Jason Bourne (2002 - present)

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Comments

  • edited August 2013 Posts: 12,490
    @Risico007 Don't watch them then. But it'd be your loss, as they're really good films. Legacy is crap compared to them.
    Risico007 wrote:
    I dislike Damon so would preffer to focus on Renner and his character of Aaron Cross

    Well thank God most people disagree with you because another Cross film would likely mean the end of the series judging by how badly Legacy did at the box office.

    I thought Legacy was a decent, enjoyable action flick but the first three films are on a whole other level.

    And since you haven't actually seen Damon as Bourne, you can't fairly judge if Renner as Cross is better or not (and for the record, I don't think he is and I think nearly everyone would agree with me).

    Bring back Damon or recast Bourne, get a better director and make it a stand alone adventure. They can base it on one of the continuation books if they're that short of ideas.

    But please no more ties to the original trilogy. That story is done now and if they want the character to survive for a further 10 years they need to prove that the series can do something different.
  • Posts: 7,650
    I think that the 007 franchise fares well with the strong competition of the Bourne & MI series because it means they have to up their game.

    The Craig era did borrow to much from the Bourne series. So all the negativity about the series is a bit daft as they actually did show EON a new direction.
    Both Cruise & Renner did decent last outings. The Bourne Legacy was still interesting enough imho to warrant an other movie, and the last MI installment was nothing but sheer excitement.

    Lets hope Mendes can up the ante for both competing franchises and leaves the personal stuff aside, that has been done so often in the last three movies that it gets kind of boring and shows little originality. I believe since TND we did not get an all out actioner without making anything personal.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited August 2013 Posts: 348
    FWIW, I prefer Legacy to the three previous (ludicrously overrated) films, and not just because of Renner.
  • Posts: 908
    Apart from the mishandled Story (which showed lots of promise in my opinion ) my main gripe about Legacy is with the leading Charakter. Not Renner,mind you, with whom I don't have too many issues (even though I still wait for a second Expression in his Face to be seen) but Cross. I find it terrible hard to root for someone who is a dumbhead without his medicine. I also don't see the Point in using someone like this apart from being more obedient and less asking when it comes to killing Innocents. But even then,wouldn't they take someone ruthless and clever to beginn with before pimping him up? Anyhow, I like my Heroes to be ruthless out of necessity and to be smart by nature, so I think Cross just doesn't make the cut by far.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    I find it terrible hard to root for someone who is a dumbhead without his medicine.

    Why? What have you got against those with a lower than average IQ?
  • Posts: 8,787
    in all honesty if Renner was the star of a MacGyver Movie we wouldn't be having this discussion because if they got rid of the guns in Bourne Legacy and chage some of the plot points Bourne Legacy could be a decent MacGyver.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    I find it terrible hard to root for someone who is a dumbhead without his medicine.

    Why? What have you got against those with a lower than average IQ?

    Don't start, he will just carry out his hatred again.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    MrBond wrote:
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    I find it terrible hard to root for someone who is a dumbhead without his medicine.

    Why? What have you got against those with a lower than average IQ?

    Don't start, he will just carry out his hatred again.

    Then Aaron Cross isn't the only one who needs to take his meds.
  • Posts: 908
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    I find it terrible hard to root for someone who is a dumbhead without his medicine.

    Why? What have you got against those with a lower than average IQ?

    Nothing at all. Hell, I even deal with them, if necessary. But still I wouldn't send them out when the stakes are high, since I believe in using the best tool or man possible for whatever task.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    I find it terrible hard to root for someone who is a dumbhead without his medicine.

    Why? What have you got against those with a lower than average IQ?

    Nothing at all. Hell, I even deal with them, if necessary. But still I wouldn't send them out when the stakes are high, since I believe in using the best tool or man possible for whatever task.

    Well, you said you "find it terrible [sic] hard to root for someone who is a dumbhead without hit medicine." That means you have trouble sympathising with someone who needs nootropics to function on the battlefield.

  • Posts: 908
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    I find it terrible hard to root for someone who is a dumbhead without his medicine.

    Why? What have you got against those with a lower than average IQ?

    Nothing at all. Hell, I even deal with them, if necessary. But still I wouldn't send them out when the stakes are high, since I believe in using the best tool or man possible for whatever task.

    Well, you said you "find it terrible [sic] hard to root for someone who is a dumbhead without hit medicine." That means you have trouble sympathising with someone who needs nootropics to function on the battlefield.

    Battlefields are beside the point. A good soldier shouldn't engage in thinking anyhow. That's exactly what makes him a good soldier and keeps him from asking questions, that might be hard to answer. But in a clandestine warfare of Intelligence Services you should expect more and especially some reasoning. If not you end up with a dumb killing machine. Should this be the kind of Guy you sympathize with, fine with me! I tend to be a lover of Secret Agents and I don't intend to change that just because of PC, Zeitgeist or whatever.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    But in a clandestine warfare of Intelligence Services you should expect more and especially some reasoning.

    Which is exactly what Aaron Cross demonstrates throughout the film, even if it doesn't come naturally.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 4,622
    I abhor Matt Damon. I think he's a pretentious little blowhard, especially after his assinine comments he made about Bond a few years ago.
    I really honestly and truly won't watch a Damon film anymore, unless under duress. Eg, I have no honest interest in watching Elysium, simply because Damon is in it. All of his films, the recent ones anyway, I find to be lame preachy affairs. He is so damn faux self-deprecating.
    Too bad about Elysium though, because I generally will lap up any big budget sci-fi, even those with obvious pretentions such as Prometheus, but Damon preaching is generally beyond the pale.
    He ruined the last two Bourne films IMO, which is why I like Legacy, because Damon wasn't in it; ie, it was a Bourne-like film, but minus Damon.
    Green Zone, btw I think is the most tiresome preachy Damon film ever made.
    So I can fully understand why @Risico007 and others, might want to stay clear of anything Damon.
    As a fellow Damon loather though, Bourne Identity I think is still worth watching, mainly because its a good take on the original Ludlum story. Damon can't ruin the Ludlum story and the character's mythology. Plus Greengras is not the director. Damon and Greengras are a lethal combo. They also did Green Zone.
    But yes, I would like to see more Bourne films, but the Bourne character does need to return, otherwise what is the point?. Bourne is a very interesting character.
    In the Bourne universe, he actually is the world's most accomplished and dangerous operative, and in so many different ways. Much potential here.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 35,160
    @timmer, I agree: 'Green Zone' was horrendously dull. Don't worry about 'Elysium,' you're only missing out on characters you couldn't care less about and choppy editing that renders all action sequences a complete mystery.

    I loathed 'Legacy' with a passion. Hated the film. I would love to go back and give it another watch, but when I think about how disappointing that joke of a CGI finale was, alongside the bad editing in the fight scenes, I just can't bring myself to it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,386
    I liked Green Zone. It wasn't anything earth-shatteringly brilliant, but neither are a lot of films that get marketed to us through advertisement saturation these days.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I loathe Greengrass and his socialist worker politics (I was particularly amused by that Q&A he did with Mendes a few months ago discussing Bond like he was a fan and fawning over SF after he slated the arse out of Bond when Ulitmatum came out) but that doesnt mean I cant divorce myself from the bloke in real life and enjoy the film.

    I dont get this preoccupation with hating a bloke so that automatically renders the film unwatchable.

    I think Laz is a legend and love the way he is the James Hunt of Bond actors but I would never dream of watching The Man From Hong Kong or his Emanuelle appearances for the very reason they look appalling. For all I know he gives oscar winning performances in them but that doesnt matter if the surrounding film is awful.
  • Posts: 908
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    But in a clandestine warfare of Intelligence Services you should expect more and especially some reasoning.

    Which is exactly what Aaron Cross demonstrates throughout the film, even if it doesn't come naturally.

    Yeah, that's exactly my point, but never mind. You know let's leave it at that. We don't seem to make any Progress and after all, these are MY preferences and love it or loathe it, but in literature, Movies as well as in real Life I'll continue to prefer intelligent people over dumb ones and the gifted over the mediocre. But that's just me, obviously.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 12,490
    I dont get this preoccupation with hating a bloke so that automatically renders the film unwatchable.

    Same here. I don't get why it's so hard for people to differentiate characters from their actors.

    Bruce Willis is apparently greedy, bored of action films and hard to work with, but I wouldn't refuse to watch any Die Hard film again because of it. Willis might be a dick, John Mcclane isn't.

    Tom Cruise is a scientologist that seems batshit mental but I still enjoy the Mission Impossible films and he was still brilliant in Tropic Thunder.

    And then there's Sean Connery who thinks it's fine to hit women and is also a big SNP supporter. Now I actually have no problem with Scottish independence, but he also happily accepted a knighthood and is living in the Bahamas as a tax exile.

    But despite this I doubt anyone on here thinks that Connery is a bad James Bond and I doubt anyone would refuse to watch his films again because of it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 35,160
    I can't count the amount of times I've heard people hate on Tom Cruise's films, having missed out on some of the excellent films he's done in the past many years because "he's a Scientologist."

    Who cares? I don't care about his beliefs, sexual orientation, race, hobbies, none of that. You cannot sit there and watch something like 'Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol,' and tell me that he does not kick some ass in that film, solely because he's a Scientologist. In what realm is that warranted or does it make sense?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    Exactly! That being said, Cruise was ridiculously badass as Vincent in Colaterral. Great movie.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 35,160
    doubleoego wrote:
    Exactly! That being said, Cruise was ridiculously badass as Vincent in Colaterral. Great movie.

    That just cannot be argued whatsoever. Cruise moving through a nightclub, popping bad guys, is just textbook cool. You cannot help but love when:
    He finally gets to the Chinese target, and he pops him in the chest, manages to reload, then put another round in his skull.

    Having said that, although I do find Damon to be incredibly pompous at times, I've still found myself enjoying a lot of his films.
  • Posts: 8,787
    OK OK OK you have all convinced me I will Check out the Bourne Identity.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 35,160
    Risico007 wrote:
    OK OK OK you have all convinced me I will Check out the Bourne Identity.

    That's the spirit. The movie is fantastic, though I must say, I sometimes tire of it from seeing it so many times.
  • Posts: 8,787
    though if I hate it or still love Legacy after viewing it I will be proud to say it here because then you can't fault me for my opinion.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 35,160
    Risico007 wrote:
    though if I hate it or still love Legacy after viewing it I will be proud to say it here because then you can't fault me for my opinion.

    How anyone prefers 'Legacy' to 'Identity' - or any of the Damon films, for that matter - is unbeknownst to me. But, that's just my opinion. Do let us know what you think.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Risico007 wrote:
    though if I hate it or still love Legacy after viewing it I will be proud to say it here because then you can't fault me for my opinion.

    That will be a different matter entirely. Then we will just ridicule you for preferring a bad film to a good one.
  • Posts: 13,314
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I can't count the amount of times I've heard people hate on Tom Cruise's films, having missed out on some of the excellent films he's done in the past many years because "he's a Scientologist."

    Who cares? I don't care about his beliefs, sexual orientation, race, hobbies, none of that. You cannot sit there and watch something like 'Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol,' and tell me that he does not kick some ass in that film, solely because he's a Scientologist. In what realm is that warranted or does it make sense?

    Off topic, but I loathe Tom Cruise because he is batsh*t crazy as a Scientologist. But he is a great actor, at least sometimes, and I love Eyes Wide Shut, in which he is excellent, partially because he forgets he is Tom Cruise.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    Is that the only reason ;)
  • Posts: 13,314
    doubleoego wrote:
    Is that the only reason ;)

    Well, that and he gets sexually humiliated every step of the way.;-) No but seriously, I find the movie fascinating and his character is, for a change, vulnerable and for all his wealth and good look is not master of his surroundings. He doesn't truly know his wife, he clumsily steps in a dangerous game that he does not know, etc. Dr. William Harford is the anti-Cruise.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited August 2013 Posts: 348
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    But in a clandestine warfare of Intelligence Services you should expect more and especially some reasoning.

    Which is exactly what Aaron Cross demonstrates throughout the film, even if it doesn't come naturally.

    Yeah, that's exactly my point, but never mind. You know let's leave it at that. We don't seem to make any Progress and after all, these are MY preferences and love it or loathe it, but in literature, Movies as well as in real Life I'll continue to prefer intelligent people over dumb ones and the gifted over the mediocre. But that's just me, obviously.

    Ayn Rand fan, by any chance?
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