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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I think the romance between Dalton and Kara did sometimes feel a bit too soppy.

    "Don't think...just let it happen"
    "It means beautiful...in Afgahn (Kara smacking Bond in anger with the pillow)"
    "I've been such a fool", "we both have".

    (I know @barryt007 loves those lines).

    To be honest I don't think it really matches Bond and Tracy.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think the romance between Dalton and Kara did sometimes feel a bit too soppy.
    "Take me on the wheel. "

    Cough.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,108
    Birdleson wrote: »
    There's something to be said about that. The females I know that watch Bond tend to reject Dalton and Lazenby more than the males do. They don't seem to have that type of appeal that the other four exude effortlessly.

    OK, here's a female data point for you: One of the reasons Dalton is my favourite Bond is that he's the one I can believe in as both 'ruthless killer' and 'guy everyone wants to go to bed with'. The rest are either one or the other.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    There's something to be said about that. The females I know that watch Bond tend to reject Dalton and Lazenby more than the males do. They don't seem to have that type of appeal that the other four exude effortlessly.

    OK, here's a female data point for you: One of the reasons Dalton is my favourite Bond is that he's the one I can believe in as both 'ruthless killer' and 'guy everyone wants to go to bed with'. The rest are either one or the other.

    Laz once described Bond as "the sort of person you wouldn't trust with your girlfriend". I get that vibe more from both Lazenby and his Bond, but less so from Dalton" (he seems more like the "nice best friend" - Della's "we love you" as they give Bond the lighter - during the wedding scenes of LTK).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    There's something to be said about that. The females I know that watch Bond tend to reject Dalton and Lazenby more than the males do. They don't seem to have that type of appeal that the other four exude effortlessly.

    OK, here's a female data point for you: One of the reasons Dalton is my favourite Bond is that he's the one I can believe in as both 'ruthless killer' and 'guy everyone wants to go to bed with'. The rest are either one or the other.

    Laz once described Bond as "the sort of person you wouldn't trust with your girlfriend". I get that vibe more from both Lazenby and his Bond, but less so from Dalton" (he seems like the "nice best friend" during the wedding scenes of LTK).
    That's how I feel as well. I preferred Laz's approach, but am even more in tune with the Connery/Moore methods.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,839
    I remember many women I knew back when Dalton was Bond saying he was "ugly". Well, not ugly per se but just not attractive enough.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    bondjames wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Is the film any good?
    I enjoyed Passengers, but the advertising may be a bit misleading. It's a very interesting premise, and is entertaining enough, but some viewers may have wanted something more thought provoking. There is a fundamental moral dilemma at the film's core, and it could have been expanded upon more than it was. Nevertheless, visually stunning and worth a watch.
    That is a solid way if describing it.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dalton did seem a bit forced with the ladies. I don't think he even looked at Linda on the boat in the TLD pretitles. He always seemed more interested in the mission than the women. Laz had Tracy to distract him and was also in disguise as Sir Hillary at Piz Gloria, so perhaps that explains his behaviour.

    Also in LTK he doesnt seem the slightest bit interested in Pam when they '' run out of gas '' on the boat.I know hes still angry about Felix and has revenge against Sanchez on his mind, but it seems more like Pam seduces him here.The same happens later when he beds Lupe, she is the one who really initiates it and you get the impression he would rather just get out of there.

    Understand im not hating on Dalton, i really like his Bond but i wonder was this sort of indifference towards the ladies deliberate or did Dalton just lack the necessary charm in this department.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    It could also be John Glen's direction that caused this too. I know they didn't have the best relationships. LTK especially.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Understand im not hating on Dalton, i really like his Bond but i wonder was this sort of indifference towards the ladies deliberate or did Dalton just lack the necessary charm in this department.
    It was a time when the Aids epidemic was in full effect, so perhaps they didn't want Bond to appear to much of a Casanova. Part of it could have been Dalton too though.

    The problem is the tone was all wrong imho. It's as if Dalton was trying to go one way but the scripts were taking him in another direction (the ghost of Moore still hanging over the proceedings EDIT: and perhaps even the ghost of Brosnan, since he was the first chosen successor, and perhaps his films were intended to be lighter like they eventually were). EON didn't really commit to a direction with Dalton the way they did with Craig. They tried to have it both ways.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Brosnan wasn t the first chosen successor. That is fake news.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    Wasn't it mentioned on the SE Documentary for TLD that Pierce had the role but because Remington Steel was given a new season he couldn't do it so because Tim was done with Brenda Starr he could do TLD?
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Brosnan wasn t the first chosen successor. That is fake news.

    How can you say that? He was always the favourite to take over from Moore and he did get the role.I distinctly remember the news headlines and interviews with the man himself when he had to drop out due to Remington Steele being renewed.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    But Dalton was asked first.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited December 2016 Posts: 14,839
    bondjames wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Understand im not hating on Dalton, i really like his Bond but i wonder was this sort of indifference towards the ladies deliberate or did Dalton just lack the necessary charm in this department.
    It was a time when the Aids epidemic was in full effect, so perhaps they didn't want Bond to appear to much of a Casanova. Part of it could have been Dalton too though.

    The problem is the tone was all wrong imho. It's as if Dalton was trying to go one way but the scripts were taking him in another direction (the ghost of Moore still hanging over the proceedings EDIT: and perhaps even the ghost of Brosnan, since he was the first chosen successor, and perhaps his films were intended to be lighter like they eventually were). EON didn't really commit to a direction with Dalton the way they did with Craig. They tried to have it both ways.

    My controversial opinion: Brosnan destroyed Dalton's tenure before it even started. Other controversial opinion: no other Bond had it as easy as Brosnan when cast.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Back in the '60s, and maybe again in '81. But in '86 Brosnan was EON's clear choice.

    After Dalton had to decline due to Brenda Starr. Only then did they hire Brosnan, and once he had to let go of it, Dalton was again available.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,839
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Understand im not hating on Dalton, i really like his Bond but i wonder was this sort of indifference towards the ladies deliberate or did Dalton just lack the necessary charm in this department.
    It was a time when the Aids epidemic was in full effect, so perhaps they didn't want Bond to appear to much of a Casanova. Part of it could have been Dalton too though.

    The problem is the tone was all wrong imho. It's as if Dalton was trying to go one way but the scripts were taking him in another direction (the ghost of Moore still hanging over the proceedings EDIT: and perhaps even the ghost of Brosnan, since he was the first chosen successor, and perhaps his films were intended to be lighter like they eventually were). EON didn't really commit to a direction with Dalton the way they did with Craig. They tried to have it both ways.

    My controversial opinion: Brosnan destroyed Dalton's tenure before it even started. Other controversial opinion: no other Bond had it as easy as Brosnan when cast.

    I'll certainly agree on that last part, but not the bit about Brosnan destroying Dalton's tenure. That was all on him. The public likes a Bond that is engaging and playfully wry (which, note, the four accepted actors were). He was seen as drab and dull. Whether you agree with that assessment or not, that was how he was perceived. If he had owned the role and put showed the strength, confidence and wit of his predecessors, or if he just had some damned presence on screen (note that Dalton has never been the lead in a successful show or film outside of the Bond franchise) the audience would have responded and word of mouth would have spread, just as not did for Daniel, regardless of prior expectations.

    I agree that Dalton was not as Well perceived as the others.In fact there was a time I was very much hostile to Dalton. But I do think Brosnan being the heir apparent shot Dalton in the foot.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think the romance between Dalton and Kara did sometimes feel a bit too soppy.

    "Don't think...just let it happen"
    "It means beautiful...in Afgahn (Kara smacking Bond in anger with the pillow)"
    "I've been such a fool", "we both have".

    (I know @barryt007 loves those lines).

    So do I.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Dalton was bland and the role of Bond was too big for him,he is a theatre actor not a lead in a massive franchise such as this or any other film x he is fine in Penny Dreadful because he shares the main role with other actors .
    He was a mistake tbh as Bond imo .

    And as for that waste of space Kara don't get me started !!!!! Meh !!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    @barryt007.

    I've felt for quite a while Dalton works better either in the theatre or television. There's something about how he looks on camera that suggests tv drama. Some actors are like that. If you look through imdb quite a fair bit of Dalton's other projects are television-based.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I totally agree @BAIN123 x it was bad casting and they needed to get it right after Sir Roger left.
    They didn't.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I don't know about "bad casting". Dalton did have a fairly impressive back catalogue at that point but I do think that there's a reason people claim he has a lack of charisma.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Dalton seemed more comfortable as Alexei Volkoff than he ever did as Bond;
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited December 2016 Posts: 6,791
    What is up with all the Dalton bashing suddenly? I thought he was appreciated around here.

    For me Tim is the one and only incarnation of Fleming's 007.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Dalton is excellent in TLD. I don't care what anyone says!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,110
    I don't feel like Bond should be played by anyone older than 49, as a rule. Bond should be someone wise beyond his years, hardened through experience in the field. That effect is lost once the actor playing him begins to look past it himself. Then it's just an older guy with a cynical outlook and expensive tastes - there's nothing particularly interesting or unique about that.

    Never is it mentioned in the Fleming books that Bond should be in his late forties or older. I think people get the impression that he should be older based on his sense of sophistication, but I always saw him as a bit of a throwback rather than an older guy hanging onto his youth. It may sound like a very subtle distinction, but to me its an aspect of the character they have failed to portray accurately since the 60's.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I totally agree @BAIN123 x it was bad casting and they needed to get it right after Sir Roger left.
    They didn't.

    Completely disagree.Dalton was awesome.Its just that audiences at the time were not ready for his gritty take on the character and LTK was the last impression he had on audiences.If it wasnt for the legal case that kept the franchise in limbo after '89, his third Bond was going to be a more lighthearted affair.

  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Birdleson wrote: »
    In fact, though it's become an oft repeated thing about the darkness being an issue, I don't remember one person bringing that up at the time.

    And ,considering he was the darkest Bond...he didnt throw one punch in 2 films.More of a wet fart Bond to me ....If you want a dark Bond,please see DC in QOS for the perfect dark Bond.

  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I totally agree @BAIN123 x it was bad casting and they needed to get it right after Sir Roger left.
    They didn't.

    Completely disagree.Dalton was awesome.Its just that audiences at the time were not ready for his gritty take on the character and LTK was the last impression he had on audiences.If it wasnt for the legal case that kept the franchise in limbo after '89, his third Bond was going to be a more lighthearted affair.

    Dalton was awesome ?? really ? compared to Connery or Craig ?....i dont think so..he had no screen presence compared to those other 2 Bonds (in fact to any of the other Bonds) and had no self-belief that he could play the role...
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,110
    DC in QoS wasn't dark. More pouty Bond, or sad Bond
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