whole "darkness" thing with the Burton films but perhaps that's because the word can be interpreted in different ways. Obviously, Burton's films were a lot darker than anything with Adam West had been, but are they aesthetically dark, thematically dark, tonally dark? I suppose BR is thematically dark, the search for the inner animal in all of us, what with the cat versus the bat versus the cold Arctic creature (look, "penguin" sounds too cute, okay? :) ). But Burton's films slip into camp too, not as much as the '60s Batman or the Schumacher Batman, but it was there, especially in BR. I do very much love Keaton's take on Batman; it's one of the strong points of the film for me. But as mentioned by others, it's Burton making a Burton film. Even the score is more concerned with delivering "Burton" than "Batman" in BR. That's where the film loses points for me.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034
    Revelator wrote: »
    generic music

    Never heard a Goldenthal score being described as generic before!
  • Posts: 2,895
    Burton's films are aesthetically dark (Gotham looks like an oppressive hellscape) and thematically dark (Penguin wants to murder every first-born in Gotham) but they're not humorless or self-important, which might prompt the inaccurate description of their gallows humor as camp (which renders everything it touches ridiculous and unbelievable). The Nolan-Batman films were just as much Nolan making Nolan films, so I disregard the complaint that BR is an auteurist project. Any artist with a distinctive personality has his own vision of the material.
    I'm not sure I understand your complaint about the score. Elfman doesn't use the Batman theme as much in the first film and tends to go for a lower-key macabre mood more suited to the Catwoman and Penguin's twistedstories.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,494
    I’m not sure if this is old news here: Michael Keaton is in talks to reprise Batman in several films starting with the troubled Flash film; its the kick off of the multi-verse and potentially has something to do with Flash going back in time to save his mother.

    As a fan of Keaton’s Batman, I am very excited. However, they seem to
    Be in talks about several films and signing on the dotted line is quite a bit from happening.

    Fingers crossed.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,327
    peter wrote: »
    I’m not sure if this is old news here: Michael Keaton is in talks to reprise Batman in several films starting with the troubled Flash film; its the kick off of the multi-verse and potentially has something to do with Flash going back in time to save his mother.

    As a fan of Keaton’s Batman, I am very excited. However, they seem to
    Be in talks about several films and signing on the dotted line is quite a bit from happening.

    Fingers crossed.

    We have been talking about it in the DC thread, personally I am excited the thought of Keaton's Batman's Gotham being realised again sold me immediately.
  • Posts: 1,883
    Now that's an interesting idea regarding Keaton. I've been a fan of the guy for nearly 40 years. He was the commencement speaker a couple of years ago at my daughter's college graduation and he was excellent and ended the speech with "And let me leave you with one last thing...I'm Batman!" It was perfect.
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