Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (30th June 2023)

1185186188190191194

Comments

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 22,769
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.

    True and I have done a lot of extra hours recently, I keep trying to tell myself I need to find a better work/training and life/recovery balance.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 968
    bondywondy sounds like a lot of men of a certain age out there who feel threatened and insecure about the world changing around them, and so go on lashing out over “wokeism”. Feels uncomfortable watching a movie about an old man who’s reached a low point in his elder years that makes him feel like he no longer belongs anywhere to the point that he’s willing to commit temporal suicide. Helena saves Indy and then immediately shows him at the end that he still has something to live for. Not just with Marion, but friend old and new and that’s what reinvigorates him. “Are you back?” “Yes.” And for the first time in all these films, he actually comes back home with the artifact of the adventure.

    That's basically the "Old Man" archetype, which has been there ever since the 1980's with The Dark Knight Returns, and, friendly reminder, nobody back then complained about Batman being a "grizzly old man" and "outshadowed by a woman".
    Bondywondy's complains are just the effects of living in a modern society.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,964
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.

    True and I have done a lot of extra hours recently, I keep trying to tell myself I need to find a better work/training and life/recovery balance.

    I know the feeling. I work in film/media but have a lot of healthcare training, and since Covid I have been balancing the two. There's not enough hours in the week as a result. I had my first holiday in four years just last week, and there's a constant sense of unnerve while trying to relax that is hard to shake.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 14,790
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.
    bondywondy sounds like a lot of men of a certain age out there who feel threatened and insecure about the world changing around them, and so go on lashing out over “wokeism”. Feels uncomfortable watching a movie about an old man who’s reached a low point in his elder years that makes him feel like he no longer belongs anywhere to the point that he’s willing to commit temporal suicide. Helena saves Indy and then immediately shows him at the end that he still has something to live for. Not just with Marion, but friend old and new and that’s what reinvigorates him. “Are you back?” “Yes.” And for the first time in all these films, he actually comes back home with the artifact of the adventure.

    Not to dispute your great point about DOD - but he did return home with the stolen stone in Temple, didn't he?

    No, he gives it back to the village when he returns with the kids. He learns there's something better than fortune and glory, which is very similar to one of the lessons Helena learns in DoD (I suspect that's why she has a kid sidekick as an intention echo of Indy in ToD).
    Among the other lessons she learns of course is that she's not self-sufficient, and indeed it's best not to be. Indy is older and has already learned this (and indeed spots that she's wrong about that), however he thinks that the people he needs to share his life with have all gone and there's nothing left for him. But just as he shows Helena that she needs family, she shows him that he does still have a family.
    But y'know: some people just see a woman and say 'woke'.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited September 2023 Posts: 7,964
    mtm wrote: »
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.
    bondywondy sounds like a lot of men of a certain age out there who feel threatened and insecure about the world changing around them, and so go on lashing out over “wokeism”. Feels uncomfortable watching a movie about an old man who’s reached a low point in his elder years that makes him feel like he no longer belongs anywhere to the point that he’s willing to commit temporal suicide. Helena saves Indy and then immediately shows him at the end that he still has something to live for. Not just with Marion, but friend old and new and that’s what reinvigorates him. “Are you back?” “Yes.” And for the first time in all these films, he actually comes back home with the artifact of the adventure.

    Not to dispute your great point about DOD - but he did return home with the stolen stone in Temple, didn't he?

    No, he gives it back to the village when he returns with the kids. He learns there's something better than fortune and glory, which is very similar to one of the lessons Helena learns in DoD.

    I thought that's what he meant by returning; as in he didn't lose it.

    Edit: but then again, he doesn't lose the Ark either. So nevermind!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 22,769
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.

    True and I have done a lot of extra hours recently, I keep trying to tell myself I need to find a better work/training and life/recovery balance.

    I know the feeling. I work in film/media but have a lot of healthcare training, and since Covid I have been balancing the two. There's not enough hours in the week as a result. I had my first holiday in four years just last week, and there's a constant sense of unnerve while trying to relax that is hard to shake.

    I can relate during Covid I worked 50 hours a week plus and refused to take time off I was totally burnt myself out.

    It is difficult when you get set in a mind set, plus I am very stubborn and don't always immediately take on board good advice with regards to myself. Running is my escape and has helped a lot and I invested in a good Garmin watch earlier in the year which has helped me take care of myself better with fitness and nutrition... occasionally I do still push myself too much.

    Switching off and relaxing is a positive habit we can get back it just takes time.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,955
    mtm wrote: »
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.
    bondywondy sounds like a lot of men of a certain age out there who feel threatened and insecure about the world changing around them, and so go on lashing out over “wokeism”. Feels uncomfortable watching a movie about an old man who’s reached a low point in his elder years that makes him feel like he no longer belongs anywhere to the point that he’s willing to commit temporal suicide. Helena saves Indy and then immediately shows him at the end that he still has something to live for. Not just with Marion, but friend old and new and that’s what reinvigorates him. “Are you back?” “Yes.” And for the first time in all these films, he actually comes back home with the artifact of the adventure.

    Not to dispute your great point about DOD - but he did return home with the stolen stone in Temple, didn't he?

    No, he gives it back to the village when he returns with the kids. He learns there's something better than fortune and glory, which is very similar to one of the lessons Helena learns in DoD.

    Right. The Helena we saw introduced at the beginning of the movie would have likely stolen it to sell off for own fortune and glory. She could have also done the right thing and turn it in at a museum, but she leaves it at Indy’s place so he’ll have that honor of turning it in himself.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 14,790
    mtm wrote: »
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.
    bondywondy sounds like a lot of men of a certain age out there who feel threatened and insecure about the world changing around them, and so go on lashing out over “wokeism”. Feels uncomfortable watching a movie about an old man who’s reached a low point in his elder years that makes him feel like he no longer belongs anywhere to the point that he’s willing to commit temporal suicide. Helena saves Indy and then immediately shows him at the end that he still has something to live for. Not just with Marion, but friend old and new and that’s what reinvigorates him. “Are you back?” “Yes.” And for the first time in all these films, he actually comes back home with the artifact of the adventure.

    Not to dispute your great point about DOD - but he did return home with the stolen stone in Temple, didn't he?

    No, he gives it back to the village when he returns with the kids. He learns there's something better than fortune and glory, which is very similar to one of the lessons Helena learns in DoD.

    I thought that's what he meant by returning; as in he didn't lose it.

    Edit: but then again, he doesn't lose the Ark either. So nevermind!

    Oh sorry, with you. I think the Dial is a bit unique as he doesn't get to keep any of them as a prize up until now, although he does certainly win them, yes.
    It's also the first one he starts out owning! One bit that I think is a bit weird is Indy tells Mason in NYC that the Antikythera is 'just an ancient hunk of gears', which is kind of weird for an archeologist, as it's actually incredibly important for being just that! I kind of get what he means: they seem to want it for some more important reason, but really if they just wanted to steal it for its monetary value, it's still more than a hunk of gears! :)
    mtm wrote: »
    My apologies if I was too negative about DOD last night, I had not slept for 36 hours and was grumpy. I do have issues with the film though one thing at the forefront of my mind is I never wanted to see one of my favorite hero's at this stage of his life and depicted the way Indy was in this film, maybe it reminds me too much of my own mortality.
    I liked the old 1930's style circle fade out though when Indy grabs the hat. Reminds me of The Sting, and also a reference to the old 1930's flicks that Lucas and Spielberg first based the films on.

    I did like that last shot it made me smile, probably my favorite moments in the film.

    That's no worries; sorry to hear you hadn't slept in so long, that's pretty horrible!
    The film certainly surprised me with it's slightly gloomier tone than the other films, but once I was past that I realised that there's a really lovely and warm story at the heart of it.

    Cheers, I work shifts as it was my last shift for a few days I thought I would try to stay awake as the weather was too good to miss and went for a long distance run, it is never a good idea when I do that especially when my sleep has not been great this week.

    Ah nice, are you in the UK? It has finally got nice, hasn't it. I've been stuck indoors working on an urgent pitch.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 22,769
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.
    bondywondy sounds like a lot of men of a certain age out there who feel threatened and insecure about the world changing around them, and so go on lashing out over “wokeism”. Feels uncomfortable watching a movie about an old man who’s reached a low point in his elder years that makes him feel like he no longer belongs anywhere to the point that he’s willing to commit temporal suicide. Helena saves Indy and then immediately shows him at the end that he still has something to live for. Not just with Marion, but friend old and new and that’s what reinvigorates him. “Are you back?” “Yes.” And for the first time in all these films, he actually comes back home with the artifact of the adventure.

    Not to dispute your great point about DOD - but he did return home with the stolen stone in Temple, didn't he?

    No, he gives it back to the village when he returns with the kids. He learns there's something better than fortune and glory, which is very similar to one of the lessons Helena learns in DoD.

    I thought that's what he meant by returning; as in he didn't lose it.

    Edit: but then again, he doesn't lose the Ark either. So nevermind!

    Oh sorry, with you. I think the Dial is a bit unique as he doesn't get to keep any of them as a prize up until now, although he does certainly win them, yes.
    It's also the first one he starts out owning! One bit that I think is a bit weird is Indy tells Mason in NYC that the Antikythera is 'just an ancient hunk of gears', which is kind of weird for an archeologist, as it's actually incredibly important for being just that! I kind of get what he means: they seem to want it for some more important reason, but really if they just wanted to steal it for its monetary value, it's still more than a hunk of gears! :)
    mtm wrote: »
    My apologies if I was too negative about DOD last night, I had not slept for 36 hours and was grumpy. I do have issues with the film though one thing at the forefront of my mind is I never wanted to see one of my favorite hero's at this stage of his life and depicted the way Indy was in this film, maybe it reminds me too much of my own mortality.
    I liked the old 1930's style circle fade out though when Indy grabs the hat. Reminds me of The Sting, and also a reference to the old 1930's flicks that Lucas and Spielberg first based the films on.

    I did like that last shot it made me smile, probably my favorite moments in the film.

    That's no worries; sorry to hear you hadn't slept in so long, that's pretty horrible!
    The film certainly surprised me with it's slightly gloomier tone than the other films, but once I was past that I realised that there's a really lovely and warm story at the heart of it.

    Cheers, I work shifts as it was my last shift for a few days I thought I would try to stay awake as the weather was too good to miss and went for a long distance run, it is never a good idea when I do that especially when my sleep has not been great this week.

    Ah nice, are you in the UK? It has finally got nice, hasn't it. I've been stuck indoors working on an urgent pitch.

    Yes in the UK, August was a bit of a wash out and the Annual Leave I took coincided with all the rain unfortunately. Weather forecast predicts a great week ahead we are due 27c on Saturday which is very good for here.

    Good luck with your pitch, hopefully you will get to enjoy the sun over the next few days.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,636
    This has turned out to be quite an interesting discussion, with mostly @mtm saying what I would have wished to say if I were interested in engaging...and I'm not. But it's fascinating to observe, and for a short time I wondered if I should prepare some ten-year old popcorn I still have in the kitchen cabinet.

    Fact remains, I like(d) DOD very much, and PWB's character and performance are two of its main assets for me. But at 66, I may no longer be unsure enough of my masculinity to judge otherwise.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 197
    I’m having to watch it in bits on home media. God, Helena is annoying. But she’s *meant* to be. She is such an obvious reference to Indy when he’s young as well. (Her relationship with her father may as well have had commentary subtitles mentioning last crusade) Her annoying traits aren’t those specifically of a ‘feminist’ but of a young person who hasn’t learned what’s important yet — like Indy, right up until Crusade basically. (And especially in Temple.)

    Most of the ‘anti’ commentariat of YouTube and here have got this one wrong — but they’re never going to admit that, since they made their mind up before shooting even finished. And the majority of their audience is just hard enough of thinking that they can stick it.

    The ‘other side’ manages the same stupid trick — they did for Ghost In The Shell years ago, with pretty much the same result.

    Not quite sure which of the two blocs did for Blade Runner 2049, and I think both sides went at NTTD with their heads up their rear.

    Films ok so far, works quite well, Ford is doing fine too.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,636
    JustJames wrote: »
    I’m having to watch it in bits on home media. God, Helena is annoying. But she’s *meant* to be. She is such an obvious reference to Indy when he’s young as well. (Her relationship with her father may as well have had commentary subtitles mentioning last crusade) Her annoying traits aren’t those specifically of a ‘feminist’ but of a young person who hasn’t learned what’s important yet — like Indy, right up until Crusade basically. (And especially in Temple.)

    Most of the ‘anti’ commentariat of YouTube and here have got this one wrong — but they’re never going to admit that, since they made their mind up before shooting even finished. And the majority of their audience is just hard enough of thinking that they can stick it.

    The ‘other side’ manages the same stupid trick — they did for Ghost In The Shell years ago, with pretty much the same result.

    Not quite sure which of the two blocs did for Blade Runner 2049, and I think both sides went at NTTD with their heads up their rear.

    Films ok so far, works quite well, Ford is doing fine too.
    I like your approach, @JustJames. Though I have neither seen Ghost In The Shell (don't know what that even is) and had no interest to see Blade Runner 2049, in spite of liking the original.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,790
    JustJames wrote: »
    I’m having to watch it in bits on home media. God, Helena is annoying. But she’s *meant* to be. She is such an obvious reference to Indy when he’s young as well. (Her relationship with her father may as well have had commentary subtitles mentioning last crusade) Her annoying traits aren’t those specifically of a ‘feminist’ but of a young person who hasn’t learned what’s important yet — like Indy, right up until Crusade basically. (And especially in Temple.)

    Most of the ‘anti’ commentariat of YouTube and here have got this one wrong — but they’re never going to admit that, since they made their mind up before shooting even finished. And the majority of their audience is just hard enough of thinking that they can stick it.

    Yes indeed.

    I don't even find her that annoying, but she is supposed to be a flawed character: as you say, that's the point.
    j_w_pepper wrote: »

    Fact remains, I like(d) DOD very much, and PWB's character and performance are two of its main assets for me. But at 66, I may no longer be unsure enough of my masculinity to judge otherwise.

    Well said, I think that indeed is a large part of it.
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 1,394
    JustJames wrote: »
    I’m having to watch it in bits on home media. God, Helena is annoying. But she’s *meant* to be. She is such an obvious reference to Indy when he’s young as well. (Her relationship with her father may as well have had commentary subtitles mentioning last crusade) Her annoying traits aren’t those specifically of a ‘feminist’ but of a young person who hasn’t learned what’s important yet — like Indy, right up until Crusade basically. (And especially in Temple.)

    Most of the ‘anti’ commentariat of YouTube and here have got this one wrong — but they’re never going to admit that, since they made their mind up before shooting even finished. And the majority of their audience is just hard enough of thinking that they can stick it.

    The ‘other side’ manages the same stupid trick — they did for Ghost In The Shell years ago, with pretty much the same result.

    Not quite sure which of the two blocs did for Blade Runner 2049, and I think both sides went at NTTD with their heads up their rear.

    Films ok so far, works quite well, Ford is doing fine too.

    Most of the “ anti commentariat “ of YouTube just call it as they see it.This movie looked like a bad idea from the very beginning for a variety of reasons ( Fords age,KKs incompetence as a producer,Disneys woke agenda, and their track record of wrecking Lucas created properties).

    Most of the YouTube community have given almost unanimous praise to the likes of John Wick 4 and Mission Impossible 7 for the simple fact that they thought they were great movies!

    And for the record,MI7 does female characters right.You have at least four main female characters ( Played by Rebecca Ferguson,Vanessa Kirby,Hayley Atwell,and Pom Klementieff ) and they are all unique and intersting.

    Crucially,Ethan Hunt isn’t emasculated as an action hero.Atwells character gets the better of him a couple of times but it’s Cruise who’s driving off that cliff on a motorbike.

    In fact,Hunts relationship with Ilsa Faust is a highlight of the series so far.Those two are so alike and are great to watch together.Also,Cruise,despite now being 60 plus,is still young and believable enough as an action hero unlike Harrison Ford ( Love the guy but there’s no denying his age was a big reason the action in Dial was the weakest in the series ).



  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,955
    The problem with those crowds is that because there’s been an influx of strong female protagonists in the last few years that they’re perceiving Helena to be just another one of those kind of female characters, when she’s clearly not supposed to be. There’s a moment in the movie where she describes herself as a being a strong independent woman. The whole point of that is to show that she’s actually the very opposite at that moment, but the folks railing against her think that’s an earnest comment by the filmmakers. She’s an emotionally damaged woman with abandonment issues who’s lashing out at her godfather. If Indy had never gone after her she would have likely gotten lost and killed along the way.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,790
    The problem with those crowds is that because there’s been an influx of strong female protagonists in the last few years that they’re perceiving Helena to be just another one of those kind of female characters, when she’s clearly not supposed to be. There’s a moment in the movie where she describes herself as a being a strong independent woman. The whole point of that is to show that she’s actually the very opposite at that moment, but the folks railing against her think that’s an earnest comment by the filmmakers. She’s an emotionally damaged woman with abandonment issues who’s lashing out at her godfather. If Indy had never gone after her she would have likely gotten lost and killed along the way.

    There's no point; they can't understand it. If it's said out loud literally on screen, that must be the truth apparently. Ironically, they actually unconditionally believe what a woman is telling them.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Furthermore,I don’t think it was entirely Phoebe Waller Bridges fault.She was a lot less annoying than her droid character in Solo ( Thank god ) and it was really the writing that let her down.Even seeing that first trailer made her look like a moron leaving Indy trapped in a library with a bunch of thugs who have already killed several people at the college.

    There’s absolutely no forgiving that knockout punch she gave to Indy though.Utterly embarrassing and it left a real sickening feeling in my stomach.Seriously,they thought audiences would enjoy seeing him humiliated and treated like an invalid? ( And before someone brings up Marion striking Indy in Raiders,that’s an entirely seperate thing as it was an effective way of conveying their frosty relationship at that point ).

    I’m really convinced the writers having Indy shot and mostly taken out of commission during the final half hour was the worst mistake they could have made.We want to see Indy as a hero,saving the day,with a little help from his friends yes,but alas,Fords age meant that they couldn’t even have the traditional fist fight with a hulking giant ( It was left to Short Round MK 2 to do it )
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 6,644
    That bit in the plane where Helena greets the Germans, then pulls a lever and they all fall off the plane-- that's friggin' great. Classic stuff. I really missed seeing Indy do something like that in the last part of the film-- just one really bold, crazy action. He does cool things, but nothing quite like that. I wish he had. And that doesn't imply his character had to shine all by himself.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,819
    Coming back to see 65 posts I expected Indiana Jones 6 was greenlighted.

    Dial of Destiny as a knock-out punch? That works great for me.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,955
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Seriously, they thought audiences would enjoy seeing him humiliated and treated like an invalid?

    Is this a rhetorical question, or did you genuinely think that the filmmakers put Indy through an emotional wringer because they thought audience would, in your words, “enjoy” seeing him being emotionally distraught?

    It’s pretty clear that the filmmakers wanted to make a film that could not only be enjoyable in parts but also tug at those heart strings seeing Indy be the most vulnerable he’s ever been.

    Yours and others’ comments come off no different than the vocal minority of viewers that hated OHMSS in 1969 because having James Bond become more vulnerable, fall in love and get married “demasculated” him, therefore “ruining” the male fantasy of Bond. Yeah those voices certainly existed back then and were part of the reason OHMSS was often dismissed as the black sheep of the franchise for a good 20 years before home video practically gave it new life and fans.
  • Posts: 1,394
    mattjoes wrote: »
    That bit in the plane where Helena greets the Germans, then pulls a lever and they all fall off the plane-- that's friggin' great. Classic stuff. I really missed seeing Indy do something like that in the last part of the film-- just one really bold, crazy action. He does cool things, but nothing quite like that. I wish he had. And that doesn't imply his character had to shine all by himself.

    Agreed.That bit was pretty cool.But yeah,the film lacked genuine punch the air heroic moments for Indy.I feel if Spielberg had directed this he would have been sure to include those.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited September 2023 Posts: 17,650
    mtm wrote: »
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.
    bondywondy sounds like a lot of men of a certain age out there who feel threatened and insecure about the world changing around them, and so go on lashing out over “wokeism”. Feels uncomfortable watching a movie about an old man who’s reached a low point in his elder years that makes him feel like he no longer belongs anywhere to the point that he’s willing to commit temporal suicide. Helena saves Indy and then immediately shows him at the end that he still has something to live for. Not just with Marion, but friend old and new and that’s what reinvigorates him. “Are you back?” “Yes.” And for the first time in all these films, he actually comes back home with the artifact of the adventure.

    Not to dispute your great point about DOD - but he did return home with the stolen stone in Temple, didn't he?

    No, he gives it back to the village when he returns with the kids. He learns there's something better than fortune and glory, which is very similar to one of the lessons Helena learns in DoD (I suspect that's why she has a kid sidekick as an intention echo of Indy in ToD).
    Among the other lessons she learns of course is that she's not self-sufficient, and indeed it's best not to be. Indy is older and has already learned this (and indeed spots that she's wrong about that), however he thinks that the people he needs to share his life with have all gone and there's nothing left for him. But just as he shows Helena that she needs family, she shows him that he does still have a family.
    But y'know: some people just see a woman and say 'woke'.

    @mtm you seriously rock, my friend! You post all I would have, were I possessed of your eloquence. :)>-
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 968
    This is from the same people who made that one Bond fan film, In The Blink Of An Eye.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,650
    This is from the same people who made that one Bond fan film, In The Blink Of An Eye.

    That is so cute! Well done, kids!!
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 3,209
    bondywondy sounds like a lot of men of a certain age out there who feel threatened and insecure about the world changing around them, and so go on lashing out over “wokeism”. Feels uncomfortable watching a movie about an old man who’s reached a low point in his elder years that makes him feel like he no longer belongs anywhere to the point that he’s willing to commit temporal suicide. Helena saves Indy and then immediately shows him at the end that he still has something to live for. Not just with Marion, but friend old and new and that’s what reinvigorates him. “Are you back?” “Yes.” And for the first time in all these films, he actually comes back home with the artifact of the adventure.

    That's basically the "Old Man" archetype, which has been there ever since the 1980's with The Dark Knight Returns, and, friendly reminder, nobody back then complained about Batman being a "grizzly old man" and "outshadowed by a woman".
    Bondywondy's complains are just the effects of living in a modern society.
    There has been a recent trend of older heroes coming out of retirement after living as a recluse, both in Last Jedi and NTTD, although the Dark Knight Rises also did this and that was over 10 years ago
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 14,790
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Good man @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. Hard work is satisfying but does have its inevitable drawbacks.
    bondywondy sounds like a lot of men of a certain age out there who feel threatened and insecure about the world changing around them, and so go on lashing out over “wokeism”. Feels uncomfortable watching a movie about an old man who’s reached a low point in his elder years that makes him feel like he no longer belongs anywhere to the point that he’s willing to commit temporal suicide. Helena saves Indy and then immediately shows him at the end that he still has something to live for. Not just with Marion, but friend old and new and that’s what reinvigorates him. “Are you back?” “Yes.” And for the first time in all these films, he actually comes back home with the artifact of the adventure.

    Not to dispute your great point about DOD - but he did return home with the stolen stone in Temple, didn't he?

    No, he gives it back to the village when he returns with the kids. He learns there's something better than fortune and glory, which is very similar to one of the lessons Helena learns in DoD (I suspect that's why she has a kid sidekick as an intention echo of Indy in ToD).
    Among the other lessons she learns of course is that she's not self-sufficient, and indeed it's best not to be. Indy is older and has already learned this (and indeed spots that she's wrong about that), however he thinks that the people he needs to share his life with have all gone and there's nothing left for him. But just as he shows Helena that she needs family, she shows him that he does still have a family.
    But y'know: some people just see a woman and say 'woke'.

    @mtm you seriously rock, my friend! You post all I would have, were I possessed of your eloquence. :)>-

    You’re very kind, thank you :)

    Here’s something fun: I don’t think it works because the performance is flattened (and I suspect that’s why they didn’t do it) but it’s interesting to hear regardless:

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,858
    An interesting read:

    'In a strategic blunder in May, Disney held the first screening of Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny at Cannes, the world’s snootiest film festival, from which the first 12 reviews begot an initial score of 33 percent. “What they should’ve done,” says Publicist No. 1, “was have simultaneous screenings in the States for critics who might’ve been more friendly.” A month and a half later, Dial of Destiny bombed at the box office even though friendly critics eventually lifted its rating to 69 percent. “They had a low Rotten Tomatoes score just sitting out there for six weeks before release, and that was deadly,” says a third publicist.'

    https://www.vulture.com/article/rotten-tomatoes-movie-rating.html#_ga=2.66153518.1263227526.1693848800-163696398.1693848800
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,176
    Yes, premiering TDOD at a festival like Cannes was probably a bad idea. Sometimes the complete opposite can happen though, as demonstrated in the article.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 14,790
    The Empire podcast had one of their reviewers who was at the Cannes premiere: apparently the film ran about an hour late because they had a big tribute thing to Harrison Ford beforehand, so you had a cinemaful of uncomfortable, suited, grumpy reviewers who were very aware that they had little time to file their reviews in time to get published in the minutes after the delayed (and quite long) film ended. Basically: yeah, big strategic mistake which doubtless harmed the film.
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 1,394
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Yes, premiering TDOD at a festival like Cannes was probably a bad idea. Sometimes the complete opposite can happen though, as demonstrated in the article.

    The premiere of Top Gun:Maverick was held at Cannes the year before right? It got a great reception from what I remember ( Because it is great obviously)

    Edit: Correction: It premiered at Cinemacon in April 2022,and screened at Cannes a few days later where it got a five minute standing ovation.

Sign In or Register to comment.