Bond Movie A vs. Bond Movie B (Diamonds Are Forever vs. The World Is Not Enough)

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Comments

  • Posts: 501
    00Beast wrote:
    I don't even need to cast my vote, I mean everyone here knows there should already be one in for me, but I'll do it anyway! GOLDENEYE for the win!

    Even though the comparison is unnecessary (and I do like DAF a good bit), here are the things which GE has over DAF:

    -Better 007 (Pierce wins anyday against Connery)
    -Better Action (DAF lacks really great action, except for the elevator fight and the car chase)
    -Better Soundtrack (Yes, it is true; both are top notch, but I give the win to GE)
    -Better Villains (Trevelyan slaughters Charles Gray Blofeld, and his crew of Xenia, Ourumov, and Boris equally slaughter Wint and Kidd and the other numerous minor henchmen of DAF)
    -Better Main Girl (I hope I don't have to explain myself here)
    -Better Theme Song (It's true!)

    Connery at his worst is at least 10 times better than the best Brosnan.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    DAF is Connery's worst Bond (NSNA doesn't count), GE is Brosnan's 2nd or 3rd best effort! DAF has a better score but GE is less camp and goofy so vote goes to
    GoldenEye
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Also GE doesn't have an elephant winning at a slot machine :p
    0iker0 wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    I don't even need to cast my vote, I mean everyone here knows there should already be one in for me, but I'll do it anyway! GOLDENEYE for the win!

    Even though the comparison is unnecessary (and I do like DAF a good bit), here are the things which GE has over DAF:

    -Better 007 (Pierce wins anyday against Connery)
    -Better Action (DAF lacks really great action, except for the elevator fight and the car chase)
    -Better Soundtrack (Yes, it is true; both are top notch, but I give the win to GE)
    -Better Villains (Trevelyan slaughters Charles Gray Blofeld, and his crew of Xenia, Ourumov, and Boris equally slaughter Wint and Kidd and the other numerous minor henchmen of DAF)
    -Better Main Girl (I hope I don't have to explain myself here)
    -Better Theme Song (It's true!)

    Connery at his worst is at least 10 times better than the best Brosnan.

    Hmm I suppose I get what you mean BUT I'd argue Brosnan did pretty well with the "me too" and "I never miss" lines. Dare I say those small moments perhaps rival anything Connery did.

    Ok maybe thats exaggerating they were moments where I wasn't thinking of Connery, Moore etc but of Bond
  • Posts: 501
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Also GE doesn't have an elephant winning at a slot machine :p
    0iker0 wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    I don't even need to cast my vote, I mean everyone here knows there should already be one in for me, but I'll do it anyway! GOLDENEYE for the win!

    Even though the comparison is unnecessary (and I do like DAF a good bit), here are the things which GE has over DAF:

    -Better 007 (Pierce wins anyday against Connery)
    -Better Action (DAF lacks really great action, except for the elevator fight and the car chase)
    -Better Soundtrack (Yes, it is true; both are top notch, but I give the win to GE)
    -Better Villains (Trevelyan slaughters Charles Gray Blofeld, and his crew of Xenia, Ourumov, and Boris equally slaughter Wint and Kidd and the other numerous minor henchmen of DAF)
    -Better Main Girl (I hope I don't have to explain myself here)
    -Better Theme Song (It's true!)

    Connery at his worst is at least 10 times better than the best Brosnan.

    Hmm I suppose I get what you mean BUT I'd argue Brosnan did pretty well with the "me too" and "I never miss" lines. Dare I say those small moments perhaps rival anything Connery did.

    Ok maybe thats exaggerating they were moments where I wasn't thinking of Connery, Moore etc but of Bond
    I want to make clear that I did vote for GE.

    In DAD I wasn't thinking of Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton or even Brosnan himself, I was thinking of Bond. It's when I went out of the cinema that I saw that this film and the actors in it, specially Brosnan and Berry, were rubbish.

    In DAF Connery is not at his best, it's true, HOWEVER, Connery had some great moments where we could see some reminiscence of his greatest times and acting in FRWL.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    0iker0 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Also GE doesn't have an elephant winning at a slot machine :p
    0iker0 wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    I don't even need to cast my vote, I mean everyone here knows there should already be one in for me, but I'll do it anyway! GOLDENEYE for the win!

    Even though the comparison is unnecessary (and I do like DAF a good bit), here are the things which GE has over DAF:

    -Better 007 (Pierce wins anyday against Connery)
    -Better Action (DAF lacks really great action, except for the elevator fight and the car chase)
    -Better Soundtrack (Yes, it is true; both are top notch, but I give the win to GE)
    -Better Villains (Trevelyan slaughters Charles Gray Blofeld, and his crew of Xenia, Ourumov, and Boris equally slaughter Wint and Kidd and the other numerous minor henchmen of DAF)
    -Better Main Girl (I hope I don't have to explain myself here)
    -Better Theme Song (It's true!)

    Connery at his worst is at least 10 times better than the best Brosnan.

    Hmm I suppose I get what you mean BUT I'd argue Brosnan did pretty well with the "me too" and "I never miss" lines. Dare I say those small moments perhaps rival anything Connery did.

    Ok maybe thats exaggerating they were moments where I wasn't thinking of Connery, Moore etc but of Bond
    I want to make clear that I did vote for GE.

    In DAD I wasn't thinking of Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton or even Brosnan himself, I was thinking of Bond. It's when I went out of the cinema that I saw that this film and the actors in it, specially Brosnan and Berry, were rubbish.

    In DAF Connery is not at his best, it's true, HOWEVER, Connery had some great moments where we could see some reminiscence of his greatest times and acting in FRWL.

    Brosnan wasn't that bad in DAD He had his moments. Berry was though :-&
  • Posts: 501
    BAIN123 wrote:
    0iker0 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Also GE doesn't have an elephant winning at a slot machine :p
    0iker0 wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    I don't even need to cast my vote, I mean everyone here knows there should already be one in for me, but I'll do it anyway! GOLDENEYE for the win!

    Even though the comparison is unnecessary (and I do like DAF a good bit), here are the things which GE has over DAF:

    -Better 007 (Pierce wins anyday against Connery)
    -Better Action (DAF lacks really great action, except for the elevator fight and the car chase)
    -Better Soundtrack (Yes, it is true; both are top notch, but I give the win to GE)
    -Better Villains (Trevelyan slaughters Charles Gray Blofeld, and his crew of Xenia, Ourumov, and Boris equally slaughter Wint and Kidd and the other numerous minor henchmen of DAF)
    -Better Main Girl (I hope I don't have to explain myself here)
    -Better Theme Song (It's true!)

    Connery at his worst is at least 10 times better than the best Brosnan.

    Hmm I suppose I get what you mean BUT I'd argue Brosnan did pretty well with the "me too" and "I never miss" lines. Dare I say those small moments perhaps rival anything Connery did.

    Ok maybe thats exaggerating they were moments where I wasn't thinking of Connery, Moore etc but of Bond
    I want to make clear that I did vote for GE.

    In DAD I wasn't thinking of Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton or even Brosnan himself, I was thinking of Bond. It's when I went out of the cinema that I saw that this film and the actors in it, specially Brosnan and Berry, were rubbish.

    In DAF Connery is not at his best, it's true, HOWEVER, Connery had some great moments where we could see some reminiscence of his greatest times and acting in FRWL.

    Brosnan wasn't that bad in DAD He had his moments. Berry was though :-&

    He was all right in the PTS, the rest was rubbish.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    Goldeneye Hands down if it had been Orchestrated by John Barry it would have been
    The Perfect Bond Film

    Diamonds only had four things good about it: The PTS, Mr Wint and Kidd and The John Barry track "Bond meets Bambi and Thumper" with the organ version of The Bond theme and Connery despite what people say his bond was affected by Tracey's death but in a very subtle way- when Moneypenny gives him the line about the diamond ring (you can see him pausing almost hurt looking and he had a rage in the PTS) apart from that sadly the film was terrible
  • Posts: 11,425
    crud versus utter crud.

    i'll vote for DAF just because it's got sean in it.
  • Posts: 418
    FRWL has everything, a classic Bond film, but I love TB too - especially any scenes that include the gorgeous Fiona Volpe..
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Zorin61 wrote:
    FRWL has everything, a classic Bond film, but I love TB too - especially any scenes that include the gorgeous Fiona Volpe..

    Um... are you voting for FRWL? Because that's not one of the films at hand right now.
  • Posts: 418
    Zorin61 wrote:
    FRWL has everything, a classic Bond film, but I love TB too - especially any scenes that include the gorgeous Fiona Volpe..

    Um... are you voting for FRWL? Because that's not one of the films at hand right now.

    Sorry, I was just making a comment on two of my favourite Bond movies..

    Of the choice, i'll go for 'Goldeneye'..
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    GoldenEye

    It's one of the better Bond films to date!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Zorin61 wrote:
    FRWL has everything, a classic Bond film, but I love TB too - especially any scenes that include the gorgeous Fiona Volpe..
    Well, in that case, I vote for CR!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    As drab as it is, I would take GE over DAF.
  • Posts: 562
    GoldenEye
  • Posts: 1,497
    DAF hands down.

    That's like comparing The Beatles "Let it Be" to one of Paul McCartney's 1990's solo records.
  • Posts: 4,762
    0iker0 wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    I don't even need to cast my vote, I mean everyone here knows there should already be one in for me, but I'll do it anyway! GOLDENEYE for the win!

    Even though the comparison is unnecessary (and I do like DAF a good bit), here are the things which GE has over DAF:

    -Better 007 (Pierce wins anyday against Connery)
    -Better Action (DAF lacks really great action, except for the elevator fight and the car chase)
    -Better Soundtrack (Yes, it is true; both are top notch, but I give the win to GE)
    -Better Villains (Trevelyan slaughters Charles Gray Blofeld, and his crew of Xenia, Ourumov, and Boris equally slaughter Wint and Kidd and the other numerous minor henchmen of DAF)
    -Better Main Girl (I hope I don't have to explain myself here)
    -Better Theme Song (It's true!)

    Connery at his worst is at least 10 times better than the best Brosnan.

    Never! Not that I dislike Connery by any means, but Brosnan wipes the floor with Connery, it is just a proven fact! Brosnan IS James Bond, I mean just look at him, it is undeniable. His raw swagger and cool, deadly authority mixed with a chill attitude makes him the winner of this contest.
  • Posts: 501
    00Beast wrote:
    0iker0 wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    I don't even need to cast my vote, I mean everyone here knows there should already be one in for me, but I'll do it anyway! GOLDENEYE for the win!

    Even though the comparison is unnecessary (and I do like DAF a good bit), here are the things which GE has over DAF:

    -Better 007 (Pierce wins anyday against Connery)
    -Better Action (DAF lacks really great action, except for the elevator fight and the car chase)
    -Better Soundtrack (Yes, it is true; both are top notch, but I give the win to GE)
    -Better Villains (Trevelyan slaughters Charles Gray Blofeld, and his crew of Xenia, Ourumov, and Boris equally slaughter Wint and Kidd and the other numerous minor henchmen of DAF)
    -Better Main Girl (I hope I don't have to explain myself here)
    -Better Theme Song (It's true!)

    Connery at his worst is at least 10 times better than the best Brosnan.

    Never! Not that I dislike Connery by any means, but Brosnan wipes the floor with Connery, it is just a proven fact! Brosnan IS James Bond, I mean just look at him, it is undeniable. His raw swagger and cool, deadly authority mixed with a chill attitude makes him the winner of this contest.

    I couldn't agree less. Brosnan is now considered as the ultimate Bond because his Bond just finished ten years ago, or two films ago, and not everybody on the streets has seen Connery's, Lazenby's, Moore's or Dalton's.

    I consider Brosnan as one of the worst Bonds, only saved by his first and third films, which are great, specially the first one. That doesn't make him a good actor. It's like saying that as Missing in Action was acceptable, and even fun to watch, Chuck Norris is a good actor. (I hope he doesn't read this and kill me).
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    not everybody on the streets has seen Connery's, Lazenby's, Moore's or Dalton's.

    I'd have thought the majority have seen at least Connery's and Moore's.

    As I said on another thread Brosnan is probably the third most popular Bond behind Connery and Craig at the moment (Moore seems to divide people more due to his "lighter" approach). Only yesterday I was in Waterloo station and saw a magazine with his face on the front cover in a Bond stance. He was one of four possible covers for that week, the other three were Connery, Moore and Craig (the article inside referred to them as "four of the best Bonds"). Lazenby and Dalton were no where to be seen.
  • Posts: 501
    BAIN123 wrote:
    not everybody on the streets has seen Connery's, Lazenby's, Moore's or Dalton's.

    I'd have thought the majority have seen at least Connery's and Moore's.

    As I said on another thread Brosnan is probably the third most popular Bond behind Connery and Craig at the moment (Moore seems to divide people more due to his "lighter" approach). Only yesterday I was in Waterloo station and saw a magazine with his face on the front cover in a Bond stance. He was one of four possible covers for that week, the other three were Connery, Moore and Craig (the article inside referred to them as "four of the best Bonds"). Lazenby and Dalton were no where to be seen.

    And that's the problem they haven't seen every Bond's strengths and weaknesses.
    For me the rank's clear:
    1) Connery/Moore (I've always believed that they were both sides of a coin and that we wouldn't appreciate one so much without the other.)
    2) Craig (I like his human and ruthless Bond)
    3) Lazenby (the most underrated one, he would be in second position if he had done more flicks so that we could see the revenge side of him in DAF)
    4) Brosnan (he was good in his odd films, GE TWINE, but not that good in the even, TND DAD)
    5) Dalton (he was one of the best actors to play Bond, but was the worst Bond, specially in LTK, in which he plays more a Die Hard kind of character than Bond. TLD wasn't that bad, it's actually very fun to watch)
  • Posts: 11,189
    0iker0 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    not everybody on the streets has seen Connery's, Lazenby's, Moore's or Dalton's.

    I'd have thought the majority have seen at least Connery's and Moore's.

    As I said on another thread Brosnan is probably the third most popular Bond behind Connery and Craig at the moment (Moore seems to divide people more due to his "lighter" approach). Only yesterday I was in Waterloo station and saw a magazine with his face on the front cover in a Bond stance. He was one of four possible covers for that week, the other three were Connery, Moore and Craig (the article inside referred to them as "four of the best Bonds"). Lazenby and Dalton were no where to be seen.

    And that's the problem they haven't seen every Bond's strengths and weaknesses.
    For me the rank's clear:
    5) Dalton (he was one of the best actors to play Bond, but was the worst Bond, specially in LTK, in which he plays more a Die Hard kind of character than Bond. TLD wasn't that bad, it's actually very fun to watch)

    Ouch! Quite a controversial feeling to have around here. I've always had rather mixed feelings about Dalton myself. I can see what he's trying to do and admire him for it but there's just something he doesn't have.

    Anyway, this is meant to be about GE and DAF.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Watched a bit of LTK the other day. Have always had very mixed feelings about it. Despite being a big Dalts fan it is not my favourite film. For me it sits awkwardly in the series. I think it was the first Bond that struck an off key for me in the series. Of course it's still infinitely better than the next four entries, but for me it represents the start of things going slightly wrong. The big shame for me as a Dalts fan is that it is obvious from interviews that Tim was not that happy about the direction they'd taken with LTK either. Unlike DC, Dalton had little say on the direction the films took. Like his predecessors he basically turned up, was given the script and was expected to get on with it. He was much happier with the more old school approach of TLD (basically a classic Moore Bond). Dalt's third outing would have been a return to the established formula with more laughs and a general lightness of tone.

    That said, the fact that a lot of the creative talent behind the films was dispersed by the time of GE means there is no guarantee that a Dalts GE would have been significantly better than the mess it turned out to be.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I for one am not entirely certain Dalton had quite the right connection with audiences. The fact that outside of Bond he was rarely seen on the screen during his run - except in supporting roles in fairly mediocre films - does sort of suggest this. While I'm sure GE with Dalton would have done fairly well I don't think it would have been as successful as it was. One thing Brosnan did have that Dalton didn't was swagger, that's a fairly big thing people expect in their screen Bond.

    Plus Dalton was never that great with the quips ("looks like he came to a dead end"). He'd probably be the first to admit that too. So I can't really see him going for a "Moore approach"

    That's not to say Dalton didnt deserve a third film. He did. And I feel sorry for him that he never got to complete his three film contract. But I'm just not sure he had what it took to charm audiences in the way his predecessors (and successors) did.

    I even remember him saying in an itv documentary on Bond during the mid 90s- albeit in a jokey manner - that:

    "Half the world likes Sean Connery, half the world likes Roger Moore and they all hate me".
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,886
    I've never been a huge fan of GoldenEye, but over the years I have warmed to it more. Too much like a made for tv movie for me, with some sloppy production values, and poor editing at times. The acting's not fantastic either, but it wins this round hands down against 'Carry On Bond'...sorry Diamonds Are Forever.
    I enjoy DAF when I watch it, it has a witty script and is easy viewing, but as a Bond film it ranks the lowest of the low for me. Yet another Guy Hamilton let down.
    GE wins.
  • Posts: 501
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I for one am not entirely certain Dalton had quite the right connection with audiences. The fact that outside of Bond he was rarely seen on the screen during his run - except in supporting roles in fairly mediocre films - does sort of suggest this. While I'm sure GE with Dalton would have done fairly well I don't think it would have been as successful as it was. One thing Brosnan did have that Dalton didn't was swagger, that's a fairly big thing people expect in their screen Bond.

    Plus Dalton was never that great with the quips ("looks like he came to a dead end"). He'd probably be the first to admit that too. So I can't really see him going for a "Moore approach"

    That's not to say Dalton didnt deserve a third film. He did. And I feel sorry for him that he never got to complete his three film contract. But I'm just not sure he had what it took to charm audiences in the way his predecessors (and successors) did.

    I even remember him saying in an itv documentary on Bond during the mid 90s- albeit in a jokey manner - that:

    "Half the world likes Sean Connery, half the world likes Roger Moore and they all hate me".
    It's not that I hate him. I think he's an incredibly underrated actor. BUT, he is not the right person for Bond. And maybe he didn't do the right films...

    He did deserve a third film, but still I don't know if he could do the right thing with the role.
  • Daltons third film would've been more like TLD than LTK. Even though I prefer LTK (really close call but LTK just feels fresher and I love it more), I think after that a lighter film was needed, and I think Dalton knew that too.

    Dalton never seemed unpopular to me. I was pretty young but I remember the audience cheering at parts of TLD. I think some people thought LTK was too dark and that reflected badly on Dalton.
  • EiragornEiragorn Hessia
    Posts: 108
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I for one am not entirely certain Dalton had quite the right connection with audiences. The fact that outside of Bond he was rarely seen on the screen during his run - except in supporting roles in fairly mediocre films - does sort of suggest this. While I'm sure GE with Dalton would have done fairly well I don't think it would have been as successful as it was. One thing Brosnan did have that Dalton didn't was swagger, that's a fairly big thing people expect in their screen Bond.

    Well, after I recently watched both films in a row I came to the conclusion that we connect the movies too much with the respective Bonds. When you watch DAF it's so much closer to the "typical" Moore film than LALD and MWTGG. The same goes for TLD which is also closer to Moore then what we connect Dalton with. So it's quite easy to blame the actors but in fact the series would have taken the exactly same direction with or without a certain actor. And I hope we all agree on the fact that the Bond of Dalt had much more in common with Ian Fleming's creation than Moore or Brozza had.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Daltons third film would've been more like TLD than LTK. Even though I prefer LTK (really close call but LTK just feels fresher and I love it more), I think after that a lighter film was needed, and I think Dalton knew that too.

    Dalton never seemed unpopular to me. I was pretty young but I remember the audience cheering at parts of TLD. I think some people thought LTK was too dark and that reflected badly on Dalton.

    Exactly. TLD was a solid enjoyable entry and well received. LTK was a bit odd and with the 15 certificate it meant a whole younger age group missed out on seeing it. The tone of LTK, which was not of Daltons own making, meant that Tim was then seen as the 'dark' Bond, when he himself wanted a lighter tone. Because he never got to make another he got labeled with that dark reputation. However, TLD is one of my top 5 and amply demonstrates that Dalts could deliver classic Bond with a menacing twist. Really TLD is not a million miles from the better Moore films.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Dalton has more than hinted in interviews that he was never a massive fan of Roger's Bond so I can't see him wanting to go down that road of a "lighter" 007.

    With LTK I get the feeling everybody concerned (including Dalton) tried a bit too hard to be dark and "brooding". Watching LTK he pretty much scowls his way through the entire film and looks a bit uncomfortable in some of the lighter scenes (i.e. the Q scene in the hotel). That ultimately, as @thelivingroyale said, reflected badly on the bloke.
  • I think the Q scenes in LTK are one of the films highlights. Showed Dalton could do humour, I love the bit where he says "I hope you don't snore Q"
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