Moonraker : appreciation or hate?



  • edited September 2014 Posts: 11,169
    I think one thing people dislike about MR is that it is perhaps window decoration at its most blatant. The locations, colour and beautiful women all come before story and plot. But it's sometimes damn beautiful decoration all the same. To me the scene when Moore arrives on Drax's base in Rio by the river to be greeted by all those "pure" girls in white clothes against Barry's score sums up the film. Beautiful but superficial. It's not concerned with credibility or believability and knows its nothing more than pure nonsense.

    Other films in the series may be less visually appealing but they try harder to tell a semi serious spy story.

    I quite like MR and if I'm in the right mood can find it an entertaining bit of lightweight fun. But concede that it is a bit rubbish nonetheless. Large parts just don't really feel like a Bond movie and its fairly clear that the film-makers intentions were simply to outdo their previous success in Spy and make even more money.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,967
    The only way to watch Moonraker is going in knowing exactly what it is. You try watching it as a serious Bond film, you're going to hate it. If you watching it knowing it's over the top crazy camp and you like that sort of thing, then you'll have a blast. The last time I watched it, I was grinning from ear to ear for most of it. It's so charming and fun.
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 11,169
    Despite its silliness there is a sort of charm to it.

    Moore does make me roll my eyes in it a bit at times but there are other times when he makes me smile. As Bond though?? To be honest I find him fairly unconvincing in the film. He certainly gets the daftest of clothes and costumes:

    Some of them make him look like the character he plays in bloody Boat Trip.

    Mod edit: Bond images only through links, guys!
  • Posts: 11,424
    it 's in the bottom half of the table for me, but ere's plenty of competition at that end these days.

    I was struck by how beautiful a lot of it looks. Drax's chateau, Venice, the MI6 training monastery. The locations are well used. And although I don't think Jaws's return was a good idea, his appearance in that carnival outfit is very effective and sinister.
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 2,341
    MR is a very epic and extravaganza of a movie. It looks good and every penny of that budget is on the screen. I still consider it the worst of the franchise and most of it can be blamed on the
    1. Rehash of TSWLM plot
    2. Silly and OTT gadgets
    3. Over reliance on slapstick instead of menace
    It has some strong points
    1. The PTS
    2. The Centifudge scene
    3. Chang
    4. Cinematography

    Perhaps with tighter editing this could have been a very suspenseful film. If you add up the pros and cons and compare it to say DAD, most fans would prefer it to that dreck, however the film just rackles me and I will always consider it the worst of the worst.

  • MR third fav Moore Bond film. OP and FYEO first and second.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,045
    Moonraker is the "Spock's Brain" of Bond.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,967
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Moonraker is the "Spock's Brain" of Bond.

    Spock's Brain was still fun despite being silly.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,045
    Murdock wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Moonraker is the "Spock's Brain" of Bond.

    Spock's Brain was still fun despite being silly.

    "Bond and Bond! What is Bond?!"

  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,967
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Moonraker is the "Spock's Brain" of Bond.

    Spock's Brain was still fun despite being silly.

    "Bond and Bond! What is Bond?!"
    Watch it again. You might be entertained. After all you are a science fiction fan. ;)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 3,822
    Well at the risk of TheWizardOfIce ripping into me I’m going to say that I love a bit of MR!

    I think I would probably rate it as my second fave Rog film after OP.

    Its got everything you would want from a Rog Bond film. Yes there are dumb moments which are well documented but I think its not as comedic as people think. The whole first half is pretty dark – the centrifuge, death of Corinne, death of the scientists. The only stupid things before Bond goes to Brazil is the Jaws flapping and the whole gondola scene. I can stomach the gondola chase but if they round it off with a great stunt rather than the crappy hovercraft and pigeon then by the time we get to Brazil there isn’t much to complain about.
    The Brazil scenes go off the rails a bit largely due to Jaws being turned into a clown but when we move into space the laughs are kept to a minimum (I suppose they had to be really as double taking piegons in space would be a step too far).

    Its easy to say that Bond going into space is bullsh*t and to be honest it is. They could have just had a battle at the launch base with Bond blowing up fully fuelled shuttles all over the place and maybe a final battle with Drax in a shuttle as it launches with Bond ejecting out and Drax crashing into the sea or something but at the end of the day (and considering Star Wars fever) its hard to see that Cubby could avoid sending Bond into orbit without the audience feeling a bit short changed. And at least most of the space stuff has a reasonable grounding in reality and the effects are fantastic.
    timmer wrote:
    Chevron wrote:
    Major plot hole though: if the poison plane grows in the amazon rain forest and the mooraker launch complex is there, then why bother shipping the plants to Italy to get put in the glass containers and then ship them all they way back to the amazon.
    I'll take a stab. I'm not sure the plants were shipped to Italy. I think the glass containers only were shipped to Brazil. But I could be wrong. The scientists may have needed facilities in Europe as opposed to the jungle to get their work done properly, but Drax did have a rather hi-tech set-up in Brazil, so yes I see your point. I'm not sure what was going on actually. Will have to watch the movie again and suss that out.
    You are right this is somewhat illogical.

    I presume the way it works is Drax ships the orchid to Venice where it is processed and distilled into the poison. Then it is put in the glass containers and shipped back to where it came from, so this does indeed beg the question why not just do it on site?
    Seeing as money is obviously no object then why not make the distillation lab part of the launch site? And to say they need specialised facilities in Europe is a bit dubious seeing as Drax has seemingly infinite wealth and that the lab can be dismantled overnight so it cant be that complicated.

    My only explanation is that to have enough of that poison to kill everyone on the planet on the same site as enough rocket fuel for 6 shuttles is really asking for trouble.

    If you start analysing MR too much youre going to be there all day –
    Why is there a fully fuelled shuttle on the back of a 747?
    Why does Drax even steal the shuttle? Because one of his developed a fault? He owns the factory FFS surely just repairing it is less conspicuous than alerting the British and US governments?
    How does Drax build the space station without being noticed from earth? Even if his radar jamming is in operation from day one don’t the US and Soviets wonder who the f**k is launching shuttle after shuttle for years? Does Drax just say they are all commercial satellites?

    But hey its MR guys. Just sit back and enjoy.

    actonsteve wrote:
    And why is a Mayan pyramid in the Amazon jungle? The mayans didn't get south of Honduras. Unless it a timeshare holiday home...

    Love that with all the things there are to moan about with MR that someone can spot this!

    Maya, Inca, Aztec - whatever.

    You make great points. Basically, if Jaws were removed (as he was from the first half, minus the PTS) MR would be a substantially better film.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    I still like MR quite a lot. It used to drop some in my view after Dalton took over. With the years it became a classic for me that's more serious than one would expect from its sillier parts. I definitely hold MR dear.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,045
    Campbell2 wrote: »
    I still like MR quite a lot. It used to drop some in my view after Dalton took over. With the years it became a classic for me that's more serious than one would expect from its sillier parts. I definitely hold MR dear.
    I can understand that. I love the Lost In Space episode "Visit To A Hostile Planet" for much the same reason. A good story amongst the silly flourishes...
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 11,424
    Have to say I don't think it quite deserves the hate it sometimes gets round here.

    It certainly loses it's way in the second half after a solid enough start. Could say that of several entries though.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    Just that. If you are prepared to ignore the few bits of silliness there's quite a nasty little thriller in MR. I'm even willing to swallow Jaws becoming lovesick, I just wish the girl wouldn't have been so OTT-nerdy and that Drax would have ordered her disposed, that would have added to the story IMO.
  • Posts: 11,424
    There are too many bad gags which is frustrating because the good bits are fairly sound.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,045
    I didn't want to start a whole new thread for this question, so here it is:
    Spies in space- Moonraker vs. In Like Flint. Which is your favourite?
  • Posts: 11,169
    "Hang on James!"

    Wow...such fear and panic in that delivery :))

  • Posts: 14
    Moonrake rremains a timeless movie. Movies back then had that little bit of magic you need to impress the kids and the adults. Do you really think a kid is going to enjoy the Craig films?

    More likely what want happen is the kid will fake a sickness and you haver to stay home with the family again
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 11,424
    It's interesting how the kernel of the MR novel is still there in the movie. A shame I think that they weren't more loyal to the source material. Would have been particularly nice to see a card game at blades, although cheating at cards would probably not have suited Moore's Bond. Or the bit about taking loads of drugs.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,149
    There's two things I can't stand in my Bond films -

    1. Overt Humour
    2. Improbable plot

    But, my appreciation for MR has been growing year on year. It's such a wonderful film. Is it a good Bond film? Questionable. But, as a film, it's very good. I never tire of watching MR. Purely on the production side, MR is probably the greatest Bond film. The cinematography, the locations, the stunt work, the direction, special effects and the music are really top notch.

    I was a very serious kid. Even then, I had a distaste for MR's silly antics. As I've grown older, the overt humour, sight gags and excessive gadgetry still turn me off, but I found positive things to enjoy about MR. It has such an ineffable charm to it; the product of the crew at the height of the powers.

  • Posts: 10,867
    For me MR was the big budget fun movie that year. Rather like Avengers or Transformers would be today.
    It's only Bond fans who find faults with it. ;)
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 3,681
    I want to like MR. I really do. But I just can'r bring myself to it. As many have mentioned, one can't take MR's all fun. I get that. It's why I love DAF and TMWTGG. But with MR there's something amiss for me. There's a fine line, between campy/fun and campy/awful that MR crosses for me. It's too bad, too, because the first act, in Drax's estate, is quite good. Barry's music during Corinne's death is some of his best. I also think the scene where Jaws is dressed as a Carnivale character is well done.

    But jeez...

    1. The Close Encounters ring tone
    2. The Gondola car
    3. The awful fight on top of the Rio sky cars
    4. The Jaws love story
    5. The laser guns

    It all just makes me cringe. Horrible...just horrible. And it's why I rank MR as last (the worst) of the Bond films.
  • ossyjackossyjack Blackburn, UK
    Posts: 23
    Moonraker is really good up until the Amazon Rainforest. After that the launch into space and space battle ruins it.
    A shame because the Venice and Rio scenes are among the best in the whole series. The cable car scene is a classic. Ignoring the hovercraft gondola driving around St Marks Square and it is almost faultless until the absurdity of Bond heading to an invisible space station, laser battles and shooting down the poison capsules. Thankfully they realised they had gone too far with it and returned with the far more sensible and better effort in FYEO.
  • Posts: 1,170
    Give me MR and all its wackiness over the recycled stunts and supposed seriousness of FYEO any day, Fleming roots and all.

  • Posts: 19,339
    MR is firmly at #23 in my rankings and I don't think its ever going to climb from that spot.

    They went too far with it....took it beyond silly and ruined potential shows throughout.
  • Posts: 484
    Moonraker: appreciation or hate?
    For me, it's more like "Face-Palm."
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