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"Dont blow it all at once ": Die Another Day Appreciation Thread

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I don't think it's wise to make such generalizations.

    DN, FRWL, CR, and TB are firmly in my top 5.

    GF & TLD are not.

    LTK & OHMSS are in my top 10.

    So in my case, I like serious Bond as much as the next chap. I just don't like GF and TLD all that much. I don't mind Dalton either.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited August 2016 Posts: 9,117
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Without having read any of the above comments I just want to say that DAD isn't less good than AVTAK, DAF, TMWTGG, TWINE, LALD, YOLT or some others.

    It's getting surreal now. First people saying DAD is better than TLD now someone claiming DAD is better than at least 8 other Bond films - the 6 named above, plus 'others' must be a minimum of 2 (although who knows how many 'others' constitutes? It could be 17.)

    On the plus side @BondJasonBond006 is from Switzerland so no flights to stump up for for his Wizard and RC7 sponsored trip to Dignitas.

  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 6,820
    Surreal, maybe! Depressing, certainly! We all have our favourites, but there some mad opinions here! DAD better than TLD?? Are you taking the proverbial! I think even Daltons worse critic wouldn't say that!
  • Comte_de_BleuchampComte_de_Bleuchamp
    Posts: 382
    bondjames wrote: »
    I don't think it's wise to make such generalizations.

    DN, FRWL, CR, and TB are firmly in my top 5.

    GF & TLD are not.

    LTK & OHMSS are in my top 10.

    So in my case, I like serious Bond as much as the next chap. I just don't like GF and TLD all that much. I don't mind Dalton either.

    I didn't say the yardstick was perfect. But to me TLD has so many Bondian moments (whatever that means right ), a brilliant score & a a Bond that insisted they go back to Fleming. Compared with the previous film with creepy 60 year old Moore in last of the summer wine fight scenes, green screen fire truck chase, and lot of comedy oooohs, there's not much comparison. The best Moore's are LALD & Octopussy. If only Moore had gone earlier, we could have had Dalton face off against Walken.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 6,820
    Oh, I would have loved to have seen that! Much as I love Roger, he should have bowed out after OP, his finest hour if you ask me!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Comte_de_Bleuchamp wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I don't think it's wise to make such generalizations.

    DN, FRWL, CR, and TB are firmly in my top 5.

    GF & TLD are not.

    LTK & OHMSS are in my top 10.

    So in my case, I like serious Bond as much as the next chap. I just don't like GF and TLD all that much. I don't mind Dalton either.

    I didn't say the yardstick was perfect. But to me TLD has so many Bondian moments (whatever that means right ), a brilliant score & a a Bond that insisted they go back to Fleming. Compared with the previous film with creepy 60 year old Moore in last of the summer wine fight scenes, green screen fire truck chase, and lot of comedy oooohs, there's not much comparison. The best Moore's are LALD & Octopussy. If only Moore had gone earlier, we could have had Dalton face off against Walken.
    You and I may disagree on which are the best Moore outings but I can't deny that he probably should have packed it in after facing Connery's NSNA with OP. I wouldn't have missed him in AVTAK, and Dalton might very well have been a better foil for Walken.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    AVTAK has a good main villain in Zorin, but the film is so devoid of energy. The series was in desperate need to fresh blood in the lead, by this point. DAD has a tundra load of problems, but with the exception of the title track and Madge's cameo, it holds together up to Cuba (when Jinx shows up), better than AVTAK does on the whole. Between those two, I would rather watch DAD.

    Up steps the Daltonator

    Everytime an ill-informed miscreant bashes Dalton and/or TLD/LTK... well, i'm sat alone, deep in thought, pondering Bond 17 when my signal is shined up into the sky...

    tumblr_nllr3dtWo61qimi3zo4_500.gif

    ;)

    Sometime ago I remember @GeorgeLazenby (a trusted member on here who loved OHMSS so was hardly ill-informed or lacking in taste) described Dalts as essentially being weak and - quote - "too geeky".

    That's always been a phrase I've remembered because I think it has some truth. He certainly has a somewhat geeky fanbase.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    @GeorgeLazenby. once described Dalton's Bond as a geography teacher. A sentiment I disagreed with, naturally.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    royale65 wrote: »
    @GeorgeLazenby. once described Dalton's Bond as a geography teacher. A sentiment I disagreed with, naturally.

    I think he does have a bit of a "teacher" look to him at times.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree. I noticed that yesterday when I watched TLD. In fact, that's probably why he works so well as intrepid explorer Sir Malcolm in Penny Dreadful.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    AVTAK has a good main villain in Zorin, but the film is so devoid of energy. The series was in desperate need to fresh blood in the lead, by this point. DAD has a tundra load of problems, but with the exception of the title track and Madge's cameo, it holds together up to Cuba (when Jinx shows up), better than AVTAK does on the whole. Between those two, I would rather watch DAD.

    Up steps the Daltonator

    Everytime an ill-informed miscreant bashes Dalton and/or TLD/LTK... well, i'm sat alone, deep in thought, pondering Bond 17 when my signal is shined up into the sky...

    tumblr_nllr3dtWo61qimi3zo4_500.gif

    ;)

    Sometime ago I remember @GeorgeLazenby (a trusted member on here who loved OHMSS so was hardly ill-informed or lacking in taste) described Dalts as essentially being weak and - quote - "too geeky".

    That's always been a phrase I've remembered because I think it has some truth. He certainly has a somewhat geeky fanbase.

    Must I really draw attention to the smiley at the bottom of my post? I had hoped that was obvious. And I remember what George Lazenby (the forum member) thought of Dalton, I disagreed with him, but it was his opinion.

    As for the geeky fanbases, that is a laugh, they are all geeky. So that is not a criticism that can be leveled only at Timothy Dalton. The Dalton:Bond fanbase is smaller than the other actors, but there are Dalton fans out there.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    @GeorgeLazenby. once described Dalton's Bond as a geography teacher. A sentiment I disagreed with, naturally.

    I think he does have a bit of a "teacher" look to him at times.

    Dalton strikers me as scholarly, not teacherly. ;)

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    AVTAK has a good main villain in Zorin, but the film is so devoid of energy. The series was in desperate need to fresh blood in the lead, by this point. DAD has a tundra load of problems, but with the exception of the title track and Madge's cameo, it holds together up to Cuba (when Jinx shows up), better than AVTAK does on the whole. Between those two, I would rather watch DAD.

    Up steps the Daltonator

    Everytime an ill-informed miscreant bashes Dalton and/or TLD/LTK... well, i'm sat alone, deep in thought, pondering Bond 17 when my signal is shined up into the sky...

    tumblr_nllr3dtWo61qimi3zo4_500.gif

    ;)

    Sometime ago I remember @GeorgeLazenby (a trusted member on here who loved OHMSS so was hardly ill-informed or lacking in taste) described Dalts as essentially being weak and - quote - "too geeky".

    That's always been a phrase I've remembered because I think it has some truth. He certainly has a somewhat geeky fanbase.

    Must I really draw attention to the smiley at the bottom of my post? I had hoped that was obvious. And I remember what George Lazenby (the forum member) thought of Dalton, I disagreed with him, but it was his opinion.

    As for the geeky fanbases, that is a laugh, they are all geeky. So that is not a criticism that can be leveled only at Timothy Dalton. The Dalton:Bond fanbase is smaller than the other actors, but there are Dalton fans out there.

    Maybe I should have said "especially geeky" ;)

    I do like Dalton but I do sort of agree with Lazenby's comments.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I think the 'geekiness' was because I don't think he was all that comfortable on screen with some of the situations that they put him in and some of the dialogue that he had to spout. I don't blame him actually. The 'horse's backside' part in TLD for instance, or the 'leave it to the professionals' part in LTK.

    His portrayal would have been much better without some of the remnants of the 80's cheese, which only Moore could pull off with aplomb imho. Craig didn't have to endure this because the producers were 'all-in' by the time CR came along.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    David Arnold's score is probably my favorite thing about the film. The music really help elevates the film.

    Pierce does the best he can with what he's given. I feel bad that this was the Bond film he ended on.

    The Hovercraft chase and Car battle are both good tense scenes.

    I do like the Ice Palace location, It's a nice throwback to Ken Adam's retro futuristic designs of the 60's.

    The entire first act is pretty good.

    The scenes in Cuba are the best ones for me, makes me think of FRWL in some ways.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited August 2016 Posts: 13,894
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Maybe I should have said "especially geeky" ;)

    I do like Dalton but I do sort of agree with Lazenby's comments.

    So that would make the Connery fan base 'especially sex pest-y'? ;)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited August 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I think its worth noting that a few of Dalton's other well-known roles have been in things that have had a more...specific sort of fanbase:

    Gothic horror - Penny Dreadful
    classic literature - Jane Eyre
    comic strips - The Rocketeer, Flash Gordon
    ...wasn't he in Dr Who aswell?

    Maybe "cult" is also a good word.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    Murdock wrote: »
    David Arnold's score is probably my favorite thing about the film. The music really help elevates the film.

    Pierce does the best he can with what he's given. I feel bad that this was the Bond film he ended on.

    The Hovercraft chase and Car battle are both good tense scenes.

    I do like the Ice Palace location, It's a nice throwback to Ken Adam's retro futuristic designs of the 60's.

    The entire first act is pretty good.

    The scenes in Cuba are the best ones for me, makes me think of FRWL in some ways.

    Darn tooting!

    More things to love about DAD -

    Kenneth Tsang
    The musical cue when Bond is driving up to the Ice Palace.
    The Pikelett
    Brosnan and his masseur
    Bond catching the gun when it drops from the MIR machine

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    Cult is actually a good word to describe the Dalton's Bond fanbase. As an actor, I think of him as.... a shakespearean film and tv actor, I suppose. As clumsy as that sounds, I guess that's how I would think of him.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Cult is actually a good word to describe the Dalton's Bond fanbase. As an actor, I think of him as.... a shakespearean film and tv actor, I suppose. As clumsy as that sounds, I guess that's how I would think of him.

    I think that's selling him short somewhat. My wife thinks he's great and she has absolutely no interest in geek culture, or cult cinema - quite the opposite in fact.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    RC7 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Cult is actually a good word to describe the Dalton's Bond fanbase. As an actor, I think of him as.... a shakespearean film and tv actor, I suppose. As clumsy as that sounds, I guess that's how I would think of him.

    I think that's selling him short somewhat. My wife thinks he's great and she has absolutely no interest in geek culture, or cult cinema - quite the opposite in fact.

    Only his Bond fandom I would call cult.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Dalton has appeared in quite a few "culty" things though.

    Flash Gordon, Dr. Who, Penny Dreadful, Rocketeer etc
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Dalton and DAD

    Two underrated gems in the Bond franchise.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited August 2016 Posts: 13,894
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Dalton has appeared in quite a few "culty" things though.

    Flash Gordon, Dr. Who, Penny Dreadful, Rocketeer etc

    I'm not denying that. I Just have a hard time think of Dalton as a cult actor. When I think of cult actors, I think of someone like David Warbeck.

    Is Doctor Who really cult anymore? Since it's resurrection in 2005, it has enjoyed a level of popularity it maybe hadn't had since... well, ever.
  • RC7RC7
    edited August 2016 Posts: 10,512
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Cult is actually a good word to describe the Dalton's Bond fanbase. As an actor, I think of him as.... a shakespearean film and tv actor, I suppose. As clumsy as that sounds, I guess that's how I would think of him.

    I think that's selling him short somewhat. My wife thinks he's great and she has absolutely no interest in geek culture, or cult cinema - quite the opposite in fact.

    Only his Bond fandom I would call cult.

    Fair enough, although I guess you could level that at every Bond to some extent. The fact he only did two automatically qualifies him as 'cult', I'd argue. Which isn't his fault.
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Dalton and DAD

    Two underrated gems in the Bond franchise.

    I can cut DAD some slack, but gem? Bed time, Jason.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited August 2016 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    AVTAK has a good main villain in Zorin, but the film is so devoid of energy. The series was in desperate need to fresh blood in the lead, by this point. DAD has a tundra load of problems, but with the exception of the title track and Madge's cameo, it holds together up to Cuba (when Jinx shows up), better than AVTAK does on the whole. Between those two, I would rather watch DAD.

    Up steps the Daltonator

    Everytime an ill-informed miscreant bashes Dalton and/or TLD/LTK... well, i'm sat alone, deep in thought, pondering Bond 17 when my signal is shined up into the sky...

    tumblr_nllr3dtWo61qimi3zo4_500.gif

    ;)

    Sometime ago I remember @GeorgeLazenby (a trusted member on here who loved OHMSS so was hardly ill-informed or lacking in taste) described Dalts as essentially being weak and - quote - "too geeky".

    That's always been a phrase I've remembered because I think it has some truth. He certainly has a somewhat geeky fanbase.

    Didn't you get the memo? Geek is the new cool.

    Allegedly.


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    AVTAK has a good main villain in Zorin, but the film is so devoid of energy. The series was in desperate need to fresh blood in the lead, by this point. DAD has a tundra load of problems, but with the exception of the title track and Madge's cameo, it holds together up to Cuba (when Jinx shows up), better than AVTAK does on the whole. Between those two, I would rather watch DAD.

    Up steps the Daltonator

    Everytime an ill-informed miscreant bashes Dalton and/or TLD/LTK... well, i'm sat alone, deep in thought, pondering Bond 17 when my signal is shined up into the sky...

    tumblr_nllr3dtWo61qimi3zo4_500.gif

    ;)

    Sometime ago I remember @GeorgeLazenby (a trusted member on here who loved OHMSS so was hardly ill-informed or lacking in taste) described Dalts as essentially being weak and - quote - "too geeky".

    That's always been a phrase I've remembered because I think it has some truth. He certainly has a somewhat geeky fanbase.

    Didn't you get the memo? Geek is the new cool.

    Allegedly.
    I think that's more geeks like Whishaw's Q, on account of nerds like Zuckerberg running the world. The antisocial boffin is in.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited August 2016 Posts: 2,721
    DAD is more entertaining than TLD? This thread has finally reached its DAD. Desperately in need of a CR reboot with the next post.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Major_Boothroyd wrote: »
    DAD is more entertaining than TLD? This thread has finally reached its DAD. Desperately in need of a CR reboot with the next post.

    Oh very good.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,088
    Was the invisible car riding the coat-tails of Harry Potter and his cloak of invisibility? It seems strange that both films are just one year apart. I seem to remember there was a fad in the early 2000's of making things go invisible as some sort of show case of visual effects.
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