Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (30th June 2023)

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Comments

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,096
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Sorry,Indy 5 has absolutely nothing on Mission 7.And if you think the Tuk,Tuk chase was good then you haven’t watched many action films this year.

    What other films have similar scenes to the Tuk Tuk chase that would make this statement remotely reasonable?
  • Posts: 6,976
    My point was that if you dont care about the main character, then all the so-called jaw dropping stunts mean nothing. By the final scene in M:I DR I really couldnt care less whether Hunt makes it out of the train sequence or not! (It also dissipates the tension, knowing he's going to survive, as there's a part two already coming!!!)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,071
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    My point was that if you dont care about the main character, then all the so-called jaw dropping stunts mean nothing. By the final scene in M:I DR I really couldnt care less whether Hunt makes it out of the train sequence or not! (It also dissipates the tension, knowing he's going to survive, as there's a part two already coming!!!)

    You could literally say the same thing about the Bond character-

    Oh, wait. Never mind, haha
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,703
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    My point was that if you don't care about the main character, then all the so-called jaw dropping stunts mean nothing. By the final scene in M:I DR I really couldn't care less whether Hunt makes it out of the train sequence or not! (It also dissipates the tension, knowing he's going to survive, as there's a part two already coming!!!)

    Case in point: the battle scenes in Man Of Steel are way more amazing than the fight in Metropolis in Superman II, but I love Superman II & Man Of Steel is just okay. So yeah, I'm more invested in Indy than Hunt, and there we are.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,254
    That (poor) CGI bit on the train in DOD I reminds me of Tin Tin. Becomes just another (unintentionally) amusing moment in an instant-classic film for me, I don't skip a beat on it.

  • Posts: 1,394
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The Tuk-Tuk chase is indeed as strong as any of the action in DOD gets for me, and even in that sequence, it's just "good." I don't think any moment in the film is really elevated to legendary greatness for me, and that's the problem.

    Just compare that to the epic Rome chases in Fast X and MI7,and the Tuk,Tuk chase looks like something out of a cheap tv show.Fords age really held this film back in terms of action.There was only so much he could do,he even spends the last 20 mins mostly sitting down while Helena does all the heroics.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 15,423
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Finally got to see it yesterday evening. Have to say I enjoyed most of it! Its title appearance was a nice nod to ROTLA, though, at parts of the opening action, I did think I was watching 'The Polar Express', in the end there were a lot of positives, it moves at a great pace, good action sequences ( the tuk tuk chase is terrific) strong characters,( great to see Sallah!) and Phoebe Waller Bridge was excellent. But the main positive was Ford himself, he's still got it, and makes Indiana Jones such a warm, compelling lead, which is why I got more enjoyment out of it than the latest M:I movie, Jones wipes the floor with the bland one dimensional Hunt! Ok, so the ending is daft, but they pull it off better than KOCS, which maybe isn't saying much! And a tip of Indys hat to James Mangold, brave to fill Spielbergs shoes, which he does very well!

    Yes, I agree there, you've put it well.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,096
    I enjoyed DoD quite a bit overall. It did sag in its second act and overall it felt like there was a touch of that old spark missing, but I was quite gripped by the earlier elements (CIA involvement, the backdrop of an American society in transition etc.). There's a lot to like about the film.

    And I did find the ending quite bittersweet, but in a good way. I was quite surprised by how low-key it was - there wasn't much fanfare towards the end.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,703
    I enjoyed DoD quite a bit overall. It did sag in its second act and overall it felt like there was a touch of that old spark missing, but I was quite gripped by the earlier elements (CIA involvement, the backdrop of an American society in transition etc.). There's a lot to like about the film.

    And I did find the ending quite bittersweet, but in a good way. I was quite surprised by how low-key it was - there wasn't much fanfare towards the end.
    It ends not with a bang but with a hug. I loved that.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 3,169
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Sorry,Indy 5 has absolutely nothing on Mission 7.
    There's more to a good action movie, than the action scenes itself. I found DOD fun from beginning to end. MI7.... yes, there's a couple of well-shot setpieces. But besides that...it's largely a mess with way too much exposition.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    if you think the Tuk,Tuk chase was good then you haven’t watched many action films this year.
    Those where most action setpieces relies heavily on CGI, use of green screen and is defying gravity (Fast X for example). When you decide to shoot on location, using real props and real practical effects, the Tangier chase is as good as it gets.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Zekidk wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Sorry,Indy 5 has absolutely nothing on Mission 7.
    There's more to a good action movie, than the action scenes itself. I found DOD fun from beginning to end. MI7.... yes, there's a couple of well-shot setpieces. But besides that...it's largely a mess with way too much exposition.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    if you think the Tuk,Tuk chase was good then you haven’t watched many action films this year.
    Those where most action setpieces relies heavily on CGI, use of green screen and is defying gravity (Fast X for example). When you decide to shoot on location, using real props and real practical effects, the Tangier chase is as good as it gets.

    While I’m sure cgi and green screen was used,Fast X and MI7 filmed their respective chases in Rome.They even had their premieres there!

  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,788
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    While I’m sure cgi and green screen was used, Fast X and MI7 filmed their respective chases in Rome.They even had their premieres there!
    And? So?

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,096
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Sorry,Indy 5 has absolutely nothing on Mission 7.
    There's more to a good action movie, than the action scenes itself. I found DOD fun from beginning to end. MI7.... yes, there's a couple of well-shot setpieces. But besides that...it's largely a mess with way too much exposition.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    if you think the Tuk,Tuk chase was good then you haven’t watched many action films this year.
    Those where most action setpieces relies heavily on CGI, use of green screen and is defying gravity (Fast X for example). When you decide to shoot on location, using real props and real practical effects, the Tangier chase is as good as it gets.

    While I’m sure cgi and green screen was used,Fast X and MI7 filmed their respective chases in Rome.They even had their premieres there!

    I was also in Rome once.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,703
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Sorry,Indy 5 has absolutely nothing on Mission 7.
    There's more to a good action movie, than the action scenes itself. I found DOD fun from beginning to end. MI7.... yes, there's a couple of well-shot setpieces. But besides that...it's largely a mess with way too much exposition.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    if you think the Tuk,Tuk chase was good then you haven’t watched many action films this year.
    Those where most action setpieces relies heavily on CGI, use of green screen and is defying gravity (Fast X for example). When you decide to shoot on location, using real props and real practical effects, the Tangier chase is as good as it gets.

    While I’m sure cgi and green screen was used,Fast X and MI7 filmed their respective chases in Rome.They even had their premieres there!

    I was also in Rome once.

    Bruce Lee filmed Way Of The Dragon partially in Rome.
  • Posts: 6,976
    I got married in Rome. I'm going back there with the Miissus next March for our anniversary!
  • mattjoesmattjoes At my most trollish behavior
    Posts: 6,894
    but I was quite gripped by the earlier elements (CIA involvement, the backdrop of an American society in transition etc.). There's a lot to like about the film.

    I loved all those things in the film. I felt a great deal of thought had gone into them. Society thinking about the future and the skies, rather than the past and the ground (with underground tombs being a signature of the Indiana Jones films). Americans having former Nazis working for them. A changing world. It's like The Wild Bunch, but with Indiana Jones.

    And there were lots of little narrative touches that I enjoyed. The anti-war protest that ties into the death of Mutt, and which in different circumstances, Indy could have supported out of legitimate interest rather than mere self-preservation. The fact we learn nothing about Klaber but are left to imagine how he allied himself with Voller. The parallel remembrances by Indy and Helena when flying to Morocco. The fact the map sequence is saved for later, when Indy is fully immersed in finding the second half of the dial, and not merely interested in recovering the first half of the dial and clearing his name. Hauk's head being hidden by the hanging lamp when we first see him in Morocco, which emphasizes his height. Teddy and Indy looking at the US Military chopper flying above them, without knowing Voller is on it. The puppeteer dramatizing the Siege of Syracuse. The fact when Voller holds Helena at gunpoint in Archimedes' tomb, he tells Indy he's already lost his wife and son, emphasizing the point that he took the time to read Jones' dossier. The Italian pilot who ends up being pulled into the adventure, adding humor, an element of surprise and making more plausible the idea that Teddy's plane continues to fly without incident (speaking of that, Teddy's skill with all sorts of vehicles has a fairytale-ish quality to it that feels like Spielberg, and which balances the generally serious tone of the film). The fact Indy says "the great Archimedes", which makes one wonder how Archimedes felt when finding out his name is still remembered 2,000 years later. Helena's analogy between the forced card deck and the dial.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited July 2023 Posts: 554
    Yeah, overall I enjoyed Dial more than MI7. Although the ending was probably my biggest issue - Indy not making the choice to go back, and having Helena make it for him was a bad call IMO. And the ultimate resolution with Marion felt to me like just a variation on Crystal Skull's end (which I did love).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 15,423
    I went to watch it again today. The cinema was surprisingly packed (I guess partly because there are fewer screenings a day at this point) and I enjoyed it, perhaps even slightly more this time. I think the action scenes work really well: I love the Tuk Tuk chase.
  • Posts: 6,976
    mtm wrote: »
    I went to watch it again today. The cinema was surprisingly packed (I guess partly because there are fewer screenings a day at this point) and I enjoyed it, perhaps even slightly more this time. I think the action scenes work really well: I love the Tuk Tuk chase.

    I believe Dan Bradley was on Second unit duties, which, if he worked on that sequence, explains why it is so good! I still rate him for his work on QOS, as having the best action of Craigs 5 Bond films! He also did 'M:I Ghost Protocol', and I rate the action in that as being my favourite in that series!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 15,423
    That's good to know, thanks. For all of the talk of this movie being too CG, that chase is clearly about 95% real, on location stuff. A couple of CG cars here and there and obviously actor close-ups in studio (which isn't exactly unusual) but that's an exciting, practical chase. Well-written too.
    Pretty much all of the stuff with the cars and motorbikes in the opening 1944 section is real too I think, but I think they've added so much in the way of backgrounds and probably night-time grading that it's come out looking faker than it is.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,410
    I also had a great time with the Tuk Tuk chase. Much better than all the action at night.

  • edited July 2023 Posts: 1,394
    Indy 5 now shaping up to be the biggest box office flop in Disney history

  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,924
    Well, I won't sleep tonight.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,071
    Aston really follows the worst clickbaiting YouTubers. Says a lot about his character.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,703
    Benny wrote: »
    Well, I won't sleep tonight.

    Hahahahaha! yeah, me too. LOL
    I went to see it; I did my part, and it's done. I loved it. All the haters can rejoice, but I got another movie I love.
  • Posts: 1,965
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    Well, I won't sleep tonight.

    Hahahahaha! yeah, me too. LOL
    I went to see it; I did my part, and it's done. I loved it. All the haters can rejoice, but I got another movie I love.

    Same. I loved it and this is the final one. So who care if it didn't make much money?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,093
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    Well, I won't sleep tonight.

    Hahahahaha! yeah, me too. LOL
    I went to see it; I did my part, and it's done. I loved it. All the haters can rejoice, but I got another movie I love.

    Same. I loved it and this is the final one. So who care if it didn't make much money?

    Who cares if it doesn't make money? Disney stockholders, Ford if he had any points in his contract, Bob Iger, Kathleen Kennedy, Disney employees who have just faced massive layoffs and are likely to get chopped down some more, Manigold might care as he has a Star Wars project. I believe the last person to face a declining Box Office, see Rian Johnson, was unceremoniously dumped from his trilogy.

    I must say I don't think the YouTubers you watch says much about your character. This constant need to take shots are people is really un-needed.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 15,423
    thedove wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    Well, I won't sleep tonight.

    Hahahahaha! yeah, me too. LOL
    I went to see it; I did my part, and it's done. I loved it. All the haters can rejoice, but I got another movie I love.

    Same. I loved it and this is the final one. So who care if it didn't make much money?

    Who cares if it doesn't make money? Disney stockholders, Ford if he had any points in his contract, Bob Iger, Kathleen Kennedy, Disney employees who have just faced massive layoffs and are likely to get chopped down some more, Manigold might care as he has a Star Wars project. I believe the last person to face a declining Box Office, see Rian Johnson, was unceremoniously dumped from his trilogy.

    I think fjdinardo’s point was that we are none of those people, and Disney shareholders probably have a few pennies in the bank already: I think they’re going to be okay.
    thedove wrote: »
    I must say I don't think the YouTubers you watch says much about your character. This constant need to take shots are people is really un-needed.

    ‘Taking shots’ is all that these bottom-feeding YouTubers do; it doesn’t really work to defend incredibly rude, unpleasant people who make these videos on the basis that it’s not nice to be a bit rude. If they can’t take it they shouldn’t really give it.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 468
    It has flopped because it's gone woke. These critics are right. If it hadn't put a female character so much to the front, if it had featured a traditionally heroic male role model (with more horse riding), this movie would have made $155M in a single weekend.
  • mattjoesmattjoes At my most trollish behavior
    edited July 2023 Posts: 6,894
    I don't know why it's flopping, but it sucks that after a certain point, Helena feels like the star of the film, and Indy the supporting character. Feels like the film is being told from her point of view. Especially disappointing since there's a lot of good stuff in the film otherwise.
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