Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (30th June 2023)

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  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,745
    matt_u wrote: »
    The biggest sin of KotCS was casting Shia.
    He didn’t had any impact back then and a couple of Transformers movies after that he started a path that led to destroying his career, forcing Lucasfilm to keep his character away from the last chapter.
    Ah, forgot to mention that I found Phoebe’s character extremely annoying.
    Praying for EoN to keep her away from any future Bond project, in any form.

    I liked Shia's character enough to enjoy KOTCS, and I love Phoebe's character in DOD. Also, if PWB had a measurable influence on the NTTD script, I commend her for that, since I love NTTD. As for the Indy films, best female actress in the franchise (sorry, Karen Allen...we love you too).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    I never disliked Shia. In fact, I thought he had strong chemistry with Ford. If there’s any weakness, it’s that the movie doesn’t quite know what to do with Mutt by the time we reach South America because of the influx of other characters tagging along. I wish they had kept the focus strong in Indy and Mutt to the end, much like with Indy and Henry Sr, with Marion and Oxley taking a backseat (and Mac being deleted entirely).
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,447
    Just got back. Enjoyed most of it. Could have trimmed around 30 minutes or so, especially in the first 60 minutes. Totally agree about missing some Spielberg but found the action and temple sequences more than serviceable.
    Enjoyed it more than KOTCS and TOD.

    B
    7/10
  • Great credit to Kathy Kennedy for helping introduce PWB character. She is brilliant in DOD. Just wish Short Round had popped by to say hello!
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 468
    And of course, the Paramount logo appears, but it’s modern and doesn’t dissolve into a mountain figure like in previous film. I suspect that was less of a conscious decision by Mangold and more Disney not wanting to give too much attention to a contractual company credit. It’s notable for being the only LucasFilm or even Marvel production to open with the Disney castle logo. I suspect that’s there for corporate egotism to let audiences know this is really their film and not Paramount’s.

    The dissolve happens with the LucasFilm logo (the third to appear, after Disney and Paramount), as it turns into a lock.
  • mattjoesmattjoes People's Republic of Matjoeguay
    Posts: 6,833
    I like Mutt in Crystal Skull. Cool character. Shia was a good choice.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,034
    Looks like DOD will have a similar opening to The Flash. This is not good when you consider the DOD was a more expensive movie to make!

    https://variety.com/2023/film/box-office/indiana-jones-dial-of-destiny-international-box-office-misfire-1235660093/

    Where I think DOD will be better than Flash is in lasting power at the Box Office. I suspect that it won't drop by 71% in it's second weekend.

    I haven't seen the movie yet, so I can't comment one way or the other about it's merits. Looking forward to seeing it.
  • Posts: 3,169
    matt_u wrote: »
    The biggest sin of KotCS was casting Shia.
    The biggest sin was letting Lucas get too much creative control, leading to a bunch of silly CGI animals.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 15,186
    I never disliked Shia. In fact, I thought he had strong chemistry with Ford. If there’s any weakness, it’s that the movie doesn’t quite know what to do with Mutt by the time we reach South America because of the influx of other characters tagging along. I wish they had kept the focus strong in Indy and Mutt to the end, much like with Indy and Henry Sr, with Marion and Oxley taking a backseat (and Mac being deleted entirely).

    Yes, following Last Crusade and having such a similar central father/son dynamic, it's rather a crime that after the lovely arc Indy and Henry have in TLC, KOTCS has no idea what to do with Indy and Mutt. They start out getting along quite fine, and end up getting along quite fine.
    Imagine if Mutt had fallen out with Indy properly after learning he's his dad, maybe even being persuaded by Spalko to join her for a little while. Y'know: have something happen with the characters a bit.
    Zekidk wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    The biggest sin of KotCS was casting Shia.
    The biggest sin was letting Lucas get too much creative control, leading to a bunch of silly CGI animals.

    It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Spielberg had done DOD on his own as originally planned. But in the end he wasn't really interested, and I think I'd rather have a good director who wants to be there than a great one who doesn't.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited July 2023 Posts: 4,343
    Shia’s Mutt had little impact back then. That’s a fact. I made peace with him and he was a good actor but guys, his dad is Harrison Ford and his grandpa is Sean Connery.
    He just doesn’t have the screen presence to fill those shoes.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,745
    matt_u wrote: »
    Shia’s Mutt had little impact back then. That’s a fact. I made peace with him and he was a good actor but guys, his dad is Harrison Ford and his grandpa is Sean Connery.
    He just doesn’t have the screen presence to fill those shoes.

    I guess I can agree with that. But they disposed of his role well enough in DOD.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Shia’s Mutt had little impact back then. That’s a fact. I made peace with him and he was a good actor but guys, his dad is Harrison Ford and his grandpa is Sean Connery.
    He just doesn’t have the screen presence to fill those shoes.

    I guess I can agree with that. But they disposed of his role well enough in DOD.

    Yes and the little scene were Indy talks about him is the best scene of the film imo.
    Back in 2008 they casted him because he was pretty famous among younger audiences and that helped boosting the interest of teenagers for a film that was basically a legacy sequel. It worked from this standpoint. Overall Skull made really a lot given its so so reception (it had a lower Cinemascore than DoD).
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,745
    matt_u wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Shia’s Mutt had little impact back then. That’s a fact. I made peace with him and he was a good actor but guys, his dad is Harrison Ford and his grandpa is Sean Connery.
    He just doesn’t have the screen presence to fill those shoes.

    I guess I can agree with that. But they disposed of his role well enough in DOD.

    Yes and the little scene were Indy talks about him is the best scene of the film imo.
    Back in 2008 they casted him because he was pretty famous among younger audiences and that helped boosting the interest of teenagers for a film that was basically a legacy sequel. It worked from this standpoint. Overall Skull made really a lot given its so so reception (it had a lower Cinemascore than DoD).

    I must say that tonight was the time that I first heard about a "Cinemascore", in the wake of myself stating that I don't give a s...t about box office proceeds in this case. So let DOD bomb. From my individual point of view, it just shows that the general public is not interested in this type of movie. Let them watch what they want instead, as long as I still find something I like in the future.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 15,186
    matt_u wrote: »
    Shia’s Mutt had little impact back then. That’s a fact. I made peace with him and he was a good actor but guys, his dad is Harrison Ford and his grandpa is Sean Connery.
    He just doesn’t have the screen presence to fill those shoes.

    He's alright, he's not nothing at all and manages not to be irritating in a role which could be. If not him, I'm not sure who else you could have cast at the time.

    I could imagine someone like Ryan Gosling being really good with Ford in that kind of thing, but he hadn't really broken out by then and is five years older.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    Shia was cast because Spielberg liked him and saw raw talent that he thought he could temper, not because he was popular with younger audiences. For awhile he putting him into his Dreamworks productions, KOTCS was the only instance where Spielberg directed him.

    Of course, Shia never seemed happy working under that environment and burned his bridges. I especially got that sense with the film HONEY BOY where it opens with Lucas Hedges playing Shia’s analog working on a big blockbuster film, but looking unfulfilled in his life.
  • Posts: 1,165
    Zekidk wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    The biggest sin of KotCS was casting Shia.
    The biggest sin was letting Lucas get too much creative control, leading to a bunch of silly CGI animals.

    Lucas wasn’t responsible for CGI animals.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,165
    Audiences seem to like it.


    indianajones5firstpic-900x506.jpg
    rotten-tomatoes-logo-202C7E90E3-seeklogo.com.png
    Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
    2023, Adventure/Action, 2h 24m
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/indiana_jones_and_the_dial_of_destiny
    68% Critics - 308 Reviews
    88% Audience - 2,500+ Verified Ratings
    Critics Consensus
    It isn't as thrilling as earlier adventures, but the nostalgic rush of seeing Harrison Ford back in action helps Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny find a few final bits of cinematic treasure.

    Daredevil archaeologist Indiana Jones races against time to retrieve a legendary dial that can change the course of history. Accompanied by his goddaughter, he soon finds himself squaring off against Jürgen Voller, a former Nazi who works for NASA.
    hero-image.fill.size_1248x702.v1688050984.webp

  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,908
    This may sound selfish, but I’m not interested in what critics think, or how high or low the box office is.
    Obviously the box office is important to the production company. But I watch a movie for me.
    I was entertained by DoD. There was some stuff I didn’t like, some stuff I thought could’ve been done better, and some stuff I loved.
    My biggest positive was Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones. They didn’t mess with the character, the acknowledged his age, and didn’t imo embarrass him in his final adventure.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited July 2023 Posts: 654
    The low box office isn't surprising. Disney and LucasFilm are soiled brands. People are still sore over the awful Star Wars sequels. The Cannes reviews were very negative. And quite simply, no 80-year-old is convincing as an action star.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,165
    Oh on screen I thought Mr. Ford was great throughout and hard to match as an action star, if there's a comparison that could be made to the Jones character.

    In fact the film presents him the first time at age in a way that shows they (and Harrison Ford himself) have no reservations and nothing to hide really. And that serves the film very well.

  • Saw it and have to let this one stew a bit .. Mixed feelings . Ford is the greatest part of this film , and he has a wonderful performance has 70 year old Indy. I have complaints , but overall it’s a 7/10 right now .
  • Posts: 15,881
    May try and see it tomorrow time permitting.
    It's a bit doubtful I'll get to go, but we'll see.......................
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,165
    Back home from travel while my son and daughter are here, my family here asked me to see it with them tomorrow.

    I'm all in.

    grab-my-hat-indiana-jones-the-dial-of-destiny.gif

  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,908
    If I make it to the age of 80, then I’ll be happy. If I look like Harrison Ford, I’ll be escatic.
    Not everything we see is Ford, I get that. But what is him is nothing but impressive.
  • Posts: 1,726
    What are the reasons DOD may not fair well at the box office? Is Indy a character from another generation than that of the movie going audience of today? Does a younger audience not want to watch an 80 year old actor, no matter what character he is playing? Just wondering.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    delfloria wrote: »
    What are the reasons DOD may not fair well at the box office? Is Indy a character from another generation than that of the movie going audience of today? Does a younger audience not want to watch an 80 year old actor, no matter what character he is playing? Just wondering.

    And it follows an Indy film that has become heavily derided in the past 15 years.
  • Posts: 1,165
    delfloria wrote: »
    What are the reasons DOD may not fair well at the box office? Is Indy a character from another generation than that of the movie going audience of today? Does a younger audience not want to watch an 80 year old actor, no matter what character he is playing? Just wondering.
    The biggest reason is simply due to this film skewing towards an older demographic. It’s not trying to get new fans interested in the franchise. It’s aimed at an older audience, which means a smaller market share.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    It would be like getting Pierce Brosnan back for one more film as an older James Bond. It would certainly draw in Bond fans, particularly the older crowd, but I can’t imagine that generating as much excitement for broader audiences as casting a new actor in the part.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 310
    It would be like getting Pierce Brosnan back for one more film as an older James Bond. It would certainly draw in Bond fans, particularly the older crowd, but I can’t imagine that generating as much excitement for broader audiences as casting a new actor in the part.

    It's subjective but 70 ish could be the maximum age to convince as an action star? Sylvester Stallone was 72 in the final Rambo film: Last Blood. Never seen the film but I guess a 70 ish old Rambo might be credible to some of the potential audience.

    Pierce Brosnan is 70. Maybe he could be convincing as a retired James Bond returning for one final mission. But an 80 year old Indiana Jones is too much of a stretch. In terms of fight sequences/leaping from fast cars etc is seems too unrealistic. Also, film makers can patronise older actors. You get younger actors cast playing their children or whatever and they treat the older hero as past it. If Brosnan returned to play Bond you might end up with a varation of Jinx played by a 20 something year old. "Hey, old man, leave the secret agent stuff to me."

    ;))
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 3,281
    I never disliked Shia. In fact, I thought he had strong chemistry with Ford. If there’s any weakness, it’s that the movie doesn’t quite know what to do with Mutt by the time we reach South America because of the influx of other characters tagging along. I wish they had kept the focus strong in Indy and Mutt to the end, much like with Indy and Henry Sr, with Marion and Oxley taking a backseat (and Mac being deleted entirely).

    Yes I agree with this. It felt like a missed opportunity with Shia. It made it worse that he appeared in the worst CGI action scenes - with the monkeys swinging from the trees, and sword fighting and doing the leg splits while balancing on top of a jeep. Both scenes are absolute garbage and ruin the film.

    And Mac didn't add anything to the film at all really. He's a double-crosser, then not a double-crosser, then he is again, but Indy still wants to save him anyway, then he says he'll be allright knowing he's gong to die.

    Pointless character.
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