Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (30th June 2023)

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  • Posts: 12,312
    I could see how Indiana Jones unfortunately wouldn’t resonate with modern audiences as much. Doesn’t help that the reviews started poorly and probably less interest to begin with after KOTCS. At least it is the last one anyway, though more success would have been nice.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,782
    I must say that I don't really give a FF, as they are not going to continue the franchise anyway. The studio's profits only play a role for me if the box office is so bad that it threatens something I would realistically wish to continue. Spielberg and Lucas and Disney and Paramount had umpteen hits-and-misses before, and it never changed my opinion of the movies concerned. Let the accountants worry about that.

    Ever since the awful Episodes 1 through 3, I haven't cared about the future of Star Wars any more, and never watched any of those three again, nor any later prequels or spin-offs (but the original trilogy about ten times or so, albeit in the Lucas-sanitized form). I couldn't care less if Disney & Co are losing money big time on SW, and likewise on the last IJ film. It's that I have seen it and liked it what counts. I just hope they stick around until the Blu-ray and the soundtrack CD are available, so I can also own it for future viewings and listening.

    Count me out on all of the (other) superhero franchises as well. At present, James Bond is the only franchise that I care about to be continued. And NTTD, I guess, wasn't that much of a bomb.



  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,928


    I have been trying to get my hands on Staff Of Kings for PS2, not an easy find these days. It's a shame that the in development Indy game will be a victim of Microsofts land grab of developers.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,467
    Going to see it within the next hour depending on my mother in law gets here to watch my daughter. Will report back later.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,070
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It looks like a $130 million global start for The Dial of Destiny at the box office:

    https://deadline.com/2023/07/box-office-indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-1235427644/

    Is this good enough?

    The article suggests it's not good, as their numbers are around a $329 million budget and this is way under the opening weekend for KOTCS, adjusted for inflation.

    I guess we shouldn’t expect an Indy 6 anytime soon!
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,317
    There is a charming interview with Harrison Ford on German TV available (hope access is not restricted domestically).

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    It is with immense sadness… but Dial is a failure.
    It is not a bad movie generally speaking, but it doesn’t feel like a true Indy film. It has the ingredients but lacks the DNA that Spielberg injected in it with his ability to fill almost every image with virtuosity and heart.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,782
    zebrafish wrote: »
    There is a charming interview with Harrison Ford on German TV available (hope access is not restricted domestically).
    Very good, vielen Dank, @zebrafish! It certainly isn't restricted domestically here...
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,882
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.

  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,006
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.

    Did you even ever see KOTCS and DOD?
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,782
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.

    Tough luck.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,882
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.

    Tough luck.

    Why is it tough luck?
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,882
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.

    Did you even ever see KOTCS and DOD?

    I saw the majority of the films at the cinema, whats your point?
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,006
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.

    Did you even ever see KOTCS and DOD?

    I saw the majority of the films at the cinema, whats your point?

    Some people tend to hate on things when they didn't even saw it on the first place, if you've actually seen them, then it is valid.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,782
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.

    Tough luck.

    Why is it tough luck?

    Tough luck because you're pretty alone here with that unequivocal (i.e. nonsensical) damnation, and most others here have at least a balanced opinion. But I also suppose you haven't even watched it, or you wouldn't write that kind of stuff without further explanations.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,882
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.

    Did you even ever see KOTCS and DOD?

    I saw the majority of the films at the cinema, whats your point?

    Some people tend to hate on things when they didn't even saw it on the first place, if you've actually seen them, then it is valid.

    When I watched KOTCS at the cinema I got a lot more than I did from DOD, I love Indy though DOD was a film too far and I have issues with other aspects of the film.

    One of my greatest ever cinema experiences was watching Last Crusade, I got the cinema poster also from the theater which I regret not preserving.
  • mattjoesmattjoes At my most trollish behavior
    Posts: 6,884
    matt_u wrote: »
    It is with immense sadness… but Dial is a failure.
    It is not a bad movie generally speaking, but it doesn’t feel like a true Indy film. It has the ingredients but lacks the DNA that Spielberg injected in it with his ability to fill almost every image with virtuosity and heart.
    I feel those terms apply a bit less to Raiders of the Lost Ark than the next three Indy films, because Raiders is a grittier, more serious, less overtly emotional movie. In that sense, I think Dial of Destiny is tonally closest to Raiders.

    I was just thinking I've enjoyed all 5 Indy movies. Even the much-maligned Crystal Skull, which needed another script pass, is a film bursting with cool ideas and fun moments. I'm happy I feel this way about this film series.


    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.
    What did you think of the
    time travel?

    I loved it myself.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,072
    So now someone is not allowed to dislike a movie based on its own merits? That’s just as bone headed as condemning it prior to seeing it.
    It is possible to dislike DoD without being a wackadoddle.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,782
    talos7 wrote: »
    So now someone is not allowed to dislike a movie based on its own merits? That’s just as bone headed as condemning it prior to seeing it.
    It is possible to dislike DoD without being a wackadoddle.

    Of course. And I didn't call him that. But freedom of opinion doesn't mean everyone has to agree - in fact, quite the contrary. Outspoken opinions tend to trigger negative reactions as well, because the others (in this case, I believe, even the majority) have freedom of opinion as well. And that happens mostly when we get statements like "the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it" without any further explanation. Most people here don't see anything insulting, and therefore don't care if a single poster "doesn't acknowledge" the film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited July 2023 Posts: 8,070
    I enjoyed the movie, but I do agree to an extent that it doesn’t feel like an Indy movie. Even KOTCS felt more like an Indy movie than DOD.

    I immediately realized within the first few minutes that this was going to be a very different film once German characters started carrying dialogue in their native language, subtitled. Spielberg across all his films has avoided relying on subtitles, preferring to have characters speak in English. If they ever speak a different language it’s usually paraphrased by someone else in English or conveyed visually in a way that we can understand the context of what’s being said. For example, Indy and Short Round at one point start arguing in Chinese. Unless you speak it, you’ll never know what they’re saying exactly, but you understand the context of their argument.

    That is just ONE of the many things that initially threw me off from the movie feeling like a piece of the series. I’ll get more into it later.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited July 2023 Posts: 23,882
    .
    mattjoes wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    It is with immense sadness… but Dial is a failure.
    It is not a bad movie generally speaking, but it doesn’t feel like a true Indy film. It has the ingredients but lacks the DNA that Spielberg injected in it with his ability to fill almost every image with virtuosity and heart.
    I feel those terms apply a bit less to Raiders of the Lost Ark than the next three Indy films, because Raiders is a grittier, more serious, less overtly emotional movie. In that sense, I think Dial of Destiny is tonally closest to Raiders.

    I was just thinking I've enjoyed all 5 Indy movies. Even the much-maligned Crystal Skull, which needed another script pass, is a film bursting with cool ideas and fun moments. I'm happy I feel this way about this film series.


    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is when the story ended, the recent film is insulting and I do not acknowledge it.
    What did you think of the
    time travel?

    I loved it myself.

    The twist in any other film would be OK, though I felt it was an anti climax in Indy film.

    I am happy many enjoyed the film, I rather remember Indy in previous films.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    edited July 2023 Posts: 8,782
    I enjoyed the movie, but I do agree to an extent that it doesn’t feel like an Indy movie. Even KOTCS felt more like an Indy movie than DOD.

    I immediately realized within the first few minutes that this was going to be a very different film once German characters started carrying dialogue in their native language, subtitled. Spielberg across all his films has avoided relying on subtitles, preferring to have characters speak in English. If they ever speak a different language it’s usually paraphrased by someone else in English or conveyed visually in a way that we can understand the context of what’s being said. For example, Indy and Short Round at one point start arguing in Chinese. Unless you speak it, you’ll never know what they’re saying exactly, but you understand the context of their argument.

    That is just ONE of the many things that initially threw me off from the movie feeling like a piece of the series. I’ll get more into it later.

    I can see where you're coming from, but in what language should they talk? (Apart from the fact that not all of the German-sounding phrases are really German in this movie. Not as bad as in "Die Hard" where most is gibberish, but still.) I remember the discussion about "Stauffenberg" starring Tom Cruise, where people complained that "although it is in English, he should at least have used a German accent". That's complete nonsense, as normal English here takes the place of the German they really spoke. Germans don't speak English with a German accent with each other.

    If you make a movie or a theatre production that plays in a foreign country (be it a performance of Hamlet in Denmark or an English production of Hitler's last days), your best bet is to use your own (English) language, with a minimum of accent, since it doesn't make sense. I live in a country that (IMO today, unfortunately) dubs almost any foreign movie in its own language before it gets into the cinemas. But what it taught us is that when John Wayne or Jimmy Stewart or Sean Connery seems to talk German, they really speak English. You get used to it and never question why the hell they speak German, because you know they really don't.

    Now I hate dubbed movies and always watch the originals when possible. But in a setting where different languages are spoken, keeping the originals, combined with subtitles for the non-speakers of the foreign language make the most sense.

  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,006








    Some Indy related thingy i've found recently.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,391
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I was just thinking I've enjoyed all 5 Indy movies. Even the much-maligned Crystal Skull, which needed another script pass, is a film bursting with cool ideas and fun moments. I'm happy I feel this way about this film series.

    I've always wanted to see what a script doctor who knows about how to structure a plot and make character stories work would do with Crystal Skull. Because yeah: there's enough good stuff in there, it just doesn't all fit together. Sort out the motivations, put some themes in there.. it could work, and I'd love for someone to figure out how.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,072
    Many create our own cannon for various franchises for various reasons; I don’t acknowledge any Rambo past “ Rambo “ 2008, or “ Rocky Balboa” 2006. Both are perfect conclusions for those characters. I see feeling the same about Indy and anything past the original trilogy.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,782
    mtm wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I was just thinking I've enjoyed all 5 Indy movies. Even the much-maligned Crystal Skull, which needed another script pass, is a film bursting with cool ideas and fun moments. I'm happy I feel this way about this film series.

    I've always wanted to see what a script doctor who knows about how to structure a plot and make character stories work would do with Crystal Skull. Because yeah: there's enough good stuff in there, it just doesn't all fit together. Sort out the motivations, put some themes in there.. it could work, and I'd love for someone to figure out how.

    I don't worry any more about Crystal Skull. It is what it is, and it passed my personal scrutiny as good enough (it did from the beginning). And DOD is quite a bit better. So I can't see why so many people are still complaining. You won't get another IJ movie better than this either way.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 15,391
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I was just thinking I've enjoyed all 5 Indy movies. Even the much-maligned Crystal Skull, which needed another script pass, is a film bursting with cool ideas and fun moments. I'm happy I feel this way about this film series.

    I've always wanted to see what a script doctor who knows about how to structure a plot and make character stories work would do with Crystal Skull. Because yeah: there's enough good stuff in there, it just doesn't all fit together. Sort out the motivations, put some themes in there.. it could work, and I'd love for someone to figure out how.

    I don't worry any more about Crystal Skull. It is what it is, and it passed my personal scrutiny as good enough (it did from the beginning). And DOD is quite a bit better. So I can't see why so many people are still complaining. You won't get another IJ movie better than this either way.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about Skull and I like that we got it, and indeed there's much it had that I wish DOD had. I'm actually just more fascinated about how it could be made to work better, because I think it could.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    edited July 2023 Posts: 8,782
    mtm wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I was just thinking I've enjoyed all 5 Indy movies. Even the much-maligned Crystal Skull, which needed another script pass, is a film bursting with cool ideas and fun moments. I'm happy I feel this way about this film series.

    I've always wanted to see what a script doctor who knows about how to structure a plot and make character stories work would do with Crystal Skull. Because yeah: there's enough good stuff in there, it just doesn't all fit together. Sort out the motivations, put some themes in there.. it could work, and I'd love for someone to figure out how.

    I don't worry any more about Crystal Skull. It is what it is, and it passed my personal scrutiny as good enough (it did from the beginning). And DOD is quite a bit better. So I can't see why so many people are still complaining. You won't get another IJ movie better than this either way.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about Skull and I like that we got it, and indeed there's much it had that I wish DOD had. I'm actually just more fascinated about how it could be made to work better, because I think it could.

    That's fine, but on the level of myself repeatedly wondering how they could have re-edited QOS to make it a proper Bond film. Neither will happen.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited July 2023 Posts: 4,343
    The biggest sin of KotCS was casting Shia.
    He didn’t had any impact back then and a couple of Transformers movies after that he started a path that led to destroying his career, forcing Lucasfilm to keep his character away from the last chapter.
    Ah, forgot to mention that I found Phoebe’s character extremely annoying.
    Praying for EoN to keep her away from any future Bond project, in any form.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited July 2023 Posts: 8,070
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I enjoyed the movie, but I do agree to an extent that it doesn’t feel like an Indy movie. Even KOTCS felt more like an Indy movie than DOD.

    I immediately realized within the first few minutes that this was going to be a very different film once German characters started carrying dialogue in their native language, subtitled. Spielberg across all his films has avoided relying on subtitles, preferring to have characters speak in English. If they ever speak a different language it’s usually paraphrased by someone else in English or conveyed visually in a way that we can understand the context of what’s being said. For example, Indy and Short Round at one point start arguing in Chinese. Unless you speak it, you’ll never know what they’re saying exactly, but you understand the context of their argument.

    That is just ONE of the many things that initially threw me off from the movie feeling like a piece of the series. I’ll get more into it later.

    I can see where your're coming from, but in what language should they talk? (Apart from the fact that not all of the German-sounding phrases are really German in this movie. Not as bad as in "Die Hard" where most is gibberish, but still.) I remember the discussion about "Stauffenberg" starring Tom Cruise, where people complained that "although it is in English, he should at least have used a German accent". That's complete nonsense, as normal English here takes the place of the German they really spoke. Germans don't speak English with a German accent with each other.

    If you make a movie or a theatre production that plays in a foreign country (be it a performance of Hamlet in Denmark or an English production of Hitler's last days), your best bet is to use your own (English) language, with a minimum of accent, since it doesn't make sense. I live in a country that (IMO today, unfortunately) dubs almost any foreign movie in its own language before it gets into the cinemas. But what it taught us is that when John Wayne or Jimmy Stewart or Sean Connery seems to talk German, they really speak English. You get used to it and never question why the hell they speak German, because you know they really don't.

    Now I hate dubbed movies and always watch the originals when possible. But in a setting where different languages are spoken, keeping the originals, combined with subtitles for the non-speakers of the foreign language make the most sense.

    Not really making a suggestion @j_w_pepper, just more of an observation on one of many aspects of DoD that made it feel different from the other films. Another example is the lack of a title sequence that typically sets the mood for a film. Instead we just get the “Disney/LucasFilm Present”, title, and just jump straight into the movie. No subtitle establishing location and year.

    And of course, the Paramount logo appears, but it’s modern and doesn’t dissolve into a mountain figure like in previous film. I suspect that was less of a conscious decision by Mangold and more Disney not wanting to give too much attention to a contractual company credit. It’s notable for being the only LucasFilm or even Marvel production to open with the Disney castle logo. I suspect that’s there for corporate egotism to let audiences know this is really their film and not Paramount’s.
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