On Her Majesty's Secret Service- Very overrated?

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  • Posts: 7,500
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think Connery had the best intro. And among the best pts. But both Lazenby and Craig had great intro. Brosnan had a good one. Dalton too but it lacked something. Moore was the worst.

    Missed what? I can't imagine what Dalton's intro 'didn't have'... :-?
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 11,189
    The only bit of Dalton's intro I'm not all that fond of is the bit with the woman on the boat:

    "It's all so boring...if only I could find a real man"
    Right on queue Dalton shows up (with an admittedly cool flip onto the boat)

    It just seems a bit...silly now. Audience pleasing nonsense. It would have been better if she'd just been sunbathing and not talking on the phone.
  • Posts: 1,146
    "this never happened to the other guy" still just makes me die inside. Breaking the 4th wall what were they thinking. With that, right at the start of the film, immediately the audience were reminded Sean is gone and Lazenby was a new Bond. The audience did'nt want a new bond they went in hoping for seemless continuation of the prior films.

    THIS I do agree with, also the other film clips in the MTS and the use of the props from other films when he clears out his office. Too self-consciously remembering the 'other fellow', though back then it was new ground, recasting arguably the action star/franchise of the decade.
  • Posts: 14,831
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think Connery had the best intro. And among the best pts. But both Lazenby and Craig had great intro. Brosnan had a good one. Dalton too but it lacked something. Moore was the worst.

    Missed what? I can't imagine what Dalton's intro 'didn't have'... :-?

    Don't know what exactly. Not a bad intro, but there was something lacking. I never found Dalton comfortable enough in the role, I guess, in spite of his acting skills. I think sometimes it does show. Or rather, I always felt he was uncomfortable with the icon that is Bond (something Brosnan was very comfortable with, even though he often had struggle with the character). Anyway, in the action scene, I find Dalton capable. When he gets on the boat, I find him less convincing as a seducer.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Don't know what exactly. Not a bad intro, but there was something lacking. I never found Dalton comfortable enough in the role, I guess, in spite of his acting skills. I think sometimes it does show. Or rather, I always felt he was uncomfortable with the icon that is Bond (something Brosnan was very comfortable with, even though he often had struggle with the character). Anyway, in the action scene, I find Dalton capable. When he gets on the boat, I find him less convincing as a seducer.

    I know what you mean.

    Keep in mind that both Brosnan and especially Dalton had to follow perhaps the most natural on-screen seducer and one-line deliverer in Roger Moore. I don't think either of them were that good with the 'quips' and I think it showed on screen.

    Moore and Connery before him were masters of this, truly. It's an underappreciated skill to not make it appear 'forced' on screen IMO.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think Connery had the best intro. And among the best pts. But both Lazenby and Craig had great intro. Brosnan had a good one. Dalton too but it lacked something. Moore was the worst.

    Missed what? I can't imagine what Dalton's intro 'didn't have'... :-?

    Don't know what exactly. Not a bad intro, but there was something lacking. I never found Dalton comfortable enough in the role, I guess, in spite of his acting skills. I think sometimes it does show. Or rather, I always felt he was uncomfortable with the icon that is Bond (something Brosnan was very comfortable with, even though he often had struggle with the character). Anyway, in the action scene, I find Dalton capable. When he gets on the boat, I find him less convincing as a seducer.

    I agree. I can't help feeling a bit...meh...when he says "better make that two". I don't think he quite sells it. When it comes to being a seducer Craig sells it better IMO.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Ridiculous comments on Dalton's intro. It's brilliantly done. From the skydive, to the first close up as he turns to see where the scream has come from, to the chase and nice cheesy one liner on the boat. It's just brilliant. Definitely echoes of Sir Rog, but I'm perhaps one of those increasingly rare types who doesn't regard that as a veiled insult.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    All of the above!. Dalton is my most undecided Bond I love TLD but struggle with LTK. Dalton is a great thearte actor but he was very dry on screen there is no humour at all in his films probably deliberate I think this a return to a more serious Bond. I don't think he looked comfortable in the role but he was last minute the job was Brosnan's until Remington Steel got picked up and contractualy he couldnt get out of it. His reign was also interupted due studio issues. Robert Brown also lacked Bernard Lee's authorotive presence as M. Totally of subject. A shame I think had Dalton got to have done 1 more with a strong script it would have awsome.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I have no problem with the rest of the TLD intro. Just the last bit.
  • Posts: 14,831
    Getafix wrote: »
    Ridiculous comments on Dalton's intro. It's brilliantly done. From the skydive, to the first close up as he turns to see where the scream has come from, to the chase and nice cheesy one liner on the boat. It's just brilliant. Definitely echoes of Sir Rog, but I'm perhaps one of those increasingly rare types who doesn't regard that as a veiled insult.

    It echoes of Roger Moore in the end, but Dalton is not at his best when they give him Moore's material. And I will also say that he was not the most convincing seducer, or the most comfortable one.
  • Posts: 7,500
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Ridiculous comments on Dalton's intro. It's brilliantly done. From the skydive, to the first close up as he turns to see where the scream has come from, to the chase and nice cheesy one liner on the boat. It's just brilliant. Definitely echoes of Sir Rog, but I'm perhaps one of those increasingly rare types who doesn't regard that as a veiled insult.

    It echoes of Roger Moore in the end, but Dalton is not at his best when they give him Moore's material. And I will also say that he was not the most convincing seducer, or the most comfortable one.

    No. He had too much class! ;)
  • Posts: 1,146
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I have no problem with the rest of the TLD intro. Just the last bit.

    Agreed. A little forced.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Well, excerpt for the bed head-butt in the Jeep.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    There was a bed in that jeep?!
    Wow, talk about 007 being prepared for everything. ;) ("How thoughtful of Q ...")
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    There was a bed in that jeep?!
    Wow, talk about 007 being prepared for everything. ;) ("How thoughtful of Q ...")

    :)) =))
  • Posts: 1,146
    :)
  • Dalton fluffed his lines at key moments, the 'better make that two' he stumbles over. His opening shot is terrific, however.

    I think they missed a trick with Dalton's tenure. From the self-assured narcissism of Connery, to the mock narcissism of Moore, that late 80s had male heroes on a curve where they could still be heroic but had to be tortured in some way, ie like Mel Gibson as Riggs, or reluctant hero McClane in Die Hard. Dalton could have been part of that, but they didn't play up his flaws at all, only his realism and dourness. Even his womanising isn't presented as much of a flaw. They could have played up his drinking or something, so you wonder if he might go off the rails a bit.

    Now we have Craig and he can be a hero but it's obvious we're not really meant to want to be him, and most action film are ensemble pieces like X-Men, Avengers, Lord of the Rings, etc.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    Dalton fluffed his lines at key moments, the 'better make that two' he stumbles over. His opening shot is terrific, however.

    I think they missed a trick with Dalton's tenure. From the self-assured narcissism of Connery, to the mock narcissism of Moore, that late 80s had male heroes on a curve where they could still be heroic but had to be tortured in some way, ie like Mel Gibson as Riggs, or reluctant hero McClane in Die Hard. Dalton could have been part of that, but they didn't play up his flaws at all, only his realism and dourness. Even his womanising isn't presented as much of a flaw. They could have played up his drinking or something, so you wonder if he might go off the rails a bit.

    Now we have Craig and he can be a hero but it's obvious we're not really meant to want to be him, and most action film are ensemble pieces like X-Men, Avengers, Lord of the Rings, etc.

    Perfectly said. They didn't really take advantage of where Dalton wanted to go with it. They were stuck in the middle.

    No doubt a major part of their problem is they were still making the movies every 2 years apart at that time (not enough of a time gap for the public to accept such a change in character), and they were stuck with their own legacy which is immense. Lethal Weapon, Die Hard and others did not have that legacy to contend with.

    It really took 19 years (from TLD to CR) of peppering 'Bond vulnerabilities' throughout the movies before the public really embraced a deep look at Bond's flawed character, and it also needed an escapist mess (DAD) thrown in immediately before as well.

    I'll contend that the public may still not have accepted it without the reboot, which really allowed them to say what they wanted to say, and in a way that the public would accept.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    This thread is overrated. End of story.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    LOL thee end.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 1,639
    OHMSS was a big hit in in the yr '69 compared to other films , it just didn't do as well as YOLT did.

    I think the scripts would've been the same in the 70s with GL.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I have seen ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE well over 15 times since that first time on television in the '70s, including last week at The Castro Theatre, and it continues to get better. Long has it been one of my Top Four Bond films. I'll even defend Lazenby. No question is he the weakest actor of the 6 men who have played the role, I don't think anyone with any sense of objectivity can say that, yet he still makes some interesting choices (just as likely they were fortuitous accidents) and make she care and feel for his Bond in a different way. And I love the fight scenes, even that goofy kick (@chrisisall ). It's also probably my second favorite of the novels, after MOONRAKER (actually, I may prefer FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, as well).

    This is simply one of the best Bond films ever made, and his physicality for me puts him easily right behind Connery and neck-and neck with Craig, who is a tough, gritty Bond. That fight scene in the hotel room is just brutal, right there among the best of them.

    Would have loved, loved, loved to have seen George in LALD and especially in MWTGG. They would have had to recast Christopher Lee, since he simply would have been no match physically for Lazenby.
  • Posts: 7,500
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I have seen ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE well over 15 times since that first time on television in the '70s, including last week at The Castro Theatre, and it continues to get better. Long has it been one of my Top Four Bond films. I'll even defend Lazenby. No question is he the weakest actor of the 6 men who have played the role, I don't think anyone with any sense of objectivity can say that, yet he still makes some interesting choices (just as likely they were fortuitous accidents) and make she care and feel for his Bond in a different way. And I love the fight scenes, even that goofy kick (@chrisisall ). It's also probably my second favorite of the novels, after MOONRAKER (actually, I may prefer FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, as well).

    This is simply one of the best Bond films ever made, and his physicality for me puts him easily right behind Connery and neck-and neck with Craig, who is a tough, gritty Bond. That fight scene in the hotel room is just brutal, right there among the best of them.

    Would have loved, loved, loved to have seen George in LALD and especially in MWTGG. They would have had to recast Christopher Lee, since he simply would have been no match physically for Lazenby.

    Well, its always about physicality for you, isn't it? ;))
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Recast Christopher Lee?! Never heard that one before!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Recast him with Jack Palance, or not at all.
  • Posts: 1,146
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I have seen ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE well over 15 times since that first time on television in the '70s, including last week at The Castro Theatre, and it continues to get better. Long has it been one of my Top Four Bond films. I'll even defend Lazenby. No question is he the weakest actor of the 6 men who have played the role, I don't think anyone with any sense of objectivity can say that, yet he still makes some interesting choices (just as likely they were fortuitous accidents) and make she care and feel for his Bond in a different way. And I love the fight scenes, even that goofy kick (@chrisisall ). It's also probably my second favorite of the novels, after MOONRAKER (actually, I may prefer FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, as well).

    This is simply one of the best Bond films ever made, and his physicality for me puts him easily right behind Connery and neck-and neck with Craig, who is a tough, gritty Bond. That fight scene in the hotel room is just brutal, right there among the best of them.

    Would have loved, loved, loved to have seen George in LALD and especially in MWTGG. They would have had to recast Christopher Lee, since he simply would have been no match physically for Lazenby.

    Well, its always about physicality for you, isn't it? ;))

    Well, yeah. Can't a have a non-tough guy in a tough guy role.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Recast him with Jack Palance, or not at all.

    Contrasted with Lazenby, that might have worked.
    Surely no one could expect Lee to match up with Lazenby physically.
  • Posts: 14,831
    Recast him with Jack Palance, or not at all.

    Contrasted with Lazenby, that might have worked.
    Surely no one could expect Lee to match up with Lazenby physically.

    I'd expect Lee to match up with anyone physically.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I much prefer the Scaramanga we see on film than the one I read in the novel, which I thought was one of Fleming's weakest, if not the weakest.

    However, neither novel nor film are anything to shout about.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Agree on both, that's why based on the strength of OHMSS it might have been interesting seeing Lazenby match up with Scaramanga. I will say though that it might have been cool to see George have to outwit a less physical opponent. Same with LALD, would have been fun to see Laz in that film as well.

    Most certainly a Lazenby Bond fighting jaws would have been a lot more fun from a fighting standpoint.
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