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James Bond - Cunning Linguist

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That is very cunning linguistics.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    One tries ......
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,965
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Well, I checked it now and he does indeed clearly say "Guten Abend" and not the similar "goedenavond". He also says "bitte" opening the door for Franks. But I still don't think this is a goof by the writers or director, but he's pretending to be German and not knowing enough English ("Who...is...your floor?").

    Well that's just the thing. 'Franks' in no way, shape or form could be a German name, for that would be 'Frank'. Either given or family name.

    And at random a German smuggler, meant to smuggle South-African diamonds from Amsterdam to the US? Makes no sense? why would they smuggle them t Amsterdam if not because they found a smuggler there.

    And even a German trying to blend in in Amsterdam would try, certainly at that time, to speak Dutch. The Germans weren't very popular here in the seventies.

    The 'who is... your floor' makes it even worse, as it in no way would be something a poorly English speaking German or Dutchman would say. They would say something of the likes 'which floor is you' or 'on which floor must you be on' (latter definately Dutch).

    I think, considering all the other sloppy mistakes, this is just a case of ignorance.

    (@j_w_Pepper impressed by your knowledge of Dutch btw ;-) )
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,778
    I do think they meant him to act like a German. Guten Abend might sound similar as goedenavond but 'G' is a fricative consonant in Dutch while it is an occlusive sound in German. Bond uses the latter pronunciation. He also says Abend instead of avond.

    Furthermore, Bond saying the German bitte instead of the Dutch alstublieft clearly indicates he is meant to be impersonating a German.

    Just how I always interpreted it anyway ;).
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,676
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    (@j_w_Pepper impressed by your knowledge of Dutch btw ;-) )
    Dank je wel. In 2000, I was seconded to Rotterdam for four months. I didn't manage to learn Dutch during that time (working language was English), but certainly picked up bits and pieces and basic pronunciation rules.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,965
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I do think they meant him to act like a German. Guten Abend might sound similar as goedenavond but 'G' is a fricative consonant in Dutch while it is an occlusive sound in German. Bond uses the latter pronunciation. He also says Abend instead of avond.

    Furthermore, Bond saying the German bitte instead of the Dutch alstublieft clearly indicates he is meant to be impersonating a German.

    Just how I always interpreted it anyway ;).

    Well that leaves the big question: why German? To me that makes no sense at all.
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    (@j_w_Pepper impressed by your knowledge of Dutch btw ;-) )
    Dank je wel. In 2000, I was seconded to Rotterdam for four months. I didn't manage to learn Dutch during that time (working language was English), but certainly picked up bits and pieces and basic pronunciation rules.
    Still think that's very considerate of you. As most Dutch speak at least a decent level of English, and considering their habit of wanting to try it out at every opportunity, means you actually have to make an effort to pick up the language. So still, goed gedaan! ;-)
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,676
    Reminds me that I have to re-read the few Kuifje comics I bought while in Rotterdam to, uhm, brush up on a little Dutch. Now I know that Jansen & Janssen is the same as Thomson & Thompson, Schulze & Schultze and Dupond & Dupont.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,104
    A Scottish friend recently gave me this. It was surprisingly difficult! ('Nisbet and Nesbit' here, if you're collecting them.)

    19209170.jpg
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,676
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    A Scottish friend recently gave me this. It was surprisingly difficult! ('Nisbet and Nesbit' here, if you're collecting them.)

    19209170.jpg
    Thanks. Now that sounds intriguing! I love the sound of Scottish. Have to get me a copy of one of the books.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited February 2017 Posts: 6,778
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I do think they meant him to act like a German. Guten Abend might sound similar as goedenavond but 'G' is a fricative consonant in Dutch while it is an occlusive sound in German. Bond uses the latter pronunciation. He also says Abend instead of avond.

    Furthermore, Bond saying the German bitte instead of the Dutch alstublieft clearly indicates he is meant to be impersonating a German.

    Just how I always interpreted it anyway ;).

    Well that leaves the big question: why German? To me that makes no sense at all.

    Amsterdam is a world city, I'm sure a few Germans could be around there as well ;)
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,676
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I do think they meant him to act like a German. Guten Abend might sound similar as goedenavond but 'G' is a fricative consonant in Dutch while it is an occlusive sound in German. Bond uses the latter pronunciation. He also says Abend instead of avond.

    Furthermore, Bond saying the German bitte instead of the Dutch alstublieft clearly indicates he is meant to be impersonating a German.

    Just how I always interpreted it anyway ;).

    Well that leaves the big question: why German? To me that makes no sense at all.

    Amsterdam is a world city, I'm sure a few Germans could be around there as well ;)
    He certainly wouldn't have passed for a Dutchman, and he didn't want to disclose to Franks that he was English, either. So might as well be German since he at least knew some words, apparently.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,568
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Well, I checked it now and he does indeed clearly say "Guten Abend" and not the similar "goedenavond". He also says "bitte" opening the door for Franks. But I still don't think this is a goof by the writers or director, but he's pretending to be German and not knowing enough English ("Who...is...your floor?").

    Well that's just the thing. 'Franks' in no way, shape or form could be a German name, for that would be 'Frank'. Either given or family name.
    And at random a German smuggler, meant to smuggle South-African diamonds from Amsterdam to the US? Makes no sense? why would they smuggle them t Amsterdam if not because they found a smuggler there.

    And even a German trying to blend in in Amsterdam would try, certainly at that time, to speak Dutch. The Germans weren't very popular here in the seventies.

    The 'who is... your floor' makes it even worse, as it in no way would be something a poorly English speaking German or Dutchman would say. They would say something of the likes 'which floor is you' or 'on which floor must you be on' (latter definately Dutch).

    I think, considering all the other sloppy mistakes, this is just a case of ignorance.

    (@j_w_Pepper impressed by your knowledge of Dutch btw ;-) )

    But Bond wasn't posing as Franks at that moment.

    And there's nothing to say Franks himself would know whether 'who is your floor?' is the wrong thing to say. He isn't Dutch.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,676
    NicNac wrote: »
    But Bond wasn't posing as Franks at that moment.
    Come to think of it, you're right, of course. He's not pretending to be Franks when talking to the real Franks, so it doesn't matter if Franks is a German name or not...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,965
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    But Bond wasn't posing as Franks at that moment.
    Come to think of it, you're right, of course. He's not pretending to be Franks when talking to the real Franks, so it doesn't matter if Franks is a German name or not...

    True, didn't think of that. But still, a German in Amsterdam, especially at that time, would be more conspicuous then a Dutchman, and Franks wouldn't know the difference. For me it still feels like they just went with 'something continental' or 'not-English' instead of actually local. Hollywood has a long history of failing to understand the differences.
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