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My facetiousness fell on stony ground. I wasn't really advocating that lard-arses should be actively confronted with their morbid obesity. In general, wobble-bottoms are already well aware of their chunky status - to bring it up insensitively would indeed be rude, of course.
I was inviting a comparrisson with theists who
a. tell you that they're theists - (so they've brought the subject into the open).
and
b. not accept that their theism betrays a simple mind. You can test this easily by using rational argument with a theist. If they give up or refuse to engage it's indicative of weak reasoning. On the other hand if they think about it for a bit and have a bit of a brain, chances are they'll be an atheist in no time.
'Not accept that their theism betrays a simple mind' - that's just my point. A, they wouldn't accept it and B, would most likely be offended by being labeled a simple mind. As previously stated I'm not catholic and im not jumping up and down over the new pope, I really don't care, but I won't label someone as having a simple mind just because the choose to follow a faith or belief. That's the thing about faith, it something someone chooses to believe in which doesn't sit well with the reasoned arguments of atheists.
Personally, I believe in lots of crazy stuff, like reincarnation, a universal spirit, karma, and the like. Prick me on this subject, do I not bleed? Eh, not really. So, believe that Jesus (a really cool dude IMO) was the Son of God, or that the new Pope is a Latino, or that I'm a dopey neo-Buddhist moron, whatever.
Just don't say Dalton was a BAD BOND!!!!! That's what would rile me! >:/
Ah, the religion of Dalton. How cool would that church be?
I'd happily dedicate my life to that religion.
Fair enough. We must agree to differ. But I do wonder where you draw the line in having reverence for people's beliefs. Are there any political beliefs, for instance, that you'd call someone out for holding?
That's not culturally sensitive, yo. Next you'll be saying that Crom lives beneath your god....
Yes, you make a fair point also, definitely a line is always drawn somewhere from anyones own perspective, including mine for both religious and political beliefs.
For argument sake, I won't ridicule someone who is a socialist or someone who is a capitalist. A fascist, who's agenda is hate against someone else that doesn't fit their ideology... I would happily ridicule their beliefs.
Yeah cause helping the poor devloping modern medicine helping the disenfranchised horrible rbbish that stuff is
Won't go any further on this, some things are not meant to be discussed ;)
DV, are you an elitist, is that it? Yes... you probably feel you are superiour to those folk that beat & cover up their women according to their religious beliefs. Or those that blow themselves & others up to gain favour with their god. Religion, sir, is the cornerstone of the economic force which fuels the military industrial complex, which in turn makes your bed safe at night! The Spanish Inquisition gets a VERY bad rap due to Monty Python, and... uhh.... I guess I'm failing at this attempt at Devil's Advocate nonsense here....
Never mind.
Actually the reasoned arguments are by scientists not atheists. You know? Those people who study for years and conduct experiments to draw conclusions based on observation and evidence rather than just read stuff from a medieval book.
I can understand peasants in African and South American wildernesses clinging to all this but how can anyone who lives in a country with mains electricity and access to a Costa Coffee not be held up as simple minded for having blind 'faith'.
If someone jumped off a cliff but before they went said 'Its alright I believe there's a god watching over me who will enable me to fly' would you say they were:
a) Someone who should be respected and entitled to their beliefs
or
b) as nutty as a squirrels stools after an acorn vindaloo and 10 pints of lager?
I can't even believe we still have to have this conversation in this day and age.
Peter Sutcliffe 'believed' God told him to go and kill 15 prostitutes with a hammer and a screwdriver. Should we respect that or lock him up? Is misunderstood Pete entitled to his 'faith'?
Jesus Christ (no pun intended - its just a default swear word which comes as a legacy of being brought up in an ostensibly Christian society.)
I prefer "Heysoos Marimba!" -Joker, 1989
And I would agree with you there. But we know that fascism, racism, sexism etc. have all been socially acceptable in the not too distant past. Probably there are societies now where such viewpoints are still current and valid.
I agree with you that making a distinction between the harmless and the hateful is a good place to start, but I've come to think that theism is not necessarily benign.
There are obvious examples of theistic harm - all religions indoctrinate their youth; some Jews mutilate their children in the name of their religion; some Christians cite the bible in advocating discrimination against women and gays; the brutality of aspects of Sharia law and so on.
I just go a bit further and ask theists to think about whether their beliefs really are harmless let alone rational..
Yet you are quite simple minded here are some names of people who are in the scientific comunity yet are clearly Christian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_C._Meyer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lane_Craig
2 names who drops in a buckett. I assure you we are all not insane bible thumpers I am a devout christian who Knows more about the flaws in evolution then you but I could discuss how Neanderthal Man is a pigs tooth and Lucy is a deformed chimp but why point out that I am well versed in Science rather You calims christians are evil yet again Here is a list for you
http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/
I would Love to hear you response wait I will say it for you "well there are billiosn of dumb christians in the world" perhaps but we never caused a global war for spite... twice (Napoleon and Mussolini) actually... And before you bring up the Inquistion I think we both can agree as dark a time as it was (Hey I don't accus you of agreeing with everything that has been done in the name of atheism in the past 4000 years I would prefer you don't think I agree with everyhting that has been done in the name of christ in spite of it going clearly against his teaching) The Napolionic Wars and World War 2 both caused for more death and destruction then anything christians have done.
But yeah Religion is evil we should follow great men of Aethism like Napoleo... I mean Musso... Jim Jo.... yeah or we can each make up our own mind of whose voice we should follow Me I'll take a simple carpenter who promoted peace love and happyness over anything else.
Oh and i saw Anon's comment Anon I know a girl a lesbian who is also a Catholic I assure you she has more faith in God then Wizard or you have in science in my opinon she is the ideal all christians should look to has she simply has blind faith and I love her (like a sister) for it and will defend her to any so called priest or pastor in my opinion she will go to heaven.
Quite possibly. But it's quality not quantity.
She might go to heaven - I grant you that. Unlikely that there even is a heaven of course, but we just don't know so I can't quibble with your opinion.
However, you'd agree that she definitely won't make Pope will she? Even though she's the ideal for all christians. And you're OK with that?
Sorry, Firefly quote. :))
yeah but I feel without the whole Son of God thing your kind of missing the point its like saying for it to be a good bond film you need a gunbarrel at the beginning oh wait a minute
oh and let me guess you think Thomas Jefferson was brilliant right?
Never said I was I'm a lutheran remember we don't care about the pope Personally I will say this if God came down and demanded a Female Pope some Holy Rollers would complain and be upset by this I would not of course because I just wouldn't but that is just me
as for Quality of faith let me tell you one of my favorite quotes forget the scientist who says it and am to lazy to do a google search "Modern day science is the most aggrivating thing as it is like climbing a giant mountain and when you get to the top understanding and being knowledgeable you find a Christian who has been there all along."
Again for me it's the most simpliest answer is usually the correct one and looking into CS Lewis Liar Lunatic or Lord question the answer to me is bluntly obvious. Lord plain and simple
Atheism is a lack of belief in god. Your god, their god, anyone's god or gods. It doesn't mean Anti-theist. An atheist is not necessarily anti-religion any more than someone who doesn't collect stamps is necessarily phobic of those who do.
The wars you mention were not waged "in the name of atheism" - it's nonsensical. In any case, Hitler was Catholic and cited the bible in his writings.
As someone smarter than me said, "good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but to make a good person do a bad thing you need religion".
Let's just cut out the middle-man then. Give research grants to churches and those new drugs, power sources, and quantum-level discoveries will be coming thick and fast.
Atheism doesn't have an agenda or creed so I don't see how anything can happen or be done "in spite of atheism". Again, it doesn't make any sense to say this.
You think lack of belief in a god is somehow meant to prevent human conflict?