SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • edited February 2013 Posts: 1,370

    @ LFH- Do I ever remember that CNN report, and I bought into it hook, line, and sinker. And I'm really glad that you agree with me that CR is not simply just a great Bond movie, it's a movie that even people who aren't into Bond enjoy, and looking at all the hordes of new Bond fans who Craig brought in you can't deny it's success.

    I'd only ever seen "Road To Perdition" with him prior to CR, with Dalton I'd only seen "The Doctor And The Devils", so I really didn't have much to go on. I'd looked for other films of Craig's I'd heard about such as "Munich" and "Layer Cake" but none seemed to be playing on cable at that time. The minute he rubbed out Dryden and his contact, I said "not bad, nice start". He just got better and better for me from there. Easily the best Bond film since LTK, and I don't think Skyfall topped it for me although I was otherwise mostly very pleased with it.

    The thing that first intrigued me about Craig was the first teaser trailer for CR. Here was some "character drama" right from the beginning that sucked me in, then a hint at the best cinematography in the series. Both the action and the scenery looked incredible:



    But even with the few short lines that he delivered, Craig showed presence. As someone who rated early Connery FAR above all the other Bonds it was great to see a manly, "two-fisted" agent again. The short bits of action from the teaser showed an actor that could physically convince as Bond for the first time since Connery and Lazenby. As a co-worker said "You know, if he was in a room with four guards I'd believe he could beat the sh!t out of them and escape".

    And further to another point that you made, it was great to hear co-workers and friends who claimed to not care about Bond films suddenly raving about CR. A former girlfriend said that she had always dismissed Bond films as "14 year old boys' wet dreams" until her sister insisted that she see CR and took her. She said that she had never gone to see a film with such low expectations and then been so blown away before. A similar thing happened with a friend of mine a year ago; after FIVE YEARS of friends telling him that he *must* see CR he finally relented and couldn't stop saying how amazing it was. And a big part of it was that, unlike the bits of Bond films he'd seen on TV over the years, Bond was a man's man now.

    CR, still making new Bond fans even years later!
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    edited February 2013 Posts: 7,571
    .



    DIE ANOTHER DAY (2002)

    Bond
    Still enjoying the benefits of his multi functional wrist watch and gadget laden vehicles (this time around Bond has an invisible car! Oo-er!)Bond's globe and bed hopping antics are reminiscent of the 1970s when Roger Moore strolled nonchalantly around the world. Barely able to control his libido he is almost slavering when Jinx appears in a bikini ill deigned to keep her goodies at bay. Lucky for Bond she's as tarty as him and they are at it in milli seconds. But of course that's another story.

    Anyway, Bond by numbers is under way as he drinks the correct martinis (tick), wears the tux and sleeps with a gun under his pillow (tick), drives an Aston (tick), beds at least two women (tick), flirts with Moneypenny and insults Q (tick). It's all there so we must be applauding and punching the air with delight. Yes? Well.....maybe not but we do have a well rounded Bond this time
    4/5

    Women
    Not baaaad really. Peaceful Fountains Of Desire scrubs up nicely and Miranda Frost reminds me of those great beauties who combined vivacious ness with vulnerability  like Grace Kelly and Audrey Hepburn, so marks for her. Jinx of course divides opinion. Some people hate her and some simply don't like her. I maintain she is drop dead gorgeous, but the character like others before her ( Tiffany, Anya) is created as a strong, independent woman and deteriorates into a hopeless and helpless maiden in distress. And her habit of pushing the tip of her tongue between open lips is frankly annoying. The fact that Bond and even Miranda end up doing the exact same thing leaves me screaming at the walls. Did the director not see it happening? If he did do we assume he saw it as some sort of smutty innuendo and left it in to tease us?

    And a pointless cameo from Madonna adds nothing to proceedings because she doesn't even fancy Bond (she fancies Miranda. Typical Madonna).
    3/5

    Villains
    Gustav Graves, who appeared out of nowhere (although we find out why later in the film), does his bit for Queen and country and for his troubles is knighted. I'm no expert, but a stranger with no past and only 12 months (maximum) service to his country will NOT get a knighthood. I mean for Gods sake it took 70 years to knight Bruce Forsyth!  So that irritated me for a start. And the character with his frightening resemblance to Rik Mayal can't be taken seriously.
    Zao who is Graves henchman is a diamond encrusted killer and comes across much better.
    Popov is Graves  quiet simpering sidekick and he adds nothing other than the film's funniest moment ('he beat your time boss').
    Mr Kil is unmemorable.
    For the 40th anniversary film DAD really does fall down in this department when one considers the rich legacy of great villains we have.
    1.5/5

    Action
    Dad starts of in fine form with an enjoyable hovercraft chase and some terrific surfing. There is a splendid sword duel between Bond and Graves, decent fisticuffs and some fine driving during the car chase on ice. However the film suffers from a lengthy (what was it..40 minutes? Seemed longer) climatic battle on the plane and five minutes that shook the very foundations of Eon and led to the franchise's overhaul - the tsunami sequence and the para surfing. It looked worse than some of the stuff in the Mummy 2.  

    So we have a series that reinvented the action film and inspired some of Hollywood's greatest creative artists that is suddenly in the blink of an eye reduced to this monstrous moment. Unforgivable.
    2.5/5

    Humour
    The smutty double entendres uttered by Bond and Jinx when they first meet reduced the film to the worst kind of 70s British sex comedy. There are a few funny moments as there is in most Bond films,  but barely worth re-creating here. And the jury is still out on the well received to some but ill conceived to others end joke when Moneypenny's dreams come true.
    Let's just say the humour in the context of DAD is more depressing than delighting.
    1/5

    Sadism
    The film's titles are uniquely and interestingly presented with the chance to see what happens to Bond after he is captured and before he is traded. Water torture along with various other methods are shown although not nearly as gruesome as the torture Bond endures in Casino Royale. And at the end, a healthy, hairy Bond is presented to the world as if the only torture he actually endured was being force fed.

     "Tell us what we want to know Mr Bond or we shall feed you another sausage."

    Of course The para surfing is torturous. Other than that...
    3/5

    Music
    I quite like the music, apart from Madonna's song. I was always interested to see whether this track would be a grower, something to be re-appraised and re evaluated in later years. Well over 10 years later it actually sounds worse.

    Some nice music, especially the Cuban section.
    3/5

    Locations
    Obviously a lot of doubling going on but the film takes place in South Korea, Hong Kong, Cuba, Iceland and London.
    So some lovely globe hopping represented best by the scenes in Cuba and Iceland.
    4/5


    Gadgets
    Many past glories are given an airing and I have no problem with that. 
    Bond is given a high frequency ring that shatters glass, a new Aston that disappears, and he uses the underwater breathing device from Thunderball. That's a nice touch when one considers the normally OTT Dad could have gone for anything from Bond's past. Using this small device is a neater, warmer nod to the series' heritage.
    Forced to give a high mark to Licence To Kill for it's gratuitous sadism I see no issue with doing the same to this film for the sheer scale of gadgets on show.
    4/5

    Supporting Cast
    M, Moneypenny, Robinson all appear along with our new, taller Q.  I was quite happy with John Cleese's casting but sadly the need to reinvent meant he was disposable.
    We have NSA shouty man Falco. I could've done with a little less of him. 
    Raoul, Bonds man in Cuba is sadly underused. Legend has it he filmed additional scenes with Bond that were cut. Probably to squeeze in a bit of para surfing...yes that would be it. He could have been the 21st century Kerim Bey but sadly this would go against the desire of the director to keep the film pumping along at breakneck speed.
    Madonna plays a cameo. Never having a chance to develop anything akin to a character, she is there just for audiences to say 'oh look, it's Madonna'. And of course that is exactly what they did do.
    There are some fine Korean actors adding a positive edge to things, but the cast, similar to many aspects of the film, doesn't match up to what we deserve for this iconic anniversary year.
    3/5

    Overall score and recollection. 29/50

    Hard to recall my first impressions, other than the fact like others I was quite happy with how things were going until the final act which dragged on and on. The para surfing was awful, yes, but I pretended that if I hadn't noticed how bad it was then no one else would.
    In the end the invisible car got more negative attention than that one scene. And the car really didn't bother me unduly. I was used to Bond being somewhat other worldly..

    So now I look back on PBs tenure and I agree with many others that the films reduced in worth as they were released. Eon were correct to see the need for change. Unlike Cubby who gained comfort from familiarity and liked to keep the same people around him (even the aging Roger Moore), Michael Wilson and Barbara Broccoli were more up for a challenge and quite prepared to throw everything out and start again. It was a brave move but it brought something quite startling to the franchise - the first actor since Sean Connery to look completely undaunted by the task at hand.
  • @ Nic- A terrific review, I really enjoyed it and will have comment on it tomorrow. First up is posting updated ratings before meeting some buddies at Philly's finest cigar bar for some drinks and a good stogie.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Updated ratings from the originals after 20 films, as of 6PM U.S EST-


    1. Goldfinger- 4.23
    2. From Russia With Love- 4.20
    3. The Living Daylights- 4.12
    4. Thunderball- 4.10
    5. Licence To Kill- 4.06
    6. The Spy Who Loved Me- 4.05
    7. On Her Majesty's Secret Service- 4.00
    8. You Only Live Twice- 3.92
    9. For Your Eyes Only- 3.90
    10. Live And Let Die- 3.83
    11. Octopussy- 3.73
    12. GoldenEye (5/6 reviews)- 3.68
    13. Dr. No- 3.62
    14. Tomorrow Never Dies (4/6 reviews)- 3.43
    15. A View To A Kill- 3.28
    16. The Man With The Golden Gun- 3.13
    17. The World Is Not Enough (4/6 reviews)- 3.10
    18. Diamonds Are Forever- 3.02
    19. Moonraker- 2.97
    20. Die Another Day (4/6 reviews)- 2.70


    Some nice reviews by Lancaster and Nic helped put Die Another Day on the board this week, and so we continue to progress. To no one's surprise, it's in the basement. Below is the updated list, as I've been the only one to submit a CR review there's no sense in mentioning names-


    GOLDENEYE- No vote from Kerim
    TOMORROW NEVER DIES- No votes from 4EverBonded and Kerim
    THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH- No votes from 4EverBonded and Kerim
    DIE ANOTHER DAY- No votes from 4EverBonded, and Kerim


    It feels like an off week for launching the next film, so we'll take a break from a new film so 4Ever can catch up a bit and CR reviews that I greatly look forward to can commence. Have a great weekend everyone, and be safe :)
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    NicNac wrote:
    .
    Sadism
    The film's titles are uniquely and interestingly presented with the chance to see what happens to Bond after he is captured and before he is traded. Water torture along with various other methods are shown although not nearly as gruesome as the torture Bond endures in Casino Royale. And at the end, a healthy, hairy Bond is presented to the world as if the only torture he actually endured was being force fed.

     "Tell us what we want to know Mr Bond or we shall feed you another sausage."


    Of course The para surfing is torturous. Other than that...
    3/5

    =)) You have no idea how much you made me laugh with this one!
  • Posts: 11,189
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 3,494
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    I'd agree with that, but strictly in character terms and acting performance. I agree with him that Halle is a stunning woman on a physical level, her features are about perfect, don't care for her haircut then or now but I'd make an exception in her case ;)

    Another puzzling statement Nic makes here is "the jury is still out on the well received to some but ill conceived to others end joke when Moneypenny's dreams come true". I never realized anyone with a sense of Bond history would receive this well on any level. All that was missing was "Dirk Diggler" entering the scene naked with his oversized schlong =)) It makes Moneypenny look as tarty as Jinx and to me is the ultimate example of why I mostly loathed this version, for someone raised on Lois I cannot seriously rationalize that this and all the smutty lines were a positive change in the character. Even Caroline Bliss' version, which I didn't much care for either and am not defending as necessarily better, was at least on point in the spirit of her flirtations.

    Agreed with two other things Nic says. One is about the "speed knighting" of Graves. Short of Bond and English roast beef (the best) I don't claim to be an expert on all things British, but I did know this doesn't happen overnight. You'd have do a lot more than what the script said he did. That would likely include walking the Queen's dogs and perhaps even wiping her ass a few times ;) A very informative observation, as well as Nic's note about how utterly undaunted Craig has been in the role. Even a rookie Lazenby seemed less daunted than Pierce, who clearly settled for all the box ticking Nic noted and didn't seem to be trying too hard to do more than just get by.

    I'm with Sandy, the sausage comment was f'n hilarious!

  • Another puzzling statement Nic makes here is "the jury is still out on the well received to some but ill conceived to others end joke when Moneypenny's dreams come true". I never realized anyone with a sense of Bond history would receive this well on any level. All that was missing was "Dirk Diggler" entering the scene naked with his oversized schlong =)) It makes Moneypenny look as tarty as Jinx and to me is the ultimate example of why I mostly loathed this version, for someone raised on Lois I cannot seriously rationalize that this and all the smutty lines were a positive change in the character. Even Caroline Bliss' version, which I didn't much care for either and am not defending as necessarily better, was at least on point in the spirit of her flirtations.

    It's funny how my thoughts on Moneypenny have changed over the years. Like many younger guys, when I was 14 I'd have probably wanted some 22 year old incredibly gorgeous actress playing Moneypenny. But that's because a 14 year old guy can often have limited views of women - to paraphrase a line from a sitcom, when you're a teenage guy there are only two types of women in the world - ones you're related to and ones you want to have sex with. So the fact that MP flirted with Bond made my 14 year old self think that she desperately wanted to sleep with him!

    But now that I'm older and have more life experience I appreciate that MP would NEVER sleep with Bond, nor really want to. Watching the Lois Maxwell/Sean Connery scenes as an adult, it's surprising how clear it is that it's two adults who would never get together just having some fun banter. They might have an appreciation for attractive the other is, but they would never act on it. That's why the VR sequence is DAD makes MP just sad and desperate.

    It looks to me like the character is in good hands now...
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Maxwell, to me at least, pines after Bond in the early Connery films. I think it's fairly clear she fancies him at least a bit and, if given the chance, would want to sleep with him (or at least let him wine and dine her).

    I recall hearing of an interview with Maxwell in which she suggests that Bond and Mp had, some years back, spent a weekend together and may or may not have had sex. However for professional reasons they had decided to keep their relationship plutonic. That's quite nice and fits the character.

    To me, while Maxwell never seemed desperate (although she does make some rather unsubtle remarks about an engagement ring) I can't help thinking that she would sleep with Bond if allowed the opportunity. She does come across as a bit "piney" to me. Not that that's a bad thing.

    Then again I'm still fairly young and my experience at reading women hasn't always been great :p

    I'm not even going to discuss Caroline Bliss who I always felt was a desperate schoolgirl with a crush on a nervous looking teacher.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    I'd agree with that, but strictly in character terms and acting performance. I agree with him that Halle is a stunning woman on a physical level, her features are about perfect, don't care for her haircut then or now but I'd make an exception in her case ;)

    Another puzzling statement Nic makes here is "the jury is still out on the well received to some but ill conceived to others end joke when Moneypenny's dreams come true". I never realized anyone with a sense of Bond history would receive this well on any level. All that was missing was "Dirk Diggler" entering the scene naked with his oversized schlong =)) It makes Moneypenny look as tarty as Jinx and to me is the ultimate example of why I mostly loathed this version, for someone raised on Lois I cannot seriously rationalize that this and all the smutty lines were a positive change in the character. Even Caroline Bliss' version, which I didn't much care for either and am not defending as necessarily better, was at least on point in the spirit of her flirtations.

    Agreed with two other things Nic says. One is about the "speed knighting" of Graves. Short of Bond and English roast beef (the best) I don't claim to be an expert on all things British, but I did know this doesn't happen overnight. You'd have do a lot more than what the script said he did. That would likely include walking the Queen's dogs and perhaps even wiping her ass a few times ;) A very informative observation, as well as Nic's note about how utterly undaunted Craig has been in the role. Even a rookie Lazenby seemed less daunted than Pierce, who clearly settled for all the box ticking Nic noted and didn't seem to be trying too hard to do more than just get by.

    I'm with Sandy, the sausage comment was f'n hilarious!

    Well, my comment about Jinx was tongue in cheek really.
    'Jinx of course divides opinion. Some people hate her and some simply don't like her' is what I wrote ;-)

    The Moneypenny gag received the biggest laugh of the night at both screenings I went to, and has been remarked on by the odd critic as an amusing moment.
    I can see why it was well received in some quarters as the punch line is unexpected and of course John Cleese's comic timing is second to none. I for one smiled at it the first time but somehow the charm of the moment (if that's what it is) has lessened over the years and now I wish it didn't exist.
    Oh, and my wife thinks it's funny as well....bless her.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    I must admit @NicNac, the same thing happened at the screening I was at in 2002. That scene had a big laugh.

    To be honest there are plenty of other scenes in DAD I'd take out before that one as I always thought the music was quite sweet and I like the way Brosnan walks into the office.
  • @ Nic- I know you are very aware of what you type and are excellent at catching people quoting you out of context ;). I did get the humor in the statement.

    @ BAIN- I can understand why the odd critic who may or may not be a Bond fan, or casual moviegoer equally unfamiliar might laugh at the VR scene, but SB's Moneypenny is antithetical to the character I know and love. This statement is no surprise to anyone who has been here on this Forum for a long period of time. Sure we can discuss Lois' take in comparison, but it's one that I felt was always very light hearted in it's focus. She is giggling about the ring thing, as is Bond- you can see him thinking up a comeback- they both know the other is not serious about taking the flirting to another level. I never thought at any time, ever, that it was anything more than what it was. The VR scene however betrays that notion to the core, definitely a "holy shit, how is this happening" kind of moment the first time you see it, then lightened up considerably when you realize it's a gag. I can understand the laughter in this aspect. I just felt it was another of P&W's ill conceived ideas to begin with, although I could also see Barb having a hand in this direction. One thing I am positive about is that Cubby would not have gone along.

    There are other moments in SB's tenure that betray prior notions. Smutty dialogue aside, let's revisit TWINE and the scene where Moneypenny takes Warmflash to task. She comes off straight up jealous that Bond slept with her, and in this case the dialogue makes it apparent they'd been intimate before the exam. This is not what Lois' character would have done, snide remark possible but said in a low key tone not so blatantly obvious. And certainly she would have never followed Warmflash off camera to presumably continue to express her displeasure. When I look at it as a big picture, Moneypenny 1995-2002 was mostly antithetical to Moneypenny 1962-1989. This one would have slept with Bond given the chance, the VR makes that very clear to me.

    Before moving on to our new Moneypenny, I feel conjecture about Bond and Moneypenny ever sleeping with the other to be just that. Fleming never wrote about it, and his answer to the question when asked was that he "supposed" it could have happened. When even the author and creator can't answer confidently, we should never presume to know the answer either. Interestingly though, with SF telling the story about how Bond and Moneypenny met, here was a chance to answer that. And we saw what the answer was, which was flirtation was one thing but more than that was not going to happen. It was the perfect time to do it, alone in Macao, no one to ever know, but it doesn't happen because it never did. I really enjoyed Harris and the interaction with Bond, it showed the same type of class that Lois brought us. The jury over here is still out on our new Q, but Harris' take met all my expectations and hopefully they won't slip back into the Brosnan era in this respect.


  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    @ Nic- I know you are very aware of what you type and are excellent at catching people quoting you out of context ;). I did get the humor in the statement.

    @ BAIN- I can understand why the odd critic who may or may not be a Bond fan, or casual moviegoer equally unfamiliar might laugh at the VR scene, but SB's Moneypenny is antithetical to the character I know and love. This statement is no surprise to anyone who has been here on this Forum for a long period of time. Sure we can discuss Lois' take in comparison, but it's one that I felt was always very light hearted in it's focus. She is giggling about the ring thing, as is Bond- you can see him thinking up a comeback- they both know the other is not serious about taking the flirting to another level. I never thought at any time, ever, that it was anything more than what it was. The VR scene however betrays that notion to the core, definitely a "holy shit, how is this happening" kind of moment the first time you see it, then lightened up considerably when you realize it's a gag. I can understand the laughter in this aspect. I just felt it was another of P&W's ill conceived ideas to begin with, although I could also see Barb having a hand in this direction. One thing I am positive about is that Cubby would not have gone along.

    There are other moments in SB's tenure that betray prior notions. Smutty dialogue aside, let's revisit TWINE and the scene where Moneypenny takes Warmflash to task. She comes off straight up jealous that Bond slept with her, and in this case the dialogue makes it apparent they'd been intimate before the exam. This is not what Lois' character would have done, snide remark possible but said in a low key tone not so blatantly obvious. And certainly she would have never followed Warmflash off camera to presumably continue to express her displeasure. When I look at it as a big picture, Moneypenny 1995-2002 was mostly antithetical to Moneypenny 1962-1989. This one would have slept with Bond given the chance, the VR makes that very clear to me.

    Before moving on to our new Moneypenny, I feel conjecture about Bond and Moneypenny ever sleeping with the other to be just that. Fleming never wrote about it, and his answer to the question when asked was that he "supposed" it could have happened. When even the author and creator can't answer confidently, we should never presume to know the answer either. Interestingly though, with SF telling the story about how Bond and Moneypenny met, here was a chance to answer that. And we saw what the answer was, which was flirtation was one thing but more than that was not going to happen. It was the perfect time to do it, alone in Macao, no one to ever know, but it doesn't happen because it never did. I really enjoyed Harris and the interaction with Bond, it showed the same type of class that Lois brought us. The jury over here is still out on our new Q, but Harris' take met all my expectations and hopefully they won't slip back into the Brosnan era in this respect.


    Sooo....not a fan then? ;)
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    Hate the character but she's very nice to look at. One of the hottest Bond girls.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    Hate the character but she's very nice to look at. One of the hottest Bond girls.

    What a world this would be if looks were all that mattered in every conceivable facet of society.

    EON had the same idea you had, and look what that got us. Halle is okay, not spectacular at all, and on top of that she can't act her way out of a box.
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    Hate the character but she's very nice to look at. One of the hottest Bond girls.

    What a world this would be if looks were all that mattered in every conceivable facet of society.

    EON had the same idea you had, and look what that got us. Halle is okay, not spectacular at all, and on top of that she can't act her way out of a box.

    I'm not really a casanova myself but I don't think Halle is all THAT attractive personally. I prefer Rosmund Pike.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    Hate the character but she's very nice to look at. One of the hottest Bond girls.

    What a world this would be if looks were all that mattered in every conceivable facet of society.

    EON had the same idea you had, and look what that got us. Halle is okay, not spectacular at all, and on top of that she can't act her way out of a box.

    I'm not really a casanova myself but I don't think Halle is all THAT attractive personally. I prefer Rosmund Pike.
    Compared to NATURAL women of primarily the 40s, 50s and then into the 60s, no women of today could even begin to match their beauty.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    Hate the character but she's very nice to look at. One of the hottest Bond girls.

    What a world this would be if looks were all that mattered in every conceivable facet of society.

    EON had the same idea you had, and look what that got us. Halle is okay, not spectacular at all, and on top of that she can't act her way out of a box.

    I'm not really a casanova myself but I don't think Halle is all THAT attractive personally. I prefer Rosmund Pike.
    Compared to NATURAL women of primarily the 40s, 50s and then into the 60s, no women of today could even begin to match their beauty.

    Now that you've checked in Brady, what did you think of my CR review? Did I do your girl and perhaps favorite Bond movie justice?

    I'm surprised, the way you speak of Eva, that you wouldn't put her in the classic women of the 40's-60's category. Who I thought used their fair share of makeup too ;)

  • Posts: 2,341
    Good review SirHenry. CR is a grand film and I have a hard time deciding which is better CR or SF.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    I'm back! First of all let me say to SirHenry how much I appreciate his concern about me! Not to worry, I'm in good health and very much alive! Like Baltimore, when this thread started I had also been under the mistaken belief that we were only going to review the first seven films. However, like Baltimore who came back to review "Moonraker," I feel I owe it to the film and Daniel Craig to review "Casino Royale." I couldn't agree more with Lancaster, SirHenry's review is so comprehensve that there's really not much more for the rest of us to say. I've also been out of the loop for quite a while, unlike the rest of you, so again please excuse me if my analysis isn't as sharp as my previous entries. With that, Casino Royale (2006), my review.

    BOND- 5 out of 5. Daniel Craig is the best James Bond since Sean Connery. You definitely believe that he could be an SIS agent for MI6. The cold blooded manner in which he "dispenses" with his two targeted assigments in the PTS is the most ruthless since Connery's killing of Professor Dent in Dr. No; "It's a Smith and Wesson. And you've had your six." The chase scene in the Miami airport is phenomenal. His back and forth flirtation with Vesper on the train is one of the best interactions with a woman in the entire series. And the fear he displays after he is captured and stripped naked and knows he's about to be tortured is reminiscent of Connery's on the Orient Express with Grant in FRWL.

    WOMEN- 5 out of 5. Eva Green's portrayal of Vesper Lynd is perfect. The girl who plays the wife of Dimitrious (the one seduced by Bond and then killed for it) is also very good. Btw, what is it with all the women who are murdered after having sex with 007? Jill Masterson in Goldfinger, the Japanese girl in YOLT, the girl killed by the dogs in Moonraker. You'd think after sleeping with James Bond the least the villains could do is let them tell their friends about it first. But I digress. Ahem, getting back to "Casino Royale" the blond girlfriend of Le Chiffre is also pretty hot.

    VILLAINS- 4 out 5. Mads Mikkelsen is excellent as Le Chiffre. His interaction with Bond during the poker game is superb, especially when he beats Bond during the first big hand. Also his frustration and annoyance when everyone else at the table orders Bond's favorite beverage is priceless. But his best acting is during the torture scene. The way he casually says "I've never understood these elaborate tortures. There is one part of a man's body that when struck will cause unbelievable pain." Best line since Goldfinger's "No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!" The other villains, Dimitrious and the guy Bond kills at the airport are just so so.

    HUMOR- 2 out of 5. Not a lot, which in this film is appropriate. The most memorable line, "That's because you know what I can do with my little finger."

    ACTION- 3 out of 5. Again not a lot. The fight in the bathroom in the PTS. Yje chase at the Miami airport. The fight in the stairwell. The gunfight in Venice at the end.

    SADISM- 5 out of 5. Is there anything anyone could possibly do to Bond that could be worse? If Le Chiffre is to be believed, Bond is just seconds away from being castrated! Even the laser in "Goldfinger" probably would have killed him first!

    MUSIC- 5 out of 5. From the opening credits to the scene on the train, phenomenal. The best score since "Thunderball."

    LOCATIONS- 4 out of 5. As I said in my review of Thunderball, how do you top the Bahamas? The casino in Montenegro is just so so. You've seen one casino, you've pretty much seen them all.

    GADGETS- 2 out of 5. How many gadgets are there? There's the one in the car that saves Bond's life after he's poisoned. And the one in Bond's arm that is being used as a homer until Le Chiffre has it surgically removed.

    SUPPORTING CAST- 3 out of 5. Judi Dench does an adequte role as M. And Jeffrey Wright gives a believable portrayal of Felix Leiter.

    OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS- I haven't totalled all my individual scores but I'd have to say this film is at least 4.5 out of 5. As has been said, one of the top films of the series!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    Hate the character but she's very nice to look at. One of the hottest Bond girls.

    What a world this would be if looks were all that mattered in every conceivable facet of society.

    EON had the same idea you had, and look what that got us. Halle is okay, not spectacular at all, and on top of that she can't act her way out of a box.

    I'm not really a casanova myself but I don't think Halle is all THAT attractive personally. I prefer Rosmund Pike.
    Compared to NATURAL women of primarily the 40s, 50s and then into the 60s, no women of today could even begin to match their beauty.

    Now that you've checked in Brady, what did you think of my CR review? Did I do your girl and perhaps favorite Bond movie justice?

    I'm surprised, the way you speak of Eva, that you wouldn't put her in the classic women of the 40's-60's category. Who I thought used their fair share of makeup too ;)
    I will read it soon, but yes: I love Eva so much because she really evokes that era, with classic beauty and elegance and puts most other women to shame. Oh no...my heart...it's doing it again. :x
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    Hate the character but she's very nice to look at. One of the hottest Bond girls.

    What a world this would be if looks were all that mattered in every conceivable facet of society.

    EON had the same idea you had, and look what that got us. Halle is okay, not spectacular at all, and on top of that she can't act her way out of a box.

    I never said looks were all that mattered, like I said, she was crap in Die Another Day.

    I just said Halle Berry was fit. And she is. Great pair of tits, great body, pretty face, etc. Would you turn her down?
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 2,081
    I took this thread to be an exclusive club sort of thing, and being too young myself (I'm the same age as Mr Craig... well, he's about to get ahead, but I'll catch up later in the spring), I had never even taken a look inside before. But there is only so long I could resist taking a peek when the thread title has "Casino Royale Reviews" in it, so finally today I decided I need to read at least that part. Thanks to SirHenry and everyone else, very interesting reading. :)

    I think I'll need to watch CR again, soon. :x
  • Tuulia wrote:
    I took this thread to be an exclusive club sort of thing, and being too young myself (I'm the same age as Mr Craig... well, he's about to get ahead, but I'll catch up later in the spring), I had never even taken a look inside before. But there is only so long I could resist taking a peek when the thread title has "Casino Royale Reviews" in it, so finally today I decided I need to read at least that part. Thanks to SirHenry and everyone else, very interesting reading. :)

    I think I'll need to watch CR again, soon. :x

    Tuulia, we originals welcome any and all reasonable opinions/thoughts on any of the films. We want to answer any and all questions in the spirit of education. We lived through the times and watched the films when Connery was Bond, as well as Lazenby for his one-off. The only restriction here is that you must be an original fan and be willing to review all 23 films if you wish for your point tally to count in the ratings we are keeping. So please feel free to participate and feel welcomed :)

    Sir Henry



  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With all due respect @NicNac I don't think Jinx "divides opinion". I think most people hate her :p

    Hate the character but she's very nice to look at. One of the hottest Bond girls.

    What a world this would be if looks were all that mattered in every conceivable facet of society.

    EON had the same idea you had, and look what that got us. Halle is okay, not spectacular at all, and on top of that she can't act her way out of a box.

    I never said looks were all that mattered, like I said, she was crap in Die Another Day.

    I just said Halle Berry was fit. And she is. Great pair of tits, great body, pretty face, etc. Would you turn her down?

    I wasn't aiming my statement at you, just simply ranting out loud as I have heard many say that looks is all that matter or that they expect.

    @SirHenryLeeChaChing, your review of Casino Royale was immaculate, and you did it and Eva some real justice. ;) I loved your very in-depth analysis of the score, something I was deadly interested in and loved the way you went through the tracks and gave some great background to them and described what they evoked to you. I have one little correction to note: When you are speaking of the Aston and wondering whether it was Dimitrios or Bond who had the defibrillator installed, it isn't the DB5 Bond goes to to get it, but the DBS that he is given by MI6 upon his arrival in Montenegro. The last time we see the DB5 is when Bond leaves Solange to get to Dimitrios in Miami. Just a minor correction.

    Like I said, it is a stellar review, very insightful and an enjoyable read about my favorite Bond film. :)
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Don't worry, the second is…

    Casino Royale

    BOND- 4. After the 'tick the boxes' movies with 'tick the box' Brosnan and a way over the top 40th Anniversary film it was time for a change. DC's appointment caused quite a bit of upset, mainly because he doesn't 'look' like Bond (and that is still my main drawback with Craig), but some got too upset, saying the would boycott the film unless PB was brought back as Bond! Having seen DC in quite a few things, the most notable being the TV drama Our Friends In The North, I was quite interested in seeing what he would bring to the role. I can't say I was as excited as when Timothy Dalton was announced, as I believe he was and is the best Bond, but I thought the possibility worth seeing.
    He may not have the look, but he certainly has the acting chops and made the role his own from the first - a quite brilliant, understated b&w PTS, and now the world seemed to be ready for a more human, brutal Bond, unfortunately Dalton was too soon after Moore for most people to accept his interpretation of 007. But they were ready now!

    WOMEN- 5. Vesper is the quintessential Bond girl, Eva Green was just as if Fleming's 1950s model had been update to the 21st century, perhaps the best film version of a Fleming Bond Girl. Solange is also top of the shop totty, the sacrificial lamb who is Bond's favourite type of girl - married.

    VILLAINS- 5. At last Le Chiffre comes to screen, not as described by Fleming, but a top draw villain anyhow. Dimitrios, Obanno and the mysterious Mr White make for a great collection of bad guys.

    HUMOR- 4. There is humour in CR but it is not the usual style. Bond's cutting off of Dryden's line, the freerunning where Foucan snakes his way feet first through a small opening and Bond just bursts right through the wall, Bond being mistaken for a hotel employee and then parking the German's car! Makes me laugh every time.

    ACTION-4. Plenty of well choreographed action, the free running at the beginning (I have seen some people refer to this as the PTS - where they actually watching the film?), the excellent Miami airport set piece where instead of seeing the villain blow up we just hear it and watch Bond's expression change, the brutal stairwell fight, the Venice gunfight and house sinking - and not a shaky camera in sight!

    SADISM- 4. Just the ball-whacking scene alone is enough to bring tears to most people's eyes, but there is also the implied sadism with Obanno and Le Chiffre's squeeze. About as much as they could get away with in 12 cert film.

    MUSIC-4. Another cracking score from Arnold, and a brilliant theme song by Cornell. I hadn't heard this before going to the theatre and so wasn't quite sure on first listen but it has grown on me with each subsequent viewing of the film and is now one of my favourite themes.

    LOCATIONS-4. Good set of locations all brilliantly shot, recalling the glamour of the 60s Bonds. A fantastic film to watch.

    GADGETS- 3. Back to basics means no over-the-top gadgets. Just a couple to keep with the Bond tradition and of course Bond gets to win the DB5 - okay so it's not a gadget but it is iconic Bond.

    SUPPORTING CAST- 5. Just brilliant. From Foucan as the first bomber, Jesper Christiansen as the enigmatic Mr White, no Q or Moneypenny, but then I didn't really miss them. A whole host of goodie and baddie support that just work no one seems out of place in this brilliant film…except, maybe Judi Dench. I'm still not sure if it was right to keep her as M, as brilliant as she is, she does sort of tie in to Brosnan's tenure. But then we wouldn't have had Skyfall, or maybe not the Skyfall we have.

    OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS- 42. Well this film certainly caused a lot of ballyhoo. Poor old Daniel was damned before anyone had seen the film. I just had a feeling it was going to be a good film. And anything had got to be better than Dire Another Day! It seems that everyone upped their game for this one, great story, great action, great acting, etc. From the mono down-to-earth PTS that goes into perhaps the best, and I mean best, title sequence in the series. DK titles are awesome they fit the film in both style and content that I don't think they could be bettered. And of course in those titles was one legend I never thought I'd see on any Bond title ever again. Based on the novel by Ian Fleming. That brought a smile to my face and warm feeling too!
    A reboot of Bond and a cracking one at that. Although I have to say that in the theatre where I watched it there were some old friends who said at the end of it that they could see DC being another dull Bond like Tim Dalton! I just couldn't believe they didn't get it.
    For me this is at No. 3 after FRWL and OHMSS, a true classic Bond adventure that I love to watch and re-watch. There is so much good stuff in this film that it's hard to imagine it came after DAD, but then if DAD hadn't been so OTT we might not have got the CR we have now. Every cloud has a silver lining.
    I still don't think that Craig 'looks' like Bond and while he isn't my favourite Bond, that will always be Dalton, he is certainly up there with Connery. And I look forward to Bond 24, especially as we have RF as M (and back in a traditional looking office - hated Dench's M's office, bloody awful). Bring it on.

    Can I just say thanks to Sir Henry for starting this thread, and for all the hard work he puts into his reviews. I always look forward to see what he has written, and tend to agree with most of it! We do seem to have a similar mind-set where Bond is concerned. Keep up the good work, all us Originals appreciate it. And I really like reading what the other Originals have written too, even if I don't comment I get a great deal of pleasure from it. Cheers.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,029
    Great review @Lancaster! A joy to read! And I will amend to your final statement. I may not me an original ( I blame my parents for that. But then again, if they had tried it would've been very illigal) but I thoroughly enjoy this thread, it's the first one I read when I come back.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 12,837
    I'm looking forward to the QOS reviews. I know what one or two of you think of it but I'd like to see if the overall view is positive or negative.

    I think it divides opinions more than any other Bond movie so it'll be intresting to see what you lot think of it.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited March 2014 Posts: 12,459
    Tomorrow Never Dies

    We're going to finish this together.

    BOND - 5 out of 5 Ah, here Pierce finds his own take on Bond - and he is in grand form indeed. Elegant yet rougher, definitely tougher, and a more fully well rounded Bond. Brosnan is clearly more comfortable as James Bond, and he shows us several facets of Bond's character, including a moving glimpse of the pain and emotional core that is buried deep inside. Pierce's moments as Bond in his hotel room, with Paris lying there dead, were simultaneously touching, achingly real, and very Bond. One of my favorite scenes of Brosnan's, ever. His give and take with the truly twisted (and oddly humorous in this otherwise grim and dramatic setting) Dr. Kaufman was, I thought, absolutely perfect. You could see Bond seizing up inside, solidifying his cold determination to kill Kaufman for what he did to Paris, and at the same time he is connected to her with genuine love and regret. Indeed, even just the brief scene of him waiting in his hotel room, downing vodka, and Paris shows up; that was well done, too. The rest of the film showed Brosnan in control, very good during the action scenes, and with excellent rapport with Q and Wai Lin, in particular. He handled the one liners with more ease, too. Overall, very satisfying and a Bond I love to watch again and again.

    WOMEN- 4 out of 5 And that is all for the incredibly talented Michelle Yeoh as Wai Lin. I like her partnership with Bond very much, they have a nice chemistry that is mostly professional, yet becomes more personal (I really enjoyed the shower scene after the bike chase/helicopter explosion and the finale). She has the goods, for sure; 100% believable as a Chinese agent. She kicks ass with the best of them, could do all of her stunts (and the director should have let her!), and can act (what a plus!). Her casting was an inspired choice. The main romantic Bond girl here is Paris, played with a barely concealed yawn by Teri Hatcher. As much as I enjoyed this film in the theatre and throughout the years, I never liked her take on Paris. I felt she was barely participating in the role. And for heaven's sake, someone should have been able to fix that little bump between her eyes! (pimple? defect? what??) Both that and her hair annoyed me. I don't want to be annoyed by those kinds of stupid distractions in a Bond film. If she had acted well, say actually been emotionally charged, I probably wouldn't have noticed. Not much else happening in the female department in this one. Oh yes, the little Danish. Maybe she and Teri should have changed roles. Thank goodness for Yeoh.

    VILLAINS- 2.5 out of 5 Jonathan Pryce plays Elliot Carver with a certain amount of glee, yet he is such a wuss, a bland nondescript tycoon that one wonders how he could have really controlled such a mega enterprise. Not impressed with him. Carver is petulant and manipulative but not villainous. Pryce just rolls his lines out like a summer picnic rehearsal; not menacing. He is funny when he imitates Yeoh's martial arts moves. But overall, I find him pathetic and not a strong villain. Mr. Stamper is cold, efficient, doesn't have many good lines, can withstand pain, is brutal; yet I felt it would have been better if his character was not German (throwback I didn't care for). Gupta is unscrupulous but mostly unmemorable. So even with all the crew machine gunning and killing and running around, there is no pulsating sense of a strong or memorable villain or henchman. Not so good. Fortunately, the story moves along, though. (I checked SirHenry's review again and he put Dr. Kaufman in the supporting cast category, not villains, so that is where I am putting the one vivid character who did stand out.)


    HUMOR- 4 out of 5 I thought the humor here was well done, well placed, and delivered nicely throughout. I enjoyed the humor in TND; I didn't think if was OTT or too much. It is a tricky thing to get the humor just right in a Bond film. I especially liked Brosnan's chemistry and humor with Q and Wai Lin. Throughout his tenure, Brosnan has a real warmth, an affectionate, solid partnership with Q. And let me say on record, I don't mind Samantha's Moneypenny one bit; she makes me smile. I enjoy her give and take with Brosnan throughout the series (some readers' hands now being thrown up in despair and disagreement). And it must be said one of the funniest parts is the assassin, Dr. Kaufman, coming up in another category soon. TND had a nice balance of humor.

    ACTION- 4.5 out of 5 I love this film's PTS - it's full of tension, humor, action, and excitement. It lets us know there is plenty of action to come in this outing. I especially enjoy M and the Admiral's repartee. As the movie goes along, more action picks up - and there is a lot of machine gunning, indiscriminate killing in this one. It feels like an Action Film for sure. But that didn't get in the way of it still being a Bond film, so I was okay with it. I especially love the motorbike chase. I think that is a great action scene! Exciting, fun, and it builds to a lovely ending (blowing up the helicopter, diving into the water tank, then later showering together outdoors). The final attack on the stealth boat has some good moments, including Carver's messy death which he deserved, and the very end with Bond diving into the water to rescue Wai Lin - dramatic. very enjoyable, and well performed.

    SADISM- 2.5 out of 5 Sadistic Dr. Kaufman is introduced but we don't see him actually at work and Paris looks dead, yet not mutilated (thank goodness). We don't see any torture scenes. Carver's bloody death by drill is sadistic, yet there really isn't much sadism in this film.


    MUSIC- 4 out of 5 I am not a music expert by any means, but I know what I like in a Bond film. I thought this was one category that was a big improvement over Goldeneye (where the music was my major disappointment in an otherwise stellar effort). We get the Bond theme used throughout and in a good way, and the lovely rendering of the song, "Surrender" is so beautifully used throughout the entire film. I especially love the way it comes in at the very end as Bond rescues Wai Lin. "Kowloon Bay" and "Paris and Bond" - just gorgeous, so fitting. I just love the overall effect of the music in this film. It feels like a continuance of the Barry magic. The music fits the scenes well, like a warm caress or a vibrant pulse. I don't care for the main Bond theme was that used up front; it is just okay, but sounds like a rather tepid (wake up, Sheryl!) effort to do a "Bond" ish song. I am very happy with Arnold's work on this one; it is my favorite soundtrack that he has done, actually.


    LOCATIONS- 3.5 out of 5 Very nice, lovely, and the locations fit the story. Not a lot of globe hopping. A too brief glimpse of Oxford, and Hamburg looks good - but Phuket is stunning and lovingly filmed.


    GADGETS- 4.5 out of 5 Great gadgets! The remote controlled car is fun, the cell phone that stuns and scans fingerprints, the many "extras" on the BMW (including a wire cutter that just happens to be lined up at the correct height to cut the steel cable when it is needed!), tires that instantly reinflate, etc. - and also Wai Lin's private office is loaded. What else? Plenty here, and I probably forgot a couple of good ones.

    SUPPORTING CAST- 4 out of 5 M is fine, in good form; Moneypenny is on track to become annoying to many but still enjoyable for me; and Q is lovely - older yet still sharp and has such good rapport with Brosnan. Joe Don Baker comes in for a brief appearance as Jack Wade, the boisterous USA agent. And along comes the man who shines as one of the best supporting characters in the series: Vincent Schiavelli as Doctor Kaufman, the twisted, sadistic and totally deadpan assassin who kills Paris. His accent alone is hilarious, but he also adds such a gem of comic touch to his mannerisms, expression, and even just tilt of his head. Rather over the top, yet not in an annoying way; oh no, he is memorable in a good way. And Brosnan goes toe to toe with him nicely. It is a 4 rating for me because of Schiavelli elevating this film, for the rather brief time he is on screen.

    OVERALL RECOLLECTIONS- I well remember seeing TND in the theatre. I was a very happy Bond viewer right from the PTS to the finale. And I remember the audience cheering during the PTS. I remember thinking, "That was great fun!" after the PTS and hoping the film would live up to that. I had enjoyed Goldeneye very much, yet I wanted this film to move on, be a bit different. It was - with Yeoh coming in as his ass-kicking partner, Brosnan smoothly taking control as Bond with an assured, strong, and nuanced performance, and the regular supporting cast shining nicely ... and more action than ever.
    There are a few things I notice about TND, especially since I watched it yesterday with a fresher, more critical eye: The action builds, is more indiscriminate (machine guns galore), and you almost cannot catch your breath. Yet it doesn't quite go overboard. It just pulls it together enough to hum along, and I credit Brosnan and Yeoh for that, for having me care about them and for being so competent. The best action sequence for me is the bike chase; it is still a standout. Also, I agree with others that there is a retro feel about the film; cold war-ish atmosphere in the background, as well as the fine Barry feel to the soundtrack. Yes, the other thing that I really noticed and appreciated was the music. Just great, really adding to the scenes; a beautiful effort throughout by Arnold. So, I think TND could have used a better script, meaning more meaningful dialog; and someone else as Paris (when I heard in the past year that Monica Belluci lost out, I felt, as so many others have: Oh, idiots; she would have been perfect). I liked the retro feel in general (though I get tired of blonde Germans being bad guys).
    Overall, I really enjoy TND. I love Brosnan's Bond in this one, he is fine and strong while still showing nuances. He partners so well with Yeoh. Just a very good Bond film and Brosnan's strongest of his four. This is one I can watch many times. Only four, but thank you, Pierce, for Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies.
    (Christmas in Turkey is coming up ...)

  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    @4EverBonded
    Great review. I have to admit, my favourite Brosnan Bond film, and one I enjoy watching, think Yeoh is fantastic and it would have been great if she had come back in DAD instead of the awful Jinx.
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