Jason Bourne (2002 - present)

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  • edited May 2014 Posts: 7,645
    I would like it if the ycontinued with Cross and if in the future Matt Damon would return with Greengrass that would be fine.

    Any decent spy thriller in the cinema is one more trip to the cienma for me. As I said I quite liked the last one.

    And the 007 franchise can use a wee bit of stiff competition is should keep them sharp and on their toes.
  • My point is to compare how Cross uses pills to get highly skilled in energy and smarts while it's comparable to how too many college students take pills to help them study (it has worse side effects) and often times coffee to stay awake...at least there's more realism than Bourne in that sense but I still wosh Bounre was actually back. They shouldn't use his name in the titles.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 34,999
    Andrew Baldwin will script 'Bourne 5' with Justin Lin directing:

    http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=118080
  • Posts: 8,713
    this is interesting news :D
  • Posts: 12,241
    Well that rules Damon out then!
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 3,768
    Nice finaly some new news. It comes on a moment that you almoost going to think there going to delay the movie.
  • Posts: 8,713
    so on IMDb or as I call it the land of lies this synopsis popped up for Bourne 5

    The Bourne saga continues with THE BOURNE BETRAYAL.

    Jeremy Renner returns as Aaron Cross the last surviving member of Operation Outcome - a group of black ops agents with chemically enhanced physical and mental capabilities that were betrayed and terminated by a dark and powerful black ops team deep within the CIA.

    But Aaron Cross survived and is still at large and their sinister activities are threatened and Operation Larx - their next generation of super assassins is in jeopardy. Larx agents are dispatched to hunt Cross down and remove his threat.

    The chase moves to China and the streets of Shanghai as Cross stays one step ahead of the closing Larx agents in a desperate bid to find a second Outcome agent that could be his salvation and that could help him take the fight to the agency.

    Jeremy Renner is joined by Edward Norton, Rachel Weiz, David Strathairn and Stacy Keech star in THE BOURNE BETRAYAL the next exciting instalment of the Bourne series.

    thoughts?
  • Posts: 7,645
    Risico007 wrote:
    so on IMDb or as I call it the land of lies this synopsis popped up for Bourne 5

    The Bourne saga continues with THE BOURNE BETRAYAL.

    Jeremy Renner returns as Aaron Cross the last surviving member of Operation Outcome - a group of black ops agents with chemically enhanced physical and mental capabilities that were betrayed and terminated by a dark and powerful black ops team deep within the CIA.

    But Aaron Cross survived and is still at large and their sinister activities are threatened and Operation Larx - their next generation of super assassins is in jeopardy. Larx agents are dispatched to hunt Cross down and remove his threat.

    The chase moves to China and the streets of Shanghai as Cross stays one step ahead of the closing Larx agents in a desperate bid to find a second Outcome agent that could be his salvation and that could help him take the fight to the agency.

    Jeremy Renner is joined by Edward Norton, Rachel Weiz, David Strathairn and Stacy Keech star in THE BOURNE BETRAYAL the next exciting instalment of the Bourne series.

    thoughts?

    Sounds very promising.
  • Posts: 8,713
    it sounds like a cool idea but we shall see how true it is
  • Posts: 13,263
    Risico007 wrote:
    so on IMDb or as I call it the land of lies this synopsis popped up for Bourne 5

    The Bourne saga continues with THE BOURNE BETRAYAL.

    Jeremy Renner returns as Aaron Cross the last surviving member of Operation Outcome - a group of black ops agents with chemically enhanced physical and mental capabilities that were betrayed and terminated by a dark and powerful black ops team deep within the CIA.

    But Aaron Cross survived and is still at large and their sinister activities are threatened and Operation Larx - their next generation of super assassins is in jeopardy. Larx agents are dispatched to hunt Cross down and remove his threat.

    The chase moves to China and the streets of Shanghai as Cross stays one step ahead of the closing Larx agents in a desperate bid to find a second Outcome agent that could be his salvation and that could help him take the fight to the agency.

    Jeremy Renner is joined by Edward Norton, Rachel Weiz, David Strathairn and Stacy Keech star in THE BOURNE BETRAYAL the next exciting instalment of the Bourne series.

    thoughts?

    Is it a Blade Runner or a Terminator sequel? All that thing about chemically enhanced agents sounds far too scifi for my taste. The first three Bourne movies labeled themselves realistic, whether they were or not is debatable, but at least they were pseudo-realistic films, set in a believable, contemporary world.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    The synopsis sounds interesting, I'll give it that, but as usual I'm just not interested.
    Yeah, I don't think it'll happen. Matt has always said he's open to it, but he wants to go into the project assured that the story and film will be good, as well as with a guarantee that Greengrass will be in the director's chair. I respect that both Matt and Paul aren't going back to the franchise just to cash in, and respect the fans and state of the film series that they want to do justice to.

    As for the next Cross-centric Bourne film, I really don't care at this point. I wouldn't mind if another never came along. Cross just isn't that interesting to me, and completely forgettable when compared to Bourne. With Bourne you could not only relate to his crazy identity crisis, but he was also the genuine article and had natural skills of survival. With Cross, he has to take stupid pills to get the kinds of survival instincts Bourne has naturally, and that just makes him that much more of a weaker character. Without those pills, he'd be dead in seconds whereas Bourne has spent three whole films surviving by nothing but his wits. Anyway, I digress...

    I still stand by this. Now, an interesting thing to experiment with would be if Cross ran out of his pills or he couldn't find any more and he was forced to survive by nothing but his wits as Bourne has always done. Make him have a rough time and get his arse kicked at first, but slowly have him learning how to live and survive in dangerous situations without those things. Otherwise he'll continue to be a yawn inducing character that I have no stakes or interest in.
  • Posts: 8,713
    uhm did you guys watch the film he is now completely off the pills due to the injection Hot doctor Rachel Weisz gave him... Sure I can't remember the character but no the pills are gone from the story.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 34,999
    Risico007 wrote:
    uhm did you guys watch the film he is now completely off the pills due to the injection Hot doctor Rachel Weisz gave him... Sure I can't remember the character but no the pills are gone from the story.

    I don't remember that, because after noticing how terrible and lackluster the film was, I started to tune it all out with no plans of ever rewatching it.
  • Posts: 13,263
    Risico007 wrote:
    uhm did you guys watch the film he is now completely off the pills due to the injection Hot doctor Rachel Weisz gave him... Sure I can't remember the character but no the pills are gone from the story.

    Maybe there shouldn't have been pills in the first place.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Risico007 wrote:
    uhm did you guys watch the film he is now completely off the pills due to the injection Hot doctor Rachel Weisz gave him... Sure I can't remember the character but no the pills are gone from the story.

    I don't remember that, because after noticing how terrible and lackluster the film was, I started to tune it all out with no plans of ever rewatching it.

    Cross gets injected by Weisz's character with live virus stems (from which the pills were made), you are correct. However, that virus, once injected makes the agent no longer dependent on the pills and instead gives them the enhanced physical and mental capabilities permanently. So, once again, Cross is not a natural survivor like Bourne, he is a boring, unremarkable and forgettable man who is given these skills by these stupid super drugs. He has all that Bourne has, but he hasn't worked for it, making him pretty uninteresting and dull.

    It reminds me of Metal Gear Solid IV, actually. Snake sees a world full of soldiers who have been unnaturally given the skills Snake harnessed himself in the field over years of service. That's what makes him more interesting and better than the soldiers, and why Bourne will always be more interesting than Cross.
  • Posts: 13,263
    The problem is the superdrugs. Not only to they dehumanize the character, but they are an unnecessary addition to the franchise that turns it into sci-fi.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    Ludovico wrote:
    The problem is the superdrugs. Not only to they dehumanize the character, but they are an unnecessary addition to the franchise that turns it into sci-fi.

    I agree. When that was revealed it lost the tone of the Bourne films that had been released previously.
  • Posts: 13,263
    Yes they jumped the shark/nuked the fridge on that one.
  • Posts: 7,645
    Ludovico wrote:
    The problem is the super drugs. Not only to they dehumanize the character, but they are an unnecessary addition to the franchise that turns it into sci-fi.

    It is not the only franchise that can be blamed for those moments. :!!

    And Bourne was according the movies some sort of super soldier as well. The Last Bourne movie chose to show us more of the program Bourne was actually part of. It is a bit bitchy complaining about that when the last 007 outing was not quite the example of logic.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    SaintMark wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    The problem is the super drugs. Not only to they dehumanize the character, but they are an unnecessary addition to the franchise that turns it into sci-fi.

    It is not the only franchise that can be blamed for those moments. :!!

    And Bourne was according the movies some sort of super soldier as well. The Last Bourne movie chose to show us more of the program Bourne was actually part of. It is a bit bitchy complaining about that when the last 007 outing was not quite the example of logic.

    How the hell do the Bourne films with Jason in them make him look like a super solider? He gets his arse handed to him many times and is even near collapse at the end of the second one. Did we watch the same films?

    As for the Skyfall jab, I continue to be blind to all these moments in the film that are empty of logic.
  • Posts: 13,263
    SaintMark wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    The problem is the super drugs. Not only to they dehumanize the character, but they are an unnecessary addition to the franchise that turns it into sci-fi.

    It is not the only franchise that can be blamed for those moments. :!!

    And Bourne was according the movies some sort of super soldier as well. The Last Bourne movie chose to show us more of the program Bourne was actually part of. It is a bit bitchy complaining about that when the last 007 outing was not quite the example of logic.

    whatever you think of SF is non sequitur to the current discussion. I don't fault the Bourne franchise logic but its retcon and inconsistency with what had previously been established. The chemical enhancement is deus ex machina and a retcon. It also belong to science fiction, NOT pseudo realistic spy fiction.
  • Posts: 7,645
    Ludovico wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    The problem is the super drugs. Not only to they dehumanize the character, but they are an unnecessary addition to the franchise that turns it into sci-fi.

    It is not the only franchise that can be blamed for those moments. :!!

    And Bourne was according the movies some sort of super soldier as well. The Last Bourne movie chose to show us more of the program Bourne was actually part of. It is a bit bitchy complaining about that when the last 007 outing was not quite the example of logic.

    whatever you think of SF is non sequitur to the current discussion. I don't fault the Bourne franchise logic but its retcon and inconsistency with what had previously been established. The chemical enhancement is deus ex machina and a retcon. It also belong to science fiction, NOT pseudo realistic spy fiction.

    That said it is well known that the various armies have looked into the creation of super soldier mostly through chemicals, as such they created quite a lot of enhancing drugs and even LSD in the process. If they found a better product I am not so sure that they would acknowledge them. Chemical enhancement is not so much a scifi property but more a reality.

    Just look at the perfection of the general athlete, the champions of 10 years ago would probably not qualify when competing with the champions of today. There is a upward going curve of ever improving human abilities.

    And as for SF, I took that as an example of how easy people dislike competing franchises for the same faults that take place in their own favorites. It is sometimes like folks wear blinders. That is all nothing bad about SF.
  • Posts: 908
    Ludovico wrote:
    The problem is the superdrugs. Not only to they dehumanize the character, but they are an unnecessary addition to the franchise that turns it into sci-fi.

    With science being what it is these days I gather that these kind of pills are closer to science fact than science-fiction. However I for myself find it terribly hard to sympathize with a guy that started out as a dumb head in the first place. Also doesn't make much sense to me that they use him for the program anyway. Why not start with a higher elevated platform in the first place ( just to make sure the guy doesn't start monkeying around during a mission as soon he runs out of his pills.)?
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 13,263
    Whatever those various armies are doing now that is well known yet secret is irrelevant. It belongs to sci to and it is retconning the original movies AND novels, where Bourne is highly trained and conditioned, but is not a drugged up zombie. And your example about SF is still non sequitur AND you can add straw man to it: I don't dislike the Bourne franchise, in fact it us because I like it that I consider the chemical enhancing drugs a shark jumping moment.
  • Posts: 7,645
    Ludovico wrote:
    Whatever those various armies are doing now that is well known yet secret is irrelevant. It belongs to sci to and it is retconning the original movies AND novels, where Bourne is highly trained and conditioned, but is not a drugged up zombie.

    Renners character did not feel like a doped up zombie either, I found his fight to retain his identity while being aware of his former self very sympathetic and could easily relate to it. Renners character was also a highly trained and conditioned even when he came up to a specimen of a new and more advanced project of "super soldiers".
  • Posts: 13,263
    Of course that was a metaphor. What I meant is that drugs were used in Legacy as a central element for his condition, something absent from the original trilogy. It still belongs to sci go, NOT pseudo realistic spy fiction.
  • Posts: 7,645
    Ludovico wrote:
    Of course that was a metaphor. What I meant is that drugs were used in Legacy as a central element for his condition, something absent from the original trilogy. It still belongs to sci go, NOT pseudo realistic spy fiction.

    Missing from the original trilogy does not mean anything, that was about some super soldier having lost his memories and trying to find out who he is and not liking what he is. In the end the clinic where they turned Bourne was not well used only to set up the Doctor but very little of the process through which Bourne was conditioned was shown. And the essence of the first trilogy was about finding Bournes' identity and he found out he did not like what he became.

    The new Bourne movie showed some more of the process and once again it was a fight about identity, with the enhancement came the knowledge that the old character was less and so the Renner fought for his new identity to keep it. Against a goverment deciding that the program should be terminated since they had a new one in place, one that was not compromised.
    I found the 4th Bourne doing something that extended the original movie series in a logic direction.

    But to be honest I prefer the original trilogy by Ludlum the most, and as such found Chamberlains tv series the best version of Ludlums books (yes I have them on dvd).

  • Posts: 13,263
    The chemicals is an unnecessary addition to the series. And I do enjoy the Chamberlain tv series too, with all its flaws. They should have used unused elements of Ludlum novels for the future, post Damon movies. Heck, have a new actor as Bourne, why not?
  • Posts: 7,645
    Ludovico wrote:
    The chemicals is an unnecessary addition to the series. And I do enjoy the Chamberlain tv series too, with all its flaws. They should have used unused elements of Ludlum novels for the future, post Damon movies. Heck, have a new actor as Bourne, why not?

    necessity for some aspects is just in the eye of the beholder, I found the Bourne 4 movie an enjoyable spy thriller and I would be game for number 5.

    Just like I am looking forward to the next installment of Mission Impossible.

    It is the next installment of 007 by the likes of Mendes that worries me far more, he took pretentiousness to an unnecessary level to me with SF.

    And yes the unused elements of Ludlums books would have been nice or even another Bourne. But I am pleased with what we got nonetheless.

  • Posts: 13,263
    Not some aspect, something at the core of the series, retconned to denature it. So this is not entirely subjective. You can appreciate the change, but then you have to accept that the franchise moved from spy thrillers to sci fi thrillers. And again, other franchises are utterly non sequitur to the topic.
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