The Arc of Craig's Films (SPOILERS)

edited November 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 1,092
I think the most brilliant thing they've done is finish the character arc they began in CR. It's amazing.

Many people, myself included, complained about Brosnan's films being too clichéd and formulaic in execution; it was like, this is a bloody Bond film, people! We have to have gadgets and him in a tux and martinis shaken not stirred and a wild villain and on and on. It got stale very fast and the series felt like it was on cruise control through the 90's.

When the reboot happened, who knew at the time they would have the courage and fortitude to strip down the series to its most basic form and then rebuild, to dole out the familiar elements SLOWLY and with great care and patience over time, six freaking years and three films! Crazy. They got hit for that; people moaned about QoS not being Bondian enough but thy had to do it this way. They had to clean out the old, stale formula and rebuild, no, they have REINVENTED Bond and the series is off and running now, back to basics but full on Classic Bond.

Who didn't get chills when Craig was brought into M's office for that final scene in SF? Fiennes is the new M like many of us wanted! "With pleasure, M. With pleasure." Dang. It's on like Donkey Kong. Now he and M have a history, they have a real relationship and so do Bond and Moneypenny. When they flirt with each other in the future it will mean something now. An origin story for Moneypenny? How awesome is that? So cool.

Now Craig is fully the character he set out to become in his first film. It's unprecedented for this series and they rocked it hardcore. I'm so excited for the future and what this means for us hardcore fans. They could toss away the first 20 films, it's like all of them have been condensed into this new series with Craig, distilled and made pure. Just so much awesomeness happening here it's hard to get my head around it.
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Comments

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    I wouldn't agree with tossing away the first 20 films - no matter how much flak some of the films get, I wouldn't get rid of a single one - but I did like how SF set everything up, so Craig's Bond will be at his peak come 'Bond 24': new M - who, like you said, he has a history with, Q has been introduced, and he and Moneypenny (now existent in Craig's world of Bond) had a history. Should be very interesting.
  • I really admire the fact that instead of using CR for the reboot and then having "cookie-cutter" films after that they instead went with a slow progression over many films. This way there's always more to look forward to and the films don't get repetitive too quickly. I know some people have gotten impatient with this approach ("I want CLASSIC Bond and I want it two films ago!") but I really like that they're building a true film series.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    I really admire the fact that instead of using CR for the reboot and then having "cookie-cutter" films after that they instead went with a slow progression over many films. This way there's always more to look forward to and the films don't get repetitive too quickly. I know some people have gotten impatient with this approach ("I want CLASSIC Bond and I want it two films ago!") but I really like that they're building a true film series.

    You and I both. I quite enjoy the slow progression. My only worry is that they'll continue to nail down the films, and something will happen years from now that makes them want to return and do yet another reboot, and before we know it, they churn those out every time the films underperform, giving us an incredibly awkward timeline.
  • Posts: 6,601
    More humour was already intended for QOS, but they didn't have a good enough sript to do it. So - the process was slowed down a bit by QOS.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,310
    Great post, @The_Reaper, and I mostly agree with you. The progression of the Daniel Craig films was quite superb and even though I didn't care for Quantum of Solace at all, Daniel Craig still proved that he was a competent actor all the way through. (He even almost distracted me from the fact that QOS had a rushed, incomplete script.) For me, Craig has become the best James Bond.

    I do realize that Craig is signed on for 2 more, but if Skyfall should (for some reason) be his final film, I am almost ready to say that I am contempt. But I really do want to see what else he and the gang have to offer.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,092
    SJK91 wrote:
    Great post, @The_Reaper, and I mostly agree with you. The progression of the Daniel Craig films was quite superb and even though I didn't care for Quantum of Solace at all, Daniel Craig still proved that he was a competent actor all the way through. (He even almost distracted me from the fact that QOS had a rushed, incomplete script.) For me, Craig has become the best James Bond.

    I do realize that Craig is signed on for 2 more, but if Skyfall should (for some reason) be his final film, I am almost ready to say that I am contempt. But I really do want to see what else he and the gang have to offer.

    I understand the complaints with QoS, I really do. But I like the film and with SF being what it is, an awesome compliment to his first two, it makes QoS all that much better and important to the overall progression of his character. It's like, we need QoS to fit right there in between the epic scope of both CR and SF, while still maintaining a slant toward character development. You can't have three epic films in a row, it's doesn't feel right.

    QoS is a continuation of Bond's story from CR but it's also a slam bam action movie, relentless from start to finish and we need films like that in this series, for variety's sake alone. I wonder what tone the next film will have. I think they might go the Thunderball route and have a international crisis on their hands and it will be interesting to see how Craig's Bond works with other 00's. I wanna see that.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    I'm very happy for this arc to continue as long as his films don't have a definitive end. They should end with the story set to be continued with another actor.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I wouldn't agree with tossing away the first 20 films - no matter how much flak some of the films get, I wouldn't get rid of a single one - but I did like how SF set everything up, so Craig's Bond will be at his peak come 'Bond 24': new M - who, like you said, he has a history with, Q has been introduced, and he and Moneypenny (now existent in Craig's world of Bond) had a history. Should be very interesting.

    I agree. It gave me quite a buzz. And seeing that door. They should have had Craig throwing his hat on the hat-stand. I don't care if it's out of fashion. I can imagine sells of Trilby hats going through the roof!

  • Posts: 1,092
    royale65 wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I wouldn't agree with tossing away the first 20 films - no matter how much flak some of the films get, I wouldn't get rid of a single one - but I did like how SF set everything up, so Craig's Bond will be at his peak come 'Bond 24': new M - who, like you said, he has a history with, Q has been introduced, and he and Moneypenny (now existent in Craig's world of Bond) had a history. Should be very interesting.

    I agree. It gave me quite a buzz. And seeing that door. They should have had Craig throwing his hat on the hat-stand. I don't care if it's out of fashion. I can imagine sells of Trilby hats going through the roof!

    Throwing the hat is something to look forward to for Bond 24. Make this happen! :P
  • Posts: 176
    I can't see the hat thing happening. It's way too old fashioned. Most men don't even wear those kinds of hats anymore.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited November 2012 Posts: 4,421
    Meh, who cares?

    Besides if Bond wore one, who's to say that hats wont be back in vogue?

    ;-)
  • Posts: 338
    marymoss wrote:
    I can't see the hat thing happening. It's way too old fashioned. Most men don't even wear those kinds of hats anymore.
    .

    How about a baseball cap? .....on second thoughts, perhaps not....

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    Lots of people wear fedoras and the like at my college. But, these are the people who wear dirty sneakers, torn jeans, and stained t-shirts, giving them the impression that the hat will make them look 'fashionable,' 'stylish,' and 'presentable.' It's a joke.

    The hat thing would be cool to see, but I feel it may be out of place in the 21st Century.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 299
    I really admire the fact that instead of using CR for the reboot and then having "cookie-cutter" films after that they instead went with a slow progression over many films. This way there's always more to look forward to and the films don't get repetitive too quickly. I know some people have gotten impatient with this approach ("I want CLASSIC Bond and I want it two films ago!") but I really like that they're building a true film series.

    I was one of these people. My first reaction to SF in the first 10 seconds was disappointment because I wanted the gun barrel. And though I appreciated the film, there was nonetheless a stubbornness in me that couldn't embrace it fully because I wanted "classic" Bond. I didn't think that we would still be in this introductory phase 3 films into Craig's tenure.

    Then I took a few days to meditate, process and think about the whole thing. It started to make sense, dramatically and thematically. I admired the ambition of the filmmakers. When I saw it a second time I absolutely loved it. In this new context it was indeed very powerful and rewarding. I've since seen it a third time. There's hardly anything I would change about it.

  • Posts: 1,092
    It's takes guts to do it the way they have and that's very commendable. You gotta think long term about these things. If they do it too fast then we'll find ourselves right back in the formula redundancies we had with Brosnan. Sorry but I don't want that. This is the start of the next 50 Years of Bond, Phase 2!
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 2,341
    I think Babs and MGW were hamstrung when they took over the reins during the Brosnan age. they were stuck with a "people's choice" actor and forced to paint by the numbers and the Brosnan films has not aged very well.

    It took a lot of balls for EON to reboot and the move was masterful. We get the "origins" of Bond. In CR his first mission after his newl 00 status confirmed. He is near ready to quit when he falls for Vesper only to be betrayed and he sets out to make things right in QoS

    In Skyfall, he is back in the fold but has to deal with a new threat. I liked the way they delayed introducing a Moneypenny and Q until the third film.

    I like the fact now that the flirting between Bond and Moneypenny was given a "backstory". the new take on Q as a snot-nosed geeky and annoying kid was a good move. Now we can foresee how Bond and Q's mutual dislike can take off from here.
    finally we are introduced to a new M and like mentioned earlier, he and Bond has some history/backstory as well.

    And finally the look into Bond's early life and childhood. Things that helped to mold his character.
    It all came together so beautifully.
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    Creasy47 wrote:
    but I did like how SF set everything up, so Craig's Bond will be at his peak come 'Bond 24': new M - who, like you said, he has a history with, Q has been introduced, and he and Moneypenny (now existent in Craig's world of Bond) had a history. Should be very interesting.

    I was thrilled to see where Skyfall left off. I also loved the subtle shaping and telling of Bond's childhood and past. I think its things like that that will cement Skyfall as a classic after enough time.

    I have been wondering, how long do we think the new M, Q, and Moneypenny actors will stick around. Do you think they'll be in it for the long haul like Lee, Llewelyn, and Maxwell? I'll be extremely disappointed if they do not at least finish off the remainder of the Craig films.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    @Seven_Point_Six_Five, I loved how amazing it was to hear of Bond's past, but it was subtle and not forced down your throat.

    I've wondered this two. Harris and Whishaw are pretty young, and I could see Fiennes sticking around for a good while. If they enjoyed the roles and can manage to come back, why not? Keep them in the Craig timeline, at least.
  • Posts: 1,492
    Alot of this has to do with Craig. He is the kind of actor who needs character progression to keep him interested. He is going to need az new angle on the character for each film. So he and the writers have a challenge to keep the character fresh. He is not going to be happy just turning up, collecting the cheque and saying his lines. Dalton was the same. He's an actors actor if you understand me.

    Their policy of including him in the direction of the films has paid off big time.
  • oo7oo7
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,068
    actonsteve wrote:
    Alot of this has to do with Craig. He is the kind of actor who needs character progression to keep him interested. He is going to need az new angle on the character for each film. So he and the writers have a challenge to keep the character fresh. He is not going to be happy just turning up, collecting the cheque and saying his lines. Dalton was the same. He's an actors actor if you understand me.

    Their policy of including him in the direction of the films has paid off big time.

    I am sure it was not the sizzling script that had him doing aliens v cowboys
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Seven_Point_Six_Five, I loved how amazing it was to hear of Bond's past, but it was subtle and not forced down your throat.

    I've wondered this two. Harris and Whishaw are pretty young, and I could see Fiennes sticking around for a good while. If they enjoyed the roles and can manage to come back, why not? Keep them in the Craig timeline, at least.

    a weeks work every 2-4 years
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,492
    actonsteve wrote:
    Alot of this has to do with Craig. He is the kind of actor who needs character progression to keep him interested. He is going to need az new angle on the character for each film. So he and the writers have a challenge to keep the character fresh. He is not going to be happy just turning up, collecting the cheque and saying his lines. Dalton was the same. He's an actors actor if you understand me.

    Their policy of including him in the direction of the films has paid off big time

    I am sure it was not the sizzling script that had him doing aliens v cowboys.

    Did he have any say in the direction of aliens and cowboys? Didn't think so...

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    actonsteve wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    Alot of this has to do with Craig. He is the kind of actor who needs character progression to keep him interested. He is going to need az new angle on the character for each film. So he and the writers have a challenge to keep the character fresh. He is not going to be happy just turning up, collecting the cheque and saying his lines. Dalton was the same. He's an actors actor if you understand me.

    Their policy of including him in the direction of the films has paid off big time

    I am sure it was not the sizzling script that had him doing aliens v cowboys.

    Did he have any say in the direction of aliens and cowboys? Didn't think so...

    Cowboys and Aliens was a lot of fun, at least for me. Give me another one like that any day.
    From what I know he did it because he wanted to play a cowboy and there are not that many of them around in cinema at this moment.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 6,601
    If you just read the C&A resumé, who is involved, you can read an almost Who is Who in Hollywood. I am still in disbelief, how so many talented people can come up with something so poor. Like Sandy said - for him it was all about playng a cowboy in a Hollywood film and probably believing into those people instead of reading the script properly. But then, you can say THAT of all involved,. It was just a very poor script and they should have noticed that. Why have they not? I have no idea whatsoever.

    Favreau did a way better job in promoting this fim then in making it and that goes for all involved. The actors were fine, but the script was just poor and if you ever wanna search for plotholes in a film - this is the one to go to. A terrible waste of talent. My bottom film of DC and I have seen them all.
  • Germanlady wrote:
    If you just read the C&A resumé, who is involved, you can read an almost Who is Who in Hollywood. I am still in disbelief, how so many talented people can come up with something so poor. Like Sandy said - for him it was all about playng a cowboy in a Hollywood film and probably believing into those people instead of reading the script properly. But then, you can say THAT of all involved,. It was just a very poor script and they should have noticed that. Why have they not? I have no idea whatsoever.

    Favreau did a way better job in promoting this fim then in making it and that goes for all involved. The actors were fine, but the script was just poor and if you ever wanna search for plotholes in a film - this is the one to go to. A terrible waste of talent. My bottom film of DC and I have seen them all.

    I think your being rather harsh on Cowboys and Aliens. I liked it for what it is was. But I do agree that Faverau talks a better film then he makes, he really sold the movie and the actual film he made didn't match his own hype. I think everyone on Cowboys knew it was a dud, it just had a great concept that's all. I also get the impression that becasue it had the backing of Speilberg, Grazer and Howard all their top choices would say yes, you don't say no to those guys, it's almost a courtesy call not to. However, the first 5-10minutes of Cowboys is actually pretty damn fantastic, as for the rest of the film? Underwritten mediocre action-fare, but that is not sometimes a bad thing, it's a fun movie.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Germanlady wrote:
    If you just read the C&A resumé, who is involved, you can read an almost Who is Who in Hollywood. I am still in disbelief, how so many talented people can come up with something so poor. Like Sandy said - for him it was all about playng a cowboy in a Hollywood film and probably believing into those people instead of reading the script properly. But then, you can say THAT of all involved,. It was just a very poor script and they should have noticed that. Why have they not? I have no idea whatsoever.

    Favreau did a way better job in promoting this fim then in making it and that goes for all involved. The actors were fine, but the script was just poor and if you ever wanna search for plotholes in a film - this is the one to go to. A terrible waste of talent. My bottom film of DC and I have seen them all.

    I think your being rather harsh on Cowboys and Aliens. I liked it for what it is was. But I do agree that Faverau talks a better film then he makes, he really sold the movie and the actual film he made didn't match his own hype. I think everyone on Cowboys knew it was a dud, it just had a great concept that's all. I also get the impression that becasue it had the backing of Speilberg, Grazer and Howard all their top choices would say yes, you don't say no to those guys, it's almost a courtesy call not to. However, the first 5-10minutes of Cowboys is actually pretty damn fantastic, as for the rest of the film? Underwritten mediocre action-fare, but that is not sometimes a bad thing, it's a fun movie.

    It's a very fun film. I think in these kind of films you have to go along with it and enjoy them for all their nonsense.
  • Posts: 12,506
    I think its a good idea to have a story arc now and then, as over two thirds of the Bond films are stand alone adventures. So the return of Quantum would be a welcome thing for me over the next 2 films whilst DC is still in the role.
  • RogueAgent wrote:
    I think its a good idea to have a story arc now and then, as over two thirds of the Bond films are stand alone adventures. So the return of Quantum would be a welcome thing for me over the next 2 films whilst DC is still in the role.


    I really don't think standalone adventures should occur in the Craig era. The personal and emotional is what his Bond does best, if I got anything less I'd be disappointed. The more episodic Bond adventures don’t sit too well with me, for instance LALD is a good movie but rather forgettable becasue of its episodic nature. They need to keep packing the films with plenty of heart and emotion, the best Bond's have always had that something more.
  • Posts: 12,506
    RogueAgent wrote:
    I think its a good idea to have a story arc now and then, as over two thirds of the Bond films are stand alone adventures. So the return of Quantum would be a welcome thing for me over the next 2 films whilst DC is still in the role.


    I really don't think standalone adventures should occur in the Craig era. The personal and emotional is what his Bond does best, if I got anything less I'd be disappointed. The more episodic Bond adventures don’t sit too well with me, for instance LALD is a good movie but rather forgettable becasue of its episodic nature. They need to keep packing the films with plenty of heart and emotion, the best Bond's have always had that something more.

    Could not agree more so i hope to see the return of Quantum with more quality villains like Silva. B-)
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,497
    The character arc is a refreshing take. I agree with that, and works as a 'new' approach.

    That being said, I don't think you can toss away the first 20 films. The first 20 films took the opposite approach of the Craig era: the character of Bond remains static; it's the world around him that changes. I admired this portrayal of Bond: the persona of Bond is set in stone, but it is interesting to see how he interacts in different times and environments. Bond is still Bond through it all: Cold War, psychedelic 60's, the arrival of the 70's, Disco, Space, 80's Cold War, the end of the Cold war in the 90's, big media, and so on...

    The Craig era assumes that Bond's character is changing - like I say, it's a fresh take, but I don't think the established character approach is any way an inferior approach.
  • Posts: 1,092
    JBFan626 wrote:
    The character arc is a refreshing take. I agree with that, and works as a 'new' approach.

    That being said, I don't think you can toss away the first 20 films. The first 20 films took the opposite approach of the Craig era: the character of Bond remains static; it's the world around him that changes. I admired this portrayal of Bond: the persona of Bond is set in stone, but it is interesting to see how he interacts in different times and environments. Bond is still Bond through it all: Cold War, psychedelic 60's, the arrival of the 70's, Disco, Space, 80's Cold War, the end of the Cold war in the 90's, big media, and so on...

    The Craig era assumes that Bond's character is changing - like I say, it's a fresh take, but I don't think the established character approach is any way an inferior approach.

    I agree. I should clarify what I meant about tossing the first 20 away. It's like we are in a reboot/reinvention of the franchise. It's unprecedented. And refreshing. Those first 20 served as a template but Craig's era has distilled the essence of the character and the series has been REBORN.
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